Modify HRC Jurisdiction
PROPOSED BY VICTORIA AND KELOWNA – LAKE COUNTRY
iii) The Conservative Party supports legislation to remove authority from the Canadian Human Rights Commission and Tribunal to regulate, receive, investigate or adjudicate complaints related to Section 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Act.
Passed “overwhelmingly”
Previous.
From Gord Tulk who’s on the scene at the convention, “kady omalley’s posts over at macleans are full of errors. The vote on fiscal imbalance did not see one hundred people rush into the room. All policy sessions finished early many of the resolutions passing like sh?t through a goose. Only ten resolutions from each of four catagories make it to the plenary. If more than ten were passed the delegates vote by paper ballot which ten get to the floor. Debates were vigourous but not heated – we are all consevatives here. It’s like SDA comments in real life. Having a blast. “
Speaking of Macleans, comment of the day here – “It’s like Kady’s sitting in South Korea trying to figure out what’s happening in the North by looking over with a pair of binoculars.”
it was my pleasure to vote for it and I look forward to sparking and voting infavour of it in the plenary session tomorrow.
speaking not sparking …
WOOHOO!
Good job bloggers!
Now to hold the party officials to it!
Btw kady omalley’s posts over at macleans are full of errors.
The vote on fiscal imbalance did not see one hundred people rush into the room.
All policy sessions finished early many of the resolutions passing like sh?t through a goose.
Only ten resolutions from each of four catagories make it to the plenary. If more than ten were passed the delegates vote by paper ballot which ten get to the floor.
Debates were vigourous but not heated – we are all consevatives here. It’s like SDA comments in real life. Having a blast.
Many thanks, gord tulk, for your being there and voting, and letting us know what is really going on.
We don’t need Kady O’Malley’s biases.
And thanks for the HRC vote!
First of all, YEA! And about time too, and now how about some payback for everybody these d1ckheads put through the wringer and washer. And maybe some butts to be kicked in the Ministry of Love there for letting this happen in the fist place, eh? These things don’t occur in a f-ing vacuum, do they?
Second, it seems to have put the Dawg’s nose out of joint, so YEA! again!
Any of my fellow ‘Peggers out on the prowl in the Sals House or the downtown bars? The convention seems to have attracted a sniffing Dawg into our fair city. Any sightings yet?
http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/2008/11/sore-thumb-chronicles-day-two-1000am.html
Thanks for that Gord!
Apologizing in advance for my “negativity” but:
This will not be adopted as government policy because it would be rightly perceived as a net vote loser, i.e., advocates are already voting Con (there being no alternative) while many others of more centrist/liberal persuasion, who may have only recently become nose-pinching Con voters, will bolt. It’s simple electoral arithmetic. The Cons don’t have the surplus political capital to spend on this, and spend they would as there are no votes to be gained.
Do not be fooled by the earlier apparent bi-partisan rhetoric against the HRCs (Toronto Star, PEN, etc). They will turn, and turn viciously, the moment the Cons go for what they will propagandize as “hate enablement”. It’s a trap.
Maybe section 13 will be dormant but it will stay on the books. The job-for-life bureaucrats, out of self interest, will however be more careful and will avoid the most ridiculous fringe complaints and will be in no hurry to persecute high profile notables any time soon.
Look: in today’s environment, you can even tell a fellow Canadian you like Sarah Palin without being banished.
… but thanks Gord, for sure.
Re: Kady O’Malley. Not at the convention this time but have been in the past. I’d spend hours in a room listening and participating in the discussions, go back to the hotel, turn on the news and wonder what planet I’d been on all day since my day sure wasn’t reflected in the reporting. Very eye opening experience. Haven’t trusted the media since.
ditto to that boudicae. Montreal was poorly covered too.
“Now to hold the party officials to it!”
Good luck with that. Harper has already indicated his support for CHRCs and that Conservative grassroots are just one interested “stakeholder” party among many others.
So how is he doing on the conservative scorecard these days?
Elected senators? Abandoned on day 1
No floor crossing? Abandoned on day 1
Cut taxes? Cuts GST but also cuts scheduled income tax cuts
No sponsorship programs? Abandoned early on
No tax on income trusts? Abandoned early on
Reduce spending? Record spending
Govern by principle? Record spending on polling, double what even Martin spent
Substance over optics? Using taxpayer money for fashion (and astrology!) advice
Free votes on all non-budget motions? Makes most votes confidence votes
Support freedom of expression? Does nothing to change election laws and says the Human Rights Commissions are doing a good job regulating themselves
Accountability? Abandoned with “financial consideration” for Cadman’s votes, U of Calgary financial scam, in-and-out scandal
Transparency? Interference, non-compliance and record low responses to formal information requests
Grassroots over party machine? Harper muzzles MPs, tells grassroots they are just one stakeholder, tells grassroots to shut up with Reform era social conservative policies
Principle over politics? Tells grassroots that conservative principles are not pragmatic and we need to be pragmatic not ideological
And the big one…
Fiscal prudence? Here comes “Deficit Jim” to do for the whole country what he did for Ontario
Is there any “conservative” left in Harper?
But keep sending him your hard-earned money ’cause this is what you voted for. Right?
Rex Murphy describes the Conservatives as the new Liberals on the National last night and he noted the Liberal Party has banished itself to elitist Toronto. I think he’s right.
Mr. Turk a tip o’ the hat to you sir for personnel integrity.
Thanks for the byplay as well. I will say the monies I have sent the folks being persecuted for their beliefs has done tenfold more than any tax buck every taken involuntarily from my check. Ezra, Both Marks, Kate, Kathy & all the others being pummeled by though police, are doing more for real freedom in the Canada’s than the government ever could .By making us aware of the dangers that have arisen over 40 years of attempted Utopia. As well standing up to the bullies of this infamous scam. These HRC’s have become4 engines of a mini hell for people of concience.
Now watch all the pinheads come out with headlines like “Conservative Bigots favor abolishing human rights” LOL! 5…4…3…2….
what planet are you living on, ted? It certainly doesn’t seem to be associated with reality.
Harper hasn’t abandoned an elected Senate. You know that; he hasn’t abandoned limited Senate terms either – but the Senate Liberals don’t want this!
Taxes cut? Yes, corporate income tax reduced from 22.12 to 15 by2012; reduced small business income tax rate from 12 to 11 for 2008, capital gains exemption for small bus. increased to 750,000 from 500,000, new 2,000 child tax credit, individual deductible to increase to 10,000 in 2009, tax free savings acount..and so on.
What sponsorship programs?
Income trusts – he had to, to stop the banks and others from joining the tax-free club.
Polling is not a synonym for priniples. Because he uses polling does not mean he isn’t principled. Your Chretien wasn’t principled; your Martin wasn’t principled.
Astrology advice? Again, ted, what planet are your on?
Confidence votes? Surely you know that was a tactic to get anything done in that last parliament, with the filibustering and games being played amongst the Left. It was the only tactic left for Harper to get any work done in that dysfunctional parliament.
Cadman? Kindly prove what you are implying. Harper made no offer other than to help with election costs – which is done for all candidates.
Freedom of expression? He’s said and written that the HRCs need reform. What election laws are you talking about?
Accountability? Kindly remember that the Liberal Senate sat on it for a year, changed over half the clauses, took themselves out of any accountability and so on.
Formal information requests? To his office? Kindly remember that he doesn’t day by day rule the predominantly Liberal civil service.
Yes, the grassroots is ONE part of a governing infrastructure. It can’t be the only source of decision-making. You have to include the elected representatives, ted. And the party leaders.
The problem with your Liberal Party, ted, is that it has NO grassroots, and ALL its decisions are made by an unelected businessmen tied to PowerCorp.
Again, ted, Harper didn’t say that Conservative principles aren’t pragmatic. He said that we shouldn’t become focused on ideas (ideology) when this is a time for pragmatic actions. Now, ted, how does that translate into your assertion that Harper said that ‘Conservative principles aren’t pragmatic’. He said nothing of the sort.
Heh – you accuse Harper of lying. Hmm, ted, such a description seems to fit you.
It is going to take waaaaay more kool-aid than that to drown out his record, ET. You should trying some independent thinking every now and then, ET, instead of dogmatic obeissance to Dear Leader. It’s your kind of automatic “everything the leader does is great” thinking that got conservatives into the Mulroney mess in the first place. And now you’ve given birth to The Right Honourable Stephen Brian Jean Harper. Well done!
For the first time in three elections, I’m actually looking forward to the next one.
ET: correct as always.
Re: Rex Murphy’s comments
“the conservative party is Canada’s party” you will be hearing a lot of that going forward. SH’s speech last night was an argument that the CP is reclaiming that moniker – we want to own the brand.
Nice to see Ted spinning like a top. Can’t wait until he corkscrews himself into the ground while screeching the same tired and deliberate lies that he’s been banging out for the past few days.
Keep it up. You must love the sound of your own voice, ’cause the rest of the country has obviously tuned you out.
ET it is like speaking to a rock attemping any reasoning with Ted. Why do you keep wasting your excellent rebuttal points on this clod? He is a brain-dead liberal and no amount of logic or facts will make the slightest impact on him. Toronto is filled with them as the last election once again showed.
Ted:
If we waited for a perfect leader one would need to have Jesus of Nazareth on the ballot; but He seems to be otherwise occupied.
Perhaps we should content ourselves with reasonable leadership rather than appalling LIEberal leadership.
So far no one has accused PMSH of allowing rampant theft of the public purse on his watch, denuding of the military, etc.
Moreover, they have had the good sense to begin the process to get rid of the neo-nazi Lucy, aka Richard Warman, CHRC free speech money hustlers.
Now Warren Kinsella has weighed in to support Mr. Ignatieff. Just what the LIEberal party needs is further support from those implicated in the “ADscam” debacle and their acolytes.
The completion of LIEberal house cleaning has not yet been fully initiated. Moreover, the last election results would suggest PMSH has increased his mandate to govern. One can grouse and snipe from the sidelines, but that ‘pheasantasy’ has been flushed from the Harper=”Bush”!
Your misapplication of ideological blinkers keeps you from accepting the new reality that LIEberals are no longer in control; and further that they have reduced currency among the electorate.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
Frankenstein Battalion
2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
At best, Harper is a pragmatic, incremental, conservative. I say “at best” because we have not yet seen many “increments”.
The resolution is meaningless. At best, he neuters the worst the federal HRC can do, leaving the provincial ones to run amuck. Far better that he institute something like the court challenges program, where anyone railroaded by an HRC can go before a real court, all expenses paid.
THAT would put the breaks on HRC nonsense, without causing an uproar.
Someone run with this, OK?
Ted,
ET is very correct regarding income trusts. Most corporations were poised to convert to income trusts, thereby eliminating any corporate taxes on themselves. Income trusts were flawed in design, which is why his hand was forced.
Taxes, he’s cut them like crazy, and I believe its good for the country. As to a deficit, I don’t like it anymore than the next person, but when you see most of the Western world entering a recession, I don’t see it as being traumatic. During hard times you need to increase spending to stimulate the economy, and during the good times you pay down the debt, which is exactly what Harper’s been doing.
As to formal information requests…I’m not sure who’s to blame with regards to that, but they certainly need to be shaken up. I think Canada needs to take greater steps to make information about government action more available to the public in an easy to understand, easy to access manner. Having read various reports about a year ago regarding the number of information requests that get turned down for the stupidest reasons (on average someone requesting information was turned down 30% more often over the phone than when they arrived in person, all for the same requests).
The Cadman affair was ridiculous. The cons offered him money to his family in the form of life insurance, and then when it came to light, Harper lied about what was on the tape. It’s sad to see Harper refusing to take responsibility for his gross misconduct of his office.
As to the senate, I really hope some momentum can be gained and we can throw those old farts out of the senate once and for all.
My temptation would be to say Kady is looking South over the DMZ.
In Kady O’Malley’s defence: the brain trust at the CPC does not let reporters into the policy workshops which means the media are operating on second hand information.
Frankly this is pretty dumb.
But many thanks to Gord Tulk for first hand information.
today is a good day! one big step closer.
Thank you Gord; change comes one step at a time.
🙂
Ted is on planet Liberal, far out of the realm of reality. Hardly blame him. Given the state of the Liberals at this point who would want to face reality?
Thanks Gord, keep us informed with the facts.
BTW, is Kady Oh! a graduate of Ryerson?
I guess the Conservatives are too liberal for Ted. Maybe they are, except they aren’t the thieving incompetents the LPC are. So what.
Ted’s comment about income trusts is laughable. What is the LPC position on income trusts – to let banks become business trusts? Give your head a shake.
re: no press in the workshops
Like a sausage factory some things are better left unseen in theopinion of some. Personally I think that met canadians would be fascinated by the process and how vigorously new policy is vetted.
I’m pretty sure the plenary session will be televised on cpac and it could be just as entertaining as today’s sessions were.
Jesus just read an update on ko’s blog where she intimates that some resolutions might not be debated at the plenary.
Here’s how it works – if there is someone at the “no” mic at the introduction of a resolution to the floor they will have thirty seconds to have at it. Sort of like the policy version of speed-dating. If there is enough interest and time more than three people per side will get to speak. Keep in mind that they have already been debated in one minute segments in breakout sessions today.
This kind of mis-reporting (to be generous) would not be happening if the media was allowed in.
Watching Jason kenny speak – arguably the hardest working mp. Excellent speaker too. I am in awe of the caliber of the quality of the southern Alberta school system kenny harper Solberg ablonczy(?) etal.
One last thing on the quality of debate on policy and other issues here. If there is a party in north America in letting the grassroots be heard and actually develop policy in a more democratic and transparent manner I am not aware of it.
Gord Tulk: “This kind of mis-reporting [on Kady O’Malley’s part] (to be generous) would not be happening if the media was allowed in.”
I’m not sure I understand your point here, Gord. Why would members of the CPC want to let the media in on their deliberations–deliberations that you admit are quite remarkable in that the “grassroots [are] … heard and actually develop policy … democratic[ally] and transparent[ly] …”?
I can only imagine what the lib-left media cheerleaders might do with the wrangling back-and-forth of the CPC grassroots as they wrestle with policy.
My sense is that CPC policy development should be closed-door, open only to party members, and that members of the MSM should learn to hold their fire if they aren’t sure … wouldn’t that mean demonstrating integrity and professionalism in doing their jobs?
Is that too much to ask?
batb:
In Montreal 2004 all of the sessions were televised by CPAC if memory serves. I spoke with one of the on air hosts and he told me he considered it some of thebest political television he had ever seen. If turnout at the polls is a problem (and it is) I think public airing of some of the most compelling aspects of the political process could go a long way towards helping boost interest and participation.
me no dhimmi said:
“there are no votes to be gained [from hassling the HRC]”
What about all of us Conservatives who DIDN’T VOTE because of the hanging issue of the HRCs? Just think about voting for Harper-who-said-nothing-about-HRCs made me want to vomit. If only he’d say SOMETHING to give us hope.
“This will not be adopted as government policy because it would be rightly perceived as a net vote loser, i.e., advocates are already voting Con (there being no alternative)”
If the CPC votes for the repeal of s.13 and Harper ignores that vote there will certainly be an alternative in the next election.
A targeted alternative aimed at 20 marginal seats where the CPC either won or lost by less than 2000 votes. You can read more at my place.
Running solidly right wing candidates as spoilers will deny Harper any hope of a majority and likely invoke the 3 strikes and you’re out rule. Better still, by targeting a very small number of ridings the risk of a Liberal government is minimized.
Free Speech is not a partisan issue – it is simply the right thing to do.
me no dhimmi said:
“there are no votes to be gained [from hassling the HRC]”
I for one stopped donating to the cons when they did not stand up to denounce the HRC’s section 13 Western Standard’s carton charges.
Thanks, Gord. I see what you’re getting at. I wonder, however, if the Canadian public is much interested in “some of the most compelling aspects of the political process” or if their public airing on C-PAC would “help … boost interest and participation.”
If it did, that would be GR-8.
Kady sounds like she checked to make sure she had all her malaria and diptheria shots before going hunting wildebeast in downtown Winnipeg.
Poor dear.
Don’t cheer just yet; P-203 passed at policy breakout session Friday, so that’s the first hurdle, but the second is that the 12 resolutions that passed have to be whittled down to 10 to be presented at Saturday’s plenary session, via Friday’s delegates voting on which resolutions are the most significant, and we won’t know the result of that til Saturday. And then it has to pass plenary vote on Saturday. Beyond that, I’d trust the Leader and Caucus to refine the implementation to ensure that there are no more HR kangaroo courts and that anyone accused under the act has the same rights to a fair trial as any other accused in Canada.
Thanks, Gord, for your interesting posts here.
Just for the record: Stephen Harper actually went to school in Ontario—when the public system counted for something! But I get your point here about the fine Alberta Conservatives, of which Harper is now a member.
I agree with you about Jason Kenny: too bad HE’S not the Minister of Justice. (That Nicholson’s still there is most disappointing.)
Re the HRCs: unlike many, I haven’t removed my vote from the Conservatives yet, but I am withholding my donations, which are going to our brave HRC fighters. I’ve let the PM and Nicholson know this on a number of occasions.
Jay Currie, I really like your idea of running truly conservative candidates in key ridings next election, if Harper at al don’t act on the HRC file. If they don’t, I’ll be totally dispirited and even, finally, really angry at the Conservative government, which I’ll then consider to have truly betrayed its own constituency, e.g., people like me who self-censor all the time and are kept out of the public debate on serious issues because of the chill the HRCs have caused all across this country: “You may believe what we do—or else.” Canadians are no longer free citizens because of this despicable state of affairs.
Anthony:
It passed with the greatest margin of almost all the resolutions yesterday. It is one of the ten (avery high placed source told me that 11 resolutions passed in one session 12 and 13 from the other two). And well pass the plenary by a huge – near unanimous margin this afternoon.
Anthony:
It passed with the greatest margin of almost all the resolutions yesterday. It is one of the ten (avery high placed source told me that 11 resolutions passed in one session 12 and 13 from the other two). And well pass the plenary by a huge – near unanimous margin this afternoon.
Of course, nothing coming out of the convention will be binding on the government, and even if it was, that wouldn’t mean it would be translated into legislation or policy. This is true of every party, provincially or federally.
“This will not be adopted as government policy because it would be rightly perceived as a net vote loser”
MND,
Despite the potential negative media spin, the alternative is to anger the most vocal of Conservatives and indeed end up a net vote loser. A far more dangerous proposition.
Take away Human Rights……………Sounds like Nazi Germany to me. You guys have a lot to fear. Does this include calling you Tories Facists? That’s true.