Screw you Dion

89 Replies to “Screw you Dion”

1. Rhetorical question of the day: if the carbon tax is so bad, why did the senior economist for TD Bank Don Drummond and Tom D’Aquino of Canadian Council of Chief Executives endorse it?
   Because both these lick-spittals are part of the “family compact” of central control. They are both closet commies. Don Drummond has shilled for the Liberals before, as has D’Aquino. They are the Taronna “status quo” crowd – don’t rock the boat mentality.

2. Bluetech:
   “I wouldn’t even give Dion the credit of seeing this as a ‘screw the West’ policy.”
   This is what I commented on WK’s site:
   No c-tax on gasoline or diesel – the number one source of CO2 emissions and the one people can do the most to change (i.e. buy more efficient vehicles, drive less). And the one item that is purchased by consumers across the country.
   But it proposes a tax on heating oil and gas and fossil-generated electricity.
   Alberta and Saskatchewan are almost 100% dependent on fossil-generated electricity and will be for decades to come and they use – almost exclusively – natural gas and propane for heat.
   Quebec has 100% hydro-generated electricity and a large majority of homes and businesses are heated using hydro (sold at below market rates that also increase the amount of equalization that Que receives – I digress).
   The tax refunds and other programs are pan-canadian in scope and offer no relief to areas of the country harder hit by the c-taxes than others
   Net/Net this is a significant wealth transfer from AB and SK to Quebec and to a lesser degree other provinces.
   Coincidence?
   Does a bear butt-belch in the forest?

3. Still waiting for our great leader (Eddie $$$$) to fire a warning shot accross the bow of the sinking ship Liebrano. You raped Alberta with the first NEP. NEVER AGAIN!!!!

4. I believe Professor Snidely will take his windfall of money to purchase his pals “carbon credits” in China. Then he can unjustly claim that he has fixed our climate problem. Moe must be chortlin’and counting his cash.
   Nice legacy, Steffie, you will cause the breakup of Canada as we know it then your eastern friends can really freeze in the dark. They won’t be able to afford the heating bill. (course we’ll sell it to
   It should be asked how much of this money would go to Moe Strongs pocket for “carbon credits”?
   Ya want a legacy? We’ll give you a legacy. You can go down in Canadian history as the puffin who broke up Canada. (But we’ll sell you our oil for a…reasonable price) yeah that’s the ticket.

5. I think Dion’s greeny weeny tax grab is to keep Quebec and Ontario (Toronto) in the manner they’ve become accustomed to. Alberta and BC will be the majority vote in the next election, but alas Dion still thinks Quebec and Ontario matter-they don’t and haven’t been a player for a number of years.
   For the record, the East isn’t Quebec and Ontario they are “Central Canada”, Give Dion hell Alberta and Sask. because if it’s good for Ontario and Quebec sure as shooten it’s bad-bad-double bad for Alantic Canada. We’ve been bending over and taking it up the neither region for decades, the only votes that have ever counted were in Ontario and Quebec and it does brings joy to me ole ticker thinking the West Coast now has the power to bend Ontario and Quebec over the table and do you know what to them.
   The leftards green plan is just that, retarded to the extreme. What does funding “Child Care” have to do with pollution???

6. Roberto is correct to be asking why Mr. Ed hasn’t commented. Here are two mitigating points:
   1.Iris Evans – AB minister of finance has come out and condemned it (on Rutherford).
   2. At this point this is only a policy promise from an opposition leader – it’s not even ratified party policy. Heads of state do not usually comment on opposition leader pronouncements. (however it would be helpful if Mr. Ed’s staff would put out a release explaining that as the reason for no comment).

7. [quote]Nothing to do with the environment. And, his plan will plunge Canada into greater and greater deficits as the Liberals try to keep up with funding their promises. The environment? Nothing will be done.[/quote]
   ET,
   The Grand Plan has nothing to do with the Environment.. Never has. If you follow the dollars it’s the US that is expected to pay the lions share.
   DION just wants a CAP & Trade, hidden in the small print, that’s what the folks @ Franks Restaurant have told him they want.(Gore et)
   The US is been placed in a financial “BOX”. NO Drilling, No Nuclear, NO technology solutions. Once CAP & TRADE. We will be doomed.. stuck.
   All the evil forces will insure the US stays in the BOX
   In Canada the Indian Act may actually provide a simple solution.. Convince the First Nations to open up tribal associations.. An Open House for membership.. such that we may choose to be ruled by their leadership. They have individual rights including smoking, guns, and taxation. This would give us a second chance to get things right..
   BTW. The AGW claim a positive feedback theory is caused by GHG. The Chances that this hidden destruct button exists may be found some where in the 4.6 billion years of the planets development without burning to a crisp or freezing over completely. TOTAL NONSENSE!

8. Alberta already has a Carbon Tax and Cap & Trade- I think for over a year now!!! So the demonized Albertans are WAY AHEAD of Mr. Greeny.
   But, Alberta’s carbon tax is NOT a weasle way to grab money for social programs disguised as “environmental”.
   Instead, ALL industries have a carbon cap and must pay $15 tonne over the cap or they can trade with industries within the province.
   The money goes into an Alberta Innovation Fund which is, strangely enough, used for Environmental initiatives and innovations.
   So far many millions of carbon tax dollars have been collected from industries and that money is used for the environment.
   Industry has incentives to reduce all kinds of emmisions – not just the product we exhale (carbon dioxide).
   We don’t need no stinking Green Shaft from Ottawa Mr. Dion- no matter how many ads with Liberals giving us the Clap you air.

9. I just talked to a guy who is so angry with this carbon tax scam, that he has promised this.
   If Dion manages to get his carbon tax into play, in fact if any governments worsen our economy with useless, pointless carbon taxes, that he intends to cross the country lighting forest fires. I believe him!
   It sounds horrid, but what else can be done to make a point that Canadians are not going to take anymore rip off from our political thieves.
   I guess there are many ways to fight back. I hadn’t though of the devastation of forest fires. Now that I think about it, there are many ways to harass governments that don’t directly involve torches and pitchforks in Ottawa. I think it’s called eco terrorism, but from the other side.

10. Either Lance is a huge shareholder in Gas & Oil companies or he and Kate own a bunch of oil wells! Listen to the words he uses in his rant ….
    -” ‘WE’ won’t take this.”
    -” ‘WE’ won’t allow our Province’s wealth … (blah blah blah)”
    -” … a federal incursion into ‘OUR’ jurisdiction.”
    -” ‘WE’ will not allow another Easterner to kill ‘US’ … ”
    This is part of the frenzy that the Reformers (and Saskatchewan Party) Rightists have worked themselves into! They have this self righteous belief structure that is so evident in their anger and frustration.
    Lance … who exactly are the ‘we’ you are railing on behalf of? Why are you so in love with the big multi-nation Oil companies (unless as I mentioned, you are a HUGE shareholder or have oil on your property – in which case, I could have some sympathy for your rant) …. I’m JUST asking??!
    Love!
    LD

11. LD – the owners of the so called evil big oil are mostly just regular people who own mutual funds or some stocks or their money from their pension plans are invested in the stock market.
    If stock investments in the oil industry pay a profit many seniors and pensioners see their own profits rise.
    You would scream louder if the oil companies LOST money and stockholders and pension plans went belly up wouldn’t you?

12. Alberta’s Carbon Tax is One Year Old on July 1st!
    We don’t need your scam Dion!
    Published: Friday, March 09, 2007
    Well, some things you thought you’d never live to see. And one of them is an Alberta carbon tax, imposed by an Alberta government on Alberta energy companies, with the companies quietly nodding acceptance.
    That’s what the government introduced Thursday — a surprisingly tough bill that will force companies to reduce their CO2 emissions per barrel by 12 per cent starting July 1, or pay $15 per tonne into a technology fund.
    Call it a user fee. Or call it a technology incentive. Please go right ahead.
    But what it is, actually, is a tax on carbon users and producers that will fall most heavily on oilsands companies and coal-fired electricity plants.
    So it’s a carbon tax, the very spectre that made Alberta shudder when the federal Liberals mentioned it.
    But this carbon tax has an environmental goal. It will give companies a real incentive to lower emissions, while fostering technology that makes the job easier. And the money stays inside Alberta.
    Companies can’t escape by lowering production. What counts is emissions per unit, not total emissions. So the tax can be skimmed without bringing the industry to a halt.
    The higher cost of doing business — “hundreds of millions a year,” according to Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers President Pierre Alvarez — may moderate investment, but it will also force the companies to comply.
    And one way for them to do that — get ready for it — will be through a system mirroring the Kyoto accord.
    The emission credits system so reviled by Kyoto haters will come to the province, although the purchases will be called “offsets” rather than credits.
    But it’s exactly the same idea; big emitters can pay better performers for the right to claim their credits.
    Throw in the plan for a huge CO2 pipeline to bury the stuff as deep as atomic waste, and the whole plan has elements of both Kyoto and more current thinking.
    The hard greenies will find plenty to complain about, of course. They call for absolute emission reductions right now. That would force production cuts, which is exactly what they want.
    And the plan only covers the largest companies that produce 70 per cent of Alberta’s emissions. This is a serious omission, because the smallest energy producers are often the most casual about emissions and pollution.
    Calgary Herald

13. relax i just fixed the problem
    B.R.I.C. plus Africa at least 30 or
    40 % increase by 2020.
    Canada will drop at least 30% from
    our total of 2%.

14. Until the carbon scam came along, I would never have believed bullshit could be pile so high.
    The real enemies in all this are those idiots who believe the religion of climate change. Without them, the kings of climate will have no clothes.

15. LD: Lance … who exactly are the ‘we’ you are railing on behalf of?
    ==================================
    Sorry WE left you out, LD, but it was deliberate. No big oil benefits to lefties like you. Better luck next time.

16. As a Vancouverite and proud Westerner, can I make a prediction about the next federal election?
    By all accounts, this idiotic, super-energized nanny state plan of Dion’s should ensure his own permanent demise and guarantee the Conservatives a Majority government.
    The key word there is “should”. That’s if the majority of Canadians had IQs average or above.
    But just watch as the huge swaths of Kool-Aid drinking Torontonians, Maritimers, and some Quebecers ensure that things pretty much stay same-old, same-old.
    What was that famous Einstein quote about doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results?!

17. Finished Lance? finsihed with your self-righteous tirade on, well, absolutely nothing? See, your rant proves that you live in a fantasy world. Your “article” contains the heaviest doses of fiction and misinformation I’ve read on this subject yet.
    For those of you how are interested in reality, you might want to try reading through the plan itself:
    http://thegreenshift.ca/pdfs/green_shift_book_en.pdf
    before adopting the opinion of a paranoid delusional conspiracy theorist.
    If you actually bothered to read the plan, Lance, you’d know that the plan itself is insanely simple to implement, because – get this now, are you ready? – it’s a matter of installing a carbon-tax and then reducing personal income taxes, corporate revenue taxes, and small business taxes.
    Hence a SHIFT in the incentives – incentives that the government has ready control over – towards cleaner production and investment.
    Wooooaaaah. Mind-bogglingly diabolical.
    You see, anyone with an ounce of reasonably working brain would come to the conclusion that this plan reads more like a fiscal platform – with tax cuts and tax credits for R&D investment that are likely to make Conservatives jealous (and Conservatives like Flaherty cream his pants).
    The plan details…get this now…$15 billion worth of tax cuts which, now calm yourself, will be equal to the amount of tax collected by the government through their carbon tax (and, yes, gasoline is exempted from the tax increase).
    In order to ensure REVENUE NEUTRALITY — which is biiig faaaaancy word for: government cuts taxes equal to what they raised them — the auditor general will happily comb through the accounting each year.
    But hey, I don’t expect you to trust the Auditor General (remember them? They’re the ones who blew the lid on the Sponsorship Scandel), because the notion that the govenrment can provide checks and balances on itself isn’t quite convenient to that Eastern government conspiracy theory.
    To all you loser Westerner conspiracy theorist who hate the East: get a life, get a decent rational brain, or get the hell out of the country.

18. When jt at June 22, 2008 1:28 PM, said . ..
    ** Rhetorical question of the day: if the carbon tax is so bad, why did the senior economist for TD Bank Don Drummond and Tom D’Aquino of Canadian Council of Chief Executives endorse it?
    Because both these lick-spittals are part of the * family compact * of central control. They are both closet commies. Don Drummond has shilled for the Liberals before, as has D’Aquino. They are the Taronna * status quo * crowd – don’t rock the boat mentality. **
    =================
    It brought this question and answer to mind. . .
    TD Bank Don Drummond: ** Where are we going to get a huge cash influx to make up for our card fraud and sub-prime losses?
    Dion: Don* woree my friend. Carbon tax and carbon tax. = TG

19. to Rob…That is the smartest thing I have heard come out of any Ontarian.. We will get the hell out of “your” country.
    That way, you can use your own military to shovel your streets the next time it snows.
    Follow Dion to your grave…you deserve him.

20. I am afeared that this whole approach by Dion and the Libranos allows Mr. Harper the room to move a little in that direction…and get away with it.
    Mark my words.

21. The trap
    When Et points out that none of the revenue of this tax is going to loans for industry upgrades, the pollution aspect of the scam is appearing. “Carbon Tax and ‘Evil Polluters'”
    Its a bait and switch scam the Greenies are desperate to keep going. They know the general public are not getting it. (courtesy Goldstien ,TorSun)
    CO2 is NOT a pollutant, CO, NO2 etc are. Since it is economically suicidal to attempt to control CO2 via industrial upgrades, the argument is “shifted” to pollution, which we have had some success in mitigating.
    Aside from all the other faults noted with the “Tax Shift”, this policy will make it impossible to attract capital or build refineries in this country anywhere. We need them to expand our economy by using the resources we HAVE.
    The anti-AGW group must be carefull in never allowing the discussion regarding CO2 to include pollution. Otherwise our argument becomes dilluted and lost in the background “noise” of Carbon Taxes
    Debunking the AGW cult is a top priority for Canada’s economic survival

22. that should be NO (not NO2)

23. Quote of the Day:
    “That is the smartest thing I have heard come out of any Ontarian..”

24. This is the best jpg from any Ontarian via TORedStar:
    “Carbon Knievel”.
    Check out the helmet!!
    Citoyen Dion’s goose is kaput when uberleft TORedStar lampoons him.
    http://www.cynasta2.com/jack/Carbon_Knievel.jpg

25. rob – I’ve read the report.
    You state:”it’s a matter of installing a carbon-tax and then reducing personal income taxes, corporate revenue taxes, and small business taxes.”
    So, how does this help the environment? That’s what we are all saying; it has nothing to do with the envt; it’s a tax grab, to buy votes.
    There are no incentives for developing new technology, there are no incentives or low cost loans to install new technology. Nothing.
    So, how does this lack of attention to developing the new technology and install it – help the environment? Hmmm?
    And don’t you think that the companies will simply pass on their increased operating costs (because of the taxes) on to the consumer? So, the costs of everything that is built using energy will increase. Cars, homes, food, clothing, everything.
    So, there won’t be any clean industries, because the govt isn’t investing in developing new technology. Or in low cost loans to companies to install new technology. Instead, the pollution will continue. And costs will rise and rise and rise.
    The fact that you can’t see that – well, stuck on stupid is the only image I can come up with. But it’s a fact. If you tax an industrial system, that tax will be passed right on to the consumer. That’s how it goes.
    But, Dion’s agenda doesn’t have anything to do with the env’t. If it did, he’d invest most of that money into low cost loans and incentives to our industries to install them.
    And remember, these are OUR industries. Industry isn’t some Evil Demon, though most leftists, happily living with their SUVs and computers, think that Industry-is-Evil. Industry is our economic mode, and those companies and factories are Canadian built. We built them according to the legal standards and engineering codes of the time. Just because we’ve changed our standards doesn’t mean that we throw baby and bathwater out.
    We have to enable ourselves to change our industrial technology. Dion’s plan doesn’t do that.
    That’s why it’s so obvious to almost all of us, that it’s a scam. He’s trying to find money. Anywhere. So that he can bribe the voters to vote for him.
    In true Liberal fashion, his bribe is first, money, money, money. Remember Martin’s election promises? I’ll give you this. And that. And more of this. Billions and billions.
    The second Liberal strategy is to make the voters feel Guilty. Sinful. For being ‘polluters’. Oh boy, is Dion tough. He’ll make those polluters pay. Humph. But those are OUR factories. So, he’s attacking us. Taking our money and not assisting us to develop and install new technology. No way.
    He just wants the money so he can bribe the voters to vote for him. Typical Liberal. Bribes, bribes and paper sacks of money.

26. ET, you don’t really expect a logical response do you?
    If you don’t agree with Rob, you have to get out of Canada.
    Stuck on stupid is putting it mildly.

27. I see that Louise is off her ‘anger management’ meds again!

28. No, ET, you don’t get it – our aim as a society apparently is to put it to oil companies, to never be in bed with them. Ah, but those inconvenient perks in society – mass transit, automobiles, furnaces, they all use it. Enough of this shutting down of debate by sliming anyone who offers a different point of view; or worse still, hauling them in front of a phoney commission.
    Most of us can agree (I hope) that in their use of carbon fuels, humans are changing this planet. Some go as far as to say we are changing our global climate. Bottom line is oil lubricates our prosperity and yes, ruins our environment. Now, other people want to share in the capitalist, middle class dream, about 350 million of them in China alone. Who is going to develop the technology (which we aren’t close to yet) to replace carbon fuels? The answer is us, Canada, I mean. We need to because when the world stops using oil, we will use a significant contributory to our GDP, so we need to stay in the energy business. Government (taxpayers) will have to help, and the evil oil companies are already getting ready for the effort. The smart ones are anyway.
    Some people really need to give their head a shake – they live the most mass affluent style in the history of this planet, yet think we should punish “polluters.” What garbage, we’re the polluters.
    Surprisingly, Dion’s plan says virtually nothing about any serious effort. Frankly, no party has come close on this one, and Mr Harper should put some meat behind his plans for a real push to find an alternative fuel technology. Dion’s plan, does, however, have serious risks of unforeseen economic consequences, especially given the large bureaucracy required to run his new programs, almost none of them in the environment department. John Manley was asked point blank by Craig Oliver today on Canada AM what he thought of the Dion plan. He remarked that he thought it was courageous, but not crazy, as Harper has suggested. He gave two pieces of advice to Mr Dion; to not to be too sticky on the text so he has presented so far. Then Mr Manley said that he knew something about taxation (and used to know a lot more), and that Mr Dion should be wary of hidden economic traps arising out of this type of fiscal policy. I thought it was an ominous warning about fiddling in our economy at this time and space (inflationary pressures via demographic change and oil demand shocks). The Toronto-centric “national” press panel later missed Mr Manley’s point completely, to my unsurprise.
    Maybe that’s what Mr Harper meant when we said he would be screwed. You know, Harper the economist. Oh yeah, I forgot, it’s decided that carbon taxes to build day care centres will save the earth, and if Manley can’t see that, he MUST be another oil shill.
    Along with the rest of us.

29. Look, Dion is being dishonest and manipulative. That plan has nothing to do with the environment.
    Our Liberal ‘rob’ merely repeated the blurb from the cover page of the 48 page report, “Green Shi*t’. You have to read it through to see the intellectual dishonesty and blatant manipulation.
    Dion informs us the income will be 15 billion by the fourth year. He promises to return it all. Not in investment in technology or to those companies to enable them to install new technology. Nope.
    In goodies to the poor. A two-earner family with two children with a total earned income of $20,000 (???) will get 2,500 back in taxes a year. Wait, Mr. Dion; that family isn’t paying any taxes anyway.
    A $40,000 family will get $2,000.
    Now how does he explain this? He actually says that a reduction in tax rate from 15% to 13.5 is not a 1.5%reduction. Nope. It’s a 10% reduction. That’s intellectually dishonest. Most of us figure our tax rate, as a percentage, by reference to 100%. So, if we pay 15%, that’s 15 of 100. Moving to 13.5 is a 1.5 reduction. But Dion is manipulating us. He’s using 15 as if it were 100. So, 10% of 15 is 1.5.
    And he further tell us that the rate reduction from 22% to 21% isn’t a 1% cut. Nope. Dion’s booklet actually says it’s a 5% CUT!
    He says he’ll reduce corporate taxes by 1% within four years. Wow. Harper’s 2007 budget reduced the corporate tax rate from 22.12% to 15% in four years (by 2012). Dion doesn’t mention that.
    Harper reduced small business from 12 to 11 in 2008.
    Harper increased the lifetime capital gains exemption for small business from 500,000 to 750,000 in 2007. The first increase in nearly 20 years.
    Dion doesn’t mention that. Dion says he’ll ‘accelerate the capital cost allowance for green inventions’. That’s all. Harper, in 2007, now allows manufacturers to write off capital investments in machinery, using a two year 50% capital cost allowance.
    Dion says he’ll reduce emissions by 20% below 1990 levels by 2020. He doesn’t say how. He doesn’t set targets. And since our emissions have increased by over 26% since then..how’s he going to do this?
    Harper’s EcoAction plan, http://www.ecoaction.gc.ca sets mandatory targets. Mandatroy reduction by 18% by 2010. And every year after, 2%. The aim is reduction of emissions by 150 megatonnes by 2020.
    Oh, and Harper doesn’t mix up emissions and pollution. Dion does; he does that deliberately, because he’s using Guilt and Sin to manipualte us. As Dion says: “taxing pollution and making polluters pay’. Ahh, we Canadians are evil and we must be punished.
    Hmm. Do you suppose Dion is into Sadism and Masochism?
    Read Dion’s plan. It does nothing for emissions. Nothing for pollution. But heck, he does tell you how much you’ll all get back, particularly the poor among us.
    And notice the utter contempt for Canadian industry. We Canadians built our factories and industries. According to the legal standards of the day. Now, according to Dion, we are Polluters. And we must pay him, for our Sins.
    The utter ignorance, the arrogance, of such statements – are incredible.
    Does it do anything for Canada, for Canadian industry, for Canadians? Nope. But he sure hopes we’ll fall for it and elect him. That’s what it’s all about. A massive scam.

30. “To all you loser Westerner conspiracy theorist who hate the East: get a life, get a decent rational brain, or get the hell out of the country”
    I hope you’re not from Toronto, Rob. It’s already dangerously dumbed down with pond scum like you.
    So, you believe that a Liberal will collect a new tax on everything and give the money back?
    Duh.
    Do humanity a favour and get the hell off the planet.

31. IN the west the question is not why we should go,but
    why have we stayed so long?

32. It’s all a ploy by lieberal insiders to plant a platform plank so ludicrous that it will get them defeated at the polls again. That way Brutus Ignatieff and the rest of the dagger-holders can get rid of Dion and install their boy or I should say, Pierr’s boy, Justin as leader.

33. Librano$ are BAAaack!
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/stevekog/LibranosBack.jpg

34. Bobbie Rae by writing this Carbon Tax has ensured that Dion gets removed as leader at the December convention. The real power behind Dion has been strangely quiet.
    Could it be that he is now supporting Bobbie. Must have a new source of income and its not from food banks

35. Who paid off Dion’s leadership debt? Follow the money. Always follow the money.

36. john v. you are right. the only way we can turn canada from the path of socialism is through violent and illegal acts. i’ve said it many times, 60% of canadians are socialists and have never seen tax that they don’t like. we will not change this because the majority doesn’t want to.

37. Interesting how it’s “implementing a carbon tax THEN reducing personal income taxes, small business taxes, and corporate taxes. To quote Dark Helmet from Spaceballs: “When will THEN be NOW?”

38. “But it’s a fact. If you tax an industrial system, that tax will be passed right on to the consumer. That’s how it goes.”
    … and the consumer stops buying the product because it’s too expensive.
    “So, there won’t be any clean industries, because the govt isn’t investing in developing new technology.”
    … but the consumer buys clean technology because it’s cheaper. Companies respond by developing more clean products to satisfy a growing market for them. Companies that don’t adjust dissolve.
    Basic marketing, No?

39. Well I’ll be darned. Someone is posing as me. This is not mine: “Posted by: Louise at June 22, 2008 4:25 PM”