“… when I saw a letter from the Wayne Pacelle, president and CEO of the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), criticizing Dave Henderson’s column regarding Pacelle’s recent comments that Michael Vick would be a good dog owner today. Is it possible a $50,000 donation from the Philadelphia Eagles may have changed Pacelle’s mind?”
Related – “Of Dogs and Men: How the Tucker Carlson / Michael Vick Flap Reveals the Left’s Moral Degeneracy”
Man genetically manipulated some animals to provide food, some to provide labour, and some to provide entertainment. To argue that pit bulls are of any social value, other than attack dogs, and fighting dogs, is immature. If people think pit bulls should not be allowed to fight, then the breed should be allowed to expire.
I find it ironic that some people rant and rave about PETA, and comment that cows would become extinct if no one ate beef, then turn around and insist that pit bulls, et al should be converted to family pets. Without some sort of purpose, they have no place on this earth. Of course, the same can be said for Michael Vick, Chuck Liddell, Floyd Mayweather, and so on.
let me be the first to side with Kate on this one. She being a dog owner and same as me.
vick should have done 2 years in prison.
Now, now….
This man- this spoiled yet grown man- is just a product of centuries of slavery. That is why he abused dogs. A liberal said as much so it must be true.
Coach:
You are entitled to your opinion, even though I happen to disagree.
Your comment appears to infer that “entertainment” includes dog fighting.
My question: Have you ever witnessed a staged dog fight, or witnessed the carnage ensuing from that activity?
I am thinking that you have not…and hope that you don’t. I have not seen the former, but have seen the latter.
Gratuitous cruelty of any animal is, in my mind, completely unacceptable for any human who has thinking abilities.
And yes, I am an owner of a much beloved golden retriever…none of my dogs have ever been hit or otherwise physically disciplined…smart people know how to properly train dogs without physical violence.
Bruce- A golden retriever is a different animal than a pit bull. I have nothing against well behaved dogs, but you can no more allow a pit bull near your kids, than you can a wolverine. Lots of people try, and lots of kids die, every year.
You certainly wouldn’t let Michael Vick near your kids, either. We put up with all kinds of bad behaviour from professional athletes, because they entertain us. We enjoy watching them endure pain, so we can pretend we’re as brave as they are. Blood sport is blood sport, whether it’s two dogs, or two cage fighters.
And yes, we used to let our dog fight the neighbour’s dogs. It ain’t pretty, but neither were our own lives.
I wonder Vicks need for a pet would be satisfied if Favre sent Vick a picture of his dog.
I’d better clarify, I let my dog fight when I was 12 years old. I’m against dog fighting, I just don’t see it as a major crime. It’s on the same level as the UFC, or Pride Fighting. It’s unpleasant, not criminal. If dog fighting were criminal, you’d have to look at rodeo, the circus, slaughter houses, hunting, and dozens of other activities as criminal also.
The more so called celebrities and sports personalities I hear about `The More I Like My Dog
@coach
1.) About 40 people (children) per year die by drowning in 5-gallon water pails. A person, during their lifetime, is 16 times more likely to drown in a 5-gallon water pail than to be killed by a Pit Bull.
2.) Approximately 50 children in the US are killed every year by their cribs – 25 times the number of children and adults killed by Pit Bulls.
3.) Approximately 150 people are killed every year by falling coconuts. Therefore, you are more than 60 TIMES MORE LIKELY to be killed by a PALM TREE than a Pit Bull.
4.) Each year, 350 people drown in their bathtubs. You are 151 times more likely to be killed by your bathtub than you are by a Pit Bull.
5) Every year, more than 2,000 children in the U.S. are killed by their parents or guardians either through abuse or neglect. A child is more than 800 times more likely to be killed by their caretaker than by a Pit Bull.
6) It can be estimated that for every Pit Bull who kills, there are 10.5 MILLION that DON’T!
beagle: vick should have done 2 years in prison.
I quite agree, followed by neutering and the by-products fed to his dogs.
10 million pit bulls in the world? That can’t be true can it? What a sick, demented species we’ve become. Hasse@norway, your statistics are almost as meaningless as your country.
I’m sure they exist but I’ve never met a bad pit bull. If I ever do, I’ll introduce it to the goddamned Pomeranian down the block.
Bruce, you are so full of BS I can smell you though my inter-web. Do you expand that same ‘humanity’ to kids also? The fact that I cuffed my girl upside the head a month ago make me also morally reprehensible?
Dog fighting, cock fighting and many other forms are viewed as ‘entertainment’ all around the world by many cultures, including black culture in the southern United States. I bet on and watched cock fighting last time I was in Mexico. I agree that dog fighting sucks;but dogs that lose dog fights need to be put down, no? Do you have the ‘humanity’ to do that? Unfortunately that is the most humane act available for such dogs.
Regarding M.Vick
I’m not sure many here watch the NFL, nor have they kept-up with the on going M.Vick story. Now I’m not counting unhatched chickens, but compared to other celebs such as Tiger, M.Vicks ACTIONS seem to be much more sincere than any other sport f’up I can think of(except perhaps Craig McTavish). Playing QB in the NFL is IMO one of, if not the most stressful and difficult job; and I don’t just mean sports. The fact that M.Vick in two short years has taken the reins of a football team and is a MVP candidate speaks to the level of commitment and hard work he has put-in. If people can put their bias against athletes aside, it is nothing short of miraculous that he is where he is today. I’m not Barak’s buddy, but I also commend him for congratulating the Eagles and Reid. Whether you like it or not, M.Vick will serve as an inspiration for those that DO wish to turn their lives around. That is good. unfortunately, many other good deeds go unrecognized and that seems to be where much of the vitriol comes from. Just like Iraq, the fact that Darfur was in some peoples minds(the Left) a better war to be in doesn’t lessen the importance of the other aforementioned war. It is not a zero sum game, there are only only so many shout-outs that Barak can make.
so yeah, I admire M.Vick, I admire his hard work, his dedication and his ability to get-up when the chips are down. Like lil’Wayne said:
“But since I am human, I’m both good and bad as well, but I try my hardest to stay good. And some of the things I do and say may be bad, or just not too good; but I do try.”
Greyburr…let me fix that for ya
I wonder Vicks need for a pet would be satisfied if Favre sent Vick a *picks* of his dog.
BTW, if you do that on a Blackberry, can we call it Clitoring?
Some commenters at the link suggest that Michael Vick is a changed man.
I’ve heard that argument before.
For the number of years Vick ran his dog fighting operation, people would come, bet on and watch the fights, and sometimes bring dogs of their own to contend.
Does anyone have any links to the stories about the arrests and prosecution of these people?
Surely if Vick is a changed man he would have exposed these people as part of the process of that change.
As Whoopsie said” Well, it’s not like it’s fight fighting.” I still have some respect for Vick’s athletic talent, as I do with Woods and Farve, but I have no respect for them as people. If Vick has done his time then move on.
oz
It appears we are disagreeable today (see other threads), but regarding my MV comment, I made a point of saying I’m not counting unhatched chickens yet. My question to you, and others, is how much have you followed MV’s story since he’s left the pen? I suspect that many here and elsewhere have had their opinions set since he was convicted, and have carried-on that opinion without following-up on his progress.
My Christian friends here are apt to quote the bible and such, and one Christian saying (not biblical I think) is that ‘forgiveness is divine’, but I’ve always thought that this is contingent on making amends and such. Unless of course his crime is not forgivable. My point is this… I understand that many people are not ready to forgive MV; but, I would suggest that he is entitled to the same opportunity to make amends and EARN that forgiveness. As I said earlier, I believe that much of the vitriol comes from what I perceive as a personal bias against athletes, the money they make, and how they earn it.
‘Surely if Vick is a changed man he would have exposed these people as part of the process of that change.’
btw, he did
The courts were not interested in others, they were looking for the ‘trophy case'(ironic eh?) and only cared about MV.
Indi, I’m not jealous of the wealth or fame of athletes.
I don’t even follow sports.
Personally, I live a life of contentment.
Vick had it all too, but decided to be unfathomably cruel to dogs just to be cool.
btw, he did
links?
I think Michael Vick should look after beagle.
This thread I perceive is not about Michael Vick and dog fighting but rather about the arrigant, callous HSUS. My experience is that like their Camadian counterpart they are more involved in raising money for their personal welfare/income than the welfare of animals. If they need a job, they should sell shoes.
Gotcha Oz. One of the main reasons I frequent this place is because this the place where I find people who live lives of contentment. I think that is the difference between us and them. That’s all that player hating stuff I harp on. I think that often, there is a lack of a common frame of reference so my points are often misunderstood by people I agree with. That is why I often share music and things that I enjoy.
I’ll agree with you about this, MV did have it all, materially speaking that is. If MV truly had it all, he wouldn’t have been in that situation in the first place.
As far as athletes, I’m saying I think a lot vitriol comes from that bias. I’m not saying you specifically have that bias that I’ve witness in many others.
Go to Wiki and enter M.Vick. It’s all there. Sorry gotta run. I’ll do better tomorrow if you still require more info.
Dogs are known to protect their owners. Sounds mighty suspicious to me. Like guns they need to be banned to make being a criminal that much safer for their work on greedy middle class people. Can’t have people defending themselves, or have animals for that purpose. Its inhuman says the socialist.
No criminal left out, is the Marxist mentality.
This may ruin police & lawyer jobs if the public catches on.
Frankly this is just another organization that represents the exact opposite of what they portray as their mission.
Its anti-animal pretending to be pro.
Its just another bunch of busybodies trying to control every aspect of individual peoples lives by social failures.
JMO
Indiana:
Frankly I am stunned by your vitriol.
Have I put down dogs…yes. I have had to shoot a few dogs to put them out of their misery. I didn’t enjoy it, but I did what was necessary in the circumstances.
As to your comments about cock fighting or dog fighting as being acceptable entertainment…well…
The only thing that I can say is that you appear to be an asshole.
One last thing, Indiana.
I had 2 dogs for nearly sixteen years.
They were litter brothers.
I had to put them down last June.
My wife and I loved those good dogs.
They were never apart from each other and we never put them in a kennel or left them in someone else’s care.
We groomed them ourselves and made their food from scratch.
The last couple of years we carried them up and down the stairs of our home to keep them from injury.
The last winter was too hard on them, especially because there wasn’t any real summer in 2009.
I could see that they should have been put down in May because of their health problems but my wife just couldn’t let go.
We had been preparing ourselves mentally for years because they were about 30% older than other examples of their breed normally lived.
It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do and I felt like a betrayer to them even though I knew it had to be done.
To think that people like Vick harm dogs just for jollies is very difficult.
Oz:
I had to go through that last year with my beloved dog, a golden retriever. I now have a replacement of the same breed but nothing will replace my former pup.
Having to put a dog down is often known as the final act of kindness. I suppose that is true, but that does not eliminate the heartache.
I will go to my grave remembering the fact that my beloved dog died with his head in my lap.
I am a pretty tough guy, but have a soft spot for animals, particularly dogs.
If you have not seen this before, below is something that may be appropriate:
Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.
When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.
There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together.
There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.
All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.
The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.
They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.
You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.
Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together….
Author unknown…
Now I am going to pet my dog…
@Hasse@Norway at January 5, 2011 3:40 PM.
WTF are you daft? You just made me skip all the comments below yours from your retard math!
Did you adjust your likelihood of occurrence for exposure to states?
1. Pails: Every kid encounters a pail full of water eventually. Does every kid encounter a pitbull as frequently as (5 gallon) pails? And why are 5 gallon pails so much more deadly than 10 gallon? I suspect children are held under water in pails by caregivers and not fed to pitbulls.
2. Cribs: nearly every kid sleeps in a crib. Not ever kid is fed to a pitbull.
3. Falling coconuts? Is that even reported? Anyhow standing under coconut trees probably occurs more frequently than hanging with pitbulls on deserted islands.
4. Bathtubs: again, everyone takes a bath, most every day (except public transport riders). Not everyone locks themselves in the bathroom with a pitbull on a daily basis.
5. Death by parents… mmm, everyone has parents, not everyone’s parents love them.
6. That’s a pretty rough estimate, considering for each of the above, your likelihood ratio was entirely different. Pitbulls are normally locked up and not given enough free range to chomp as they please. It’s like saying people on death row don’t murder people.
Put every kid in a locked room with a pitbull every day then re-run your numbers. You might see something different.
Anyway, I’m not opposed to owning pitbulls, just opposed to retarded statistics. Thanks for playing.
Oz and Bruce, agreed, it is a tough thing to do. I have had to do this a few times in my days and another time I should have, but just could not do it and by morning she had died. It still bothers me.
Bruce, Oz and Ken – last spring my family’s old cat*** had to be put down. She literally died in my arms. I found her in a tree when she was a kitten. She was very sick, she couldn’t even drink, and I still feel that I betrayed her, that I should have protected her.
(***I realize cats probably don’t rate up there with dogs for some of you, but I’ll have to disagree.)
Anyway, to avoid being completely OT I’ll just point out that I think the post was really about the hypocrisy, not to say the sheer bovine excrementality, of HSUS. ($50,000 donation?)
Thank you Bruce, Ken, and Black Mamba for your stories and kind words.
Our pets are dependent on us for care and many of the essentials of life.
We grow so close to them by providing these things and to harm them in any way for any reason runs back against the grain of that care.
People who own animals and inflict pain instead of care, as Michael Vick, did deserve my approbation.
The abscence of empathy that man has to have had to do what he did over that period of time isn’t something that changes.
Sociopathy, which is an incurable disorder, is marked by such a lack of empathy.
JMO
@eljay
I’m sure those stats have some issues. Copy paste from some site, since I’ve got a tennis elbow and uses only one hand to write. It takes forever. Time saving
But still according to the CDC the most people killed by pits are 12 persons over a 2 year period. So, 6 a year at most? The number of pits is estimated to be about 3 million dogs. A sensible number given there are 250000 Staffordshire bull terriers in the UK. So at most in the US, pits kill 2 persons per 1 million dogs in existence at that time. 10.5 million must come from the high number of pits PTS every year.
Actually I’ve also heard 1000 kids killed by their own parents, so let’s use that number rather than 2000(including caregivers). Say, all 300 million Americans are parents. Then, more than 3 children are killed per 1 million parents.
So next time you see someone walking their kid and pit bull, it’s more likely their parents kill them rather than the dog.
Anyway using “locking up kids with dangerous dogs” as an example are pretty daft too. First of, a dog needs to be trained and treated properly. Millions of pits live in homes with children as family pets. They are not locked up waiting to be unleashed upon the world.
What about children living 24/7 under a coconut three and rerun those numbers?
10-20 people are killed by candel lights in Norway from a population of >5 million.
Dogs, compared to other risks are very safe.
@Coach
“Hasse@norway, your statistics are almost as meaningless as your country.”
Tell that to our PM and the “environment-and-development minister” when they once again cough up billions to further their chances of getting a top UN job. At least we don’t have any national debt, at all. Unlike some other country who just broke the 14 trillion mark. Congrats!!