The U.S. Postal Service purchased more than 30,000 ethanol-capable trucks and minivans from 1999 to 2005, making it the biggest American buyer of alternative-fuel vehicles. Gasoline consumption jumped by more than 1.5 million gallons as a result.
The U.S. Postal Service purchased more than 30,000 ethanol-capable trucks and minivans from 1999 to 2005, making it the biggest American buyer of alternative-fuel vehicles. Gasoline consumption jumped by more than 1.5 million gallons as a result.
The point is not that petroleum is saved. The point is we tried to save petroleum.
right…………
by going to bigger vehicles with bigger engines.
impressive choice.
where’s ted kennedy????
over and over again, these great ideas blow up in the promoter’s faces, and yet they never learn
must be sweet to be a leftard and sample the ignorance is bliss utopia
The Left should be proud of this accomplishment!
… in making sure that many more brown people starve to death.
Is anyone surprised?
Government agency responds to government policy. Result: incompetence and waste.
The correct solution is to remove the engine.
Apply the JATO rockets used to help the Hercules transport aircraft off the tarmac.
Get yourself an environmentally approved Darwin award!
http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1995-04.html
You spend considerably less time in traffic by flying over it!!
Landing while difficult, could be improved by using VSTOL procedure and technology.
We can borrow some of Kate’s stockpile of N204 solid rocket fuel.
You know that Rocket Man theme is kinda catchy!
On the other hand one could use balloon technology but you need to watch out for other airliners as in the following story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Walters
Lawrence Richard Walters, nicknamed “Lawnchair Larry” or the “Lawn Chair Pilot”, (April 19, 1949 – October 6, 1993) was an American adventurer. He took flight on July 2, 1982 in a homemade aircraft, dubbed Inspiration I, that he had fashioned out of a Sears patio chair and 42 helium-filled weather balloons. He unintentionally rose to an altitude of 16,000 feet (3 miles or 4900 meters) and floated from his point of origin in San Pedro, California into controlled airspace near Long Beach airport. The account of his flight was widely reported in newspapers. The feat is noted as an urban legend, albeit one based on actual events.
By God I love that story, and we miss you Larry!
Thanks for all the hysterical bouts of laughter through tears.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP
Commander in Chief
Frankenstein Battalion
2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
You may not get your breakfast, but you will get your mail.
“The point is not that petroleum is saved. The point is we tried to save petroleum.”
Typical lefty rationalization.
“So what if Communism killed 100,000,000 people, and oppressed millions more? The point is, we TRIED to make thing better for everyone! And we’ll keep trying, damn you!”
From the article;
Three of the 26 ethanol- capable vehicles offered in 2007 were compact or mid-size cars, and the rest were large autos, pickups, SUVs or vans.
The big vehicles help automakers meet fuel-economy standards. General Motors Corp.’s “dual-fuel” 2008 Chevrolet Tahoe SUV was rated at 33.8 miles per gallon for city-highway driving, while a gasoline-burning model was at 20.5 mpg.
WOW! 20.5 to 33.8 mpg. Now that’s a bad thing.
Because they don’t build a comparable vehicle to what the post office used, it’s the fault of ethanol?
For those who didn’t know, corn isn’t the only thing that ethanol can be made from. There are many choices, including sugar beets, sugar cane, cull potatoes, and switch grass for example. That’s right, I said switch grass.
“The research — reported Monday by the National Academy of Sciences — is the most extensive ever conducted on the potential to grow switch grass for energy. The report offers a positive outlook for cellulosic biofuels.
The study indicates an energy gain of 540 percent when processing switch grass into ethanol, compared to 130 percent to 140 percent for corn.
The energy calculations take into account all products used in production, including fertilizer and diesel fuel.
Switch grass is a tall, warm-season pasture grass that can be cut for hay. When grown for fuel production, producers allow it to reach flowering stage and cut it only once a year.
The study also found that greenhouse gas emissions from ethanol made with switch grass were 94 percent lower than emissions from gasoline production.”
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1208&u_sid=10226234
Hugger
In fairness, most trucks are “flex-fuel” now. It allows them to claim tax credits as an “alternative fuel” vehicle despite the fact that their owners will probably never fill them with alternative fuels.
Actually, Greg/Hugger, there is a Quebec firm featured on a video on the CBC News website that makes ethanol from wood pulp waste and garbage. Now THAT is a good thing.
If you grow switch grass, then you’re not growing another crop…therefore removing agricultural land from producing food…when there is a supposed food crisis.
Ethanol from garbage…that’s the way to go.
That’s right, huggrifter, keep pulling more and more food out of the market, starve more brown people. Feel Good about yourself!
To the rest here who Do think: There was an article recently on icecap.us, in which a gentleman has developed biofuels from algae- 1000 gallons per acre, 30 times what corn produces. Now THAT is a good thing.
It’s obvious if they are burning ethanol they don’t care about CO2. I always wondered what the real goal here was. Just a way to get people to pay more taxes so government can pretend to control the weather.
If you ever fillup one of these flex fuel vehicles with ethanol, you won’t do it again. Huge waste of money, gets about 70% the mileage of gasoline. To be competitive with gasoline, think $3 a gallon instead of $4 for gasoline. Odd that ethanol costs more than gasoline.
OK Dorthy, close your eyes and say over and over, I can save gas, yes I can, I can save gas, yes I can…Toto, GET OFF DORTHY’S LEG ! Bad dog…
Ethanol from garbage…that’s the way to go.
Posted by: Eeyore at May 21, 2008 8:04 PM
Ethanol from garbage is definitely a positive step. I have seen video from Europe where it is also used to power substantial electricity generating facilities. One city I believe in Sweden was producing most of its power needs this way.
The advantage I see to many alternative crop sources is the utilization of a great deal of arable land that is not suitable for modern heavy equipment and currently lies dormant. At the least, it could be a supplemental income for many struggling farmers.
Hugger
Actually Ottie/Weasel, the cause for the much discussed food issue is widespread and ethanol production represents only a very small portion of it.
Can you google or is delivery of idiotic comments the gamut of your ability?
Hugger
Yeah it’s on the internet man … you can google it!
Right.
Just keep on blundering around in delusion land while grasping a straws. There will soon be no room in this world for the soft headed except at the end of a shovel in Auntie’s Underworld methane ranch.
Hugger, yes there are a couple of -pilot projects- converting wood trash to methanol. There are also a couple of -pilot projects- converting common garbage to crude oil. There’s even some pretty cool -pilot projects- using a plasma lance to convert garbage piles straight into vitreous slag and ethane, right in the ground.
The problems with these technologies are many and varied, which is why they aren’t industrial scale big-ass business already. If it was easy it’d be getting done.
$130+ a barrel? From garbage? Yeah baby, sign me up! Oh, except the cost of doing it is $200 a barrel. Oops, d’oh.
Ethanol from corn is nice and cheap compared to $130 a barrel oil. Problem is, it takes more BTUs to grow/process a barrel of corn ethanol than you get from burning it. Which is why our whole economy isn’t based on ethanol. Duh.
BTW, alcohols don’t really burn any cleaner than gasoline does in a modern engine. Combustion of hydrocarbons still gives you CO2, water and some stinky nitrogen/sulpher compounds that get scrubbed out in the catalytic converter.
Flex fuel engines are just another bullsh!t marketing gimmick. Take the exact same fuel injected engine, change the computer a little to richen up the mixture a bit and SHAZAM!, a V8 running on alcohol. Whupdedoo, half the drag cars in the country run alcohol. You can do higher compression is why. Mileage sucks bad though.
You want heat, you gotta burn something. Or go nuclear, and Gaia doesn’t like nukes. Its not nice to fool Mother Gaia, right?
“The point is not that petroleum is saved. The point is we tried to save petroleum.”
You can also try to put out a fire with gasoline but I wouldn’t recommend that either
It’s called buying a concept. Results really don’t matter unless your paying for it … taxpayers don’t count.
You have to admit it was a good sell to some drufus (or a committee of drufuses). It happens when you give power to stupid people … companies (and individuals, special interest groups. etc) doing business with bureaucrats depend on these folks for their livelihood. It’s kinda like a stupid gimme. Socialist free enterprise rules!!!!
Seek the idiots.
Just remember that the only reason for Ethanol is to reduce the U.S. need for Arabian oil. Yes it is all about the oil. But it is more about American and European security with the assurance of safe assured supply. It reduces the reliance on unstable politics in the Middle East and in the new totalitarian Russia. Ethanol production was never about conserving oil.
Even So!
How many meals per gallon do you get?
Greg; Dont just talk the talk,walk the walk! Buy a farm,grow switch grass,produce the feed stock that you are talkng about.Look for someone to process it.Truck it a hundred miles to the plant and then wait for the money because I assure you the banker will want his because of the capital that you will need to get started.Hope that the interest rates dont go up in the mean time and your floating interest rate loan isnt called.Also hope that your processor doesnt go bankrupt or you are screwed to put it mildly.You can eat corn,try eating switch grass.
“or what it is worth, it takes more energy to manufacture the average car than it will ever consume during its driving life. This means that the government push to drive motorists to buy new cars is the worst possible action with regard to emissions. The best action is to reward people for keeping their cars longer. Of course, if this is effective, it will have major ramifications for the viability of the motor vehicle manufacturing industry”
hmmmmm can Steffi say “Screw Ontario’s Auto Industry & Save the Planet”
Calling Buzz Hargrove !! Calling Dulton, Steffi is about to screw you over. Hope you enjoy being Green 🙂
entry for May 22 http://antigreen.blogspot.com/
“or what it is worth, it takes more energy to manufacture the average car than it will ever consume during its driving life. This means that the government push to drive motorists to buy new cars is the worst possible action with regard to emissions. The best action is to reward people for keeping their cars longer. Of course, if this is effective, it will have major ramifications for the viability of the motor vehicle manufacturing industry”
hmmmmm can Steffi say “Screw Ontario’s Auto Industry & Save the Planet”
Calling Buzz Hargrove !! Calling Dulton, Steffi is about to screw you over. Hope you enjoy being Green 🙂
entry for May 22 http://antigreen.blogspot.com/
It takes more energy to produce ethanol than ethanol contains. Therefore it results in more oil consumed, more reliance on MidEast oil, and (for those who believe it matters) more CO2 emissions.
CH3OH or C2H5OH methanol and ethanol are half burnt hydrocarbons, of course they have only half the energy of CH4 or C2H6, its why we dont liquify natural gas in the form of methanol and ethanol even though they are easier to transport. they are a waste of energy to produce.
its so simple even a government should be able to figure it out.
anyone see Dr. Mengele Suzuki explaining his vision of a future city. sounded more like Tikal with jungle vine covered buildings. you would think living in Vancouver along Kitsalano beach he would be more acutely aware that even without having buildings swaddled in wet vines half the buildings are rotting and leaking. so much for caring for the great unwashed. also it creeps me out that people let him into their kids treehouses at night.
I’m confused. Can someone explain how gasoline consumption jumped by more than 1.5 million gallons as a result of the purchase of the more than 30,000 ethanol-capable trucks and minivans?
Is Popular Science required reading for Environmental Studies courses ?
I always liked Raif Mair’s axion #1 which said that “we make a big mistake in thinking that people in charge actually know what they are doing”
Horny Toad
What could be expected……..?
If you take the same quantity of gasoline and the same quantity of ethanol, the ethanol only has 82-85% of the BTU/Joules (energy) that plain old gasoline has.
Therfore……you have to burn more to do the same amount of work.
So you are actually putting more exhaust emissions into the air with ethanol than with gas. You are also taking energy to refine corn etc into biofuels. This starves the market of food crops and up go our food prices along with the inflation.
Posted by: spike 1 at May 21, 2008 10:44 PM
People used to live in caves once upon a time, but they don’t anymore.
Did you read about George Bush asking the Saudi’s to increase crude output recently and the answer he got?
Nope..
This is a new trend by the way, as the Saudi’s have co-operated in the past. Apparently, Mr. Bush is not pleased. Now think about the tar sands and why the US wants such a dramatic increase in production. Why would they want to bother with that messy, expensive goo if it weren’t for serious supply issues?
A statement attributed to the Saudi’s said their attitude was to leave supply for future generations. Some speculate that the reserves that are assumed to exist, which would be required for a sustained increase may well not exist. That these reserves are not proven. Or maybe it’s just that the Saudi’s are wiser than the interests Mr. Bush represents.
There’s an old saying, if you don’t want shit to stink don’t poke it with a stick. Maybe they can see the effects current oil prices are having around the world, and the effects of US foreign policy in their own region and have decided a little tough love might be in order. Maybe. I’m just speculating. But think of this; what good are excessive short term profits to the Saudi’s if the whole system world wide goes into turmoil? Hungry, cold and poor people revolt. I expect the Saudi’s would prefer that didn’t happen.
Did you read about the reason given for the latest spike in the price of crude? Let me hep ya. Supposedly there was a small surplus of both crude and gasoline in the US, but for whatever reason now they say that ain’t so. So guess what? Poof, up goes the price of crude again. As this continues, so does the heavy flow of investment dollars into oil and gas sector paper from the battered real estate market, further driving the price of crude.
Now as the price of oil skyrockets, so does the price of fertilizer and thus the cost of grains etc. I read a report that stated fertilizer purchases in Pakistan went down approx. half this year and naturally their crop outputs will go down significantly as well.
Is the big picture becoming more clear?
As to the cost vs. value of ethanol fuels, there are a number of conflicting so called expert opinions on this. I would put stock in the fact that ADM is one of the largest investors in bio fuel production. If it were costing more than it’s value, or in the broad sense, it’s projected future value, I doubt you would see ADM heavily involved. Now they have extensive capability, and as such have inherent advantages.
Shall we discuss the chicken and the egg now??
Hugger
Woodporter, RTA. The new Ford V6 and V8 vehicles got -worse- mileage than the old 4 banger Jeeps that were replaced because they have bigger motors. No brainer, really. Tells you something about how serious they were on fuel mileage, eh? Can you say smoke screen?
Tell you something else, damn few of those flex-fuel Fords have burned anything but gasoline. E-85 is not commonly available, and it ain’t cheap.
France, who we love to hate, solved the fail-proof delivery problem. Their fleet is battery powered. They require no liquid fuels, no ICE motors and produce no smog.
Lobby powered governments will produce idiotic half-ass solutions. The switch to compressed air and battery powered motors should have started ten years ago.
We have been paying our oily enemies 600 Billion$ annually to wage war against us.
Brilliant! = TG
PS: For long haul mail delivery, a switch to Peterbilt hybrid tractors, [Safeway and Walmart fleets], cuts fuels consumtion in half. = TG
Will Hawaii go all electric transport as Israel and Denmark are doing? Governor Linda Lindle seems to think so.
http://tinyurl.com/4dc8wj
= TG
ADM is in it for the subsidies, period !! One of the dumbest things Bush did.
At the stroke of a ‘subsidy killing pen’ the Biofuel house of cards would fall. McCain says he would do just that.
Greg: Chevrolet’s website says the Tahoe Hybrid (2WD on both, for maximum mileage) gets 22/21, while the gas one gets 19/14. Very little difference on the highway, but significant in town.
Where you get 33.8MPG combined for the hybrid is unclear, and seems staggeringly unlikely.
TG: For long-haul delivery, all I ever see USPS using are contractor trucks anyway. They don’t, to my knowledge, own a fleet (or if they do, I never see them, and always see contractor tractors pulling Postal Service trailers).
If the contractors think the hybrid tractors are superior, they’ll switch, themselves.
why don’t we make this stuff so we can drink it? at least it would have some physical value.
gear fast, drive slow.
Sigivald, 4:17pm,
UPS seems to have a fleet of its own trucks. . .
UPS places largest ever order for fleet of green trucks
** UPS, a company which already has twenty-five hybrid diesel electric commercial vehicles in operation, is expanding its fleet of green vehicles by ordering an additional two-hundred hybrid electric vehicles and three-hundred compressed natural gas vehicles from Daimler’s Freightliner Custom Chassis Corporation (FCCC).
This order will more than double Daimler’s active fleet of commercial hybrids, as the German company currently has over one-hundred-sixty in service.
We wonder if the two-million miles of reliable service that FedEx was able to achieve from its hybrid trucks was enough to persuade UPS into making this large order. The FCCC truck is powered by a diesel engine along with an electric motor.
http://tinyurl.com/6oms6z
==========================autoblogGrenn.com
= TG
Where you get 33.8MPG combined for the hybrid is unclear, and seems staggeringly unlikely.
Posted by: Sigivald at May 22, 2008 4:17 PM
As I said in the post,”From the article”. If you read the referenced article, you will find this in there.
“2008 Chevrolet Tahoe SUV was rated at 33.8 miles per gallon for city-highway driving, while a gasoline-burning model was at 20.5 mpg.”
Hugger
Everybody is falling for this whole global warming poppycock bull kaka its the fruad of the centary and besides it ended in 1998 that means all those using global warming in TV ads all those using it in papers and or course AL GORE and the GREENS are all guilty of lying