66 Replies to “Looking for a Career as a Motivational Speaker?”
Awesome!
That guy for President!
Damn straight, he lets them know what we think of the terrorists hugging thugs.
Um, make that a SEVERE language warning.
Um, make that a SEVERE language warning.
Posted by: grok at November 26, 2010 12:54 PM
Heh, no kidding, definitely not safe for work. Almost as many f-bombs as there are regular words.
Good to see some good, old fashioned boot camp tactics at work here. Nothing else is going to whip locals into a decent fighting force, either in Iraq or Afstan, especially in a culture where pride and honour are valued, and strength is respected.
How to win hearts and minds.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but these are Iraqi police not Iraqi soldiers.
Is this American soldier confused as to what their job description is?
Policing: To enforce the law and arrest civilians who break the law.
Soldiering: To locate enemy soldiers/fighters and fight/kill them.
It’s depressing seeing our(in this case US) troops caring more about defending their countries than they do. Kind of makes you want to tell them to go #$*@ themselves.
It’s that type of straightforward talk that allows the military to get stuff done where others wring their hands and contemplate.
Booya!
An excerpt from Rudyard Kipling’s poem “Tommy”. (Tommy, a 19th century Brit nickname for Soldiers.)
“Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep,
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit,
Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul?”
But it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll.”
Is that soldier single? That was easily one of the most manly and sexy things I have ever heard in my life. That “pep-talk” was a man explaining to boys how to grow some cahones and be real men. Hopefully they actually listened.
On one of the courses I taught in basic training (combined arms) we caught heck from higher-ups for using ‘bad language’ to motivate the troops.
I thought it was comparativly mild, to this.
We just continued to motivate them out of earshot.
I’m guessing that the speaker does not have the benefit of a liberal arts degree. Not once did I hear the terms “sustainability”, “diversity”, “social justice”, or “inclusiveness.”
Behold The Ugly American in all his splendour.
Iraqi soldiers, like American soldiers, have helmets, body armour, and radios that they can use to call for heavy assets like artillery/ armoured vehicles/ air strikes.
Thes guys in blue were Iraqi POLICE who don’t have any of those things.
That “pep talk” was counter productive.
That “manly” U.S. soldier just lost face with that cadre of Iraqi police.
The day that American soldier walks south to that river he was speaking of with no helmet, no body armour, and no TAC radio lifeline just like those Iraqi police DON’T HAVE will be the day he walks a mile in their shoes.
Those Iraqi police braved suicide bombers just to line up and enlist as police cadets.
I’d give links to show how many times lineups to join the Iraqi police have been bombed, but most of my posts with links get caught in the spam filter and the people on this thread can’t even figure out the difference between police and soldiers.
That’s all I’ve got to say.
“Thes guys in blue were Iraqi POLICE who don’t have any of those things.”
They were obviously SWAT.
And yes Police do these things.
I’m not offended.
… and what the marine is saying, make your mind up as to what do you want, a country? or a failed country without a real police force? some things need to be said, some things need to be said about a million times before they “get it”.
I’m certain that if these men hadn’t been forced into koranic studies and wasted vast sections of their minds they’d find it easier to absorb most new concepts.
They were obviously SWAT.
And yes Police do these things.
~celina
Bullshit.
There is no SWAT in the Iraqi Police Force.
The Iraqi ARMY and U.S. Army/Marines are Iraq’s SWAT.
In a country where every household has an AK-47, special weapons means having a tank.
Odd that people think that because they are police, not army, that it is not their place to be fighting. Unlike our police they have bigger problems than writing speeding tickets or checking for drunk drivers, their job is to go after the bad guys just like the army. I believe the only difference is that the army is a bit more of a blunt instrument whereas it is the police that have to go in and actively separate the bad guys from the civilian population daily.
Pretty sure the police have all the protective equipment necessary, too. Even if they weren’t wearing it at that time.
It isn’t like there are places in some Western cities where their local police forces will not venture at times. Oh, wait…
I believe the only difference is that the army is a bit more of a blunt instrument whereas it is the police that have to go in and actively separate the bad guys from the civilian population daily.
And what, other than pure fancy, would this belief be based on?
This U.S.soldier ranting at the Iraqi Police screwed up Big Time.
It was counter productive.
What is the context of the reason for the speech?
It’s called balls folks…balls.
All I get from the text of the speech is that the soldier giving it thinks the group of Iraqi Police he is speaking to is heavily infiltrated by Madhi Army or Madhi Army collaborators who are either trying to kill him and his men or trying to set him and his men up for ambushes.
If they are Madhi Army/Collaborators, then his speech is going to help them sway more of that particular cadre to side with the Madhi.
If he wants them to side with Iraq and have patriotic feelings transcend religious considerations instead, he didn’t make a case for it in that speech.
grok @2:27 – “What is the context of the reason for the speech?”
Yes, an overall thingee about who was talking at whom would be helpful. Impressive, still.
Oz, pill. This video is from years ago, when the Mahdi army was all the rage (and in the news constantly). And yes, many of the police force were also Mahdi at that time and turning equipment over to the Mahdis, so he had every right to be pissed off with them.
Further, being a police officer in a war zone is different than being one when things are peaceful. In this case, it’s about catching very bad men. Not somewhat bad men. Very bed men. These guys would have had support from US soldiers. It’s just that they didn’t want to, and joined the Mahdis because they were trying to cover all their bases.
And everyone knew it.
Reading people’s reaction to this is like reading the original reactions when this first made the rounds. Including the marriage thing.
@Oz: You have some incorrect assumptions:
– Iraqi Police force does have trained SWAT
– Iraqi Police force does have access to call in military assistance.
If the Iraqi Police can’t or rather won’t conduct a patrol within their own jurisdiction without getting into a gunfight (and winning said gunfight), then they don’t deserve to be called police. They’ve squandered their chance to earn their authority. Or it evaporated. That was what the Marine was trying to get across.
From the Marine’s response to the guy who asked the questions at the end, it sounded like they were whining about not having trucks to do their patrols. What was his response? ‘Walk. Get some water, get your weapons and walk down there.’ That’s the kind of thinking that differentiates that Marine from every single one of the Iraqi’s lined up there.
A soldier teaching tactics to a police force is not that difficult a concept to understand. Police patrolling… again, not a cognitive leap.
Belief based on experience. Been there and done that.
The police do not use heavy weapons or heavy armor because that would be too cumbersome for their task and rather counter-productive. The police work among the population so collateral damage is far too likely, for example. As well, you can’t do the work of a police officer from a 70 ton main battle tank.
Obviously if there is a situation the police can’t handle the army will take it. They do have radios and support from their army and the Americans. Many times it is up to the police to find the bad guys so that the army can move on them.
Reference their “brave” enlistment in the police force braving suicide bombers. Many of them only sign up for the paycheck in lieu of unemployment and, like the American soldier calls them out on, not out of loyalty to Iraq. Few of them sign up for the right reasons.
Oz, I’m not sure there’s a need to berate others on this thread. I think most here are probably of the same mind regarding wanting Iraq to succeed as a nascent democracy, even though opinions may differ over this particular video.
If I may add one insight, the video begins with the soldier asking about involvement in the Madhi militia, which seems to be from where his dressing down began. If indeed there was evidence of divided loyalties among members of the police troupe he was addressing, it would seem there existed justification for the blunt speechifying.
I’d also venture to guess that there’s rather robust overlap between soldiering and policing in Iraq at this stage of its development. Based on the clothing (long sleeved, blue shirts), these were members of the Iraqi Police Service, the force responsible for patrolling, and responding to incidents within Iraqi cities. While not shown here, the IPS force is equipped with body armor (specifically, what is known as the PASGT combat vest and helmet — equipment retired from the US military a few years ago) and significant weaponry, including AKs. They definitely have the hardware to engage in firefights with insurgents.
In terms of SWAT, the closest correlation would probably be the Iraqi National Police — a hybrid police/soldier force (i.e. paramilitary), responsible for responding to incidents deemed beyond the scope of the IPS, but not serious enough to warrant formal military involvement. In any case, these individuals were not members of the NP.
Notwithstanding any of the foregoing, your point is well taken with respect to the risk these people take being members of the Iraqi police. Many Iraqi men have died simply lining up for recruitment.
So, in a nutshell: If you don’t care enough to confront the enemy, why the f*&k should I? It isn’t my country. Makes sense to me.
What the learned Marine is calling them out on is their divided loyalties.
At the beginning he queries how many of the men in the line up belong to the Mahdi militia?
Obviously, the Marine felt the divided loyalties were seriously compromising their effectiveness.
When you tell your police squad that “When the Sunnis come to cut your head off, I won’t be coming to help you!” it should underline the fact that if you don’t hold the line you won’t be here for the long term.
He is asking them to “man up”. In short my men aren’t going to die because the police force lack the courage to do your job effectively.
So the Marines who are quite willing to put their life on the line and ‘eat the dirt sandwich’ aren’t impressed as to why they don’t have the same concern for their “OWN COUNTRY”.
Clearly, the Marine is concerned that they are ‘hedging their bets’. You can’t be members of the Bundespolizei(good guys) and the Gestapo(bad guys) at the same time…
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
I have to wonder how *complete* the translation was. Did he include the equivalently strong Arabic words or did he soften them? For instance, did he call them “f–ing women”, or “women”, or did he use something that would be less insulting in a machismo-driven society?
And I wonder how many of those Iraqi policemen learned a new English word that day.
what’s the f word in iraqi? LOL !!!
drill sargeant 2.0 hoo rah !!!!
OZ: You don’t read much about the realities in Iraq and their police, do you?
Corruption, double-dealing, turning over civilians to terrorists, torturing those they capture, protection/extortion fees, interfering with Iraqi Army operations, theft of weapons and equipment, giving intel to terrorists, cheating during elections, etc. etc. etc.
Perhaps a little read about Mosul, and how the police there had to be turned around would do you some good. Your opinions as expressed here are based on utter ignorance of the facts and how US forces were able to greatly improve Iraqi Police forces and reduce corruption.
While not shown here, the IPS force is equipped with body armor (specifically, what is known as the PASGT combat vest and helmet — equipment retired from the US military a few years ago)
These Iraqi Police clearly have neither helmets nor body armour.
The U.S. soldier is challenging them to immediately go on a combat sweep, as if they were Iraqi soldiers, except they have no armour.
As to the assertion about truck transport.
It has been a longstanding beef that their trucks are in no way armoured, unlike the American Hummers, and everybody drinks 20 liters of water per day.(water weighs 20+ lbs per cubic foot)
There is a delicate balance between how much ammunition and how much water can be carried.
Dehydration has a deleterious affect on combat capability.
Bottom line: combat patrols are for soldiers not police. If you don’t care enough to confront the enemy, why the f*&k should I? It isn’t my country.
Apparently, the beginning of the tirade hinged on whether or not the American’s enemy was considered to be the enemy of that group of Iraqi Police.
The speaker didn’t make the case that they were.
The Madhi are Shia.
The majority of Iraqis are Shia.
That group of Iraqi Police were likely all Shia.
The Sunni are unlikely to gain control of Iraq again as they did under Saddam, although at that time Iraqi al Qaeda which was/is Sunni, was running around cutting heads off.
As I said before, the speaker didn’t make a case that Iraqi patriotism was better than cleaving to their religious loyalty.
OZ: You don’t read much about the realities in Iraq and their police, do you?
~cjunk
I read plenty about it.
I’m sure I know as much about it as you do or more.
I had read that the Iraqi Police had to be turned around in their basic attitudes about policing.
This vid that you posted isn’t an example of any kind of a turnaround or technique for a turnaround.
No way did anything that was said by this speaker have any productive value.
As far as corruption goes, I’m sure that zero headway has been made on that front.
When western forces leave Iraq and Afghanistan, these 2 Islamic Republics will be putty in the hands of Islamic clerics.
This is years old. These cops are all police chiefs by now probably. The best part is the Iraqi translator is repeating the Maldivian wedding ceremony to the police rather than what the American is saying.
If I could edit this video, the Iraqi soldiers would be replaced with members of the Liberal govt and their ilk.
…edit…due to head cold….
members of the Liberal party.
Although I’m going to be accused of mixing apples with pomegranats, I think this applies…
My son did 3 tours in Afstan, the second of which was spent training the Afstan army trainees in Kabul. He opined that he was ambivalent on the usefulness of the exercise, mostly because the recruits were motivated primarily by the money promised them if they joined, and that most of them had no real intention of actually fighting for their country, as they had little allegiance to Karzai.
His last tour involved leading his squad on patrols, with Afstan soldiers who actually had the cojones to stay the course, and do what the Canuck soldiers were helping them with, i.e. making Kandahar province a safer place for their families. Dave didn’t think more than 10% of the recruits actually made it through training and go on to fight alongside the Canucks against the taliban infiltrators. But the Afstan soldiers he took on patrol with his squad were brave and motivated, and he felt they would haul his a$$ out of a fire zone if he caught one.
The point is, the instructor in the clip shown is calling the shots pretty accurately, in all likelihood. The recruits he is dressing down are likely there to earn a few bucks for a limited time, and they have no intention of risking their lives for just that, or for very long.
I remain sceptical of Iraqi or Afghanistan independence.
Your opinions as expressed here are based on utter ignorance of the facts
~cjunk
Unlike you, I’m not so ignorant and arrogant as to assume that Iraqi values and motives are the same as American ones.
The Iraqi view of what Iraq should be as a nation isn’t the same as the American view.
As in Afghanistan, western forces have made no effort to explain to the Iraqi people why their country was invaded and occupied.
While some may see the “terrorists” as enemies, many see them as real patriots like the French Resistance fighting the foreign occupiers.
They see western forces as invaders, occupiers, infidels, and crusaders.
What would Iraqis think of the flypaper theory?
Would they think of Americans as protectors if they knew that their country was invaded so that the terrorists could be fought in their homeland instead of ours?
Would Iraqis think that, after their country was invaded and conquered by foreign infidels, that they shouldn’t possess stockpiles of ABC weapons when their neighbouring enemy Iran has them and the American President isn’t likely to use any even in retaliation against an ABC attack on Amsterdam?
Oz … They see western forces as invaders, occupiers, infidels, and crusaders.
Now your opining makes sense. We will never, in a million years, agree on this.
From November 19, 2010 92% of Afghans have never heard of 9/11, think U.S. is in country to “destroy Islam” http://tinyurl.com/295moal
That’s right, over 9 years later and most Afghans think that to fight the invaders is an act of patriotism and defence of Islam.
No doubt at all that Iraq is the same.
At least in Afghanistan we could have explained the 9/11 attack to them as our reason for invading(we haven’t) but what explanation could Iraqis be given?
That we went there just to liberate them from Saddam?
That would be a lie.
Now your opining makes sense. We will never, in a million years, agree on this.
~cjunk
That’s because you’re ignorant.
Click and read my link at 4:11PM.
It’s only the 3rd time I’ve posted it on SDA since November 19.
The other 2 times were in the Reader`s Tips.
Amsterdam is a damn fine Arab city, hands off the califate there Ozboy.
Oz … your 4:11 is an opinion based on nothing of substance other than your own personal understanding of the reality on the ground in Iraq. It’s certianly not based on most polls taken in Iraq since the invasion, nor based on the massive amount of personal and publicly shared experience of US service men and women. The latest poll in 2010, in fact, shows that even now, a majority of Iraqis want American forces to remain.
But, given your views, I understand why said soldier dressing down the Iraqi Police would offend you … a bully; … a crusader and all.
OK fine, I mistyped 4:22PM as 4:11PM.
I can understand fully how you couldn’t figure it out, cjunk.
From November 19, 2010 92% of Afghans have never heard of 9/11, think U.S. is in country to “destroy Islam” http://tinyurl.com/295moal
not that you’ll copy/paste and read it, but there it is.
It’s LINK.
Both Iraq and Afghanistan have radio call in and talk shows from what I’ve read. These political discussions must occur there.
The Iraqi population turned out to vote and continues to do so. That is the best indication of many of them wanting to try out the democracy option. They’ve formed political parties and are working out how to share the oil revenues.
They must know how well off the Kurdish areas are with over 10 years without Saddam Hussein. I’ve no doubt both the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs are extremely thankful for the NATO/American war that overthrew Hussein.
Afghanistan is a more primitive, less developed group of societies. It will take a full generation of training and educating the armed forces to a high school level. Then they’ll be seen as a model for the rest to follow.
We’re in WW IV now. It’s going to be a long war.
As long as Middle East oil money can fund this it is going to be a problem.
If you think this is bad, imagine having to fight in Africa which is Al Queda’s 2nd front.
If China decides to enter the fray they’ll just vapourize the jungle. Democracy isn’t in their political vocabulary.
Europe is their 3rd front. And we could end up fighting Islamofascism(again) there in a generation from now, when
Muslims make up 40 to 50% of Eurabia’s youth. Mohammed is the most popular boys name in Londonistan, now.
OZ: Your mistake is to compare Afghanistan to Iraq. Afghanistan had one of the lowest literacy rates on the planet prior to the invasion; Iraq had a good literacy rate and had been subjected to secular law under Saddam. Iraq has, in fact, a massive middle class and bureaucracy … Afghanistan can’t have either a significant bureaucracy or middle class until enough children are educated and become adults. Even trying to fill the ANA officer ranks is more difficult because there aren’t enough experienced, motivated, and skilled soldiers WHO CAN READ. In Iraq, this is not a problem.
So while Iraq has its share of ignorance, it compares in no way to Afghanistan.
Strangely though, both Afghanis and Iraqis want American and ISAF forces to remain.
THe bottom line is the yanks have put there life on the line and obeyed orders now they want to go home to there familys and these guys will have to take over and protect there freinds and family you have to start some time.
Awesome!
That guy for President!
Damn straight, he lets them know what we think of the terrorists hugging thugs.
Um, make that a SEVERE language warning.
Um, make that a SEVERE language warning.
Posted by: grok at November 26, 2010 12:54 PM
Heh, no kidding, definitely not safe for work. Almost as many f-bombs as there are regular words.
Good to see some good, old fashioned boot camp tactics at work here. Nothing else is going to whip locals into a decent fighting force, either in Iraq or Afstan, especially in a culture where pride and honour are valued, and strength is respected.
How to win hearts and minds.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but these are Iraqi police not Iraqi soldiers.
Is this American soldier confused as to what their job description is?
Policing: To enforce the law and arrest civilians who break the law.
Soldiering: To locate enemy soldiers/fighters and fight/kill them.
It’s depressing seeing our(in this case US) troops caring more about defending their countries than they do. Kind of makes you want to tell them to go #$*@ themselves.
It’s that type of straightforward talk that allows the military to get stuff done where others wring their hands and contemplate.
Booya!
An excerpt from Rudyard Kipling’s poem “Tommy”. (Tommy, a 19th century Brit nickname for Soldiers.)
“Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep,
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit,
Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul?”
But it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll.”
Is that soldier single? That was easily one of the most manly and sexy things I have ever heard in my life. That “pep-talk” was a man explaining to boys how to grow some cahones and be real men. Hopefully they actually listened.
On one of the courses I taught in basic training (combined arms) we caught heck from higher-ups for using ‘bad language’ to motivate the troops.
I thought it was comparativly mild, to this.
We just continued to motivate them out of earshot.
I’m guessing that the speaker does not have the benefit of a liberal arts degree. Not once did I hear the terms “sustainability”, “diversity”, “social justice”, or “inclusiveness.”
Behold The Ugly American in all his splendour.
Iraqi soldiers, like American soldiers, have helmets, body armour, and radios that they can use to call for heavy assets like artillery/ armoured vehicles/ air strikes.
Thes guys in blue were Iraqi POLICE who don’t have any of those things.
That “pep talk” was counter productive.
That “manly” U.S. soldier just lost face with that cadre of Iraqi police.
The day that American soldier walks south to that river he was speaking of with no helmet, no body armour, and no TAC radio lifeline just like those Iraqi police DON’T HAVE will be the day he walks a mile in their shoes.
Those Iraqi police braved suicide bombers just to line up and enlist as police cadets.
I’d give links to show how many times lineups to join the Iraqi police have been bombed, but most of my posts with links get caught in the spam filter and the people on this thread can’t even figure out the difference between police and soldiers.
That’s all I’ve got to say.
“Thes guys in blue were Iraqi POLICE who don’t have any of those things.”
They were obviously SWAT.
And yes Police do these things.
I’m not offended.
… and what the marine is saying, make your mind up as to what do you want, a country? or a failed country without a real police force? some things need to be said, some things need to be said about a million times before they “get it”.
I’m certain that if these men hadn’t been forced into koranic studies and wasted vast sections of their minds they’d find it easier to absorb most new concepts.
They were obviously SWAT.
And yes Police do these things.
~celina
Bullshit.
There is no SWAT in the Iraqi Police Force.
The Iraqi ARMY and U.S. Army/Marines are Iraq’s SWAT.
In a country where every household has an AK-47, special weapons means having a tank.
Odd that people think that because they are police, not army, that it is not their place to be fighting. Unlike our police they have bigger problems than writing speeding tickets or checking for drunk drivers, their job is to go after the bad guys just like the army. I believe the only difference is that the army is a bit more of a blunt instrument whereas it is the police that have to go in and actively separate the bad guys from the civilian population daily.
Pretty sure the police have all the protective equipment necessary, too. Even if they weren’t wearing it at that time.
It isn’t like there are places in some Western cities where their local police forces will not venture at times. Oh, wait…
I believe the only difference is that the army is a bit more of a blunt instrument whereas it is the police that have to go in and actively separate the bad guys from the civilian population daily.
And what, other than pure fancy, would this belief be based on?
This U.S.soldier ranting at the Iraqi Police screwed up Big Time.
It was counter productive.
What is the context of the reason for the speech?
It’s called balls folks…balls.
All I get from the text of the speech is that the soldier giving it thinks the group of Iraqi Police he is speaking to is heavily infiltrated by Madhi Army or Madhi Army collaborators who are either trying to kill him and his men or trying to set him and his men up for ambushes.
If they are Madhi Army/Collaborators, then his speech is going to help them sway more of that particular cadre to side with the Madhi.
If he wants them to side with Iraq and have patriotic feelings transcend religious considerations instead, he didn’t make a case for it in that speech.
grok @2:27 – “What is the context of the reason for the speech?”
Yes, an overall thingee about who was talking at whom would be helpful. Impressive, still.
Oz, pill. This video is from years ago, when the Mahdi army was all the rage (and in the news constantly). And yes, many of the police force were also Mahdi at that time and turning equipment over to the Mahdis, so he had every right to be pissed off with them.
Further, being a police officer in a war zone is different than being one when things are peaceful. In this case, it’s about catching very bad men. Not somewhat bad men. Very bed men. These guys would have had support from US soldiers. It’s just that they didn’t want to, and joined the Mahdis because they were trying to cover all their bases.
And everyone knew it.
Reading people’s reaction to this is like reading the original reactions when this first made the rounds. Including the marriage thing.
@Oz: You have some incorrect assumptions:
– Iraqi Police force does have trained SWAT
– Iraqi Police force does have access to call in military assistance.
If the Iraqi Police can’t or rather won’t conduct a patrol within their own jurisdiction without getting into a gunfight (and winning said gunfight), then they don’t deserve to be called police. They’ve squandered their chance to earn their authority. Or it evaporated. That was what the Marine was trying to get across.
From the Marine’s response to the guy who asked the questions at the end, it sounded like they were whining about not having trucks to do their patrols. What was his response? ‘Walk. Get some water, get your weapons and walk down there.’ That’s the kind of thinking that differentiates that Marine from every single one of the Iraqi’s lined up there.
A soldier teaching tactics to a police force is not that difficult a concept to understand. Police patrolling… again, not a cognitive leap.
Belief based on experience. Been there and done that.
The police do not use heavy weapons or heavy armor because that would be too cumbersome for their task and rather counter-productive. The police work among the population so collateral damage is far too likely, for example. As well, you can’t do the work of a police officer from a 70 ton main battle tank.
Obviously if there is a situation the police can’t handle the army will take it. They do have radios and support from their army and the Americans. Many times it is up to the police to find the bad guys so that the army can move on them.
Reference their “brave” enlistment in the police force braving suicide bombers. Many of them only sign up for the paycheck in lieu of unemployment and, like the American soldier calls them out on, not out of loyalty to Iraq. Few of them sign up for the right reasons.
Oz, I’m not sure there’s a need to berate others on this thread. I think most here are probably of the same mind regarding wanting Iraq to succeed as a nascent democracy, even though opinions may differ over this particular video.
If I may add one insight, the video begins with the soldier asking about involvement in the Madhi militia, which seems to be from where his dressing down began. If indeed there was evidence of divided loyalties among members of the police troupe he was addressing, it would seem there existed justification for the blunt speechifying.
I’d also venture to guess that there’s rather robust overlap between soldiering and policing in Iraq at this stage of its development. Based on the clothing (long sleeved, blue shirts), these were members of the Iraqi Police Service, the force responsible for patrolling, and responding to incidents within Iraqi cities. While not shown here, the IPS force is equipped with body armor (specifically, what is known as the PASGT combat vest and helmet — equipment retired from the US military a few years ago) and significant weaponry, including AKs. They definitely have the hardware to engage in firefights with insurgents.
In terms of SWAT, the closest correlation would probably be the Iraqi National Police — a hybrid police/soldier force (i.e. paramilitary), responsible for responding to incidents deemed beyond the scope of the IPS, but not serious enough to warrant formal military involvement. In any case, these individuals were not members of the NP.
Notwithstanding any of the foregoing, your point is well taken with respect to the risk these people take being members of the Iraqi police. Many Iraqi men have died simply lining up for recruitment.
So, in a nutshell: If you don’t care enough to confront the enemy, why the f*&k should I? It isn’t my country. Makes sense to me.
What the learned Marine is calling them out on is their divided loyalties.
At the beginning he queries how many of the men in the line up belong to the Mahdi militia?
Obviously, the Marine felt the divided loyalties were seriously compromising their effectiveness.
When you tell your police squad that “When the Sunnis come to cut your head off, I won’t be coming to help you!” it should underline the fact that if you don’t hold the line you won’t be here for the long term.
He is asking them to “man up”. In short my men aren’t going to die because the police force lack the courage to do your job effectively.
So the Marines who are quite willing to put their life on the line and ‘eat the dirt sandwich’ aren’t impressed as to why they don’t have the same concern for their “OWN COUNTRY”.
Clearly, the Marine is concerned that they are ‘hedging their bets’. You can’t be members of the Bundespolizei(good guys) and the Gestapo(bad guys) at the same time…
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
I have to wonder how *complete* the translation was. Did he include the equivalently strong Arabic words or did he soften them? For instance, did he call them “f–ing women”, or “women”, or did he use something that would be less insulting in a machismo-driven society?
And I wonder how many of those Iraqi policemen learned a new English word that day.
what’s the f word in iraqi? LOL !!!
drill sargeant 2.0 hoo rah !!!!
OZ: You don’t read much about the realities in Iraq and their police, do you?
Corruption, double-dealing, turning over civilians to terrorists, torturing those they capture, protection/extortion fees, interfering with Iraqi Army operations, theft of weapons and equipment, giving intel to terrorists, cheating during elections, etc. etc. etc.
Perhaps a little read about Mosul, and how the police there had to be turned around would do you some good. Your opinions as expressed here are based on utter ignorance of the facts and how US forces were able to greatly improve Iraqi Police forces and reduce corruption.
Will you watch Sun TV news? Take a poll:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofview/2010/11/sun-tv-will-you-watch-the-new-network.html
While not shown here, the IPS force is equipped with body armor (specifically, what is known as the PASGT combat vest and helmet — equipment retired from the US military a few years ago)
These Iraqi Police clearly have neither helmets nor body armour.
The U.S. soldier is challenging them to immediately go on a combat sweep, as if they were Iraqi soldiers, except they have no armour.
As to the assertion about truck transport.
It has been a longstanding beef that their trucks are in no way armoured, unlike the American Hummers, and everybody drinks 20 liters of water per day.(water weighs 20+ lbs per cubic foot)
There is a delicate balance between how much ammunition and how much water can be carried.
Dehydration has a deleterious affect on combat capability.
Bottom line: combat patrols are for soldiers not police.
If you don’t care enough to confront the enemy, why the f*&k should I? It isn’t my country.
Apparently, the beginning of the tirade hinged on whether or not the American’s enemy was considered to be the enemy of that group of Iraqi Police.
The speaker didn’t make the case that they were.
The Madhi are Shia.
The majority of Iraqis are Shia.
That group of Iraqi Police were likely all Shia.
The Sunni are unlikely to gain control of Iraq again as they did under Saddam, although at that time Iraqi al Qaeda which was/is Sunni, was running around cutting heads off.
As I said before, the speaker didn’t make a case that Iraqi patriotism was better than cleaving to their religious loyalty.
OZ: You don’t read much about the realities in Iraq and their police, do you?
~cjunk
I read plenty about it.
I’m sure I know as much about it as you do or more.
I had read that the Iraqi Police had to be turned around in their basic attitudes about policing.
This vid that you posted isn’t an example of any kind of a turnaround or technique for a turnaround.
No way did anything that was said by this speaker have any productive value.
As far as corruption goes, I’m sure that zero headway has been made on that front.
When western forces leave Iraq and Afghanistan, these 2 Islamic Republics will be putty in the hands of Islamic clerics.
Motivational speaking like that always reminds me of the Full Metal Jacket/Rudolph splice. Priceless
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-5yFNpNbSc
This is years old. These cops are all police chiefs by now probably. The best part is the Iraqi translator is repeating the Maldivian wedding ceremony to the police rather than what the American is saying.
If I could edit this video, the Iraqi soldiers would be replaced with members of the Liberal govt and their ilk.
…edit…due to head cold….
members of the Liberal party.
Although I’m going to be accused of mixing apples with pomegranats, I think this applies…
My son did 3 tours in Afstan, the second of which was spent training the Afstan army trainees in Kabul. He opined that he was ambivalent on the usefulness of the exercise, mostly because the recruits were motivated primarily by the money promised them if they joined, and that most of them had no real intention of actually fighting for their country, as they had little allegiance to Karzai.
His last tour involved leading his squad on patrols, with Afstan soldiers who actually had the cojones to stay the course, and do what the Canuck soldiers were helping them with, i.e. making Kandahar province a safer place for their families. Dave didn’t think more than 10% of the recruits actually made it through training and go on to fight alongside the Canucks against the taliban infiltrators. But the Afstan soldiers he took on patrol with his squad were brave and motivated, and he felt they would haul his a$$ out of a fire zone if he caught one.
The point is, the instructor in the clip shown is calling the shots pretty accurately, in all likelihood. The recruits he is dressing down are likely there to earn a few bucks for a limited time, and they have no intention of risking their lives for just that, or for very long.
I remain sceptical of Iraqi or Afghanistan independence.
Your opinions as expressed here are based on utter ignorance of the facts
~cjunk
Unlike you, I’m not so ignorant and arrogant as to assume that Iraqi values and motives are the same as American ones.
The Iraqi view of what Iraq should be as a nation isn’t the same as the American view.
As in Afghanistan, western forces have made no effort to explain to the Iraqi people why their country was invaded and occupied.
While some may see the “terrorists” as enemies, many see them as real patriots like the French Resistance fighting the foreign occupiers.
They see western forces as invaders, occupiers, infidels, and crusaders.
What would Iraqis think of the flypaper theory?
Would they think of Americans as protectors if they knew that their country was invaded so that the terrorists could be fought in their homeland instead of ours?
Would Iraqis think that, after their country was invaded and conquered by foreign infidels, that they shouldn’t possess stockpiles of ABC weapons when their neighbouring enemy Iran has them and the American President isn’t likely to use any even in retaliation against an ABC attack on Amsterdam?
Oz … They see western forces as invaders, occupiers, infidels, and crusaders.
Now your opining makes sense. We will never, in a million years, agree on this.
From November 19, 2010
92% of Afghans have never heard of 9/11, think U.S. is in country to “destroy Islam”
http://tinyurl.com/295moal
That’s right, over 9 years later and most Afghans think that to fight the invaders is an act of patriotism and defence of Islam.
No doubt at all that Iraq is the same.
At least in Afghanistan we could have explained the 9/11 attack to them as our reason for invading(we haven’t) but what explanation could Iraqis be given?
That we went there just to liberate them from Saddam?
That would be a lie.
Now your opining makes sense. We will never, in a million years, agree on this.
~cjunk
That’s because you’re ignorant.
Click and read my link at 4:11PM.
It’s only the 3rd time I’ve posted it on SDA since November 19.
The other 2 times were in the Reader`s Tips.
Amsterdam is a damn fine Arab city, hands off the califate there Ozboy.
Oz … your 4:11 is an opinion based on nothing of substance other than your own personal understanding of the reality on the ground in Iraq. It’s certianly not based on most polls taken in Iraq since the invasion, nor based on the massive amount of personal and publicly shared experience of US service men and women. The latest poll in 2010, in fact, shows that even now, a majority of Iraqis want American forces to remain.
But, given your views, I understand why said soldier dressing down the Iraqi Police would offend you … a bully; … a crusader and all.
OK fine, I mistyped 4:22PM as 4:11PM.
I can understand fully how you couldn’t figure it out, cjunk.
From November 19, 2010
92% of Afghans have never heard of 9/11, think U.S. is in country to “destroy Islam”
http://tinyurl.com/295moal
not that you’ll copy/paste and read it, but there it is.
It’s LINK.
Both Iraq and Afghanistan have radio call in and talk shows from what I’ve read. These political discussions must occur there.
The Iraqi population turned out to vote and continues to do so. That is the best indication of many of them wanting to try out the democracy option. They’ve formed political parties and are working out how to share the oil revenues.
They must know how well off the Kurdish areas are with over 10 years without Saddam Hussein. I’ve no doubt both the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs are extremely thankful for the NATO/American war that overthrew Hussein.
Afghanistan is a more primitive, less developed group of societies. It will take a full generation of training and educating the armed forces to a high school level. Then they’ll be seen as a model for the rest to follow.
We’re in WW IV now. It’s going to be a long war.
As long as Middle East oil money can fund this it is going to be a problem.
If you think this is bad, imagine having to fight in Africa which is Al Queda’s 2nd front.
If China decides to enter the fray they’ll just vapourize the jungle. Democracy isn’t in their political vocabulary.
Europe is their 3rd front. And we could end up fighting Islamofascism(again) there in a generation from now, when
Muslims make up 40 to 50% of Eurabia’s youth. Mohammed is the most popular boys name in Londonistan, now.
OZ: Your mistake is to compare Afghanistan to Iraq. Afghanistan had one of the lowest literacy rates on the planet prior to the invasion; Iraq had a good literacy rate and had been subjected to secular law under Saddam. Iraq has, in fact, a massive middle class and bureaucracy … Afghanistan can’t have either a significant bureaucracy or middle class until enough children are educated and become adults. Even trying to fill the ANA officer ranks is more difficult because there aren’t enough experienced, motivated, and skilled soldiers WHO CAN READ. In Iraq, this is not a problem.
So while Iraq has its share of ignorance, it compares in no way to Afghanistan.
Strangely though, both Afghanis and Iraqis want American and ISAF forces to remain.
THe bottom line is the yanks have put there life on the line and obeyed orders now they want to go home to there familys and these guys will have to take over and protect there freinds and family you have to start some time.