“My trial is not an isolated incident.” (link fixed)
All over Europe the elites are acting as the protectors of an ideology that has been bent on destroying us since fourteen centuries. An ideology that has sprung from the desert and that can produce only deserts because it does not give people freedom. The Islamic Mozart, the Islamic Gerard Reve [a Dutch author], the Islamic Bill Gates; they do not exist because without freedom there is no creativity. The ideology of Islam is especially noted for killing and oppression and can only produce societies that are backward and impoverished. Surprisingly, the elites do not want to hear any criticism of this ideology.
Error 404, Kate.
The correct URL is- http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/02/geert-wilders-speech-in-amsterdam-court-todaythe-lights-are-going-out-all-over-europe.html
or tinyURL-
http://tinyurl.com/4qm2c33344
// an ideology that has been bent on destroying us since fourteen centuries //
No sense taking anything he says literally after that.
Dave, no joy on the tiny url although the longer link is good. New one.
http://tinyurl.com/4qm2c33
Yes, ditzy, we know you and your type know nothing about history.
Quit trolling DIZZY!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is MSM spin, no? “Cannon” did not really say it.
Just don’t take “it” literally.
…-
“Cannon welcomes Egypt talks with Muslim Brotherhood”
“Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon said Sunday that he is pleased to see that the Egyptian government is negotiating with the North African country’s largest opposition group.”
(googlenews)
The Moslem Murder Cult is winning the war in Canada. Read your school’s curriculum in social studies. If you don’t demand an end to Official Multiculturalism and all its funding you deserve what you get. The lesson from Wilders is speak up now while you still can.
From the link comments: “God bless Geert Wilders.I wish he’d move to Hawaii and obtain a Certificate of Live Birth.”
Wilders is wrong with respect to history. Whatever the case with intolerance today, the Islamic empires of 1000 years ago were the centres of religious freedom in the world. It is no accident that large portions of the Jewish populations of the day fled to Moorish Spain in the 10th and 11th centuries. That tolerance was a large part of the reason that the Moslem world was the centre of mathematics and science for at least 700 years (ca. 900-1600 AD). The numeric system we use today as the basis of arithmetic and mathematics, including the invention of zero, was the result of Moslem mathematicians.
To claim that it has always been ignorant, harsh and repressive is simply wrong. Just to cite one example, in the 6th century, the Persian Emperor Khusrau III introduced what was at the time the most enlightened and just tax code that had ever existed. After they conquered the Persian Empire early in the 7th Century, the Moslem rulers adopted it universally. It illustrates a flexibility of thinking then and willingness to adopt from others which is clearly not a part of radical Islam today.
“…can only produce societies that are backward and impoverished…”
Utter drivel. For those same seven centuries, the Islamic world was by far the most economically prosperous and technically advanced. And its wealth was distributed far more widely than the pestilent, impoverished, eternally squabbling feudalisms of Western Europe. What is more, essentially every Christian chronicler of the day acknowledged these facts. So what Geert is trying to do here is persuade everyone that every single Mediaeval commentator on the Islamic world was dead wrong.
What is important is that Islam appears to have lost that tolerance over recent centuries. But understanding the situation that prevails today is not helped by deliberate misreading of history.
Evil comes to you as a friend, because if it came as an enemy, you would fight it.
So it is with the leftoid apologists. They speak as though the Milk of Human Kindness ran in their veins, where in fact is is untreated sewage that flows through them. This Islam garbage is bad. Very bad.
“The numeric system we use today as the basis of arithmetic and mathematics, including the invention of zero, was the result of Moslem mathematicians.”
Sorry to burst your bubble but the modern concept of zero came out of India – (hint – think Hindu). BTW – the Mayans developed the concept independently.
The numeric system we use today as the basis of arithmetic and mathematics, including the invention of zero, was the result of Moslem mathematicians.
Balderdash.
Will the above lie never die?
The zero and decimal systems were invented in India 300 years before the Prophet Mohamed was born.
The Christian Assyrians already had dome architecture.
Islam merely conquered those people and appropriated their inventions as their own.
Muslims sought to wipe out their entire cultures through genocide.
Islam had no religious tolerance.
It was spread by the sword.
John it was introduced into Europe out of Moslem Spain. It was incorporated into the decimal numeric system by Islamic mathematicians, which was not in use in India at that time.
“It was spread by the sword.”
Every religion was spread by the sword.
So what else is new?
// Yes, ditzy, we know you and your type know nothing about history. //
Well Louise, I am always pleased to take up an invitation to learn history.
Shall we start with an essay on Islamic culture?
The Culture of Translation
It was written by María Rosa Menocal, author of
The Ornament of the World: How Muslims, Christians and Jews Created a Culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain
CGH nice try at revisionist history. The Moslem religion has been spread by the sword from its very inception. And the Murders continue to this day. Murder and Mayhem 24/7/365 somebody somewhere is being bombed, beheaded, stoned, whipped, and butchered 24/7/365. Day after day week after week year after year. Wake up and quit apologizing for the butchers.
“The numeric system we use today as the basis of arithmetic and mathematics, including the invention of zero, was the result of Moslem mathematicians.”
Not entirely true, and even if it was, big deal.
Here if you have a strong stomach you can watch a 12 year old Moslem Doing his first actual beheading. Actual live photos from Moslem Jihadi Sites. http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/12-year-old-taliban-boys-first-beheading-warning-extremely-graphic-images/
A few of you have been claiming that the zero was “invented” by the moslems, and hindus. I think you are wrong, and I am pretty sure that the concept of zero was “discovered” and worked with by the Japanese. Europeans took it back with them from the orient and it spread to be included in the teaching of mathematics from there. Never heard of any independant discoveries by central Americans, but it may be true.
cgh isn’t entirely wrong. The Muslim world led in medicine for a great many years, incorporating information from Greek, Persian, and Indian sources as well as Chinese and producing their own advances on top of that foundation. Medical literature in Europe was advanced by certain Muslim influences and great physicians.
That being said we threw off religious persecution of scientists hundreds of years ago, and western medicine is one of the greatest contributions to the world because that happened. They need to do that.
Wilders Speech Warning To America. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdX1qpCtlh8&feature=player_embedded End all mass immigration from all Moslem Countries.
“John it was introduced into Europe out of Moslem Spain. It was incorporated into the decimal numeric system by Islamic mathematicians, which was not in use in India at that time.”
OK – let’s see:
“In 498 AD, Indian mathematician and astronomer Aryabhata stated that “Sthanam sthanam dasa gunam” or place to place in ten times in value, which is the origin of the modern decimal-based place value notation”
“The oldest known text to use a decimal place-value system, including a zero, is the Jain text from India entitled the Lokavibhâga, dated 458 AD.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_%28number%29#History
“Arab merchants brought the zero they found in India to the West.”
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-is-the-origin-of-zer
There are plenty of other on-line resources if you wish to educate yourself.
This article provides a nice summary and plenty of references.
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/4107
The Big Cee – see the above article – it has some good references to Mayan mathematics. Unfortunately it never influenced modern mathematics due to the isolation of the Americas in Pre-Colombian times.
What distinguishes islam from other religions is that islam considers itself to be the only true religion and anyone who doesn’t convert to islam is subhuman. There’s only way to deal with a conflict like that and it’s not through dialog.
Genocide was an islamic invention and AH was quite correct when he stated that no-one remembers about the Armenians. I often get blank looks when I bring up the topic of Armenians in WWI.
Islam is not monolithic and the recent upsurge in fundamentalist islam is as a result of Saudi money attempting to spread Wahabism throughout the world. The best thing to do to stop this is to massively increase offshore oil exploration in Canada and the US as well as expand the oil sands to cut off the flow of capital to the Saudi’s.
Iranians, in my experience, tend to be the least attached to radical islam although maybe the ones I’ve met are so as a result of leaving Iran for Canada.
Islam needs to be exposed for the totalitarian death cult that it represents and that means also destroying Canadian HRC’s which inhibit people from speaking out. All immigration from islamic countries should be stopped and mosque building prohibited. Europeans should learn how to breed again to deal with the potential demographic threat of islam when it really will become Eurabia.
It’s kinda funny that you should mention The Culture of Translation (10:24), Dizzy. In your 8:46 pm comment you mocked Wilders’ literacy (“no sense taking anything he says literally after that“) even though the statement you attribute to him (“bent on destroying us since fourteen centuries”) was – obviously, I would think – someone’s *translation* of testimony Wilders delivered in the Dutch language, in a Dutch court.
‘elites’ bla bla bla.
uhuh. and how many of the past 50 centuries have the ‘elites’ been the ones with the money and power? hmmm? conservatives maybe? the ones that by their very name want nothing to change that’s who.
I wasn’t mocking his “literacy” he speaks good English, [he may well have vetted the translation].
I’m saying that his remark is literally false. If he expects it to be believed, he is lying.
Which of the two possible interpretations of the mistranslation do you consider to be “his” remark, dizzy? I don’t speak Dutch. The mistranslated phrase “since fourteen centuries” could mean “over the last fourteen centuries” or “since the fourteenth century.”
Neither statement is “literally false.” Muhammad was born in 571 AD – i.e about fourteen centuries ago – so if that’s what he was saying his point might be contentious, and arguably false, but it’s not “literally” false. And if he was saying “since the fourteenth century”, that would be an historical interpretation, and – again – not “literally false.”
“by nature, Islamic civilization must either subsume or be subsumed”
In fact Islam is already subsumed by the West. Islam is subsumed as a subset of archaic barbaric beliefs and practices long abandoned by the West and labelled ‘history’.
Since Islamic culture is nothing other than an impoverished subset of Judeo-Christian culture, it cannot add anything to ours, it can only subtract and destroy.
Every aspect of present-day Muslim culture that appears to be different from our own is in fact already contained within our culture, though buried in the archives.
So all those primitive aspects such as tribalism, theocracy, punishment by amputations, repression of women, honor killings, blasphemy laws etc are quite familiar to us – but we’ve been there and done that and rejected it all centuries ago.
As with adolescent vandals, those who lack creativity can only express themselves by destruction, and Muslims are very good at destroying the products of other civilisations (known as ‘Jahiliyya’) .
If you look carefully at the process of Islamization of Europe, you’ll see that nothing is being added (apart from babies and mosques), but much is being taken away. Almost every Muslim demand is culturally ‘subtractive’ rather than ‘additive’. They want to remove pig statues, ban alcohol, curb free speech, and stop teaching art, music, drama, biology and other ‘un-Islamic’ subjects in schools.
The mere presence of Jihadists in the West reduces the quality of life, with security restrictions on travel, and kaffir women and children in Jihadist-infested cities unable to move and play freely for fear of sexual predators.
In contrast to the subtractive impacts of Jihadism on Western civilisation, Islamic clerics in in Dar al-Islam are paranoid about the addition of aspects of Western culture such as fashion, music, toys, cinema, art, science etc to their own, which they refer to as ‘Westoxication’.
So, no matter what the multiculturalists tell us, Islam cannot bring ‘cultural enrichment’ to the West – it can only bring cultural impoverishment.
To say that Jihadist immigrants are worthless is to overvalue them. In fact they have a negative cultural worth, because their attempts to Islamify the West are an attempt to reduce the rich culture of a superior civilisation to a backward, depleted, restricted and primitive subset.
Although some foreign cultures are ‘enriching’ and bring new artforms etc, Islam is culturally impoverishing. All it can do is take away our liberty and restrict our freedom of expression.
Islam is medieval. We’ve been there, done that, rejected all that theocratic crap, then progressed through the Renaissance and Enlightenment and left Islam in the dust.
http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/multiculturalism-does-islam-bring.html
“Surprisingly, the elites do not want to hear any criticism of this ideology.”
Indeed. This because a good many of them are totalitarians at heart.
Only one correction to Wilders’ speech though. Man did not create freedom; God did. That’s why certain rights are inalienable and cannot be bestowed or removed by human government.
Aren’t mathematical arguments irrelevant? The left believes that math can be learned intuitively. Even if Muslims did contribute zero, the left believes they all would have done the same.
“It was spread by the sword.”
Every religion was spread by the sword.
So what else is new?
Posted by: cgh at February 7, 2011 10:23 PM ”
LOL !!!
ah jeez cg, yer in trouble now. hint: conservatist = xian fundamentalist.
the 2 edged sword I use often against said bunch is their hypocrisy.
One can quibble about Wilders’ command of history but I’m just as puzzled as he is about the reasons why discussion about the Islamization of Europe is repressed and by whom. Elites doesn’t seem to cover it. These acts are the result of governments who have more or less been elected. Are the HRC’s in this country representative of the “elites”? Is he referring to the intellectually and socially blind–those who suppose that a utopian state can be created through repression?
He is a brave man. When he first started on this road, he was definitely one of the very few who dared speak out. Now, I think he might be riding the wave of popular discontent with the growing concern over multiculturalism. We’ll see how things turn out for him.
cgh, you’re doing that revisionist thing again. The “Arabic” numeral system was invented in India around 500 AD (about 200 years before Mohammed). The Persians who had a thriving mathematics culture prior to being conquered by the Arabs, started using these numbers after the conquest of India by the Moslems. If you assert that without India and Persia being conquered by the Moslems the use of Indian numerals may not have occured, then I’ll accept that…but unfortunately, after the Islamic conquest, not much in the way of useful knowledge came out of Persia, Greece, Egypt and India (note that these countries were at the forefront of learning in the Ancient world). What could have made that quest for knowledge disappear for hundreds of years? The common denominator is Islam–and yes, Greece was conquered by the Turks in 1460 AD and only escaped the orbit of Islam in the late 1800s.
Okay, let’s assume they invented zero. Can you imagine an intellectual advance of similar significance taking place in that culture now?
The era that Muslims consider their “Enlightened years” was no less violent than they are today, of course the useful idiots blather on and on that during that time Muslim societies’ prospered well dah they looted plundered and basically tried to wipe out entire populations of non-Muslims. Any advances that Islam claims as theirs was stolen from other cultures.
This country needs and organization much like the English Defense League. We can’t trust our governments to stand up for our superior way of life. Is it written somewhere that we must accept immigrants from backward societies? Are we not allowed to choose between the ever troublesome Muslims and the rest of the world?
Every religion was spread by the sword.
So what else is new?
Posted by: cgh
Buddhism was spread by the sword!
I did not know that.
Accepting individuals from backwards societies should not be a detractor in a potential immigrant; their desire to leave the backward society and all its baggage behind and to their desire to embrace Canada’s societal values should be. And a corollary is that they can actually support themselves by having a useful trade or skill.
Let’s give them zero. Muslim culture does offer nothing to the rest of the world to this day. Whether they invented the concept or not, they have certainly perfected it. Their tolerance of other cultures and ideas is zero. Survival rates of infidels would also be zero under Sharia law. Whether it’s Mark Steyn or Geert Wilders, we need to heed the warning about Islam and their aspirations for a global caliphate. They are known for having zero tolerance, and we need to recognize that soon.
EBD [a bit late with this]
// an ideology that has been bent on destroying us since fourteen centuries //
means for 14 centuries. Typical german-dutch usage “I am married since 10 years”
In fact, that is how it is translated in the Gates of Vienna blog.
Most of his speech is not literally true.
Like that choice bit of WWI rhetoric “The lights are going out …” repeated as if he was in some tent-meeting instead of a court of law.
But that remark isn’t simply not literally true, it is literally false. Like his US-made claim that “The Dutch are a minority already” in the Netherlands.
Dizzy: “The lights are going out” is a widely used metaphor and is not to be taken literally any more than the phrase “my jaw dropped to the floor” is to be taken literally. When he says the lights are going out he was referring to the values of tolerance (equal rights for women, gays, dhimmis, etc) and free speech. I don’t think anyone other than you took his statement in the literal sense, i.e. that light-bulbs – incandescent, flourescent, and twisty – are being shut off because of Muslims’ intolerance of opposing views.
As for the “for fourteen centuries”, it’s – again – not *literally* false. Muhammad – who was born over fourteen centuries ago, preached about finding and killing non-believers wherever they could be found. Can you please explain what is literally false – as opposed to merely contentious – about Wilders’ statement?
I’m confused. Are you saying that it’s “literally false” that Muhammad was born over fourteen centuries ago? That it’s literally false that he prescribed death for non-believers?
Please provide an example of what is “literally false” – i.e. is factually incorrect, and not merely a matter of opinion – in Wilders’ testimony. I’m trying to understand.