I want an electrical engineer and computer programmer and a automechanic to make me a laptop, and I-Pad and a car, and in return I will give them “sociologicizing,” a “lecture on women’s studies,” and some “philosophizing.”
HT and explanation of how leftists don’t understand bartering here.
Did some googling of “Going Market Rates”
Psychic: $80.00 /hr
feng shui practitioner: $300.00 /hr
Astrology reader: $100.00 /hr
Dating coach: $125.00 /hr
“Going market rate” is not a true measure of societal value.
The elephant in the room:
http://www.khanacademy.com
This will happen more and more — education from elementary up to Bachelor’s level available for free online. Other people will do similar things to what Salman Khan has done in other fields over the next few years.
Would we even need brick-and-mortar universities anymore after that? We might see universities shrink down to training only PhDs.
Duly noted Karl. However, unlike psychics, I actually do book regular daily business in dance classes to the point I can make a living on it, not just treat it like a hobby. AND I didn’t get a degree in “theater” or dance. I just (GASP) learned it! How is it possible to be a good dancer without a university sanctioned degree!?
Oh, wait, that’s right. I’m talented.
Keep trying Karl.
Look, I got no problem with you teaching ballroom dancing, and I don’t particularly give a crap how you learned to do it. And bully for you that you are talented! I’m almost as impressed with that fact as you are.
My problem is with your blanket statements about the humanities, especially when you exclude your own background on the basis that people sometimes hire economists. That is false logic. People also hire psychics, and yes, LOTS of them make a living at it. Some a very lucrative one. I see a hell of a lot more psychics making a living at it than dance instructors. What does that prove except the old saying about a fool and his money. The market does not determine the actual value of something. Only the monetary value.
I have a liberal arts background (history and anthropology) and it serves me very well in my chosen field, thank you very much. I have worked and paid taxes steadily since I left school. And yes, I agree that some of the newer fields of studies (women’s studies, etc) are loopy. And yes, the humanities only lay the groundwork for further, more specific training. And yes, there are probably too many liberal arts grads coming out these days. I know all of that.
But your hypocritical pedantic blanket condemnations of the humanities are getting boring. Especially when your own field of economics has I daresay a few graduates flipping burgers these days.
Karl,
Do you want me to address each individual where their personal situation may differ from the norm, or, since we’re talking about policy which must be applied on a macro, overall level, use blanketing statements that apply to the majority of people? I don’t have time to address each individual anthropology major that might actually be making it in the private sector and how for every one of them, there’s 4,000 anthropology majors flipping burgers or working as some make-work government job that doesn’t produce squat for society and is really only there as charity to employ the anthropology major.
Cap:
Nope. I don’t want you to address your argument to each individual. That is merely the flip side of making all inclusive statements about the valuelessness of whole academic disciplines. And making a clever quip about and entirely fictional scenario eg: offering to trade “sociologizing” for something of value) does not amount to a logical demonstration of your point. In all my time studying history, no prof ever told me that the goal was for me to find a job as a historian … as though that is the only thing a history degree could be good for. This is one of the ways that (for instance) an engineering program and a history program differ.
In your own field of economics for instance, the things one learns can serve them well in a wide variety of careers. I dare say that few who study economics ever gain the title “economist”.
Having said all of this, I do agree partially with your point. In the past few decades there has been too much of a push toward liberal arts degrees, and to university in general. And there has been too much of a push toward politically driven agendas in certain fields (eg: sociology), and the creation of dubious fields of study (women’s study, queer studies). And I also agree that there should be some conversation about the degree to which tax dollars are used to subsidize post secondary education.
Anyway, pax vobiscum. I actually agree with you more than I disagree about most things.
[LC Bennett @ 5:48 said: I’ll take a world designed by engineers and tradesman any day.]
If that’s the case, maybe a few more prerequisites in the liberal arts or humanities might not be such a bad idea for those in technical programs or trades:
Why do so many terrorists have engineering degrees?
http://www.slate.com/id/2240157/
Excerpts:
“…mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, Mohamed Atta, was an architectural engineer. Khalid Sheikh Mohamed got his degree in mechanical engineering. Two of the three founders of Lashkar-e-Taibi, the group believed to be behind the Mumbai attacks, were professors at the University of Engineering and Technology in Lahore.”
“…two sociologists, Diego Gambetta and Steffen Hertog…looked at more than 400 radical Islamic terrorists from more than 30 nations…. Earlier studies had shown that terrorists tend to be wealthier and better-educated than their countrymen, but Gambetta and Hertog found that engineers, in particular, were three to four times more likely to become violent terrorists than their peers in finance, medicine or the sciences. The next most radicalizing graduate degree, in a distant second, was Islamic Studies.”
“Even among Islamic terrorists born or raised in the West, nearly 60 percent had engineering backgrounds.”
“… a particular mind-set among engineers that disdains ambiguity and compromise. They might be more passionate about bringing order to their society and see the rigid, religious law put forward in radical Islam as the best way of achieving those goals. In online postings, Abdulmutallab expressed concern over the conflict between his secular lifestyle and more extreme religious views. “How should one put the balance right?” he wrote.”
“Terrorist organizations seem to have recognized this proclivity — in Abdulmutallab, obviously, but also among engineers in general. A 2005 report from British intelligence noted that Islamic extremists were frequenting college campuses, looking for “inquisitive” students who might be susceptible to their message. In particular, the report noted, they targeted engineers.”
[Irene Swain @ 10:59 said: …a quote from my favorite professor… “Question everything that I say, and never take my word as gospel, go out and research for yourself and then challenge me on it. No one in this world knows so much that they can’t be questioned, unless the Zombies are coming, in which case, trust me on this, don’t use a chainsaw, and never get trapped on the roof of a building.”]
You had a wise teacher, Irene.
[Ken (Kulak) @ 11:48 said: The Humanities need to be taken back from the Marxists.]
Well said. Agree completely.
[Karl @ 9:45 said:
The Captain: I will trade ballroom dancing lessons and a lecture on economics for your carpentry skills ….
The Carpenter: ummm … I’m kinda busy here …]
And the award for funniest post goes to…
Good one, Karl!
Captain, stick to economics and ballroom dancing. Your posts on these are typically bang-on.
Rants on matters related to policy and ideology…not so much.