I want an electrical engineer and computer programmer and a automechanic to make me a laptop, and I-Pad and a car, and in return I will give them “sociologicizing,” a “lecture on women’s studies,” and some “philosophizing.”
HT and explanation of how leftists don’t understand bartering here.
Here is a link that goes into the campus Free Speech on campus in the 60’s to the status of Indoctrine U to-day.
http://rightnetwork.com/episodes/860061587
The humanities were a valuable, no, a critical part of society before the rise of the academic Left. The social sciences, well, their value is more debatable.
One can easily educate oneself in “the humanities” with some voracious reading. You read Moby Dick, Dostoevsky and some Voltaire? Big deal! So did I. I’d even agree that it made me a wiser and better person but no one has ever given me a job because I can tell Bezukhov from Bolkonski or War from Peace for that matter.
The article suggests the need to “proclaim the value of liberal arts education loudly and often and at least try to make the powers that be understand what is being lost when traditions of culture and art that have been vital for hundreds and even thousands of years disappear from the academic scene.”
But the article avoids the elephant in the room about how and when the traditions were lost. They were gradually lost as tenured progressives with little diversity of thought dominated the pool of Professorships chosen for their groupthink worship of cultural relativism a la Noam Chomsky.
What we need to proclaim is that choice and diversity are necessary in a liberal arts education. Specifically, may we have Victor Davis Hansen teach us the classics instead of Noam?
Since when has it become an irrefutable law that university courses cannot go out of existence? What if the demand for those courses simply dries up because a culture considers them to be no longer sufficiently useful? This is no different than what happened to the buggy whip or horse harness industries.
Particularly arcane areas of study might be more feasibly taught online, provided that their cost reflected their value. There’s no way this could happen at most brick-and-mortar universities today, given their equally arcane work rules and seniority provisions that “lock in” outrageous costs for projects of little value.
I got a phd (piled higher and deeper) from the school of hard knocks. It has seved me well.
oh, the humanity….
It certainly appears to me that we could forgo 90% of the Humanities Department budget by handing out a reading list and a library card.
nomdeblog, very well put.
These victims of post-secondary downsizing should see the silver lining in this sad turn of events. For the first time in their pampered lives they will actually experience the hardship and unfairness they have only read about and taught to others. F-unemployment, right?
Ask an economist a question, don’t be surprised to get an economist’s answer. Captain, you routinely produce first-rate economic analysis and commentary. Odd, then, that you fail, here, to make simple distinctions between (1) what goods someone wants to purchase, and what else they may want, such as understanding of themselves, other things like them, their culture and its essential institutions, an understanding of which is necessary for one to flourish in any life but the hermit’s; (2) worse than worthless “disciplines”, like women’s studies, cultural studies—all the “studies”, in fact, and a discipline like philosophy without which our politics, law, education, and, yes, science itself, would be in far worse shape, and without which there would be no hope of saving from the destructive forces of lazy, self-indulgent relativism that reign on the left.
Wise up.
Right on, nomdeblog!
Humanities taught by Marxists/Islamists are certainly worthless — unless you’re a highly rebellious student who takes the opposite way of your geezer teachers as a matter of principle.
Hamanities classes with too many students who are utterly unsuited for post-secondary academic pursuits, who are merely hiding out from the real world, are certainly worthless.
Humanities courses in which everybody gets an A are certainly worthless.
Humanities classes which eschew critical thinking in favour of flat-out leftist indoctrination are certainly worthless.
But a world limited to science, engineering and technology would be a pretty dreary one, what?
Employers in Toronto love art degrees over anything practical. That is why our economy is going down the tubes.
The crisis in the Humanities has arrived because
the people in the Humanities have betrayed themselves
and their students. BTW, even the term “humanities”
is a relatively recent coinage.
Instead of teaching classics, history, and philosophy in an unbiased way, which are subjects of
definite value, they have chosen politically correct folderol and non subjects such as the “social sciences”. No Victor Davis Hanson, not even
Michel Foucault (though as a writer on sex he is esteemed; but he was well educated and his soi-disant followers mostly aren’t) except much watered down.
Erasing our history and culture will leave us all Hottentots; but it is much more
the faculty in the Humanities than those in engineering and the sciences, and even academic administrators, who are wielding the erasers.
We differ from the Great Apes in our ability to transmit knowledge and perhaps even a little wisdom from one generation to the next,
with efficiency. With that gone, hey, pass the bananas!
I want an electrical engineer and computer programmer and a automechanic to make me a laptop, and I-Pad and a car, and in return I will teach them
how propaganda works and how it preys upon their naive and good-natured credulity.
I will teach them what constitutes force beyond the material part; I will teach them how to make war and when they must make war.
Such are the principal benefits of education in
history, classics, and even to some extent political science and philosophy.
I remember quite clearly back my Engineering U days, the way the “Humanities” was embraced as a way of rounding out our educational experience – not!
While the Humanities per say, are of some merit, the only folks that can get ahead with such a degree are those destined to teach said subjects.
Humanities courses are valuable, but their value decreases in direct proportion to the number of people who study them. There was a time when a high school diploma was a relative rarity and a university degree even more so. But in those days a person with a high school diploma was qualified and able to do the vast majority of jobs, now an awful lot of jobs require a university degree for no more reason that our high schools suck and employers can ask for it to weed out a lot of applicants. Its just too bad that you now have to invest tens of thousands of dollars to get the kind of jobs our parents had out of high school.
I am not against education. I have two college diplomas ( and a relatively highly paid job) I have taken university courses for fun as an adult. I take college art courses for fun. I just think that we are being screwed by the education industry.
The study of Quantum Mechanics originated because a few physicists asked the question “why do some materials glow with different colours when heated?” Imagine if funding to research this rather mundane question had been cut by short-sited politicians that saw no immediate benefit from it. It is estimated that 40% of the GDP in the USA is built on science using quantum mechanics (lasers, semiconductors, etc …)
How much media do you think you consume that is created from people trained with these “worthless” degrees?
Right on, Me No D and John Lewis!
@ John Lewis:
Yes,… we have no bananas today!
“Yes, we have no bananas
We have-a no bananas today.
Just try those coconuts
Those wall-nuts and doughnuts
There ain’t many nuts like they.
We’ll sell you two kinds of red herring,
Dark brown, and ball-bearing.
But yes, we have no bananas
We have no bananas today.”
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
Contrast: “And when I say “explain,” I should add aggressively explain — taking the bull by the horns…refusing to allow myths (about lazy, pampered faculty who work two hours a week”
With: “With little notice, he called a town hall meeting for Friday afternoon, Oct. 1, when he could be sure that almost no academic personnel would be hanging around.”
Phil @3:17, a good question…
I hate to quibble but I am troubled by this phrase: “Imagine if funding to research this rather mundane question had been cut by short-sited politicians”
Much of the problem with higher education originates with nanny state care & attention. Government funded research is usually an oxymoron.
I suspect the Captain is a student of the philosophies of Smith, Hakek & Friedman and can help us understand how this research would have occurred anyway.
Don’t get me wrong, I did a history minor and took a ton of classics and literature courses in my undergraduate degree. And I enjoyed them and I think they’ve made me a much more well-educated individual. I think they’re important and that we all lose if they go. But I take umbrage to the arrogance of professors and student who count themselves guardians of culture, sniffing their noses at others and proclaiming “you’re not SUPPOSED to understand it! You just need to pay for it!”
No demand, no supply. And it seems that was the case at this university.
Basically, we need to let the free market decide what subjects are appropriate for academic study, in what venue, and at what price. Governments should stay out of the field altogether.
There is nothing wrong with liberal arts. Our Students SHOULD be learning classics, languages and literature. All these can give them a grounding in western culture and civilisation. If our students do not learn this, their opinions will be formed by MTV and pop culture.
What we do NOT need are the sociology, political science, womens studies, queer theroy etc. The problem is, they will cut out Socrates and Shakespeare and teh other DWMS and use the money so students can study Rigaberta Menchu or Ward Churchill.
Temmy, you are right. The current attack on the humanities—it really is an attack; lots of programs being eliminated around the anglosphere—is motivated by the self interest of the managerial class—You know them. They want to run your life for you. Sometimes go by the description “statist”—they use students’ wants, not their needs, as the criterion for course and program viability, and then, surprise, surprise, eliminate those programs that cost more than their tuition bring in. Notice which programs get the axe: not the cultural studies programs, ’cause students like them: you don’t even need two brain cells to rub together to “ace” those courses. They get rid of Classics, History, Philosophy—the Greats. Kills two birds with one stone: more money to spend on themselves; a lot more stupid people around who know no history, literature, philosophy, and so on—the underpinnings of our culture.
It is the political class, and now the managerial class that are destroying one of our most valuable institutions: the university.
I don’t have a problem with the humanities or languages. In fact, I would insist that teachers tuck into Plato or the Bronte sisters more than the “big” Harry Potter books. People no longer have a command of the English language (particularly the richness of it) the way they used to in generations past. Literature, philosophy and theology offer mirrors into our own behaviours.
However, the market calls for more practical skill-sets (trade work, medicine, engineering, ect.). We cannot pretend that a liberal arts degree has the same merit as a nursing degree (for example) because it doesn’t. Nor can we overlook the importance of trades. We also need to get over this idea that simply because someone works in a factory that they are not doing anything useful. A guy who wields carries more heft that some whiny white girl who spews out pre-read ideas of how bad white men are.
Everything needs an overhaul.
Just my thoughts.
An economist lecturing us on “useless” degrees. Sweet.
Since when did conservatives believe that every human endeavour be judged according to how much it contributes to the GDP of a country? Are we all utilitarians now?
The hostility toward idiots who complain that their black american studies degree can’t land them a job is one thing but a general hostility toward teaching literature, history, language, and art is another…
Me no D’ said “But a world limited to science, engineering and technology would be a pretty dreary one, what?”
It’s those things that give us the environment and ability to pursue the more artsy things in life. Without them we would be sitting in the dark having farting competitions for entertainment. It seems the people riding the gravy train keep forgetting who is paying for their freight. Tail wagging the dog so to speak.
“An economist lecturing us on “useless” degrees. Sweet.”
Thanks, slaw. I respect and admire the work of those who do “practical” things, but I don’t want to live in a world of their design, nor am I kissing their butts as the salvation of humanity. Get over yourself. captain, you’re getting tiresome.
Phil,
There is a world of difference between studying humanities, and performing pure unadultered research.
Research for the sake of knowing will expand mankinds knowledge, and perhaps, find a pratical application.
Humanities tends to be a lot of navel gazing and proselytizing.
Me no D’ said “But a world limited to science, engineering and technology would be a pretty dreary one, what?”
Gord said…It’s those things that give us the environment and ability to pursue the more artsy things in life.
Exactly. That’s why we need both.
A liberal arts degree could be valid again if we purged the progressives teaching it or at least got half of our Professors to think in terms of the rights of individuals versus the collective.
Specifically they should acknowledge that Plato was a utopian and instead of that fantasy we need to understand and follow Aristotle.
We are already in a world of continuous learning and a liberal arts degree, not taught by utopians, can provide an excellent grounding to launch into the world and discover its riches on many levels.
The collective knowledge of our middle class can compete with any elitist entity on earth if we liberate it and free up individual innovation. Perpetual education is the key.
OTOH, who would want to live in a world designed by modern Humanities and Social Science profs. I mean take a look at the university world – intolerant to diversity of thought, illiberal speech codes, etc. How about rampant hypocrisy like the wage gap between deans/profs/grads and the rigid hierarchy. They rarely, if ever, do academics practice what they preach.
I’ll take a world designed by engineers and tradesman any day. In fact, many of the first and greatest philosophers had strong math and science tendencies.
“Let no one destitute of geometry enter my doors.”
When too many people become carpenters, you have a lack of plumbers.
It is really that simple and that is why “humanities” intellectuals do not get it.
comments from the link so far:
4 comments:
Anonymous said…
Last I checked, economics was in the humanities… lol. Just sayin’ is all.
10:34 AM
Anonymous said…
Humanities produces the least stupid graduates. It’s a curriculum that really does weed out the fake intellectuals from the real. That said, there’s no doubt they’re not great for gdp.
11:31 AM
Mark Adams said…
Bah! go to the sushi restaurant, and you’ll see plenty of humanities majors involved in making your food.
11:35 AM
Anonymous said…
You think nobody would say: go to a movie or buy a book or buy some music?
What’s the point of having an Ipad without interesting content on it? Where the best content is being produced by people that very likely have humanities degrees.
How about xbox games designed by people with no artistic or storytelling skills?
I object to dumbing down any subject matter. (Some places would teach astrology and consider it on par with astronomy). But my life and our culture would be poorer without its works of art, literature etc. If I had not read 1984, and if others had not read it, there would be a lack of common vocabulary to discuss what is going on in our world today. Many of these works were not produced in Academia, but they have been studied and mulled over because they were part of a curriculum somewhere. Not everyone is connected enough to stumble on such works on their own.
However, as the whole system dumbs itself down, there are all sorts of surplus PhD’s around who need to publish, teach and earn a living. They can’t make their mark any other way but to carve out a niche for themselves and gather up acolytes. It’s a bit like Socrates in the Agora, except that it’s not. And Socrates paid a price that most academics would not.
I wonder if it’s because the production part of our society is so efficient. We have all these surplus folks who have nothing better to do than chew mental cud (without much fiber in it) and dispense their puny thoughts in classes that attach themselves to the universities like barnacles onto a pier.
“which do not earn their keep”
That phrase pretty much explains it all.
Phil asks: “How much media do you think you consume that is created from people trained with these “worthless” degrees?”
That, for once, is an -excellent- question.
The answer is, in my case, not very much. I don’t watch TV, listen to radio, or see many movies anymore, because over the last five years or so the MSM has engaged in a race to the bottom, creating essentially intolerable crap I refuse to pay for.
That’s the direct result of the deterioration in academic life, where Marxism has pushed out virtually all else.
So no wonder SUNY is shutting these departments. How many cranky old hippies does one really need to keep up the indoctrination factory anyway?
I know where some of the surplus goes, Rita. Straight into the Human Resources department of successful businesses. Once there they “attach themselves to the productive business like barnacles onto a pier”. Soon after, field workers spend exponentially more time filling out paperwork and HR surveys, going to diversity/conflict/anti-harassment/personal development training and then having meetings to talk about previous meetings. Productivity decreases, costs increase, middle management and office staff becomes bloated while employee morale takes a nosedive.
There is a vast differnece between choping French etc than chopping “womens studies”.
That said I fail to see any great value in studying the “great French philosophers”….their product France is not much of a role model….
French philosophy transformed the descendants of Napolean’s Grande Armee, who held at the Verdun to the “ready, aim, flee” assembly of 1940….whose descendants now tolerate Islamofascist carBQ’s.
Tsun Tsu and Von Clauswitz are philosopher enough for me.
Ginsburg????Are you serious???
“Ginsburg????Are you serious???”
He was a pretty clever guy but he’s no Yeats. Unfortunately the left have decided that the writers they liked growing up are equal to the great writers of the past. Hence you can take Bob Dylan courses or music courses dissecting the works of the Grateful Dead because of course the are “relevant”. Not like dead white guys like Bach or Dickens. Talent is secondary to feelings with these folks. As LC Bennet points out these people have infected Human Resources departments doing their utmost to not hire the most qualified candidate.
LC Bennett (6:55 pm) your comment revived a migraine I thought I had left behind, when I left the world of motivational speakers, fake team-building hugs, and mission statements–all designed to make me a happy little peon doing my bit. Ow. Ow. (You’re absolutely right of course.)
Oh my, how precious:
“The fault, dear Stanley, is in our narrow, stale preconceptions. The truth is that American businesses today don’t know what to do with smart people & smart people don’t know what to do with themselves.”
Yes, dear. Smart people never take engineering degrees, you’re right. They prefer to major in Comparative Gobbledygook and work at Mickey D’s…
I was amazed to read that line as well mojo. It reminded me of Nietzsche claiming that criminals were the last true geniuses. One doesn’t even know where to start with that kind of logic. Unfortunately there are lots of people who find statements like that deep and enlightened. Apparently they all have government jobs as well.
nomdeblog @ 1:44, 5:30
sasquatch said “Tsun Tsu and Von Clauswitz are philosopher enough for me”. Great thought. This reminds me of an expression I heard once. Engineers and generals build countries, lawyers and politicians destroy them.
The Humanities need to be taken back from the Marxists.
Hmm … bartering:
The Captain: I will trade ballroom dancing lessons and a lecture on economics for your carpentry skills ….
The Carpenter: ummm … I’m kinda busy here ….
People who are passionately dedicated to the study of niche subjects (e.g. philosophy, sociology, “Womyn’s” studies, dance, etc.) should feel free to fund their own private universities. When productive taxpayers (many of whom haven’t had the privilege of going to university) are coerced into footing the bill for vanity degrees, it is effectively a redistribution of hard-earned money from productive to mostly unproductive people. Few things anger me more than the interminable protests by humanities/arts students (engineering and science students are busy working and studying) demanding lower tuition (i.e. higher subsidies) and whining about student debt.
To paraphrase that great thinker of our time, Al Bundy: “You’re getting a philosophy degree? Great! I hear they’re hiring down at the philosophy factory.”
Speaking as a university graduate with a degree in Classical History, there is not a single fact in my degree that I feel I will ever use in my current occupation as a researcher. Everything useful that I took from my degree is abstract skills, research, writing, and keeping my mouth shut when I want to tell someone to go get their head examined.
There are some intelligent people in humanities, who take it for the right reasons. They are the ones who acknowledge that they probably aren’t ever going to get a job where knowing that Marcellus was the adoptive son of Augustus and he died young, which meant that Tiberius took control of Rome, is of any use whatsoever.
Some (I’m qualifying people! Some, not all!) humanities courses come in extremely handy because they teach people to view things from outside the box, to go on long hunts in dusty libraries for information or to connect the dots and find new solutions to common problems. Many people nowadays can’t be arsed to analyze, research, or confirm facts for themselves, and even people in humanities have an annoying tendency to take a professor’s word as gospel. The ones who deserve to take it, and the ones who deserve to teach it, are the ones who use what they’ve learned to go confirm every fact for themselves, and to see both sides of every argument, even if they don’t agree with it.
The thing that stuck with me most when I was in university was a quote from my favorite professor, if it weren’t for her, I probably would have been part of the 60% that never bothered to finish: “Question everything that I say, and never take my word as gospel, go out and research for yourself and then challenge me on it. No one in this world knows so much that they can’t be questioned, unless the Zombies are coming, in which case, trust me on this, don’t use a chainsaw, and never get trapped on the roof of a building.”
If I may defend economics and ballroom dancing;
Economics is actually one of the few “humanities” that has practical application in the real world/private sector that private companies willingly hire.
Ballroom dancing, to a plumber, yes, there would probably not be a market for barter. However, using the going market rate I charge for ballroom dancing ($120/hr), I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume that’s more than the average humanities major makes.
I can’t help it I’m smart AND talented. ;P