That rarest of all creatures, a Liberal who gets it;
Think that Westerners hate the Liberals already; think about the fallout after this. This will play extremely BAD in the West. EXTREMELY BAD. I’m talking NEP BAD. Steven Harper and the Conservatives are the embodiment of the West overcoming decades of alienation and frustration. This coalition will rob them of this. They’ll be pissed (PISSSED). Everyone has basically acknowledged that for the party to be relevant in the future and truly be a national party, we need to be competitive in the West (wealth, people, power heading here). This puts us back another 20 years. For the sake of Liberals in the West DONT DO IT.
The numbers
At this very moment a quite literal coup d’etat is under way in Ottawa, make no mistake about this. A government elected just seven weeks ago by the people is about to be overthrown, a government with by far the broadest representation from across the nation of any political party. It breaks down as follows:
British Columbia: CPC 22 – Lib 5 – NDP 9
Prairies: CPC 49 – Lib 2 – NDP 5
Ontario: CPC 51 – Lib 38 – NDP 17
Quebec: CPC 10 – Lib 13 – NDP 1 – Ind 1
Maritimes: CPC 10 – Lib 17 – NDP 3 – Ind 1
Territories: CPC 1 – Lib 1 – NDP 1
[…]
Circa 1988 I attended a hastily called rally in Lloydminster, AB, for western separatism. Roughly 600 showed up. Hundreds of them bought memberships. People were angry, fed up, and ready to go it alone.
A couple of months later I attended another rally in the same hall, this time to hear Preston Manning. Many of the same people showed up, hundreds of them. Manning’s message was that separatism was not the answer. Rather, what was needed was “reform” of the confederation, in which the west could become an equal partner. He summed it all up with the simple mantra: The west wants in.
Hundreds scrapped their separatist memberships, and joined Preston Manning’s newly minted Reform Party. Over the ensuing decade he changed the political landscape forever. After growing pains until hell wouldn’t have any more, in 2006 Stephen Harper, one time policy guru for Preston Manning, emerged to form a minority Conservative government.
The west was finally in.
Blazingcatfur;
We don’t need to assume that the coallition was plotting well in advance. I’ll take Layton at his word as was revealed by the tape and transcript of his discussion with his caucus. It seems fairly clear.
Equally as clear, since it was the Cons who released this info, they were well aware of the rumblings. Harper obviously knew what was afoot when he proposed changes to campaign finances.
It was nothing if not predictable that media dolts would come out with the “Harper was arrogant and stupid” BS. We don’t need to fall for it. Listen to Jack’s confession again.
It’s not just these three jerks. Where are their MP’s on this? Is party loyalty more important than the stability and unity of Canada?
That’s right LindaL. Send a message to your local federal politicians — including those who ran but lost the local riding election. Include those who would seek nomination for the next election.
Get the local politicians involved if they won’t step forward. Push them!
Globe and Mail is reporting Lizzie May is heading for a senate seat from PM-Appointed Dion. It appears the snouts are plunging into the trough even before Dion is officially PM.
Liberal reaction to rage in the west will basically equate to Scott Reid’s suggestion for Albertans that he made to journalist Don Martin. Scott Reid is a Liberal backroomer and former communications boss for PM Martin.
What about Afghanistan? What about the Carbon Tax and Kyoto? What about Section 13 of the Human Rights Code? What’s their Foreign Policy? Are they going to implement Universal Child Care? When do get to see their complete platform or should I just ask the Bloq?
As stated above PMSH knew of this all along; damn it, I knew before we went to the polls. There was an astute observation made in an earlier comment that I would like to expand on. This coalition was in the works before the election, the thorn in my side is that the three parties could have come clean, and ran on this against the Conservatives during the election. This is very very bad!
My prediction(wishful thinking): I think the GG may call an election contrary to popular opinion because of the numbers. The Lib/NDP have kept the Bloc out of the gov’t to protect their brands; but, this means that the coalition would be substantially smaller than the gov’t they are removing. This puts the GG in a very difficult situation because regardless of what is on paper, it will be difficult to keep this gov’t together. It is plain to see that this coalition could have run as an entity in the past election. An election now WILL provide a clear choice for Canadians. The right choice(for democracy) is clear, and this GG will have a major role in Canada’s history, the choice will be hers, and that is how Canadians view her and her office in the future.
WRT separation, here is an ealier comment I’ve made somewhere:
“Just musing here; but, is it possible that the gov’t falls next week then as you suggest PMSH steps down from the CPC leadership; or, the CPC dissolves along it’s traditional lines and SH leads the New Reform Party?
We are on very precarious footing at this time. Are there any leaders out west who share this view in the closet? I’ve been doing some personal research on this in the past year and a half and I’m of the opinion that in Saskatchewan and Alberta 75%+ support western separation, although they haven’t put too much thought into it. I don’t know much of these things, but I’m of the frame of mind that separation will light like wildfire,spread and happen quickly(if at all), not like the Quebec model.”
LIBERAL/NDP/BLOC RALLYING CRY:
HOORAY FOR IMPERIALISM!
Does anyone but me see the irony in our lefties running to the Queen begging like lords for the power to control and tax the peasants?
Bob C, whether or not the coallitions plans were or were not known in advance by the CPC, the party blundered by not going straight to the Canadian people once the coallitions intent was clear.
Why keep us in the dark assuming they knew in advance? What was the point of raising the red-herring defunding issue then backing down from that stance? Sorry I just don’t see any coherent strategy here.
Why did they play this game?
Simeon, I am also from your area and the people of Windsor are just as angry about this as you are. Read Gord Henderson’s column today and you will get a feel of just how they feel. Read the comments in todays Star and you will see you are not alone.
BCF:
If the Harper called another election before the coalition revealed itself, it would never become public and Harper would be a raging paranoid wasting more money on an election.
Now, the possibility of another election so soon after the last is outrageous, the hidden agenda of the coalition, revealed, is enraging the public, and the coalition is forcing an election if they fail in their attempt OR if they succeed.
It is clear now, after the revelations over the last few days, that the coalition was inevitable and hidden, and now is open to public view along with the timing.
They complained of Conservative attack-ads in the LAST election.
I agree with those who think that Harper caught wind of the coalition plotting weeks ago. On election night, while being interviewed on one of the TV networks, Bob Rae appeared to float the idea of a coaltion between the other parties when it looked like a PC minority was likely.
Blazing Cat/Indy:
The cons didn’t have foreknowledge. The dipper meeting was taped Saturday morning which was four days ago.
The dippers and separatists hatched this weeks ago, likely days after the election. Laydown is heard on the tape saying he is happy the plan was put in place early because the excuse to trigger it came sooner than he expected.
Sorry, I meant that the coalition is FACING an election, succeed or fail, at some time in the future, and will pay some penalty for it then.
Blazingcatfur;
If Harper had stood up and pointed the finger at the Coalition ahead of time, they could easily have backed off from tipping their hand and called Harper paranoid instead. I can see why Harper would have waited until the die was cast.
Whether injecting party funding into the issue was smart or not, it’s a matter of opinion I guess. From what I’ve seen of public comment on that issue, Harper has fairly solid support with the public.
Did you notice the first reaction of the coalition members was to declare “This is war” over the funding proposal, then how quickly they switched gears to denying it was any part of their thinking. On a dime, the issue became the lack of stimulous in the economic statement. Seems to me they saw the same public reaction that I did and backed off in a hurry.
Harper’s “blunder” is far more in the mind of the media spin masters than in the general public. They’d like you to buy into it. Don’t. Work calls. Look forward later to your response, if any. Thanks.
I don’t know if this is just a rumour but on Lowell Green’s show this morning it was mentioned that the 71MPs from out west will quit if this coalition goes through. If they do I am sure the others will follow leaving no opposition. Don’t think they can run a government without them What do you all think?
Also I saw in one of the blogs that I troll that the throne speech the GG gave had within it the cut to MPS 1.75/1.95. Now, if this is true the throne speech was passed in the house. Anyone else hear this?
The example of what is going on in Belgium should be educational and frightening. The parallels to Canada are obvious, down to the fact that a monarch or representative thereof is a figurehead leader that is expected to somehow resolve political disputes that the citizens of the country cannot (like our GG)
The french part of this country is socialist and union dominated, economically unproductive, and controls the cities and the parliament.
The Walloons (Flemish) are more conservative, more productive economically, support the French, and have been increasingly resentful of this, especially due to disastrous welfare system and immigration policies that seem to have no purpose but to bolster the political support for the socialists.
It is our future. Belgium has been in a permanent state of constitutional crisis for years, and effectively without a government for a year.
People would be well advised to educate themselves about what has happened there, why, and where they are going.
To provide yet another illustration of how the Radical Left thinks . . .
One such fellow called up to Vancouver’s #1 talk radio station, CKNW, this morning and said, “Well, if I recall correctly, Stephane Dion got a larger share of the popular vote than Stephen Harper so he’s more suitable for being PM anyway.”
I wish I were kidding about this but I’m not.
You see, if you’re a Liberal and the facts don’t mesh with your world view then don’t bother think about adjusting your view, just change the facts!!!
BEYOND PATHETIC!!!
It’s abundantly clear that either the Fogs tire of the Bloc or the ROC will tire of the Frogs.
I’m hoping on the latter. Without the frogs, Harper has a strong majority.
Notice a lot of conservatives have been dissing Barack Obama’s high schoolish podium sign that says “Office of the President-Elect of the United States of America”.
What will Dion have? This is ripe for mock-ups.
It’s abundantly clear that either the Fogs tire of the Bloc or the ROC will tire of the Frogs.
I’m hoping on the latter. Without the frogs, Harper has a strong majority.
Ontario finally has a conservative voice, we finally have a PM that understands that Ontario is being bled dry and this nation finally has a PM that understands how Ontario values the military and the Liberals, NDP and Bloc are trying to take it away. Ontario wants OUT!
Blazingcatfur, I am sure the PM knew about it. This was floated during the election. I heard it and I am sure the Prime Minister heard it. Mr Dion said during an interview when asked that he could never tie himself with Layton it would not be good for the economy. The word coalition was even mentioned during the election.
This will blow up in their collective faces.
You’ll see…
So…six weeks after an election in which Harper emerged with a stronger mandate, earning the same level of popular support as Chretien got, while Dion took his party to an historic low, suddenly a bunch of backroom boys from losing parties come out and say “Hello Canadians. A few of us met privately and have decided who your government will be.” So now Dion will be pm, Layton will be Environment Minister — hello, Alberta and Saskatchewan — and the separatists have a veto on the parliamentary business conducted on behalf of all Canadians.
There’s only one thing to do: prorogue. What we’ve seen tactically is a disorienting flash-bang followed by opportunistic weasels rushing in and assuring everyone that they’re now in charge; they’re attempting to elbow the Canadian electorate aside, they’re trying to close the deal and get voters out the door as quickly as possible. That can’t be allowed to happen.
Time is absolutely on the Conservatives’ side, so they should take as much as they can get, by whatever legal means possible. Canadian voters have stunning new information, completely unforeseen, about the Libs and the NDP; a Christmas get-together to discuss it will badly harm the coalitionists. IF that happens, if Canadian families get together over the holidays, it IS going to fully register that these bunch of weasels lied to us during the last election campaign — they’re fraudulent, and, unlike Mr. Harper, they’re not acting in the best interests of the country. Not only did they never reveal to Canadians during the recent election that what they’re doing now was a possibility, but Dion for one absolutely, unequivocally disavowed the possibility.
You can see the usual on-air suspects trying to strike while the iron is hot and to get Harper out as quickly as possible. They’re trying to sell the idea that the LPC/OPG/GTA/bureaucrat narrative (Harper’s bad, it’s his fault, he must go) is a national narrative — “everybody knows that Harper is”…blah blah blah — but they’re absolutely full of crap. Ask yourself this: have all those Canadians who gave Mr. Harper his third successive increased mandate suddenly turned against him and decided they want Dion as PM instead? No, huh?
Time is an ally of the truth. Prorogue. Opposition among the electorate to these usurping clowns is building by the day, and will keep growing over time. It’s critical that the Conservatives to do anything and everything possible to prevent a quick handover to them.
The worst possible downside to proroguing is that the GG will deny a request for an election after the Conservatives are defeated on an economic statement in January. Same outcome, in other words, except that the Clown Coalition would assume power in January instead of next week.
Mr. Harper should simply say “We went to the voters six weeks ago and returned with a stronger mandate. I believe that Canadians need time to think about and carefully consider what sort of government they want. It’s important to remember that not one single Canadian voted for a proposed coalition that gives one party that only runs candidates in one province a veto over Canadians from coast to coast. Economically we’re in good shape compared to the rest of the world. We’ll release a budget in January and put it’s support to the Canadian people if necessary.”
“I don’t know if this is just a rumour but on Lowell Green’s show this morning it was mentioned that the 71MPs from out west will quit if this coalition goes through.”
Can anyone verify this? This is big beyond description, I doubt it’s verifiable; but, if it was, you’ll see me running down the streets naked cheering !:-p
“What will Dion have?”
Office of the Prime Minister-Select.
Hopefully there are some other Lieberals who get it and enough of them to terminate this coalition of traitors before it has any chance at power.
Right now I’m ready to do what it takes to get the west to separate should the Harper government fall. Easterners should be aware that if the coalition of the swilling gets in, the reaction out here will make the NEP look like a minor disagreement between friends.
For those of you Christians that think rebellion against an unjust gov’t is not biblically permissible read the puritan Samuel Rutherford’s “Lex Rex or the Law and the Prince” or read “a Defence of Liberty Against Tyrants” by Junius Brutus a book poular before the French Revolution
Sheesh. What’re you guys running, a government or a hockey game?
We wonder why in abusive relationships the abused doesn’t even consider leaving the relationship. Each one of us in Alberta ans Sask have to ask ourselves if we fit into that category.
Building on ET analysis how about this.
She has raised an interesting scenario. If Harper goes to the GG and asks for a mandate to have another election with this time the coalition against the Conservatives and she gives it to him he can now turn to Canadians and show them the naked lust for power that the defeated and disgraced Dion has such that he would actually turn parliament over to the separatist Bloc.
Jackal bin Layton would also be shown to be in bed with Deceit and again making a deal with the devil just to grasp his othewise unobtainable brass ring.
Harper can now say that these guys would divide up Canada by giving the Bloc 6 senate seats and even Lizzie May would be given her own senate position. This coalition with zero plan would take 30 billion of taxpayers money and divide it among the unions and other friends of the leftists. They haven’t a leg to stand on if she is accurate in her analysis and the Liberals and NDP would be wiped out across the West and East as outraged Canadians see our democracy being circumvented by these thugs.
As poll after poll has shown Canadians are pissed off that just 7 weeks ago the Conservatives were given a mandate to govern and yet when they as shown have Canada in a good position to ride the recession these turds try to take over the parliament they were denied by the voters.
These guys can’t now run separately as they have signed an agreement to act as a coalition. How can they present what they have done in any positive light to the electorate. The coalition is now out on the limb and hopefully Harper will saw it off!
WTF ,Why the heck would you want to inflame the west at this time?
Posted by: bob c at December 2, 2008 1:37 PM
“Harper’s “blunder” is far more in the mind of the media spin masters than in the general public. They’d like you to buy into it. Don’t.”
Spot on Bob c –
the MSM hates Harper and conservatism – ergo the constant Harper bashing.
The same corrupt MSM that turned a blind eye to the crooked Chretien years.
this coalition puts ONE province in control of ALL of Canada – and without any representation from Canada. NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. Are the out of their minds?
Posted by: ET at December 2, 2008 11:07 AM
I made this very point to my boss this morning as we discussed the current political crisis. In my view there are many elements of this coalition that give the GG justification for not handing power over to this unholy alliance, but this issue is the biggest one.
While not a formal part of the proposed coalition, the Bloc will be handed effective veto power over all legislation. It’s frightening in the extreme to contemplate a party having veto control over national legislation that is not accountable to 80% of the nation’s populace.
One such fellow called up to Vancouver’s #1 talk radio station, CKNW, this morning and said, “Well, if I recall correctly, Stephane Dion got a larger share of the popular vote than Stephen Harper so he’s more suitable for being PM anyway.
BEYOND PATHETIC!!!
Posted by: Robert W. at December 2, 2008 1:46 PM
Indeed, I heard this same comment on NW this morning: it was replayed from the CKNW listener-line (voice mail) that people can call and leave a message on. What peeves me off is that Bill Good let the comment slide, just played it, and then moved on to talk to his guest.
“At this very moment a quite literal coup d’etat is under way in Ottawa, make no mistake about this. A government elected just seven weeks ago by the people is about to be overthrown,”
++
Know what the word “literal” means?
Funny coup d’etat in which the “head” announces the possible coup dates [Monday or perhaps next year], and all the plotters are elected members conducting their plots in the public gaze.
“What peeves me off is that Bill Good let the comment slide, just played it, and then moved on to talk to his guest.”
Bill Good is so woefully uninformed about what is going on anywhere; I’ve noticed this for years. He is a very very poor excuse for talk-show host. It’s quite embarrassing, actually. He mispronounces names, gets details wrong all the time. Not a clue in the big lug’s head.
Give me Charles Adler and Dave Rutherford any day over this guy.
I’m talking Russian Revolution bad.
These people are clearly insane and should be locked up for their own good, if not ours.
WTF is Michael Ignatieff thinking, he hires on the Jackass and immediately turns into a revolutionary.
The only questions left now are how much of Ontario will secede, and what currency will the rump of Canada use, because it won’t be worth the paper it’s printed on.
Joe Molnar;
The media is an outrage. They accuse Harper of being arrogant, yet I know of no politician more arrogant than Trudeau.
Had Trudeau done exactly the same as Harper just did, the media would have ignored any suggestion that he was playing political games with his rivals. They’d have sung praises for showing concern for the common man, and an understanding that the economic pain about to be felt by Canadians had to be shared by those at the top. He would have been showing great leadership in doing so. The opposition would have been characterized as selfish Scrooges caring only about themselves.
Funny how it doesn’t come out like that when the shoe happens to be on a Conservative’s foot.