“The G8 countries have agreed to do whatever needs to be done to limit the world’s temperature to a two-degree increase.”
Do these people even hear themselves anymore???
“The G8 countries have agreed to do whatever needs to be done to limit the world’s temperature to a two-degree increase.”
Do these people even hear themselves anymore???
ET, Ron and Vitruvius: You’ve all noted like me that the 2 degree benchmark is the ‘big out’. This allows endless waffling on the part of anyone trying to set or avoid setting CO2 emission restrictions. Some simple illustrations:
First question: 2 degrees from what benchmark year? If it’s 1998, no one ever has to do anything. Oh, not a benchmark year but some average? Heh, over what time period, noting the inevitable fallacy over selecting endpoints? Remember that 1990 was set as the benchmark year for Kyoto, and its selection was not accidental. It was highly advantageous to the East Bloc and European nations. We and the US were simply stupid enough to go along with it (thank you Al Gore and Jean Chretien); hence Kyoto worked heavily to our comparative disadvantage. Rule of thumb for amateur trade (Kyoto) negotiators: never have Envt Canada do anything more than count ducks; and never play in the other guy’s back yard.
Second question: How are we measuring the 2 degrees? Surface station averages? Heh, which ones? By selecting the right ones I can make the world’s temperature, oh, 5 degrees warmer or 5 cooler by simple selection processes (data dredging). Satellite or balloons? Again, which ones and by which sensor methods? Infrared or microwave? Both? My, my, what’s the weighting?
I could go on almost endlessly, but I think the point is obvious. 2 degrees becomes almost impossible to regulate, because as we’ve seen from Climate Audit and Watts Up, measuring the earth’s temperature is essentially impossible to do definitively. Hence the criteria will be selected politically. As the shenanigans over Mann and The Team have shown, through statistical trickery you can make white look the same as black.
So, we’re back to where we were before 1997. Global warming is simply international trade war by another name, with the desired (by Maurice Strong) side effect of shoveling money to the Third World. In closing, I think at least some of the G8 have been rather clever here. They’ve dumped the issue off into an area that will take years, maybe decades, to sort out the protocol standards. It’s a perfect illustration of the fable of the thief teaching the camel to sing.
Ah So, we have gone from Global Warming to Climate Change to Limiting Temperature ?
And all this for a couple of *&%#$$#$ frigin lizards ?
,
That’s fine that none of them really believe their own BS and have found a way to muddy the waters so their premise can’t be tested. I still have not seen anywhere that they are not going to use it as an excuse to install some form of tax regime on carbon and energy in order to ‘save the planet’. Still no time to let our guard down or the pressure off.
Whatever they do, or don’t do, they will be able to claim success. Really, it is a brilliant move on their part. They will be able to claim all sorts of victories based on unverifiable claims.
What if it goes 2 degrees under? PMSH should have insisted on a subclaus allowing for increased pumping of carbon.
I should think Harper would have rolled his eyes when he saw this and said ” yeah, whatever- it’ll never come to anything , where do I sign?” It’s just playing for time – time for all this warming stuff to be debunked. We’ll just keep on doing what we did for Kyoto – nothing.
A light frost was seen yesterday morning in Airdire Alberta.
This is the coldest July I’ve seen in my entire life.
I’ll be 50 years old in August and I saw the frost return last year and the year before on the night of August 10th.
Only in politics do people cheer for “leaders” who manage to lie with skill.
Maybe we should build a big ziggurat, and throw virgins off it periodically. I mean, it might not hurt
It sounds like they are refinancing a mortgage. Idiots.
cgh – I can’t find this fable of the thief teaching the camel to sing. Help!
“A light frost was seen yesterday morning in Airdire Alberta.
This is the coldest July I’ve seen in my entire life.”
I’m with you. Here in the Ottawa Valley, my pool was up to 26° C in June but now it’s at 17° C.
Global warming? Bring it on!
I say the biggest victims of the Hoax are the students. The Public School System abused the innocent, vulnerable children. Gore’s fictional horror movie shown over and over again was a heinous act. Instilling unnecessary fear into a child’s mind is a crime – worthy of jail time, big time, IMO.
“What’s wrong with these people?”
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them at all. They are all perfectly normal products of the post 1980 Canadian education system. They think they are doing good. Unfortunately, they are wrong.
[engage rant mode]
I think they are minions of the enemy. I think everything they say or do is bent toward the destruction of Western civilization.
That’s why I don’t pay money for anything they say or do, and why the rest of you shouldn’t either.
They need to be defeated in every theater available, from the stock market to the arena of ideas to parliament to the f-ing streets if that’s what it takes.
Confusion to the Enemy.
/.rantmode.
I could go on almost endlessly …
Posted by: cgh at July 9, 2009 1:25 PM
Yes, I think you could. Unless I miss your drift, you (and Vitruvius) seem to be intimaing that there’s nothing to be concerned about here, as these are just talk-fests by posing pols doing nothing but emmitting warm air while trolling for votes from stupid people. Pols doing nothing, but pretending to — something all serious libertarians pine for.
BUT, this nonsense in being expressed in real hard facts on the ground; witness the destructive cap and trade programme just passed in the US Congress. And during this recession cum depression, resources are being mis-allocated on a grand scale.
Sure, they’re faking Co2 reduction and overseeing the global thermostat (the pitch), but they’re deadly serious about an unprecendented level of government expansion and control over our lives. Is is an exaggeration to say we are in the throes of a world-wide Marxist revolution?
So, in conclusion I’m on-side with Kate’s large-font cri de coeur about whether or not they hear themselves!
The world is indeed run by crazy and destructive people whether or not they believe the Co2-global thermostat bullshit.
Maggie, there are many versions of this story, but the simplest one is this:
A thief was caught by the Sultan and sentenced to be executed. He pleaded with the Sultan, “I know a secret, and if you spare me for a year, I will teach your camel to sing.”
The Sultan, intrigued, had him hauled off to the stable, and there the thief could be found, day after day, singing to the Sultan’s camel and encouraging it to sing along with him. A guard one day said to him, “Surely this is futile, that camel’s never going to sing.”
To which the thief replied, “Ah my friend, you don’t understand. A year is a very long time and many things may happen. During the year, the Sultan may die, and I will be free. Or I might die anyway, and I will be free. Or, who knows? Perhaps the camel might sing.”
The moral of the story here is that to a politician, or indeed just about anyone, the gift of time is of extraordinary value, and the G8 agreement this week is just that, buying time and waiting for camels to sing (other events to take climate change off the table or the problem to correct itself), the Sultan to die (the Greens losing their hold over the agenda), or the death of the thief (the end of my term in office and hence someone else’s problem).
“The G8 countries have agreed to implement cap-and-trade to limit the world’s temperature to a two-degree increase.”
There, fixed it for them.
From the original Kung Fu series:
“Grasshopper, you heard but you did not listen.” Seems an apt description of today’s politicians.
And about Statistics: the original Star headline: Nearly 3/4 of Canadians….69%…well it should have read “just over 2/3 of Canadians since 69 is only 3 points of ’66’.
Note to self: Never buy a Toronto Star.
Well put, molarmauler.
Harper’s incandescent light bulb ban, legislated in 2005, kicks in in 2010.
It must be a coincidence.
With the seemingly cooling trend happening…… Obama will use it and this stupid policy thingy and claim to have cured us of global warming!!
Then he can move to other things, like pollution, Islam nutcases and national debt. You know, real problems.
Of course the world is run by crazy people. There’s no way a sane person would try to run the world, the very idea is insane. And yes, Me No Dhimmi, it is an exaggeration to say we are in the throes of a world-wide marxist revolution, just as it is an exaggeration to say we are in the throes of the decline of western civilization. Actually, it’s much worse than just an exaggeration, it’s a pathological psychosis. Still, Kate doesn’t like us to engage in extended debates here, so best I just leave it at that. Y’all have a great day now, y’hear.
MND, the Greens have always been interesting in dictating every aspect of our lives. Nothing I wrote contradicts that. What is the case, however, is that the G8 is backing away from dictating any immediate action on a consensus basis. Countries will still do it on an individual basis, depending upon how strong their watermelon lobby is.
Second, the cap and trade bill in the US has nothing to do with climate change. It’s all about restoring comparative advantage for US unionized industry by imposing handicaps on everything else, particularly foreign (including Canadian) competition. It was also about providing revenue to cover off the huge deficit the US economic recovery act created, but that failed when Waxman had to give away all the carbon credits to get enough support to pass the bill.
So, W-M has nothing to do with CC, it’s only about domestic protection, the modern version of Smoot-Hawley. Even Lisa Jackson admitted this week that the US restrictions on CO2 will have no detectible effect.
What is in the water in Ottawa, and why is PM Harper drinking it?
Remember G8 is not a climate conference. None of the leaders want to be associated with ecofascist limits to growth.
They will let it come from Copenhagen in December.
This is not a victory – beware Copy!!!
Next up … new and even better IPCC models predict that increases in human CO2 production are triggering negative feedbacks which will plunge the world into “runaway cooling”.
G8 promises to not allow temperatures to go down 2 degrees.
Limit to a two degree increase?
So in other words, business as usual?
cgh – excellent, really excellent posts. Many thanks.
Yes indeed, this ‘climate change’ nonsense is primarily a sophist term for a trade war, trying to get economic resources (for free, not even as a loan) to the ‘third world’ and putting economic limits on the industrial nations.
And your analysis of cap-and-trade is also excellent. At some time, however, the unions, which have nothing to do with workers but are enormous corporations in themselves, parasitic corporations, will have to be confronted.
Cjunk, Harper is trying to help Canada survive:
a) the worldwide recession by kow-towing to Obama because 80% of Canadian exports go to the U.S.
b) Obama’s remaining 3 1/2 years as POTUS
The year 2010 is going to be a good year for blogging and a bad year for making a living.
I have it on excellent authority (my imaginary Liberal friend whom I consult weekly) that MI will be announcing climate change policy that goes even further than the G-8 announcement.
Upon election of a Liberal government, MI will table legislation to combat climate change and overcome regional disparities in average temperature throughout Canada.
Highlights include a law limiting the range of temperature variation across the country. For instance if it is 8 degrees C in Victoria on December 10th the temperature in Yellowknife will not be allowed to drop below 4 degrees C.
In this manner Canadians from coast to coast to coast will combat climate change by requiring less energy and regional meteorological differences will be eliminated thereby leveling the playing field for all citizens.
Syncro
Harper, in his statement, alluded to the fact that Obama lead the group in negotiating a general consensus; to which Mr. Harper agreed. He agreed to the impact that climate change is having. What do all of you right wingers think now; he may even be leaning to cap and trade or a carbon tax. Ontario, Quebec and Manitoba are all leaning in that direction.
More good news on the cap and tax front.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/09/breaking-senate-postpones-cap-and-trade/
I don’t care if they hear themselves. The only thing I want them to hear anymore is a whistling noise followed by a thud as the mouton hits the stops.
Chris
The Liberals and their judges will be crying “bloody murder” once the hoax is accepted politically.
CGH
“Even Lisa Jackson admitted this week that the US restrictions on CO2 will have no detectible effect.”
I beg to differ. The numbers I saw for Cap’nTrade were as follows for the average American Family: $2000+/yr increase in energy bills by 2012; $6000+/yr increase in energy bills by 2020.
That being said, I can’t imagine the government would lowball these numbers./sarc
btw, good luck to Canadians, Europeans and Americans in getting the governments to refund or even kybosh the tax after the hoax is revealed.
The G8 targets are meaningless as many have pointed out. The consequences of Cap’nTrade are very real.
Agree with ET, really excellent posts cgh. I’m doubtful about the “trade war” angle, but certainly agree that it’s global wealth re-distribution. Er, global communism. Ironically, the most poignant defense of free trade I’ve ever witnessed was delivered by none other than our mentally-ill moonbat Algore when he destroyed Ross Perot in that debate. He brought up Smoot-Hawley as a key factor.
And you too Vitruvius – loved your libertarian rant.
Now, Vitruvius, KevinB is, according to your lights on another thread, a fear-mongerer, and now I’m pathological then, am I, for suggesting we are in the throes of a world-wide Marxist revolution? You don’t think the EU is a crypto-communist operation? The UN? BTW, I didn’t actually say we were in the “throes of the decline of western civilization” but now that you bring this up, are you suggesting, like some of those happy-face investment advisors, that “this time it’s different”. I mean, the Roman Empire collapsed didn’t it? Are you suggesting that the elites actually learn from history? If so, you’d have to explain the resurgence of destructive Keynesian economics after its thorough de-bunking in the 70s.
And I’m good with substituting Fascist for Marxist in that bumptious phrase I used.
Kate, you should start a pool for the first time any mainstream media news broadcast mentions the “possibility” that global warming may have “reversed” and that “leading scientists” have “discovered” that we are not in that much trouble after all.
I am guessing tomorrow. Behind the scenes, I am pretty sure quite a few of the “leading minds” in the climate field are taking enough flak from their “not so leading” colleagues that they are ready to put the necessary face-saving spin on all this, and talk the jumper off the ledge, so to speak.
It’s too bad it had to take even this long, but some of the weather patterns this spring and summer are basically making such a shambles of the AGW theory that even within the professional ranks there are many signs of extreme discontent. I think it will soon be a case of “who wants to be the last man on the Titanic with Al Gore?” and that would not be an attractive way to spend one’s twilight years.
The hubris is fantastical. Yup, politicians have now taken on divine duties. They can’t tewll us the weather from day to day but by gum they will control the climate by there politician powers.
JMO
T
Get out much?
Did you hear the news about Neil Armstrong?
What about JFK?
When I was a kid and wanted to stay home from school, I’d take the thermometer my mother put in my mouth and hold it against the lighted bulb that was in my bedside table lamp. Just a second or two was enough to get it into fever territory. When I was sick and wanted to attend a birthday party, the chilled glass of gingerale that my loving mother had given me produced the opposite, but desired, effect.
Unlike my mother, I think the G8 leaders are wise to my tricks and will be using them at every opportunity, whether or not the sun cooperates.
Nope, Me No Dhimmi, the Roman empire did not collapse, it just hit a bump in the road. In fact, the whole world is living in the Roman empire, and in a number of other western empires, such as Greek, British, and American, right now. Indeed, the global trade war was invented by western civizilation, and now, western civilization is flourishing all over the global trade war. By the way, I apologized here to KevinB for that somewhat over the top comment of mine that you refered to, just about two hours before you referred to it. Ahh, serendipity 😉
It really is like the lunatics are running the asylum.
“13,600 people have died as result of the cold so far this year in Peru. Raychel Harvey-jones reports”
http://tinyurl.com/mw95ys
and
“140 Children have died in Peru as the cold weather and lack of Medical aid affects the region.
Raychel Harvey-Jones Reports”
Otherwise, words escape me.
I’m with you. Here in the Ottawa Valley, my pool was up to 26° C in June but now it’s at 17° C.
Posted by: JJM at July 9, 2009 1:41 PM
————————————————-
Translation: 78 degrees in June but now it’s at 62 Degrees.
LOL JJM. How do you know you have been hanging around a canadian blog to long ? When you can do the temperature conversions in your head.
,
And in a repeat of last night, frost warnings issued again for central Nfld.
Improvements in communication will kill democracy.
In the past, politicians had no way to determine the opinions of their constituents. When a decision was required, they resorted to common sense.
Now, they must pretend to do what the public thinks best.
These guys cannot even fine tune their bowel movements to avoid missing a group photo.Fine tune to 2050 they cannot fine tune—fill in the blank any blank or try a plank.
T: “He agreed to the impact that climate change is having. What do all of you right wingers think now;”
He’s no dummy. Can you imagine the bullshit that would be slung at him if he said otherwise? Remember, the world can’t tolerate truth. Nice platitudes are expected, and the norm, you know: “yes we can”, “hope n change” …..ad nausium.
I was gasterflabbed when I heard PM Harper sounding off about the undeniable affects climate change was having on the world. What’s to do when the best PM Canada has ever had swallows the hook? I agree the liberals would be total devastation on the economy, but I do not accept incremental climate change fighting like the Conservatives are doing, as it’s all a scam, do we still support the Conservatives, and how to wake them up?
Warm the planet oh mighty ones and do it now!
Lubos presents a good analysis here:
http://motls.blogspot.com/2009/07/g8-err-g7-ban-ice-ages-and-order-global.html
wuberman wrote…I was gasterflabbed when I heard PM Harper sounding off about the undeniable affects climate change was having on the world.
Me too. Every nerve I have left is telling me that he is going to impose a carbon tax. I would expect that from libs but not from a guy whose riding is in Calgary. Get ready for a knife in the back.
I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think I am. The world IS being run by crazy people.
do we still support the Conservatives, and how to wake them up?
If there is a wake up call, it would be economic suicide to spank them while Obama is still in office.
I’m hoping Harper is smiling and nodding while talking a good game and planning to do nothing on the Global Warming portfolio just like the Liberals did before him when they signed and ratified Kyoto and then…crickets chirping.
I have a sick feeling in my stomach.
The developing countries are not happy with this agreement…….unless they can be assured that they can get the funds to see this plan through.So,not only do they want us to pay to clean up our backyard,they ain’t even gonna try to clean up theirs,unless we pay them. Then we sit back and hope they do,and if they don’t,tough titty said the kitty,you got screwed,you should have known better.The whole global warming scheme is a scam starting with their poster child,the rapidly disappearing polar bear. Facts don’t matter,follow the money.Someone should kidnap Al Gore,Suzuki,and a few of the UN elites,strap them down,jack them up with sodium pentathol,and turn on the camcorder. Ahh,I’m starting to get a tingle down my thigh.