Comments open for reaction. I’m watching the other one.
And based on his facial expressions… she’s killing him.
A better sign – traffic has taken The Corner down.
By the way… Bush comes up less frequently in the US debates than he does the Canadian ones. How ironic is that?
A good debate, Biden was competetent, but boring, too detail obsessed, and stumbled badly on the same sex “marriage” comment, among others. Palin in a walk, despite some stumbles and too many mentions of the word “maverick”.
And I don’t know if I’ll be the first to say it, but I will – Gwen Ifill performed admirably as moderator.
Oh… and the reason I skipped the Canadian debate? Simple. I watched, or tried to, the French language one. And my impression after that is that the broadcast consortium are rock hard stupid.
Whoa! Harper suddenly takes the lead, and Dion falls to third. (34, 29, 28)
Funny how the CTV crew is declaring Moonbat May the winner. Hilarious, typical MSM. Mind you, with their giving props to Moonbat, it might swing some doe-eyed voters away from the Fiberals to the Greenies.
Anyone catch Adrianne Carr? She was Green party leader here in BC for awhile, she’s been on the sidelines for awhile, but she’s as batty as May. Must be a requirement for their team membership.
RE: “Lizzy’s insane” — I found May’s finger pointing to be offensive. It was nasty and showed poor control of her body language. I did not notice anyone else doing that. How would it have looked if Harper had pointed his finger at her in a similarly aggressive fashion?
Lori said… “Layton now suddenly makes huge leap from about 11% to 23% in “who won debate” poll. Obviously some NDP boys are pumping the PCs hard somewhere.”
A big increase in support. Maybe those NDP supporters can run a telethon, raising money for Jack to pay for his next hernia operation, then he can prepare for the next debates, saying that he didn’t pay for health care out of his own pocket.
JimmyF…the only reason Dion referenced a mammal [otters]is because insects are too difficult to articulate.Example: bizzy bubble beeze,or ard working hants.
Paikin was alright. However, I marvelled at the Arts questions: All four of the other leaders disagree with the cuts the government made to the arts. Are Conservatives simply barbarians?
Barbarians?
Oh, and I had to leave the room every time Layton spoke. He was unbearable as he jumped between faux-outrage and faux-concern.
And Lizzie May about politicians keeping their promises: I used to be a lawyer, but when I became a policitian, I feel hardly better than….
…and I shouted at the TV, “…a lawyer!!!”
If anyone wants an exhibition of the obnoxious, it’s alive on the Van Dusen call in show on CPAC.
Liberal rep, Susan Smith is the Queen of obnoxious.
If the media has anything to do with it, Harper will be lucky to get even a minority.
“Lizzy sez the poor dears need literacy classes to keep down crime.” — I was glad Harper got a chance to respond on this one. There is this perception that Cons cut literacy programs — when what they cut were aspect of the literacy bureaucracy (academics getting grants for newletters, conferences, etc.) — in favour of more money to actually support literacy training. Many people on the left do not understand this. Why would they? The press has made no effort to clarify this — nor many other really quite positive Conservative initiatives.
Among the five leaders, all seated at a round table at the National Arts Centre here, Dion had the quietest demeanour, rarely raising his voice and, though English is a language he is still learning, he made his points with relative clarity. While other leaders, including Duceppe, often interrupted others in a format that allowed for some candid exchanges, Dion generally waited for moderator Steve Paikin to call upon him and offered his own sharp criticisms of other leaders.
– excerpt from the National Post’s assessment.
Apparently, he even brought Paikin an apple.
Harper pulling away – 37% to 27% Layton, 26% Dion.
Keep voting
http://www.theglobeandmail.com
The most striking thing about the debate was how calm Harper was as all four of them, but especially Layton, launched very personal attacks on him. My 10 year old marvelled at their rudeness. Harper never did the same, called everyone by their first names, and was calm.
Dion, attacked twice by Layton in that offensive manner that Layton does, nearly lost his cool the second time.
No one bothered attacking Duceppe or the crazy green lady, and Layton took a few mild Harper attacks.
But Harper took the full brunt of 4 crazied lefties, and never got even a bit flustered. I truly admire that.
Ham wrote… “Paikin was alright. However, I marvelled at the Arts questions”
Ambush TV. “Important” issues were being discussed? Heh. The lead topics as chosen by the media… The 3 lead topics most important to Canadians: economy, health care and… art funding? Talk about serving one up on a tee for the opposition. Paikin stated at the beginning of the debate that questions were chosen from over 4,500… what percentage of those 4500 were about arts funding? C’mon! Who of the 3 — CTV, CBC, and Global — managed to get that one in? Wheeling and dealing like corrupt judges in Olympic figure skating
40% to a leftist tie @ 25%
After watching U.S. vice-presidential debate, I switched to Canadian….hmmmm….. panel (?) My son went into hysterical laugh and I still wonder how that table from Air Canada lounge at some remote airport was transported to the studio ?
Oddly, the most CPC friendly major media headline from today’s debate so far is from the Red Star:
Harper Hits Back in Debate
A more assertive Prime Minister Stephen Harper pushed back at his four political rivals Thursday night, charging their prescriptions for addressing the financial slowdown would wreck the Canadian …
I wonder how long that will last as the lead Toronto Star headline. Not until tommorrow morning, I’d bet.
Harper did ok, all things considered. I wish he took the gloves off though.
Can’t wait for the Canadian Press take on this.
“And Biden’s “facts” are already being challenged on the news networks.”
Ah, so by your definition of losing a debate, you must disagree with Stephen Taylor that Harper won the debate when he was corrected so constantly.
Harper won the so called debate. Very cool person with all the nattering around him. Always answered in very clear and concise tone, didn’t back track, defended his government policies and very good delivery.
Voted in G&M poll. Harper leading at 41%
Tough call on who should win the Castro trophy … better to have 5 (can’t forget MSM) large trophies designed by someone on an arts grant. Win-win-win-win-win-win (“Artist”).
I have zero respect for Canadian news outlets anymore. The media are disgusting liberal bias whores.
Oh that felt good.
Seriously, though, I would love to court a Conservative media mogul from the US (with plenty of capital) to take the wind out of the sails of the Canadian media.
Just caught this bit again on CPAC.
Right after Mr. Harper says “I believe all you guys are sincere in your beliefs”, showing some class, Layton pipes off “where’s your (policy), inside your sweater”? What a slimey pr!ck Layton is.
Biden was too detail obsessed? Isn’t that what we want from our politicians? Details so that they can, you know, try and back up their points with facts? All Palin did was say Maverick 434 times and not answer 3/4 of the questions and repeat and re-repeat her talking points. Saying that, however, she wasn’t terrible, but that isn’t saying much.
Paikin was fair and tried his best to even out the 4 on 1 swarming problem. I loved how he smoked out the smirking weasel Layton on how he had used the Shouldice private medical clinic.
Meanwhile, over at the Red Star, Harper is also winning the poll, by more or less the same margin: 40:25:25.
It’s kind of pathetic though – whereas at the Globe over 4500 people have voted, at the Star only about 200 people have done so.
That paper should be heading for financial failure sooner rather than later.
I have also noticed that the comments that they post on their articles have been increasingly right-wing, even with moderation (and they definitely moderate much more than the Globe from my experience).
Make your vote.
http://www.thestar.com
Can someone please slap Lizzie May [I please have a brain] until she has enough sense to realize you cannot compare Sweden and Germany to Canada. Both countries could fit in Canada’s mass several times. Our cost of transporting goods likely exceeds their total energy demand. Do I also have to mention their tax burdens compared to ours.
While you are at it you can also kick Terry Mileski (sp?) in the groin for wasting valuable oxygen making the same case for Norway.
jcp: When you mentioned a nerf bat, I envisioned an incredibly entertaining debate. It would still hurt the ears, brain, and intellect as this one did, but it would be a lot easier on the eyes to see pompous politicians being whacked with a foam bat. I am totally for this form of entertainment. Bring it on.
I’m pretty sad about how truly awful the televised debates are. They’re so terrible it’s impossible to sort out who’s saying what. How am I supposed to tell that how badly they’re lying if nobody ever shuts up?
Stephen Harper’s finest moment, IMO. Never has a sitting prime minister been subject to such a coordinated attack in a debate, and never has a pm acquitted himself so admirably in the face of specific, tough points.
The usual survival tactic in such debates is to deflect onto your opponents and onto other topics. Mr. Harper took each piece of proverbial bait, calmly, and chewed it up and spit it out. It substantially hollowed out his opponents, unless they think endless reiterations of “fifty billion/corporations” etc etc is the same as credible policy.
As the debate went on, it became clear that there was only one person in the room who deserves to be pm. Harper has his feet on the ground, a thorough knowledge of the details, and a knowledge of how things realistically work. He knows what is and isnt’ unrealistic; the others came across as moving play pieces on a board game called “Shameless Pandering Politics.”
Harper had a monopoly on credibility, in a way that should be apparent to anyone who’s not entirely partisan.
This particular format revealed the candidates way more than the ol’ standing in front of a podium and speechifying ever did. Anyone can speechify — witness May and Layton’s rote little set pieces. Mr. Harper can think on his feet; he doesn’t come across as being “on message” so much as smart and capable.
BTW, I thought Paikin did a great job and was balanced and non-partisan and fair. When various candidates pointedly evaded questions — Jack and May — he didn’t let them off the hook, and he had a good sense of what was happening in the room.
This pig-pile debate was a national disgrace. Annex Alaska & Palin for PM!
“But let’s try to remember all of the things many of the conservative commenters here have said about her next time someone wants to whine that Democrats are sexist and unfair with Palin.
“a single mom, because who could stand that thing?”
“the quintessential obnoxious fat boorish slovenly socialist Canadian broad””
The difference, of course, is that the insults hurled at Palin are for the most part untrue whereas, on the other hand, with May “if the shoe fits”
HT.
I don’t know if anyone caught a picture of Lizzie before yesterday’s election debate. She showed up wearing one of those Mao jackets that were so popular years ago amongst the hippie set. If you can find it and know how to use photo-shop,a picture of May,Dion,Layton,and that french guy as the ‘gang of four” would be very ‘appropos’.
Regarding the globe and mail poll.,Between 10:07 p.m.and 10:09 p.m.,my time,Layton gained about 400 votes.Hmmmm.
Does Lizzie realize the amount of pollution created to produce, package and distribute all of the food she is eating? What a Hippo-crite!
May was the clear leader … vote Green!!!! or NDP!!!! … can’t remember what Taliban Jack said, but it was good!!!!
Good is better than bad after all!!!!
[quote]I have zero respect for Canadian news outlets anymore. The media are disgusting liberal bias whores.[/quote]
Postscript,
The CBC had the Post leader interviews after the debate. All the reporters were Mad as Hell at Layton for attacking Dion. The Anchor (CBC) commented but I don’t think he realized the significance. I have been involved in several productions (insider) of US political coverage and have never seen such a display of an obvious Media conspiracy, even OFF camera. YES they are Liberal Whores.
Duceppe would be an excellent leader if he were a federalist.. Why have someone in a debate that is not interested in Canada. Dizzy Lizzy fits that same mold; she is committed to the United Nations. Canadians are more than fit to make their own mistakes..
Dion: His Political rational sounds like it came from a socialist in France! I then found out that he is a Citizen of France. He is IMO a EU Communist on a mission
USA debate: Joe, & all those that HATE America, always express concern for the global opinion of Americans. Since 9/11 I don’t give a dump
Green shift = National. Energy. Program. Period.
[quote]I have zero respect for Canadian news outlets anymore. The media are disgusting liberal bias whores.[/quote]
Postscript,
The CBC had the Post leader interviews after the debate. All the reporters were Mad as Hell at Layton for attacking Dion. The Anchor (CBC) commented but I don’t think he realized the significance. I have been involved in several productions (insider) of US political coverage and have never seen such a display of an obvious Media conspiracy, even OFF camera. YES they are Liberal Whores.
Duceppe would be an excellent leader if he were a federalist.. Why have someone in a debate that is not interested in Canada. Dizzy Lizzy fits that same mold; she is committed to the United Nations. Canadians are more than fit to make their own mistakes..
Dion: His Political rational sounds like it came from a socialist in France! I then found out that he is a Citizen of France. He is IMO a EU Communist on a mission
USA debate: Joe, & all those that HATE America, always express concern for the global opinion of Americans. Since 9/11 I don’t give a dump
Gah! I wake up to find Dion leading in the G&M poll.
34 for Dion to 33 for Harper.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com
Vote
Dion 34%; Harper 34% at the Globe.
VOTE!
P.S. Harper won for sure: he got better and better–and more time–as the evening went on.
There was a debate last night? Who cares, who actually watches this crap? I already know who I’m voting for and I’m not going to change my mind based on a well placed barb backing a bad argument. I’m not after a wit with a sharp tonque, I want a leader not a smart ass to run my country. This nation has already had that train wreck, his name was Trudeau.
I personally would have preferred if Steve Paikin had used a tazer to shut up the blabbering fools.
A few points:
– The way dion tried to look sincere and understanding every time the camera came to him was pathetic as was his English. If folks believe he was more intelligeable than before then I’m glad I missed that.
– May shouldn’t have been there, period. There was a time when her finger pointing, constant interupting and calling the PM a liar would have earner her a challenge to a duel. Maybe she could move to Sweden.
– Duceppe shouldn’t have been there either. The Bloc is not a national party. It cannot do anything to represent the ROC.His biggest beef was he wanted the “profits” Quebec deserves, not like Alberta and Saskatchewan.
– Layton deserves the Big Bad Oil/Bush Bashing award. His sweater jokes got old fast and the “I feel your pain” man of the people was stale. His hand gestures almost made me wish that I could reach out and break a few wrists.
– The PM had much more poise and tact than I could ever muster. Everyone complained about no platform of promises but totally missed the point that he was telling them and Canada, of what his government had already accomplished and what they planned to do. The CPC has been keeping promises while everyone else is just promising the world with money they don’t got.
– The post game media were obviously watching something different than what I saw. Just how many senate seats are vacant right now anyway? All in all, I’m not sure if it was worth staying up past my bed time (I start work @ 6am Atlantic time).
I’m the Texas Canuck and I approve this comment.
I think every University/college student in Canada invented a new game last nite.
Every time the word Bush is used you drink.
IMO that was not a debate at all, all i seen was a gang attack, very little debate amongst all & whats with liz Gawd i wish they had cut her Mike she would not Shut-the-F***-Up even when it was not her turn.
I did not see the PM once interupt his opponents, I dunno maybe that was the strategy, Let them babble.
When the PM took on Dion near the start I thought Dion was going to cry.
As for the MSM saying layton & lizzie were the winners, Well look at it this way Who has had more time to say Anything about nothing.
Best line of the Nite has to go to Duceppe When asked when you become PM what will be the first thing you will do?
Duceppe said he knows HE won’t ever be PM, But Niether will 3 of you sitting here. Note he looked right at Dion,Layton & Diz.
bryanr –
“As for the MSM saying layton & lizzie were the winners,” etc.
layton may have been the winner in the eyes of MSM, but he still is a communist and needs to to be called on it.
Geez watching that circus last evening should kill any push for proportional representation for a long time. That is what Parliament would be like under PR. It would be Question Period 24/7.
My take: Harper was cool under fire. Dion was better in English than I expected but my expectations were low. Layton is a master of cheap shots. May is a rude heckler. Duceppe is irrelevant to the English debate (I flipped to Palen/Biden when Duceppe spoke).
All you brilliant folk around here calling Layton a “communist” are probably the same ones who argue that the Liberals are part of “The Left”, and that Bush’s bail out and administration is “Socialist”. Now you’re all welcome to contest the meanings of those terms, attempting even to re-define them, but as of now you’re really stretching. I can’t think of a worse misapplication of labels.From the Left:
“Saying that Bush’s fascist move this week is actually the same thing as “socialism” just because it involves the state and capitalists is a bit like saying that cancer-causing cigarettes are the same thing as chemotherapy because they both involve cancer and its spread.
Paikin did a great job moderating a very flawed debate format. I was astonished when two members of the CBCs “At Issue” panel declared May the winner. May? Really? Her constant background nattering when others were speaking was annoying in the extreme. She seemed more like a comedy club heckler than a political leader.
The most notable difference was Harper’s command of the issues. His ability to recite specific policies was very impressive. The others confined themselves to generalizations, dogma, platitudes or promises to “consult”. Harper repeatedly got into the details.
Harper may not have won the battle of the clever soundbite, but for anybody who watched the debate in its entirety he stood head and shoulders above his adversaries.
Dion looked lost and frequently confused.
Layton confined himself to slogans and soundbites.
Duceppe had no business being there.
May needed to STFU when it wasn’t her turn to speak.
Big mouth Lizzie May is running for Liberal Environment Minister. She should just get it over with and admit it.
The debate was an unwatchable cringefest.
That was no debate.
It was a smear job of Canada’s Prime Minister on the part of the other candidates and the media. Paikin was not able to moderate, as all the participants but Prime Minister Stephen Harper were yelling out, interrupting, and going over their allotted time.
What a free for all. It was worse than a TV wrestling match where you expect wrestlers to be brazen, rude, a**holes. That wasn’t what I was expecting from Canada’s so-called political leaders.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper needed nerves of steel to stay calm in that melee. He won hands down. He told the country what the CPC has done and what they plan to do. The others simply slashed and burned the CPC platform without, for the most part, telling us what they planned to do THAT WAS DOABLE.
IMO, Ellie May and Duceppe should never have been at the table. Neither of them can form a government and they were the loudest, rudest, and most intemperate participants. The word BULLY comes to mind.
Anyone else notice that Mr. Peace in The World, Jack Layton looks like he’d rather have a fistfight with Harper than a debate?
*
i was thinking info-mercial… sort of
a political “hair club for men.”
turned it off after 10 minutes.
*
Layton”s”Kitchen table issues”…sure Jack. May insults not only my intelligence but that of the Canadian electorate as a whole…40% plus of whom are illiterate.
“40% plus of whom are illiterate.”
T.S., be nice to the people who could end up handing Harper a majority.