Taking The Christ Out Of Costco?

140 Replies to “Taking The Christ Out Of Costco?”

1. Edward Teach wrote: “Dec 25 was a date chosen by Papal decree, because it coincided with various popular pagan winter solstice festivals.”
   Here is a different take on the so-called pagan origins of Christmas. http://touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-10-012-v
   And that bit about the guy in the red coat being Odin? Why would a Christian bishop model himself after a Norse deity?

2. My husband made our own Nativity Scene for outside – it is prominently displayed amongst the lighted snowmen, candy canes, stars, angels, lighted deer and politically correct energy efficient lights.
   Hopefully we have been “inclusive” enough.

3. The Protestant Reformation took the view that Nativity scenes, images of the saints or of Jesus, and such were too close to the commandment against idolatry and graven images. There’s the chance that such things will still be easier to find in Catholic parts of town and a lot scarcer among Protestants.

4. Edward Teach
   Thanks for your comments about the need for the church to maintain its original Christian teachings.
   I am sure therefore, that you will join with the rest of us in celebrating Christmas as one of the best illustrations we have of the truth of the doctrine of the Trinity?

5. Phantom at 11;00, pardon me. I didn’t catch the subtlety of your comment until just now….”Make it”! of course!
   Merry Christmas!.

6. Jeannette; ‘phantom’s’ point wasn’t about HAVING one, he was questioning the need to BUY it.
   ie. make one; especially if it’s a family project.
   That’s why G*d created ‘FIMO’…

7. http://www.christmas-treasures.com/Nativites/Countries/Indonesia.htm
   If you want some alternative nativity scenes – check out what some Muslim countries have online.
   Guilt, paranoia and shame of western culture is bred in-house by our liberal nutters. They feel uncomfortable with what our “normal” society has to offer so would rather tear it down, and reshape it to conform better with their own self loathing image.
   Happy Holidays with your two dads is a society where these people feel welcome. They insist you do as well. Obviously a nativity scene does not fit that agenda.

8. I think people are missing what I am trying to say. I don’t think christmas should be taken out of anything, but to include everyone in celebrating the season.
   For most people the values of this time aren’t about the sacrfice of Christ, they are about the celebration of family and friends, a value that trancends religion and that is worth celebrating as it transcends any particular belief structure.
   And one other thing… can we not make it personal. While we can choose to agree or disagree with people’s ideas, name calling (ignorant etc) only devalues the debate and turns people off from actually sharing their points of view.

9. There is an article in yesterday’s Toronto Sun decrying the fact that there was only 6 toys for over a 1,000 kids at the St. James Town complex annual toy drive. While this is truly sad it is just the culmination of years of anti-Christmas attacks by all the usual suspects, primarily teachers and their boards.
   I have hardly heard any Christmas carols this year on the radio and even shopping. Yesterday I scanned the entire radio dial in my car and could not get one carol being played and this is the big week supposedly for shopping for Christmas, not one.
   The economic downturn is being used as a trigger for many companies and individuals to cut out Christmas parties and celebrations and once they are gone they wont come back. Christmas has just become a commercial selling tool and the spirit has been lost to sales numbers. The lefties are winning and will kill this celebration of this joyous time of the year and an ancient and wonderful tradition.
   My wife’s company, a large accounting firm, had their annual party this year with over 3,800 guests in Toronto. There was not one reference to Christmas, no tree, decoration or anything to what used to be a spectacle at the Royal York that I looked forward to as a warm and super festival of Christmas cheer. She even wished one of the partners “Merry Christmas” and he said that is not politically correct so she said “Well, don’t have a Merry Christmas then!” to his stunned surprise.
   I know we bemoan this every year but this tradition is disappearing at an accelerated rate, how sad.
   Yet as there always is a silver lining maybe as I am seeing this year in conversations with friends and family we can, using the economic downturn as a justification, focus less on the guilt that forces us to buy lots of needless gifts and more on the spirit of Christmas with giving the most precious gift of all, time, with our loved ones.

10. Like Jimbo said, our founding culture is based on Judeo-Christian principles. No one who emigrates to, say, India, would be upset that it’s a largely Hindu country, or that yearly there are public celebrations and cultural events reflecting that, and in the same way, objections to open displays of our Christian cultural heritage are NOT coming primarily from immigrants to Canada, but rather from the statist left — i.e. mostly people of European descent who object on the putative behalf of the sensitivity of “others.”
    This attitude is massively ironic because we all know that no one is more fond of traveling to foreign countries and watching delightful religious/cultural festivals than these progressive Canadians, who’ll show photos, describe at length and with great interest the details of said cultural expressions, and remark on how these beautiful and meaningful the ceremonies give profound insights into the wonderful culture. Yes, these traveling, internationalist, UN-supporting multi-cult-spouting progressives are the same people who wish to remove our own cultural heritage from public-square display at Christmas time under the pretext that we don’t want to offend those who don’t hold the same beliefs.
    We all know that these “no Christmas in the public square”-types would be disappointed, bordering on heartbroken, if they were to travel to Korea, or India, or Africa to find that the main religious/cultural celebrations had been proscribed in the public square. They’d probably demand a refund from their travel agent.
    For the rest of us, here’s the big question: if the cultural traditions of the countries that sprung from the European enlightenment can’t be openly displayed and celebrated in the public square in those countries, then where, exactly, will they be marked and celebrated?

11. actor of all trades, let me tell you a bit of history from my own life. I was married to a Muslim. He always celebrated Christmas with our family without any qualms. He had no problem with any of the traditions and rituals. Even though we are now divorced, he still makes a big deal out of Christmas.
    During our marriage, we lived in Saskatoon and there was a fairly devout Jewish family in the neighbourhood whose kids were just about the same age as ours. Their boy once pleaded with me to let him help us put up the Christmas decorations. I asked his mom if she would have any problem with that. She was fine with it. So Joel helped us put up the decorations that year and he was clearly excited by the opportunity to participate in someone else’s traditions. Not such a horrible thing, is it.
    Several years ago I lived in Ontario for about 16 months, going to school. While I was there I happened to befriend a Jewish woman. She invited me to their home for the Sader meal. She joked about me being the “token” Christian. I laughed at that, because it was true in more ways than one. The point is, people can celebrate and share their traditions with one another without being insulted. I enjoyed the Sader meal. It was the first, and so far, only one I had ever been to, so it was a learning experience for me as well.
    This notion that people of other faiths will be offended or hurt by the practice of Christian traditions is pure bunk, and further more, you know it. It’s plane as the nose on your face that your comments here are nothing more than feeble attempts at grievance mongering.

12. I went all over town looking for religious Christmas cards. There just aren’t any. Most cards say Happy Holidays, Seasons Greetings but few Merry Christmas. By the time my shopping trip was over I was lived. I don’t go into Wal Mart, Costco used to have religious figures – no more. Even the drug stores don’t carry anything Christian at Christmas. I do believe they are trying to make it a secular holiday.

13. I found a good selection of real CHRIST MAS cards at Carlton Cards – 1/2 price even.
    Merry Christmas all.

14. A culture that does not examine itself is doomed to blindly repeating its worst evils until it collapses…a culture that second-guesses itself into paralysis will not exist long either. Somewhere in between, there is a happy medium that lets those people who want to say Merry Christmas and play Christmas hymns without others getting bent out of shape over their neighbour’s choices, or assuming it is done to insult them.

15. Sam, I was interested in your comments and so I went to your blog to read a bit more. It’s too bad that you don’t have comments there, but I hope you will see this here.
    Xmas is not in the same line as happy holidays although many who use it may think so. The X in Xmas comes from the Greek letter Chi which is the first letter in Christ’s name. It is commonplace as well on the Chi-Rho which is an internationally acceptable symbol representing Christ. This is noted as XP.
    Hope this helps. When someone wishes you Happy Xmas you can use the opportunity to educate them!

16. Sam, great post.
    The Bible is truly the basis of equality before the law and the idea that each and every life is sacred. I used to be shocked and now I am mostly sad when I realize how little our society knows of the Bible – we have cut ourselves off from our own roots, and like cut flowers will wither and die.
    My family are all secular Jews. My Mom and my kids (when I force them) are the only ones who go to shul. They all think the Bible is outdated, irrelevant, and just a bunch of fairy tales. Chanukah is basically Chanukah for Hellenists. We have one cousin’s son who has become observant and I am so grateful that some Jews are still doing it.
    The story of Chanukah is alive today. It was basically a civil war between those Jews who wanted to become Hellenist (basically pagan multiculturalists) and those Jews who wanted to stay true to the Torah. This all took place around 180 years before Jesus lived.
    Thankfully some Jews held on and thankfully there are now Christians who also read the Bible (Old Testament too) and together we will (hopefully) survive.
    Merry Christmas

17. My daughter works for the Justice Dept. in Calgary and they put up a Christmas Tree in their dept. Like every govt dept, they have their collection of unionized, PC, mentally devoid leftists who because they celebrated some other form of holiday (I dunno, worshiping kumquats?) on Dec 8, she insisted that everybody in her dept work Saturdays up until Christmas, simply because she did not celebrate it. That lasted a whole half a Saturday.
    Needless to say, since my daughter got promoted, I think they are going to have a big workload around the first week in December. heh.
    My wife and I come from pretty diverse religious backgrounds, she was a Catholic and I was pretty much on the opposite end of the scale. We found a common ground, exposed our kids to church,(even though neither one of us are practicing religious people) and both our kids grew up with the same basic beliefs as us and hold the same Christian values that we hold dear.
    MERRY CHRISTMAS! Event to the leftoids.

18. Jay-mo,
    How about the passage: “For I [God] will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses looted and the women raped” Zechariah 14:2

19. The Dollar Store has everything – and at $1. They know how to make a business work – perhaps they could take over the Big 3?
    Merry Xmas all.

20. Perhaps it’s not a conspiracy.
    I have a crèche de Noël that I have inherited; it is a precious reminder of family traditions. Why ever would I want to buy a crappy “Made in China” version at Costco?

21. Louise,
    I entirely agree with you. I am not for a second suggesting that anyone be exclued from participating. They joy of our friends and family is the diversity that they bring into our lives.
    It is wonderful that Joel, and I know of whom yo speak, was able to share in that tradition and the fact that you were included in a seder meal is absolutelty the way it should be.
    If you read back, I was never talking about people being offended, I was talking about making it more inclusive.
    My point is, that we can celebrate the holiday season and not get bent out of shape about the greeting. If i choose to wish someone a happy holiday, I’m not taking Christ out of the season, merely including all who celebrate, either religiously or secularly in my greeting.

22. Jeanette kudos to you for wanting to celebrate your traditional culture and heritage. I think for stores it probably has to do with demand or lack of demand, since their objective is to sell.
    I also agree that happy holidays is meaningless and silly and is a product of multiculturalism. Multiculturalism has become that all cultures and religions are to be celebrated and recognised equally except Christianity. This is wrong and should be opposed. I am not Christian but neither am I offended if someone wishes me a merry Christmas or sends me a Christmas card. To pretend that December 25 is just a winter holiday is just as silly as to pretend that Hanukkah is about something else. If people do not respect and honour their own traditions, I doubt they can respect the traditions of others. When we feel comfortable in our own traditions, then we do not feel threatened by others – at least that is how I see it.
    Merry Christmas to you and your family.

23. “If God Himself saw fit to mark the birth of Christ with spectacular lighting and the hearty singing of celebrating angels, why shouldn’t all of us share in the festivities?…..by celebrating it, with all its trimmings, more than anyone else.”
    Posted by: Rudy at December 13, 2008 10:24 AM
    Yes! Yes exactly! I am going to try my best to celebrate, although with my husband’s passing in August, the best I might be able to do is prayers of thankfulness. (He commented on SDA as “Sober2ndThought”.)

24. Jeanette, Dannivan, Thanks for your comments. I didn’t mean it to be “subtle”, I just wrote it badly. ~:D
    As far as Christmas goes, “popular” culture has made it one more Commercial Nonsense Day, just like Easter, Mother’s Day, St. Partick’s Day, just like every other holiday. This is the way of the world, I don’t have to like it but I do have to live in it. Has as much to do with Christmas as a frickin’ beer commercial. Packaged and sold by the pound.
    My personal method of fighting back is to make stuff. I just like it better that way.

25. If there is a perceived demand for a product and it’s legal, retailers will sell it.
    As for the issue of being Christian – most of the talking points are specious. It’s ironic that the more intelligent and informed a society believes it has become, the more likely that “natural truths” will be ignored. In the present context “natural truths” include: 1) Nature abhors a vacuum and 2) societies are unable to persist for longer than a few generations (never mind prosper) in the absence of a publicly acknowledged religion.
    Throughout history the demise of religion has inevitably preceded the downfall of societies. Not usually the direct cause but not a coincidental factor either.
    So let’s not kid ourselves. Historically, human societies/cultures
    have proven themselves incapable of a purely existential existence. What is the modern lottery if not a religion for the uncertain existentialist? it offers the same basic reward: the HOPE to “win” something which in turn gives us strength to persevere through the challenges of our mortal lives. The only variable is the cost. Some religions cost more than others – sometimes a tithe of some sort, sometimes our lives.
    No matter how we cut it, we all choose one religion or another eventually. And the more we resist choosing and proclaiming our choice publicly – staking a claim as it were – the more certain it becomes that one will be chosen for us by the “chosen”.
    Which brings me back to Christmas: If you have a nagging doubt that despite your best efforts, your life is lacking meaning and purpose, consider going to a Christmas carol service at any church. Sure, its focal point is someone who may or may not have really existed long ago but that’s not the reason I am suggesting you consider it. The real purpose of going is to (re)discover a feeling of contentment – something in yourself – like the feeling most people have after watching Miracle on 34th Street.
    If you believe in the spirit of the Ten Commandments, don’t worry about the dogma. You don’t need to “be” a Christian either. Take the plunge and just go to any carol service. If nobody wants to go with you, then take yourself. Sit at the very back of the church and you won’t be noticed. Sing along – the words are easy. And best of all, there’s usually no sermon at a carol service. It’s 80-90% music and singing. No commitment is necessary, you never have to go back if you don’t want to.
    What have you got to lose? See you there. I wish everyone a Merry Christmas. And if Christmas does absolutely nothing for you, then Season’s Greetings and Happy New Year.

26. Sam: “The reason for pushing the Bible/Christianity out of Western Culture is far more insidious and deeper than most people think. I am not religious, do not attend church, and I am vicious in my defence of the Christian religion because it is the foundation of our civilization. It is where true equality comes from, where the basis for treating women with respect comes from, it created the Magna Carta, our legal system, our constitutions, and basically our entire civilization. If the Bible/Christianity did not exist, we would need to invent something else that is based in absolutes to keep us from going off the path of reality and eventually snuffing ourselves out. This is usually what happens to societies that don’t recognize absolutes.”
    Many thanks, Sam, for these very wise words.
    We are going to find very soon–and, actually, already are–that not being able to find Nativity Scenes at Wal-Mart is the least of our giving-Christianity-the-boot worries.
    In Toronto, there are front-page articles in community newspapers telling of the closing of out-of-the-cold programs at local churches. Why are the programs being shut down? Because these very active and charitable communities are burnt out.
    For the most part, the congregations are now ageing, with very few young people willing or able to pick up the slack. This is the logical outcome of our society having “outlawed” Jesus in the schools and the public square, even at Christmas and Easter. We now have Santa, the reindeer, the elves, Frosty the Snowman, cute bunnies, chicks, and candy eggs as substitutes.
    And, guess what? Santa, reindeer, elves, snowmen, bunnies, chicks, and eggs don’t inspire people to sacrifice their time, treasure, and talent for the benefit of others.
    Who does is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, born in a rude stable to peasant parents, a humble carpenter, Himself, a preacher, a healer, a miracle-worker, who poured out His life for the salvation of the world. For over 2000 years, belief in Him, experience of His saving and life-giving power, has inspired the most heroic deeds, the most sacrificial acts of love, kindness, and mercy, most often for people Christians don’t even know.
    We snuff out the Light of Christ to the great peril of our whole society.
    “The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who lived in a land of deep darkness–on them has light shined. … For a child has been born for us, a son given to us; authority rests on his shoulders; and he is named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9
    Have a Blessed and Joyous Christmas, everyone!

27. Jeannette: the idea of you making one brought back childhood memories of the plasticine one that my mother made and reused for years and years.
    I collect nativity sets, perhaps as a backlash to the pathetic one I had growing up.
    And Actor: I spend at least 5x as much on my participation in church as I do on Christmas (not including the value of my time which adds up to at least 20 hours a month.) We don’t quite tithe but we come awfully close (the goal is to tithe to charity, and the church gets about 80% of our charitable givings.)

28. “Why would a Christian bishop model himself after a Norse deity?”
    That’s a very good question, isn’t it?
    Rudy, Here’s a little reading for you:
    http://philologos.org/__eb-ttb/

29. Canadian Kate,
    your serivce to your chuch is admirable, i’m sure that you are unfortunately in the minority. If more people gave back year round in a meaninful way society in general would be better.
    Many of the comments equate the state of the soical fabric with the lack of christmas observation, I think it would be more accurate to say that the general lack of giving back to the society as a whole, has more to do with it than any particular set of beliefs being secularized.

30. “I like Christ, but Christmas is nothing but a pagan/consumerist debauch”
    Really!!!! It doesn’t have to be it’s completely up to you how you wish to celebrate it.
    A lot of us here are quite up in years and this Christmas celebration has been going on for generations within our families. It is a beautiful tradition to hand down throughout the generations – complete with little surprises under the CHRISTMAS tree for the children as well as adults. The wisemen brought gift to the enlightened one JESUS the Christ, so we give gifts.
    Many of us know the origins of the date. Yes, it was set by a Papal decree. To be exact – The Emperor Constantine who was pagan and married to a Christian celebrated the solstice. He worshipped Sol Invictus. They combined the feast of Solstice with the birth of Christ to make things easier to bring the pagans to Christianity. Constantine was baptised on his death bed. Jesus was probably born in March – thus the two fish – the sign of Pisces. As for the graven images, well they had another problem with the pagans. They just brought the images into their churches – changed them over time, and gave them other names.
    This doesn’t mean one damn thing. Christmas has been celebrated for centuries and we don’t care for this politically correct society taking away our traditions.
    In our home Christmas is celebrated whenever my children can make it home. This year it is New Years. We will celebrate Christmas day with my mom, brothers and sisters and whom else is in town. We have had many to our celebrations that do not even have family and are alone at Christmas. Christmas is a coming together of family – a celebration of love, family unity and the birth of the Christ child – whenever he was born. We have many other religions within our family – yes even Muslim and they celebrate this feast day with us.
    Merry Christmas to the SDA family.

31. To Kathen at 2:30. Sincerest condolences to you. I recognize the nom-de-plume your husband used from reading SDA. Any special occasions without loved ones are painful, may you find Joy and Comfort as you continue the journey. Merry Christmas to you!

32. Do the Children of Winnipeg School division one know it’s Christmas time at all?
    Video

33. I should add.
    I always fill out comment cards make remarks to their staff one time I dumped a bunch of goods at the clerks feet in Michaels when she told me our national holiday was offensive. Now they have several signs up that say Christmas.
    Guess the letter to head office worked.
    But 99% of the people who complain will not complain to the ones who matter. Thus was the empire lost.
    And go to the store who say nothing about Christmas and say I went to walmart because at least it says Christmas on their website.
    Or Canadian Tire!
    It’s the worst marketing campaign ever many retailers get 50% of their sales because of Christmas a holiday where they want to piss off their customers. If they keep it up in 20-30 years I think there might be an entirely different story behind insatiable greed day which is all the left want it to become.
    IE Put yourself in debt to make manufactures in China rich, run yourself ragged shopping for people you rarely see, don’t take time to visit anyone when you can add a few more dollars on the credit card, then on boxing day take your loot back and fulfill your own greed by running up your credit card even more as you acquire greater piles of junk.
    Will the masses catch on nyahhhhh.

34. I am an atheist, but I miss the Christian movies we used to get at Christmas. Sometimes we get Ben Hur at Easter, but that’s about it.
    I love the movie Jesus of Nazareth directed by Zeffirelli (sp.?) which sometimes plays during the day in French here in Quebec just before Easter.
    Quo Vadis sometimes shows up at Easter, but rarely. There used to be lots more, corny as some of them were.
    But for Santa Claus-type Christmas movies, I love Prancer which has wonderful acting and nature scenes.

35. Very well put, batb. When I see the more rabid ones on TV, I take some consolation out of the fact that when Christ returns, EVERY knee will bow. No exceptions then.

36. Where have you been Jeannette during the constant destruction of our shared Judeo-Christian culture?

37. As quoted by actor of all trades:
    “isn’t consdieration for someone else’s beliefs a wonderful thing. I wonder how you would have felt if your jewish friend had sent you a happy chanukah card? Did you happen to send your moslem friend good wishes for an easy fast on Ramadan?”
    We speak English as a form of convenient communication here in the West anyway. It is UNDERSTOOD that this is the tradition because the massive majority does it. I don’t know anything about Kwanzaa, or Chanukkah nor do I care to. It is not my religion. However if I was in Africa, or Israel I would be expected to know, understand and accept these things as part of normal culture in the country. If you care to learn about them- go for it.
    So it is incumbent on the minroity to bend to the majority not the other way around. When in Rome so to speak.
    Lastly, I have no Muslim friends, nor shall I ever. I won’t consider keeping company with a religious/political/economic system that desires all non-Muslims murdered unless we pay Jizya or convert to Islam.
    That being said I am open to keeping company with any Amadiyyah Muslims as they have removed the offending texts from their version of the Qur’an and are non-violent. However they are also only 10% of them and considered apostates by other Muslims, so they are Muslim in name only I guess. That is extreme maximum extent I am willing to bend in that regard.

38. I read your post twice Sam. The terms you use are not easily understood by a generation of people who have been educated in schools that do not recognize Abstract nouns as nouns!
    The Joy of Christmas is manifested in the heart, not the head but understanding the Joy is dependant on knowledge stored in the head. The Lord God is the source of all knowledge and joy and He is the savior of the human spirit. Jesus Christ is God’s manifestation of all that IS – Jesus Christ is our gift from God to save ourselves from the dark hole the other guy dug for himself and all people who cannot believe that people are more than the body that they inhabit for a few short years on earth.
    Christmas is the celebration of the Joy of all that is good. Christmas is the repudiation of evil and greed (hence giving gifts to all you love and to the poor that you wish to make joyful for the sake of the birth of the Prince of good – Baby Jesus). We are all frail in spirit because we never know how long we will live in our bodies, our souls long for life eternal and Jesus Christ guarantees eternal life. If we do not believe we will doom our souls to hell without enlightenment for eternity. It is all pretty basic if Abstract nouns are recognized by the brain as the key to understanding the human heart in the head. To celebrate the birth of Christ is to abandon evil and embrace good by thinking of others and giving Peace and Goodwill to all for a few days of the year.
    EBD and Rudy – what you have said above is very important to me. Merry Christmas everybody.

39. “To Kathen at 2:30. Sincerest condolences to you. I recognize the nom-de-plume your husband used from reading SDA. Any special occasions without loved ones are painful, may you find Joy and Comfort as you continue the journey. Merry Christmas to you!”
    I couldn’t have said it better Jeanette. My thoughts are with Kathen too.

40. “Where have you been Jeannette during the constant destruction of our shared Judeo-Christian culture?”
    Doesn’t mattter where I, or anyone else, WAS. I’m reading, learning and taking a stand NOW. I see that others are too, may we increase in numbers! Perhaps we can reverse this erosion in baby steps.

41. As said before, Ten Thousand Villages is just the place to get not only Nativiy sets but very unique, fair-trade items, unlike the chintzy Chinese crap they sell in other stores (keep in mind, Christmas is not tolerated in China).
    Personally, I think it’s a sign of cultural and social immaturity to stamp out Christmas. Christmas is celebrated in one fashion or another by millions of people. It is a unique holiday with Christian roots and some secular trappings. We don’t have trees for St. Valentine’s Day or Canada Day. If Christmas bothers you, don’t celebrate it.
    Just my thoughts.

42. To Kathen at 2:30. Sincerest condolences to you. I recognize the nom-de-plume your husband used from reading SDA. Any special occasions without loved ones are painful, may you find Joy and Comfort as you continue the journey. Merry Christmas to you!
    Posted by: Jeannette at December 13, 2008 3:26 PM
    Well spoken and I to wish you the best of of Christmas and the New Year.
    Well spoken Sam.

43. Actor @ 3:08: “Many of the comments equate the state of the soical fabric with the lack of christmas observation, I think it would be more accurate to say that the general lack of giving back to the society as a whole, has more to do with it than any particular set of beliefs being secularized.”
    I consider the state of the social fabric, and lack of giving back to society as a whole, the result of expectation that government will take care of everything. It seems one doesn’t have to care about any specific social problem, it is the government’s job to take care of it.
    My daughter has a stuck draw in her kitchen and she left the drawer open rather than fix it herself because it was the job of landlord. So she prefers to live with inconvenience and complain, rather than to take the few minutes it will take to learn how to fix the drawer (it needs two small nails to repair it – I looked). This is a minor example of how society is falling apart, simply because we won’t do things ourselves, or take responsibilities for things.
    Whether taking responsibility and taking action is conservative thinking, or whether it comes from my Christian beliefs, I don’t know or care. I just know that the lack of it in this society is the root of so many of our problems.

44. Feedback? The political crisis and perceived economic crisis have proved so jarring that I saw a libertarian making sense the other day. Now, I see atheists making sense too.
    The benefits of recession seem to outweigh the costs. I for one will gladly trade 5% of GDP for a populace that has (metaphorically) had the stupid knocked out of them.

45. Canadian Kate,
    Absolutely, I agree with everything you said about taking responsibility, it doens’t matter what you believe, as long as you are responsible for your actions and respectful of others.
    Happy holidays, and Merry christmas to all who celebrate

46. Many years ago when we were poor as church mice and way too many kids to feed and buy Christmas trees at the same time, I decided that I would make our own nativity scene. I made a wooden manger out of scrap wood and bent nails. I dug up some frozen grass to fill the manger. Then I found a piece of cardboard cut it into the shape of a four pointed star. I borrowed some tinfoil and made the star all shiny then hung it from the ceiling. I used one of the daughter’s dolls wrapped it an old cloth and added a few stuffed animals that the kids had accumulated over the years and soon had a nativity scene.
    In the years since we’ve had some very elaborate Christmas trees and decorations but the one thing that must be laid out every Christmas and the kids have all insisted be given prominence is that old home made nativity set.

47. Kathen – Condolenses on your loss. I too recall reading the writings of sober2ndthought. A prayer is going your way today that you can have a Christmas of good memories and good friends and family around you this year. God Bless.

48. Posted by: Joe at December 13, 2008 5:26 PM
    “In the years since we’ve had some very elaborate Christmas trees and decorations but the one thing that must be laid out every Christmas and the kids have all insisted be given prominence is that old home made nativity set.”
    You, sir, in the raising of your children, have done good. Therein lies the future of our nations, our traditions and our beliefs.
    Thank you.
    Merry Christmas to you, and yours.

49. Kathen, my condolences also on the loss of your husband. I remember Sober2ndThought. I loved his moniker and I seem to remember very sensible comments–well, he had soberly thought about them again, hadn’t he?
    God bless you and your family this Christmas. Sober2ndThought will have a ringside seat at the heavenly festivities.

50. “actor of all trades: Islam recognizes Jesus Christ as a prophet as well.” – uuess
    The johnny-come-lately religion is in no position to define Christ. Certainly not as a prophet, second to an unrepentant murdering pedophile; an impostor outside of the house of Israel and the line of prophets.
    Furthermore, the Islamic ‘Isa’ means Esau in Arabic. They can’t even get the name right. Regardless, the character cited in the Quran is a very different individual, bearing no relation, or resemblance.
    Kathen, condolences to you as well. May you find peace, comfort and solace this Christmas season.