As the rest of the world speculates which bank/country/continent will require another bailout, Canada serves as a “shining” example on how to escape the debt spiral, Jim O’Neill, chief economist at Goldman Sachs, told CNBC on Tuesday.
“It’s easy to say every developed country has problems – but Canada doesn’t,” O’Neill said.
The country – home to 32 million people – had its “own severe debt problems, and yet demonstrated that you can undertake supply-side structural reforms” successfully.
[…]
Canada “is a shining example to the rest of the world,” on how to bounce back from the recession, O’Neill said.
It avoided the sharp downturn other major advanced nations endured by limiting leverage, protecting consumers, and avoiding excessive deregulation of their financial industry.
… the question is … who to thank? Martin … Harper … both?
You can thank “some” of the provinces….and premiers like Ralph Klein
I would thank God we never elected an NDP federal government.
When we have a govt that will spend a billion on hosting a bunch of world leaders who have squandered their money and everyone elses,then Canada is not far behind.We are a nation of exporters and who sells to countries that have no money.
PET Cemetery Board:
We, PET Liberals all, vote for Paul Martin Jr.
Da record speaks da proof. Viva Paul.
…-
“Gomery Adscam
Gomery Commission, adscam, blog, inquiry, jean Lafleur, groupaction, paul martin, Jean Chretien, liberal, money laundering, corruption, theft”
http://www.canadafreepress.com/gomery-adscam.htm
“The war on the civil service – Canada – Macleans.ca **
Public service is grossly over valued, it needs to cut costs one way or another – Chretien and Paul Martin cut military and laid off thousands of employees, wether you are a”
www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/03/the-war-on-the-civil-service
“Paul Martin, illegally stole 30 billion out of 18 pension funds of federal employees, before which his (not mine) federal government took a contribution holiday.”
http://www.capebretonpost.com/ Politics/ 2009-10-05/ article-776482/ Paul-Martin-says-Conservatives-need-clear-exit-strategy-for-deficit/
Thank Martin – without question. As finance minister, Martin erased a $42 billion deficit, recorded five consecutive budget surpluses, and paid down $36 billion of national debt.
I’m very concerned that Harper is seeing an opening in the center left and drifting into it while conservatives cheer because “at least it is not the Lieberals”.
We should not overlook the good work that Mr. Martin did as Finance Minister. Our government should be building on this foundation, not spending like the little guy from Shawinigan.
Paul on the backs of the provinces Martin.
I thank Preston Manning.
Manning and the Reform party did more to move Canadaian attitudes towards fiscal responsibilty than anyone else.
Martin balancing the budget was the effect, not the cause.
Three words:
oil, gas, potash
Travis: Manning and Harper were argueing for “deregulation” of the Canuck banking system back then. Had their advise been taken, our banks would’ve been on the rocks with the rest.
… but they did preach debt reduction and government shrinkage.
The fact that Canada was at risk of losing it’s Triple A credit rating was a major motivator. Paul Martin did indeed act on that (and yes, he simply downloaded to the provinces so he isn’t quite a saint). Preston Manning had been driving a move in that direction for years and people were listening. If it wasn’t for dough heads like Joe Clark, Manning might have had a better shot at making it stick. But guess what? There’s only one taxpayer, so those who actually generate wealth and pay taxes as opposed to living off the teat can pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
Travis, utter rubbish. The moment of truth was the threatened downgrading of Canadian government securities in 1994 which triggered the fiscal restraint policy. It was begun under the Mulroney administration of trying to limit the deficit to a proportion of GDP, and it was the Mulroney administration which put in the two huge tax measures which paid it down: de-indexing the income tax brackets and introducing the GST. THOSE along with cuts to provincial transfer payments were what killed the deficit.
cjunk is quite right; presto and the gang were calling for bank deregulation at the time. It was foolish then and sheer madness in the current context.
Ron, no it wasn’t just all on the backs of the provinces. It was a two-part strategy and the bigger part was raising taxes. The de-indexing has a multiplier effect over the years. At first the revenue increase is small, but slowly but surely inflation increases the income tax paid in as more and more people are pushed into higher income tax brackets.
Maz, if you think a lousy one-time $30 billion was going to solve Canada’s chronic deficit problems in the 1990s, you really don’t understand the scale of the problem. It was so huge that everyone had to take a hit. And that’s the torture the Euros are now going to go through.
And it will be ugly.
Martin was threatened into balancing federal budgets by the IMF who were prepared to either limit credit or have their associate members sell Canadian debt to sleazier credit interest in order to cover their nervousness over Canada’s ability to manage the interest on our national debt.
Martin downloaded the requisite austerity measures to the provinces by defunding fed supplements to health care and other fed provincial subsidies. After Martin, Harper let the provinces continue their own belt tightening by chopping more redundant subsidy and making payments on the debt principle.
In the larger picture we dodged the melt down bullet by Harper chosing a Von Mises school BoC Governor who got us out of US dollars and other weak currencies we held as reserve, before the melt down.
The looney is strong and our financial system is still largely sovereign. This is what saved us, we had less dependency on weak currency and sleazy lenders.
Speaking of scum, It was revealed this week Goldman Sachs sold over 4.68 million shares of British Petroleum stock just two days prior to the explosion of the British Petroleum drilling platform. This sell-off of petroleum stock is now recognized as the largest single liquidation of petroleum stocks in the history of modern markets.
While I don’t think we’re going to melt down as quickly as other nations, we should be careful about pinning a star to our chests. Even with our protections, mortgage defaults will soar if the interest rate goes above five percent. We’re not free and clear yet.
Mark Carney. He’s the guy responsible for making sure the Canadian banking system remains functional.
If nothing else, the Gulf oil spill has clearly demonstrated (to even the dullest utopian socialists) that the government and politicians are not the ultimate experts in everything … they just say they are.
You people are missing the Big Picture.
So, Canada is 3% of the world’s economy. We’ve done well, so far. What happens when the world’s economy crashes, as it certainly looks that way despite all the effort expended to prevent that from happening? Ours dosen’t, too? Half the Canadian population lives in the rust belt of Ontario & Quebec and will need bailouts from the ROC to keep EI/welfare running there, until the “world” gets back on it’s economic feet.
Add to that a major Middle eastern war against Isreal, including with a NATO country Turkey and nobody will be able to afford oil, or in some cases get it after the middle eastern oil fields are destroyed.
Think that 4000 mile “undefended” boundary will stop the US from walking right in and taking what they need? Or the Russians occupy some of “our” Arctic islands? Who’s gonna stop ’em? the Canadian Forces? They’ll be stuck in Astan if not outright slaughtered there.
Canadians are more preoccupied with concerns that our little kid’s soccer teams might lose if they win too well against their opponents. All those dead Canadians scattered across Europe wasted their lives if that is the end result of their efforts.
Wars are fought on our “playing fields”. We certainly aren’t instilling a “will to win” in our kids minds. They will be poorly equiped mentally for the “Big Bad World” that comes after this next go-round.
In historical order
1) Brian Mulroney and Michael Wilson
– For eliminating the operational deficit the government had and bringing in the GST, which pees cash
2) Preston Manning for carrying the fight forward and helping keep the deficit as a big issue that had to be addressed
3) Jean Chretien and Paul martin, for breaking their promise to eliminate the GST and running an effcive review of government spending…the GST was more important though
4) Stephen Harper, for keeping the deficits at bay till side swiped by the recession, while lowering taxes. He deserves a slap though for letting government spending expand at too quick a rate, but not as much of a slap as the Libs and NDP who only criticized not spending more.
Success has many fathers.
3)Preston Manning
Canada patting itself on the back about this is like Prince Charles congratulating himself on his business acumen. Canada was blessed with natural resources and a low population which is like being born into a huge inheritance. And even with this massive inheritance Canada still cannot defend its own sovereignty, unless of course you want to fire welfare checks and wealth transfers instead of bullets.
Let’s get something straight here. Canada has an extractive economy. Saudi Arabia and Venezuela also have the same types of economies.
The United States as well as most Euro countries have additive economies. It is a much harder slog to by raw materials, and turn it into something of value than it is to run to the ATM and take out some trust fund money.
You ask who do we thank Martin or Harper for our prosperity? I think you are looking at it all wrong. We did it despite Martin and Harper and their political hacks.
Thank God for your properity. No politician or even the Canadian people has created the wealth that Canada enjoys.
Any idiot can dig a hole in the ground, extract the booty and then sell the raw material for a profit.
You should thank America too, seeing as how Canada does not have to spend Trillions on a Military Budget. And you better thank us quick before Barry gives it all away.
cgh, you don’t think Manning’s focus on fiscal responsibilty affected Canadian attitudes? I do. And I also think that change in attitudes made Martin’s balancing of the budget politically possible.
Both Martin and Harper deserve some credit for not screwing it up yet, but most of the credit goes to Preston Manning the only real conservative Canada has seen in over half a century. Why are the Conservatives so afraid to be conservative? Why did the CBC and the rest of the MSM not consider this story worthy of reporting? Why did I just ask such a stupid question?
“Thank God for your properity. No politician or even the Canadian people has created the wealth that Canada enjoys.”
What makes you think our resources haven’t been used as collateral to float extentions on debt service or principle depletion?
Canada barely manages to pay interest and service charges on its debt. Our principle debt sits at 1/2 Trillion which represents 72.3% of our GDP. THat puts us in the top 20 debtor nations and ahead of th UK in productivity to debt default ratios.
We are not out of the woods yet by any means kids.
“Any idiot can dig a hole in the ground, extract the booty and then sell the raw material for a profit.”
total drivel
” Goldman Sachs sold over 4.68 million shares of British Petroleum stock just two days prior to the explosion of the British Petroleum drilling platform.”
Got a link?
What makes you think our resources haven’t been used as collateral to float extentions on debt service or principle depletion
What makes you think that these resources belong to you? These resources are the private property of the Crown. That means they belong to Her Royal Majesty, Queen of a foreign nation, Elizabeth II. This treasure is administered by her Royal Majesty’s government.
You are a subject of the Queen, and a ward of the State. You are hereby commanded to avert your gaze.
Being told this by the chief economist of Goldman Sachs is like having Satan compliment you on your upstanding moral character.
“ing as how Canada does not have to spend Trillions on a Military Budget.”
Although thanks IS in order, not bolstering our military appropriately has hurt our economy not helped it. If I was more cynical I could say that America has enabled Canadians to spend money on social programs that contribute ziltch to the economy as opposed to military spending that benefits Canadians from coast to coast.
As the headline in Mark Steyn’s latest MacLeans magazine article states:
Turning swords into welfare cheques.
“You should thank America too, seeing as how Canada does not have to spend Trillions on a Military Budget.”
~Ratt
Disagree.
It’s a myth that America protects Canada.
America just protects itself and Canada may or may not be a beneficiary.
Imagine a Canada without an America,
1. You would lose 75% of all your trade including your precious natural resources. And before you say that you could sell to China instead, who do you think props up China by buying it’s products.
2. Canada would have been invaded and parceled out already by Russia and China or invaded and annexed by Hitler and Japan.
3. Canadians would be like the “courier du bois”, hauling water, hewing wood, and of course toiling in Der Kommisar’s mines.
“Imagine a Canada without an America”
There is such a thing as reality, deal with it.
China doesn’t have the naval power to invade even Taiwan and an American state called Alaska exists between Canada and Russia.
Can’t sell resources to China, India is an up-and-coming economic power with legs that China doesn’t have because they didn’t have a One Child per Family birth policy.
A couple of esoteric but relevant points…Paul Martin’s DM (Kevin Lynch) when he was M. Finance moved on to the IMF in DC, before returning as Clerk of the PCO under Mr. Harper..I’ve been told that Lynch was Martin’s parting gift for the new PM. And, Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of Canada is a former Goldman Sachs managing director. So for better or worse it may be worth thanking the “old boys network” for us dodging the global financial bullet.
And the re is a soveriegn state between China and Taiwan, its called the USS George H. W. Bush supercarrier.
We still have way too much debt. Our european style entitlement programs will bury us. We will be like Greece eventualy.
Then there is our housing bubble:
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/05/hosed-in-canada-housing-crash-is-given.html
How about we end equalization, enact a flat 20% incoime tax (eliminate the CRA at the same time) and end about 90% of the government departments that we currently have. These are all basicly welfare schemes that cut checks to failed industries, individuals and local governments.
It avoided the sharp downturn other major advanced nations endured by limiting leverage, protecting consumers, and avoiding excessive deregulation of their financial industry.
THEN he goes on to say:
All this talk of euro is a bit silly,” O’Neill said.
I know you love the kudos, but from this guy?
What would your economy look like if oil was $30-40.00 a barrel the past few years?
I remember when the US (and most states) had a surplus in 1999 when the NASDAQ was at 5000. People were making money in the market like crazy and even the pols couldn’t spend it all. Oh how we congratulated each other for our fiscal responsibilty. Then the bubble burst and we’ve been running a deficit ever since.
Your huge resources are wonderful. Don’t let them give the pols an excuse to endlessly expand their power.
“And the re is a soveriegn state between China and Taiwan, its called the USS George H. W. Bush supercarrier.”
~KPD
Well I guess Taiwan owes the U.S. a debt of gratitude, then.
Canada, not so much.
Did you forget to imagine that America didn’t exist?
tisk, tisk.
Pssst, Dan:
Once Quebec leaves, we’ll be just fine.
In the meantime, I agree. Cut off the equalization programs.
“Imagine a Canada without an America,”
And if my grandma had wheels she’d be a wheelchair!
Sorry KPD, but OZ has it right, you can get off your high-horse regarding economics and defence. In fact, by chastising Canada and claiming that Canada’s success rests on the backs of Americans is reminiscent of another American I can think of. Quite frankly, America’s economic and foreign policy of late , and it’s two-faced-double-talking-stabbing-allies-publicly-in-the-back seems par for the course for America, and it’s QUITE EMBARRASSING.
It’s quite clear KPD that you got exactly the right President , you’re peas in a pod.
I would thank Preston Manning and the Reform Party. They showed the Liberal Goverment/Paul Martin that Candains wanted a balanced budget. Ok so Alberta did.
Only as much as it pains me we do have to thank Mr. Martin who capped spending and waited for the GDP to out grow the debt.
Yeah, let’s thank the LPC for ending the deficit spending the LPC started in the first place to fund all those socialist policies THEY implemented and the invasions into provincial jurisdiction which the 1867 Confederation Act precludes.
Paul Martin is not my hero because I don’t have battered wife syndrome.
Canada would not exist for even a second without the USA. Get off my high horse? Canada is a wholly owned by-product of the wealth and benevolence of the greatest nation to grace God’s earth. We as Americans let you live there. Canada produces virtually nothing except raw materials! The manufacturing and service sectors are artificial and puny. On the other hand your agricultural sector is impressive, but remember all that wheat goes to feed China so they may enrich the USA.
Yes, this is economic reality.
“We as Americans let you live there.”
Jeeze Louise.
Thank you America for being a decent neigbour and not engaging in home invasion since 1812.
Sorry we had to burn Washington down that time but you were out of your mind and at our throat.
Oh, and thanks for buying the stuff we sold to you that you wouldn’t have bought if you didn’t need it and often don’t buy, like softwood lumber, when you don’t.
KPD, you need to read the book, “The Ugly American”.
Steven is right on – there are many to thank, but I tip my hat to Mulroney for the GST (which does pee money) as well as Manning who pressed the issue of deficit/debt until Cretien and Martin, after campaigning for expanding programs and services and government, finally had to act. If it wasn’t for Manning, the Liberals would have continued to spend, spend, spend in the great Liberal tradition of never seeing a government program they didn’t like.
You may be right KPD.
Yeah, it’s too bad that South Korea, Georgia and Israel don’t share a boarder with America, eh?
We burned down the White House once so mind what you wish for!
Whatcha gonna do anyway if we invade? Give us free healthcare? Pay for my kids school? How about citizenship for every Canadian that caps an American on his own property?
Yup, America’s verrrry scarrrry.
Honestly, Canadians are more worried about contracting whatever America’s got, than hoping whatever America’s got rubs off on us.
Oz, are you taking credit for something England did? Who lost that war anyway? Are you doing this because you have no collective accomplishments of your own? Are you a flea arguing over who owns the dog?
Don’t get me wrong, I love Canada and Canadians in particular and I even used to be one. But when I get boastful about the US, it is from a strong position of actual and tangible acts. America invents and innovates everything. Canada innovates nothing and invents nothing. America produces 60% of all the goods and services on Earth. Our economy is more than half of the worlds economy. IT comes from freedom and liberty and hard work and investment and innovation and risk taking and putting you money where your mouth is.
We keep the entire world safe, including Canada because that is who we are and what we do. We do it without looking for thanks.
With the exception of your meager sacrifice in Afghanistan, could you name for me some worldly accomplishments of Canadians? Any great acts performed despite world opinion by Canadians? Any great inventions or innovations used around the world? Can you name for me any civil disobedient act by Canadians against tyrannical government? Do your airwaves beam out a plethora of ideas from all points of view or are they all strictly controlled by the CRTC? Are you free to open a liquor store or a beer store? Are you free to purchase a gun for self-defense? Are you free to open a retail book store, newspaper or television station without government interference? Are you free to insult the religion of a douchebag Canadian hating Muslim without fear of government criminal reprisal? Are you free to elect your own Chief Executive? Are you free to elect your own Head of State? Are you free to elect your own Provincial Premiers? Are you free to elect your own Senators? Are you a free citizen or a subject of a foreign monarch?
Just asking.
“… the question is … who to thank? Martin … Harper … both?”
Travis (11:5) is right
If you want to balance a budget (or make any hard decision), you have 4 jobs:
1. Know what to do – which takes analysis
2. Convince the public – persuasion
3. Do it – balls
4. Implement – competence
With Canada’s debt, we figured out the right thing to do on Mulroney’s watch. Preston Manning took care of the sales job. Credit for doing it goes to Cretien. Martin takes credit for implementation.
Since Manning was Cretien’s only plausible political threat, and He was a clear deficit-cutter, Manning ensured that doing the right thing was politically risk-free.
The part that was botched was the implementation.
“Pssst, Dan:
Once Quebec leaves, we’ll be just fine.
In the meantime, I agree. Cut off the equalization programs.
Posted by: set you free at June 4, 2010 1:58 PM”
I have always said we should call Quebec’s bluff and hold our own referendum to kick them out of Confederation. Watch how fast they sign on the dotted line.
Can you just imagine all the land claims etc. that would fall out of that. Not to mention the interest payments on the invoice for their portion of the national debt.
Who to thank? Many forget that part of what drove Mulroney and Bush Sr out of office was extremely high interest rates brought on by the world’s central banks to kill inflation. Those high rates also killed jobs and people were understandably upset. But that pain set the stage for Chrétien and Clinton to look good as they reaped the benefits.
In Canada’s case we had $600 billion in debt. Remember mortgage rates quickly dropping in the early 90’s from 15% to 5%? Think of that 10% savings on $600 billion in debt = $60 billion in savings. Presto the budget balanced. Plus the additional benefits from the political pain Mulroney endured by bringing in the GST and NAFTA.
The Chrétien and Martin contribution was to download Heath Care to the Provinces and then with the help of the MSM they blamed Mike Harris and Ralph Klein.
Travis
You win. Without the push of Reform, headed by Preston. The liberals would have never reined in spending. Even plundering UI to do it.
Martin was kept campaigning so long because of Chretien’s legacy tour. It was not touched. Than we got Harper who has been reasonable till fear entered his heart with the Coup try. Than he went stupid too. Fortunately not as bad as he could have.
Harper the Fox has kept a good Treasury. An exception being this dumb meeting, where nothing is done & big wigs pretend to matter.
JMO