143 Replies to “46 Handshakes”

  2. montagnoso- your comments are purely rhetorical; that is, they are words without content.
    You wrote: “President Obama has upheld America’s traditional values. He has done nothing to denigrate anyone. His commendable efforts to restore and maintain peace around the world has been mischaracterized by those who do not want peace, but a reason – any reason to create conflict”.
    Could you move out of the rhetoric and provide some factual evidence for each statement?
    1) How has Obama upheld traditional values? He has rejected the free speech of people, chastizing them for their Town Halls, Tea Parties, chastizing anyone who criticizes him.
    He has denigrated the power of the people by denigrating the people’s representation, Congress, with his insistence that Congress pass bills without reading or debating them.
    These are some of the anti-American things he has done. Could you explain and justify your opinion?
    2) He has insulted the UK and French Leaders; he has insulted Americans who criticize him. He insulted the Cambridge police; he insulted rural Americans; ..just a few of his denigrations.
    3)Efforts to restore peace? It will be due to him that Iran gets a nuclear weapon.
    Note that Obama utterly ignored the Iranian demonstrations in favour of democracy, choosing instead to side with the dictator.
    Note how he sided with Zelaya of Honduras in his attempt to sidestep the Honduran constitution; Obama ignored the constitution of Honduras.
    What efforts to restore peace? When? Where?
    Could you provide some facts for your rhetoric on these issues, as well as some facts that ground your assertion of his ‘wisdom, intelligence and graciousness’.

  3. “intelligence, wisdom and graciousness” all nice words, impressive actually.
    But one other thing about them they do not apply to Obama’s results thus far, IMHO.
    On the domestic front he’s already unable or unwilling to admit that an attack by the very same forces that NATO and his country are at war with attacked and killed innocents a US Army base.
    What other measure can be used to judge this guy’s actions so far? His written words on CD’s? His frequent use of national TV spotlights to chase any current criticism, his handlers starting a pissing media war with the only opposing news network, FOX or his followers doing sneaky things like brainwashing small children though a national highly viewed tv children’s program…(gee now where have I heard of this being done, *cough* was it in Palestine?)
    It’s like anything that slights or lowers the American image internationally, Obama will do it. Continuing to do so is hurting though…Dems are bleeding seats at this point. To an outsider, his disdain and outright disrespect for anything that represents conservative or civic tradition of America is obvious.

  4. Years ago my Dad bought a “Drinking Bird”. It was a glass tube with a bulb on each end. The tube was partially filled with coloured fluid and mounted with one end higher than the other. On the upper end was a coating of felt in the shape of a birds head. If you dipped the bird’s head in water it would swing upright but as the water evaporated from the head the fluid in the tube would rise and the bird would tip over in a drinking motion.
    For some strange reason when I saw the Owe Bow I thought of the bird.

  5. President Obama has upheld America’s traditional values.
    No he has not, and all your arm-waving and empty blather does nothing to change the facts.
    American (and world) tradition is for heads of state not to bow to other heads of state.
    American tradition is not to dip the flag or bow before any other power.
    Those are some of America’s traditions. Those are some of America’s values.
    The resident idiot in the White House has vomited all over that with his ignorant bowing and scraping, first to a Saudi king, now to a Japanese emperor. Obama is a graceless jerk of the highest order.

  6. G Montagnoso, I don’t know whether you are gracious or merely insipid.
    At best you can say that some Americans are indifferent in respect to the president kowtowing to the Japanese emporer.
    The majority of Americans are unsettled by this blatant breach of American protocol.

  7. OK, my protocol for the bow in Japan is limited to a CBC show (can’t remember the name,with host Robert Scully) when a Cdn company was looking for invsetment from Japan, and the Karate kid movies.
    I will never forget Pat Morita, “Eyes, always look eyes”. Maybe if the Big O had watched Karate kid &/or Happy Days he would have known.
    Of course, in conjuction with the Boston Globe article from an earlier thread, maybe he should watch the Enron documentary “Smartest Guys in the Room” we all know how that turned out.

  8. K – give it a break.
    We bow, kiss, suck and support Chuckie and Camie plus the GG.
    This is a NON story. But what would PALIN have to say about seeing Japan from her backdoor?

  9. ‘Years ago my Dad bought a “Drinking Bird”. ‘
    lol – now that u mention it. I can see the Republicans coming up with a new toy now a ‘drinking Obama bird’. It’ll ‘fly’ off the shelves.
    As ET said Obama is ‘unique’ therefore he’s above protocol even if it means he wants to abase himself. He’s special.

  10. This is a NON story.
    Well, you can close your eyes, clamp your hands over your ears and yell “LALALALA” all you like, but a clueless President breaching and denigrating 200+ years of American and global tradition because he’s a world-class ignoramus is hardly a non-story.

  11. Reply @ ET
    ET, I suspect you are from another planet…. 😉
    Quote:
    IF he decided to bow, then, according to Japanese protocol, the correct bow is to keep your eyes on the eyes of the Other person. Obama stared at the ground at this shoes. That’s considered an insult.
    Reply:
    President Obama’s eyes were closed just before the instant that his pupils would have come into contact with the Emperor’s shoes. Just look a little more closely at the video clip, not the still picture. So there was no insult.
    Quote:
    As for your suggestion that Obama behaves with grace, dignity and etc – could you explain then, his insults to the UK Prime Minister, where he refused to traditional press interview, and gave him a gift of old American films on DVD, incompatible with UK players? How’s that for intelligence and grace?
    Reply:
    Incompatible with UK players…… well of course….. that’s very intelligent.. it’s called “ Buy America “.
    Quote:
    And his gift to the Queen (oh..and he didn’t bow to the Queen!) of an ipod with his own speeches on it? Please note – he didn’t bow to the Queen.
    Reply:
    an ipod with his own speeches on it…. well of course…. very teck savvy… good for the environment…saves paper…reduces greenhouse gases…. quite inline with EU policy…
    Quote:
    No other leader bows to the Emperor. Not one………
    Reply:
    I am not going to apologize for their lack of graciousness……….
    ………………………………………..
    ET, on a more serious note, I very seldom participate in these types of forums.
    Some people don’t have the capacity to understand that they are not able to understand that which they can not understand.
    And on that note, I don’t want to waste anymore of your time.

  12. G Montagnoso
    Japan is still a very class-based society with a hierarchical order that is at times incredibly difficult to work with. Having said that, not even the lowest of the low person/employee would bow like that.
    I assume you have not been to Japan? Well, I have and that O-bow is ridiculous in any context. What the hell was he thinking is anyone’s guess……

  13. Obama goes to Japan and bows before the emperor of a foreign country.
    Chuckie, Camie and the GG? Canada is a constitutional monarchy, whose head of state is the British monarch.
    Understand the difference?

  14. agent smith – yes, that’s the thing about Obama; he’s ‘above protocol’. Rules don’t affect him.
    His bow was actually an insult, with his eyes on his shoes – and – his KNOWING very well that a bow was ‘not protocol’.
    Obama can’t stand being ‘one among others’. Remember, he refused to go to Berlin because he would be just ‘one leader among other leaders’. No way; that’s not for Obama, The One. So, he didn’t go. He’ll only go somewhere when it’s all about Him.
    Equally, Obama can’t handle being ‘just one leader among other leaders meeting the Emperor’. So, he bowed. He has to be different; he’s a narcissist. It’s all about him.
    The protocol to greet the Queen, for any and all people including leaders of other countries, is a small ‘neck bow’. Obama, of course, refused to do even this. He HAS to be different.
    I think that Obama gets a malicious kick out of offending people, (after all, he knows the Japanese won’t say that the eyes-on-the-ground bow was an insult)..and out of doing things that point to his uniqueness. Even if the behaviour is ungracious and ignorant!

  15. “But what would PALIN have to say about seeing Japan from her backdoor?”
    The LS from SK You are an idiot. Palin never said that she could see Russia from her backyard! Another stupid moron, Tina Fey, (maybe she’s your dumba$$ sister) said it on SNL. What you didn’t know the difference?

  16. Ls from Sask…I want a pair of those binoculars that allow Sarah to see JAPAN from her back door!!!
    Mongoose and LS…your cranium’s called…they have space for rent.

  17. montagnoso – you aren’t answering my questions about evidence for your assertions.
    And, as for the bow,
    1) I doubt if you could see whether Obama’s eyes were closed, but if your excuse to not call it an insult is the empty one that:
    His eyes were closed, therefore he wasn’t looking at the floor…
    This is an invalid excuse.
    The only correct bow is to LOOK at the eyes of the other person! OK? Got that? So, even if Obama closed his eyes as he looked at the floor, it was an insult!
    2) Are you serious? That giving someone an unusable gift is defined as ‘Buy America’? What about the insult that the gift was unusable? Why not give him a gift that was usable? Such as a, oh, I don’t know, a silk tie made in America? Hmm?
    3)Same stupid answer about the ipod.
    Note – how you’ve been totally and completely unable to substantiate your empty rhetoric. Instead, heh, in typical leftist fashion, you resort to red herrings, which really aren’t funny and insults, i.e., assertions that we are too ignorant to understand. Incredible; the mark of a leftist. If you have no argument..then, you insult the questioner. Hey, that’s what Obama does!
    Now, before you run, run, as fast as you can, from anyone who critiques your empty rhetoric, why not try again. And don’t try the ad hominem sniff of ‘you are unintelligent and wouldn’t understand me’.
    Stop the vapid empty rhetoric and provide some EVIDENCE for your assertions.
    Tell me – why did Obama insult the special olympics? Why did he insult doctors, claiming that their only agenda was money, money, money, gained from taking out tonsils right and left? Why has he insulted to many foreign leaders? Why has he insulted the American people and denigrated Congress? What peace? When? Where?
    Why is he running from acknowledging a terrorist attack on US soil?
    Come on. Substantiate your claims.

  18. There is the old saying…..”I’ll bend over backwards but I won’t bend over forwards”.

  19. ET:
    Montagnoso’s 3:44pm reply says it all. He/she doesn’t have much intelligent to say in defence to your comments. The concluding line in the post, “And on that note, I don’t want to waste anymore of your time”, is just another way of saying that you fileted him/her like a fish.

  20. Not to mention this line:
    “Some people don’t have the capacity to understand that they are not able to understand that which they can not understand.”
    Sounds awfully pretentious. IOW they have no counter-arguments.

  21. @ ET
    Quote:
    Tell me – why did Obama insult the special olympics? Why did he insult doctors, claiming that their only agenda was money, money, money, gained from taking out tonsils right and left? Why has he insulted to many foreign leaders? Why has he insulted the American people and denigrated Congress? What peace? When? Where?
    Why is he running from acknowledging a terrorist attack on US soil?
    Come on. Substantiate your claims.
    Posted by: ET at November 16, 2009 4:03 PM
    Reply:
    1. Tell me – why did Obama insult the special olympics?
    Reply: “ special olympics “ has a group connotation.
    Could you be more specific and give me a name – the name of just one person he singled out.
    2. Why did he insult doctors, claiming that their only agenda was money, money, money, gained from taking out tonsils right and left?
    Reply: Could you be more specific and give me a name – the name of just one person he identified.
    3. Why has he insulted to many foreign leaders?
    Reply: Could you be more specific and give me a name – the name of just one person he identified.
    And while you are at it, could you tell me if you mean “to many – or too many or if there are two many “.
    4. Why has he insulted the American people and denigrated Congress?
    Reply: Could you be more specific and give me a name – the name of just one person he identified; one American and who in Congress, or what part of Congress and when.
    5. Why is he running from acknowledging a terrorist attack on US soil?
    Reply:
    OK this one got my attention!
    Could you give us the particulars, the details, just anything specific that can be used as evidence.
    I can assure you that if you would provide the information asap, President Obama and his WH Administration will act faster than greased lightening.
    tap, tap, tap……..
    waiting pariently….

  22. bob c – yes, but what is interesting is how Montagoso is typical of a leftist.
    He’ll first assert claims that are pure rhetoric, i.e., words without evidentiary support. Obama is a prime example; his ‘hope and change’ was empty, hypothetical, and left the content of these terms, up to the listener. And since then, Obama’s actual actions have actually harmed America.
    Then, when you confront such a speaker/writer, he’ll evade the responsibility for his assertions with a number of tactics:
    . red herrings, where he’ll introduce irrelevant examples, false examples or ‘tu quoque examples’.
    . personal insults, meant to claim that you are too dumb, biased or whatever, to have the intellectual authority to ask for such evidence;
    . and finally, he’ll assert that he has no time to waste on such trifles..as you and your thoughts. Or, he’ll assert that he finds your remarks so laughable (the left are always laughing at others)…that he won’t bother to respond.
    It’s always the same strategy by the Left.

  25. montagnoso – your reply is ignorant and ungracious. You are trying the red herring tactic. You haven’t answered my questions of evidence of Obama’s wisdom, intelligence, graciousness and peace-making actions. How about dealing with this???
    You know perfectly well that Obama insulted people of the special olympics, doctors, leaders etc.
    Don’t do the red herring of suggesting that an insult to a group is not an insult and that one ‘only insults individuals’.
    You know about his insults to Brown and Sarkozy. Google it if you are trying to evade knowledge of this. After all, you evaded the unusable DVDs to Brown with your ‘Buy America’ attempt at a joke, and yet, you are now asking for a name?
    And don’t do the red herring of ‘spelling errors’.
    Now YOU made several posts here asserting that Obama is a model of intelligence, wisdom, graciousness and peace-enabling. I asked you to provide factual evidence for each assertion. So, why won’t you do it? Hmmm?

  26. No head of state, of any state should bow down for any other flunky. That is patently stupid. Curtsy and bow is for homegrown subjects.
    A mutual nod by the head is show of respect, though it has to be mutual.
    Does anybody find it offensive that the current occupant of the White House is doing that kind of stuff? It should drive ‘mericans to drink.
    Some say, there are other problems to worry about. Well you worry about them. This display is or should be offensive and unacceptable to the US citizens of what ever “station” in life they may be.
    Can’t imagine PM Harper would do something as stupid.

  27. “ET, on a more serious note, I very seldom participate in these types of forums.
    Some people don’t have the capacity to understand that they are not able to understand that which they can not understand.”
    Typical Liberal, always out trying to prove that they’re the smartest person in the room.

  29. President Obama acted as a gracious statesman and did so in a most respectful manner.
    That means that every other head of state or government, including the Emperor himself who probably knows a thing or two about both bowing customs and diplomatic protocols, was ungracious and disrespectful.
    Face it, Flounder blew it big time. Again.

  30. The bow a sign of respect or subservience? Don’t care. This pussy is a @$%*#@& pathetic piece of #@^ &*+#. Not worth scraping the &*+# off a shoe, just fire those puppies into a dustbin.
    There. I feel better.

  31. @ ET
    Now YOU made several posts here asserting that Obama is a model of intelligence, wisdom, graciousness and peace-enabling. I asked you to provide factual evidence for each assertion. So, why won’t you do it? Hmmm?
    Posted by: ET at November 16, 2009 4:40 PM
    @ Harry
    “ET, on a more serious note, I very seldom participate in these types of forums.
    Some people don’t have the capacity to understand that they are not able to understand that which they can not understand.”
    Typical Liberal, always out trying to prove that they’re the smartest person in the room.
    Posted by: Harry at November 16, 2009 4:43 PM
    Reply to both:
    Lets deal with the most serious, the most pressing issues first. I had mentioned that President Obama had:
    “ President Obama has upheld America’s traditional values. He has done nothing to denigrate anyone. His commendable efforts to restore and maintain peace around the world has been mischaracterized by those who do not want peace, but a reason – any reason to create conflict. “
    ET stated:
    5. Why is he running from acknowledging a terrorist attack on US soil?
    My Reply:
    OK this one got my attention!
    Could you give us the particulars, the details, just anything specific that can be used as evidence.
    I can assure you that if you would provide the information asap, President Obama and his WH Administration will act faster than greased lightening.
    tap, tap, tap……..
    waiting pariently….
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………..
    Summary reply to above:
    You should have noted that I misspelled patiently: reference; “waiting pariently….
    That’s an indication you are not paying attention to the details.
    So, ET, let’s put President Obama to the test…..
    Provide the details of the “a terrorist attack on US soil” and see what happens.
    If all you got is puerile balderdash, then, like I said.. don’t waste my time.
    And Harry,
    Let’s see if you are the smartest person in the room, because if you are, you will do your best to get ET to provide the details.

  32. It is not incorrect to offer a bow. It is incorrect to be so cartoonish about it.
    The Asian countries that experienced Japan’s wartime “hospitality” would be deep in the cold, cold ground before bowing to ANY Japanese leader.
    Darrell, you make valid points about being concerned regarding larger issues. However, I think this incident is part of a pattern of ingratiating and buffoonish behaviour. The press points out every mortal thing George Bush or Sarah Palin do. What is good for the goose, as they say….
    Just my thoughts.

  33. re. G Montagnoso @4:33 – this “Could you be more specific and give me a name” thing is a very lame rhetorical trick I’ve encountered before; people (invariably men, I’m afraid – I associate it with a semi-psychotic alcholic drama-teacher I used to know) who use it appear to consider it the ultimate riposte, a way to establish that everyone who isn’t them is a sloppy thinker who is only capable of dealing in generalities.
    The 4:33 post is a sad example of this because every single example brought up by ET can be substantiated with specifics.
    “Could you give us the particulars, the details, just anything specific that can be used as evidence.”; you ask? Just try me. Not that ET needs the help.

  34. Face it, Flounder blew it big time. Again.
    Posted by: Kathryn at November 16, 2009 5:03 PM
    I know some really informed people who use “Flounder” as bait.
    😉

  35. montagnoso – yoo hoo. You made a list of assertions about Obama, i.e., his wisdom, intelligence, graciousness etc..and I asked you to substantiate these assertions.
    So, tap away, not with your feet, but on the keyboard, and provide the factual evidence for your assertions.
    And again, a detail of spelling on a blog is utterly irrelevant. Now, again, provide the details of evidence for your assertions about Obama.
    Don’t evade.
    Don’t red herring.
    Don’t tu quoque.
    Just deal with filling in the blanks of your rhetoric; provide the substantive evidence.
    As for Obama’s refusal to acknowledge that Ft. Hood was terrorism – and that’s a red herring – because you are using this to avoid answering my questions..just google Obama’s refusal to acknowledge Ft. Hood terrorism..and you’ll come up with enough sites. Obama said it was ‘incomprehensible’. No, it wasn’t. And not one mention of terror, terrorist or terrorism.
    Now, again, STOP evading the issues. Answer my questions, which I’ve repeated so many times. You assert Obama’s intelligence, wisdom, graciousness and peace-making efforts. Kindly provide some evidence.

  36. Some people don’t have the capacity to understand that they are not able to understand that which they can not understand.
    Typical Liberal, always out trying to prove that they’re the smartest person in the room.
    True that. In formal logic we would say that spouting out that particular line does not imply that you aren’t one of those people. 😛

  37. Jake Tapper at ABC (one of the few in the White House press pool who doesn’t drink the Obama koolaid) wrote the following yesterday, from a friend of his in the Japanese academic community:
    “Kyodo News is running his appropriate and reciprocated nod and shake with the Empress, certainly to show the president as dignified, and not in the form of a first year English teacher trying to impress with Karate Kid-level knowledge of Japanese customs.
    The bow as he performed did not just display weakness in Red State terms, but evoked weakness in Japanese terms….The last thing the Japanese want or need is a weak looking American president and, again, in all ways, he unintentionally played that part.”
    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/11/on-president-obamas-bow-to-the-japanese-emperor-an-academic-friend-writes-that-both-the-left-and-the-right-are-wrong.html
    Obama is a rank amateur, proving every single day he was never qualified to hold the presidency. The first “celebrity” president in my lifetime, and I sincerely hope the last.

  39. But this @5:10 –
    “You should have noticed that I misspelled patiently; reference: “waiting pariently….
    That’s an indication that you are not paying attention to the details.
    Makes me decide he’s just a mentally ill troll, so we should all ignore him.

  40. GM
    Please provide detail as to your description of Obama
    tap,tap,tap
    waiting patiently
    two can play your childish game
    please listen to yourself and don’t waste thinking adults time and scurry back to your television,you might miss CNN’s next Obama tongue bath.

  41. G Montagnoso:
    “You should have noted that I misspelled patiently: reference; “waiting pariently….
    That’s an indication you are not paying attention to the details”
    More likely, ET would prefer a substantive discussion. You should give it a try.

  42. “That’s an indication that you were not paying attention to the details.” is his, BTW, not mine. The Italics-thing went weird.
    Just ignore the troll.

  44. montagnoso- nope. That’s yet another red herring.
    Providing a self-descriptive site, the White House talking about the White House, is NOT substantive evidence for YOUR assertions.
    Again, and it’s really astonishing that you both refuse, and I presume, are actually unable to substantiate your assertions.
    YOU told us YOUR Opinion, that Obama was a person of wisdom, intelligence, graciousness and peace-making. So, YOU provide the factual evidence for each of these assertions.
    No, you don’t go to the WH site, which is NOT a critical evaluative site.
    Instead, the way to substantiate YOUR claims, is to provide an actual event/action of Obama’s, and then, YOU evaluate that action and tell us why YOU consider it an action of wisdom, intelligence, graciousness and peace-making.
    Try again. And no insults. Don’t try the ‘sigh’, I’ve got to read to you, which means I’m so intelligent’ tactic. Just the facts.
    Give us an action of Obama’s. And then YOU evaluate it and tell us why it’s indicative of wisdom, intelligence, graciousness, etc.
    It’s quite astonishing…that you refuse to be accountable for what you write.

  45. @ ET
    Posted by: ET at November 16, 2009 5:39 PM
    Reply:
    Those who can, do,
    and those who can not,
    criticise.

  46. montagnoso – what a stupid reply.
    After all, in order to DO something; that is, something constructive and intelligent, one MUST critique and analyze a situation.
    If you don’t do this, then your actions are purely RANDOM. Were your comments about Obama purely random? Without thought? Without evidence? Without substance? Hmmm?
    So, stop evading. You critiqued Obama! Yes, you did, and your evaluation was that he was a man of wisdom, intelligence, graciousness and peace-making. So, substantiate what YOU DID.
    Unreal, how you refuse, absolutely refuse, to support your own assertions about Obama. Hmm.
    That means that they are the product of emptiness, of no thought, of no reasoning, of..nothing but Hot Air.

  47. “And on that note, I don’t want to waste anymore of your time.”
    liar
    “A wise man said don’t argue with fools; cause people at a distance can’t tell who is who”-jigga

  48. ET, it’s not astonishing at all. It is what G Montagnoso feels.
    He or she feels Obama is a person of wisdom, intelligence, graciousness and peace-making, therefore, he [Obama] is such a person. He has proposed nothing to back up his assertions but his feelings, oh, and the White House vanity website.
    Until he can come up with some factual evidence to back up his claim and refute your evidence to the contrary, I wouldn’t waste my time.

  49. Jan – actually I don’t give a whit about someone as ignorant and arrogant as montagnoso. I’m working on Kate’s blog numbers.

  50. @ Jan
    Posted by: Jan at November 16, 2009 5:59 PM
    Quote:
    Until he can come up with some factual evidence to back up his claim and refute your evidence to the contrary, I wouldn’t waste my time.
    Reply:
    Even if I were to give you my eyeglasses, to see what I see, it would profit you little if your vision were impaired as a result of some other obstacle.

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