However, the “Mohammed Mohammeds” who write in to call me “a speck of dirt on Hitler’s shoe” aren’t Canadian politicians.
Yet…
Give it a couple more years.
Here’s a beaut from a district counsellor in Rotterdam to one of her constituents:
Listen well, dirty madman, WE’LL STAY HERE, hahahahahahhahah, DROP DEAD. I am a dutch moslem, and I shall stay one until my death. I feel pity with your kind, you must live with hatred, really sad. My father and mother have worked hard to help building this country, and I have nothing to do with what others think or say. You are a miserable devil worshipper!!! You have sold your soul!!! Rather bizarre, to believe in the devil and his entourage, and to negate god the allmighty and ruler over heaven and earth. Your kind are the worst terrorists, you have been terrorizing our lives for years here in Holland.
Etc etc.
Note the poor grammar and spelling, unrestrained hysteria and hyperbole, the twisted logic — all very common in Muslim written complaints.
You’d almost think they had a tradition of mass illiteracy or something.
mass illiteraedness..errr illiternerdness…whatever.How can they be literate when they have no science,no schools,no teaching except for hatred? Kathy…doncha know that the cannibals of Bornea led the world in reformation? Just like the Muzzies are?
I’d have to see the original of the letter that was sent to this councilor to provoke this kind of response.
But the response is pretty unhinged.
Learn to read? To busy foaming at the mouth.
Cant you just feel the love oozing from this practitioner of the religion of peace 😉
This is the same “love” Charlemagne, El Cid and the Habsburgs felt from Suleyman and the Saracens, Moors and Ottomans. Seems the religion of peace has a tradition of militant practitioners with a history of showing their “love” for Europeans and their culture by invading it for the purposes of pillage and converting infidels.
Can’t ya just feel the love and tolerance from Islamic radicals?…I guess you have to have your brain sodden with leftbot programming to pick up the “love vives” aggressive Islam throws off. 😉
Some things never change.
OK…I’ve held my tongue long enough. Really, Kathy, the generalizations are a little bit too much. ‘all very common in muslim written complaints’? Come on. There is a plethora of muslims out there who are well educated and I count a number of them to be among my friends. I know you don’t care if you come across as offensive, but you aren’t winning any friends here. I’ve gone from enjoying your postings, to being uncomfortable with how deep you have delved into what you profess to believe. And I am sure there are plenty of other individuals out there just like me who think you simply go way to far, and give the moonbats ammo to use against those on the right. No wonder they cry ‘racist’ at every slight. (well, there are other reasons for that as well…but you get my point nonetheless.)
Johannes, this response is from a public official. It doesn’t matter what the original letter said, this communication from a public official to a constituent is a crudely incoherent, arrogant, bigoted hate-dump.
Imagine just changing a few words around, to make it a Christian or Jewish public official responding to a Muslim. Imagine the uproar from the Muslims and the PC Lefties! It’d be called wretched semi-literate hate speech; there’d be demands for the Councilor’s resignation, prosecution, etc., etc.
But since this is from a Muslim official, to a non-Muslim constituent, we won’t hear any more about it as it swirls down the MSM Memory Hole as quickly as possible.
poor little “me”. I’d suggest, if you can’t take Kathy’s altogether justified heat, that you beat a hasty retreat.
That you’ve finally come to the boil–at Kathy, for pete’s sake!–after reading the utterly appalling letter from a privileged madman–though, I must admit he IS correct about the TDSB–leaves ME cold.
Good for Kathy for not turning away from unpleasant truths, and in a gutsy, engaging style!
As I’ve said, if the truth’s too much for poor little “me”, feel free to go to your own small corner and hug yourself.
Sorry, “me” but really: generalizations make the world go around, or did until so called conservatives like you bought into elite liberal notions about ‘racism’.
Paul Revere didn’t ride through Boston shouting “SOME of the British are coming” because he didn’t have to. EVERYONE knew what he meant.
Nowadays, people who can’t argue based on the facts at hand but whose feewings are hurt, raise the specter of ‘racism’. They shout “a ha!” every time someone neglects to write SOME muslims or A SMALL HANDFUL of Muslims or whatever the acceptable qualifier is this week.
And I’m sick of THAT. And of people like you.
How dare you question my personal experience? Spend a week reading the letters and threats posted to the guy who runs Jihad Watch, to name just one site. The Muslim writers are to a man hysterical, illiterate and threatening. Or browse around web forums run by radical Muslims, as I’ve been doing since 9/11.
You’re sure there are plenty of people who agree with you. Why do you dare to speak for these imaginary friends of yours? Let them speak for themselves.
You’re awfully wimpy, aren’t you, ‘holding your tongue’ ever so ‘bravely’ all this time? Do go back to holding it. We don’t need more “some of my best friends are Muslims” conservatives. Let these friendly Muslims of yours counteract the semi-literate voices and threats by their co-religionists and I’d be delighted to read them. Sadly, they are allowing themselves to be publicly represented by Muslims who speak and behave like savages.
Who am I to believe, then? You or my own lying eyes?
Exactly lookout: note that “me” is more offended by my post (which quotes UN statistics and numerous other examples of poor Muslim communications skills) than he is about the actual politician’s letter.
That’s the sign of a leftist at heart: always outraged over precisely the wrong thing.
Amen, Kathy!
Kathy
You’re preaching to the choir.
Just post the letter without the accompanying vitriol.
We are not so stupid that we need you to explain how bad it is.
If you want to emphasize your point, post another letter from your pile.
Let the ignorance of these authors speak for themselves.
I would have to think that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim..you are either for the team or a heretic..so..i feel they would best be served if they referred to themselves as secular, non denominational..
Probably would save them a lot of grief in the end..
I agree with ‘me’. I don’t think that generalizing several, even many, situations, where Muslim complaints are hysterical, illogical and illiterate –into the reductionism that ALL Muslims complaints are….etc… is valid. And my rejection of such generalization has nothing to do with ‘racism’. It’s simply, the facts. And logic.
The complaint of the father about his child is indeed hysterical, abusive, illogical, filled with his own invalid generalizations, filled with all the tabloid cant about West vs East, racism and so on…That can’t be reduced to a conclusion that ALL Muslim..etc.
Kathy – your analogy of Paul Revere’s shouted warning is invalid. He wasn’t generalizing about a people and their attributes; he was informing the people that the British TROOPS were coming.
The Rotterdam councillor’s letter is a great example of total illogical nonsense. She/he is arguing, in the most venemous, hate-filled verbiage, about how peaceful and tolerant her religion and views are! Attacking others for their hatred, while espousing deep hatred on her part, against them.
All that would be necessary, I think, is to post the letter, and comment on the Alice in Wonderland illogicality of it. There’s no need to extrapolate and reduce her behaviour and declare that ALL Muslims think, write, etc..like this. You know they don’t.
Your agenda, I think, ought to be to publicize them, to shame these people, to point out how contradictory, how illogical, how irrational, their comments are.
And no, I’m not being a relativist, I’m not a leftist, I’m saying that generalizations are, at the best of times, always non-factual because that is their nature, and are, at the worst of times, contrary to the agenda of making such illogical opinions public and open to criticism.
Although, or so I’ve heard, ‘literacy’ in the ME and environs means that one can, (at least, but perhaps only), write one’s name, we’re not exactly comin’ up roses:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/education/canada-shame.html
Quote: “In total, 42 per cent of Canadians are semi-illiterate. The proportion is even worse for those in middle age. And even when new immigrants are excluded, the numbers remains pretty much the same”. Unquote.
Kathy, he’s actually offended by your gross sweeping generalizations and intellectual laziness. People like you turn off average everyday Canadians who’d otherwise wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to international Islamic terrorism because they can’t get over how ignorant you sound sometimes. Yeah, you get hate mail from Muslims – is that supposed to be surprising when you say the things you do to crazy jihadis? Thing is, you’re only hearing from the crazy jihadis and not people like the Muslims I know. The bottom line is that people like yourself are the reason nonpartisan Canadians won’t buy what you’re selling even if it’s right because you make it so frigging unpalatable all the time. Although there’s no point in telling you that, because people like you never listen anyhow (see: “Daily Kos”)
There is that one letter with the man upset about how is 10-year old girl is being treated at school by other children and how the principal, vice-principal and police are not doing anything about it. The guy needs to stay focused; he babbles on about stuff that is irrational and has nothing to do with his child at all….major paranoia.
“….because you make it so frigging unpalatable all the time.” by Dante
Yah, I hear you, the truth leaves a bad taste in the mouth’s of people such as yourself who haven’t reached the point where they have finally figured out that there are only two types of Muslims – practising Muslims who follow the teachings of the Koran and non-practising Muslims who hope the practising Muslims don’t find out.
I think I shall side with Dante on this one. Call a spade a spade, and leave the rest out of it. One only has to think of all the courageous Muslims working with our troops in Afghanistan, or the ones working with the yanks in Iraq to see that not all are bad.
Attack the extremists at every chance. Leave the bigotry to the moonbats and dippers.
kingstonlad – agreed.
I think the real problem here is that citizens are having to take up the slack from government neglect.
Both of our countries have troops in the field fighting radical Islam, and so with our guys constantly threatened, it’s pretty hard to have feelings of charity for Islam generally.
Then of course there is the problem of a very real fifth column among the so-called peaceful Muslims. And regrettably, many of them live in Canada and the US.
And in the midst of this, while our militaries are taking aggressive action, our leaders are very reluctant to plainly state what is expected of Muslims domestically.
Muslims want to wear special clothes. They are obviously very out of sync with Western perceptions of law and cultural norms. Some want to demand special privileges and to receive special victim status and indict the rest of us with racism.
If the leaders of our governments would courageously spell out what is expected of Muslims who live in the United States and Canada, our citizens would feel as if the proper point was being made.
However, in light of the absence of forceful statements from the top, a vacuum is created which citizens feel a need to fill.
“””””One only has to think of all the courageous Muslims working with our troops in Afghanistan, or the ones working with the yanks in Iraq to see that not all are bad.””””
and the muslim women and children who are first line victums
and then there is the likes of Salim Mansur
and as far as lituracy goes, there are those who like me, G Bush, A Einstein, A Grahambell the Wright bros., Sir I Newton, S Hawking, etc; etc; that who have a small problemo in this area!!!!!
so as a few have pointed out, over the top generalizations help only the cause of those whom you would critizise !!
Here’s an angle, and as a qualifier, put me strongly in the Dante/Kingstonlad camp:
Why are you snidely going after a Dutch Muslim’s misspellings of english words? It’s probably language #3 for her. My grandparents emigrated from the Netherlands over 50 years ago, and I’m still getting spelling and grammar errors in my Christmas letters.
Sure, the tome is reprehensible and not suited for anyone who holds a position of authority, but your frothing denunciations of over a billion people turn right off the message.
That also applies to most things posted by Irwin Daisy as well. I can only handle reading the same passages of the Quran so many times in relation to an event before tuning completely out.
Greg in Dallas – while I agree with your sentiments, I think that if any government tried to take this on, they would be shouted down by the left as racists, especially as the government leaders of the day are conservatives in both countries.
I believe that the role government in Canada can play in this is to disband, or severely restrict, the role of the HRC. And to continue to react as Jason Kenney did in responding to one of the Ezra Levant complainants.
Unfortunately, the MSM is the MSM and we can expect no positive action from them, including accurate reporting of the situation, although that is their role, and one which they have chosen to abandon in favour of becoming mouthpieces for the leftist political parties.
As other posters on this site have said repeatedly – continue to propel these Islamic bad asses out into the sunshine and keep them there where the light of day can serve to educate the masses.
Bleh. See, my own posts show how silly it is to make fun of spelling and grammar.
“…People turn right off the message” should read, “…Turn people right off the message.”
.
Shouldn’t this juvenile crap be posted over on stormfront. What does this have to do with Canadian Conservatism.
“In the case of September 11th, the United States has the right to complain to the international police, and submit evidence against any accused individuals. Then the international police would investigate and arrest any suspects and set a trial where the accused have the right to defend themselves. But to occupy a country, kill ten of thousands of civilians, and terrorise Muslims everywhere, is a crime, which must be stopped.”
That letter has to be one of the most astounding I’ve ever read. “International police”?
Maybe next time someone like, say… Salman Rushdie, writes something Islamics don’t like, they should call the International Police, instead of rioting and killing, issuing fatwas,etc.
ET: when did I say the words “all Muslims”?
I didn’t. I really thought you were smarter than this.
The “not ALL” trope is SO very, very tiresome.
It’s like bad amateur table magic — an attempt to draw attention away from the real issue at hand.
And my Paul Revere line is actually very clever and you know it. Your humourless pedantry is showing.
I realize that for many of you, “Canadian conservatism” has mostly to do with “getting the public to like us so we’ll win a majority in the next election.”
I however am not a partisan hack so such things don’t concern me in the slightest.
And besides: the “average Canadian” will never care about anything other than (in no particular order) lottery tickets, donuts and Boxing Day sales on HDTVs.
They were _never_ going to get involved in this issue or any other, regardless of my tone.
I’d ask you to produce evidence that my “tone” has turned off one single person with an actual name and address, as opposed to straw men “average Canadians”.
Your “some of my best friends are” elitist moral exhibitionism, and your reliance upon tired cliches is what really turns folks off.
No one will go to the barricades in the battles for free speech and against belligerent Islam with timid milquetoasts who care more about being polite to people who wish them dead than they do about actually winning.
Especially milquetoasts who, unlike me, don’t have the courage to post their opinions (naughty or nice) under their real names.
Kathy, you just reminded me of something.
I post about these things on a site called Deviantart. Some here may know the site…
A number of people I talk to are muslim- with a Difference.
THEY ARE ALL APOSTATE. Secular. What have you.
All those muslims who profess to be practicing muslims, would just as soon see me silenced.
Why is it the only muslims who will listen and discuss are the ones who are not active in the faith?
Curious.
otter
“””””Why is it the only muslims who will listen and discuss are the ones who are not active in the faith?””””
that’s in your world
in my world I have practicing muzzies as friends, and they do listen and reason, and even condem extremists
and , again, read salim mansur!!!!!
I won’t get into the most all some debate, but what I have noticed is the response one receives when one challenges another’s belief system.
In times past I have had various Mormon ‘elders’ come to my door and when I point out the deficiencies in their faith their spontaneous response is “Why are you picking on me”.
When I challenge a Muslim on his faith the response is one of incoherent hatred emphasising the Muslim’s existence and anticipated victory.
I have noticed similarities in arguing with atheists, secular humanists, socialists etc to the point where I can tell by the response to my initial posit to which belief system the person I am speaking to belongs.
I personally believe that each of us speaks according to the spirit given us and so we see the response of the spirit not always the response of the individual.
From my experience of living in The Gulf, I found that education and learning does not have the same cultural importance as it does in The West. The resulting fatalism that comes from submission tends to keep people in the same position that they were born into. Those born into a scholarly family strive to become scholars while a date farmer’s son would strive to be a wealthier date farmer.
The concept of out sourcing your thinking to another is acceptable to them; hence they have a class of people known as “Arab Intellectuals”.
Unfortunately in Canada we have to struggle along with far fewer “Designated Intellectuals” such as Dion and Iggy.
Kathy – because you didn’t use the quantifier ‘All’ in your posts, doesn’t mean that you didn’t mean ‘All’, ie, an attribute that is distributed or common to all Muslims.
You specifically said ‘in Muslim written complaints’ and ‘they had a tradition’. That’s called ‘distribution’ of the attributes. That means that the attributes were common to ALL Muslim written complaints. ‘Tradition’ means ‘habitual’.
You made no claim of non-distribution, ie, by saying “there are some cases where such and such is true”.
You then informed us that ‘generalizations make the world go round’. And ‘the Muslim writers are, to a man….” So, you were generalizing. I wasn’t the first or the only one to take issue with this.
No, your Paul Revere line is not clever, even if you affirm and affirm that it is so. It has nothing to do with distribution or non-distribution of an attribute.
Bringing in the agenda of Conservatives to win a majority has zilch to do with this issue (of how to deal with radical Islamism). I don’t think that you can claim that those of us who are against generalizing that ALL Muslims are extremists are making that claim because they want the Conservatives to win a majority. I’m against generalizations on pure factual grounds that they must always be, in the real world, invalid. Nothing to do with being partisan, hack or non-hack.
Nor is the issue your ‘tone’ and whether or not it has turned off/on the average Canadian. The evidence for someone being turned off is those of us who inform you that they are turned off by sweeping generalizations. For me, at least, the issue is how to deal with Islamic fascism, and I don’t think that generalizations have any practical results.
I sent a long letter, under my real name, to the HRC, the AHRC, Harper, Kenney and others, against the HRA and the HRC. I’ve written constantly against Islamic fascism on this and other blogs.
I don’t think that the fight against Islamic fascism will be won only by ‘might’, ie, who shouts or hits louder. I think that ‘might’ is important with regard to terrorist’s use of force. That’s where our ‘might’ is necessary.
But when we come to rhetoric and to the fight for democracy and free speech, I think we have to insist on reason, logic and facts. With regard to the city councillor’s letter, the vast publicity that letter is getting, with the rejection of her letter – is one way to deal with it. It needs, in addition, a point by point commentary to her, pointing out that her letter advocating a religion of peace is filled with threats, hatred and rejection of others. A LOT of letters to her, like that, are necessary. Calm, reasoned and yet, offended by her hatred.
Fightint Islamic fascism isn’t easy; it has to be confronted and rejected. My own view is that the rejection has to be firm, cool, collected and unyielding. No emotional hysteria.
The problem is who will articulate the popular outrage when government is working hard to be inoffensive to everyone.
We see this in the US with illegal aliens. The federal government is reluctant to act, and so it falls to local communities to do the job that rightly belongs to the federal government.
The situation in Caledonia appears to be a typical case where government allows oppressors to step on everyone’s head and violate everyone’s rights in its endeavor to be sensitive to a group that might cause it problems.
So we are left with the dilemma of how to instruct an immigrant community who believes that their religious mandate usurps everything that our ancestors fought to preserve.
With government demonstrating a willingness to ignore the civilized groups who try to conduct themselves along the lines of decent behavior, the only entity left to express outrage is citizens who feel pushed into a corner.
Recently a Canadian Muslim murdered his young daughter, and it appears that public outrage was the only thing that managed to get the Islamic community’s attention.
ET interesting points. But if I have to choose to live in your utopia or Kathy’s, I’ll be choosing Kathy’s!
Not to defend what the person said in the email, which was quite vulgar, but it would be inaccurate to characterize many Muslims as illiterate. I mean, there was a time when Islam had the most highly advanced science and writing in the world.
gus – except that my world is not utopian. It’s pragmatic. It confronts reality with force when it is necessary and with reason when it is necessary. Emotional hyperbole has no role in a pragmatic focus.
A utopian world is useless. Islamic fascism is utopian. So is socialism. You get trapped in the rhetoric.
Joe said “I personally believe that each of us speaks according to the spirit given us and so we see the response of the spirit not always the response of the individual.”
I’d love a really long chat with you. Well done, sir.
ET interesting points. But if I have to choose to live in your utopia or Kathy’s, I’ll be choosing Kathy’s!
Couldn’t agree more with that statement!!
Great work Kathy.
ET, brilliant as usual.
Kathy, she is right and many posters here agree with her. I understand where you are coming from and why you pound away with the best intentions.
I get the same feedback from my family and friends as I repeatedly point out the uselessness of the liberals and the dangers of Islam and socialism. But no matter how many valid facts or articles I present they still wont change their minds or show any interest so now what do I do, get louder, call them names, criticize their intelligence? No one wins an argument so though it drives me crazy I have to back off and accept that we are all entitled to our opinions.
All we can hope for is that something will trigger them to see our point. Just getting some to read Mark Steyn and Hirsi Ali’s book was a small victory.
Harpers a very sharp guy and is well aware of your message on Islam and reads Salim Mansur’s column. Jason Kenny’s letter may be the beginning of a political sea change.
Now about those damn, brain-dead Liberal voters…
Geez… like the Leftists/moonbats, the radical Muslims are constantly projecting their own faults upon innocents and victims in misguided attempts to fool folks into believing that it’s the accusees, not the accusers, who are the very things alleged.
I’ll propose a rule of thumb to be used against Leftists and radical Islamists:
Whatever they accuse you of being, know that they’re trying to wrongly blame you for what’s their own fault.
So if they call you a terrorist, a bigot, a racist, an extremist or whatever, it’s not you who is any of that stuff; in all probability, it’s them!
raphael alexander – no, you are quite wrong. There never was much ‘Islamic science’ and it was not the ‘most advanced in the world’. Same with its writing.
Islam is specifically opposed to the use of reason and empirical proof; it is specifically opposed to individual free thought. Therefore, it cannot support science because science requires individual free thought, reason and empirical proof.
You’ve been brainwashed into some common myths about Islam. Islam is not so much a religion as it is a social and political mode of life. Defining this mode of life as a religion has moved it outside of a capacity for change and ‘frozen it in time’ – in the 7th century to be specific.
What the Arabic scholars did, was to copy and comment on the ancient Greek philosophical and descriptive work, particularly of Aristotle – and ancient Hindu mathematical work. The West had, for a brief period, moved out of touch with the work of these eras. The Arabic world kept these works – and they later strongly influenced the work of real science, in the west.
I have commented in the past that our large group opinion seems contained in the circle around this campfire.
Pasting blog poll results to our letters and Emails could help.
===============================
Should the AB-HRC persecute Ezra Levant?
Yes, 4
No, 2115
===============================
MPs have a soft spot for polls. = TG
Seems to me that many commenters here are missing the point, which is that illiteracy and irrationality is a hallmark of the complaint letters and/or other communications between radical Muslims and the kuffar. (That’s us.)
Why should it be otherwise? Chances are if a Muslim IS able to absorb a good Western education, and become literate in a Western language, they are also going to wise up to the fact that Islam is a dead-end street. They may well continue to go through the motions, because they know only too well their fate if they are deemed to be apostate. Nor do they want to be totally cut off from family members who may yet be devout believers.
What we are seeing is natural selection in action, folks. Islam selects for “stupid.”
generalizations generally generally make the general world go round, generally.
If some think the roles were reversed in Holland then best think again about a magical spell that falsely puts all in the same bag. The muzzies are given their platter and that’s the problem the gubinment wants outof, and we’re left with it and the resulting crap.
Emotional hyperbole sometimes is right, jmo.
I’m having a hard time with slapping down Kathy Shaidle on her “generalizations” regarding the low level of Muslim illiteracy in their correspondence of outrage. Anyone seeing anything above that level link it please.
Sorry, but, since 9/11 after 3000+ of my fellow Americans were vaporized in a couple hours of Islamofascist wrath, I’ve yet to hear from “educated, literate, moderate Muslims” on how awful that was in a manner that squarely defined the Islamofascists as evil and us as innocent victims. There is always the “but” in their public dialogue.
If Kathy appears to use hyperbole, can’t blame her, it seems pretty close to reality to me. She isn’t using a suicide belt to get her point across.
Anyone really wanting the usual stupid quasi-literate, almost crayon crawled, spittle fueled complaint against Ezra Levant being equally considered by the standards of who we are in western civilization? I don’t.
Just because someone is educated it doesn’t mean they are civilized.
When you and your actions are controlled by a book, any book, what does that say about you? Are you intelligent? Are you civilized? Are you educated? Are you an individual? All I know for sure is if you unquestionably believe someone else’s interpretation of anything or any book you are just plain old stupid.
ET
Take a look at this.
http://www.ummah.net/history/scholars/index.html
Ibn Sina (Avicenna) for instance was referenced by European medical authorities well into the 18th century.
Kathy,
If you’re a true Canadian, that’s “doughnuts” not “donuts”. Yes, we all know what you meant, but it’s attention to the details that make all the difference. Tim’s kicked Krispy Kreme’s butt back to Alabama. Maybe if they had called it “Crispy Cream” it might have had a chance. Like Mark Twain said, “soap and education”.
One of you collector types out there should start a colection of these moonbat comments. You could easily fill a book. I find them enlightening…
A window into the Muslim mind
Doug Newton,
I am well aware of Avicenna (Ibn Sina) 10th c, and Averroes (Ibn Rushd)12th c. Both were Aristotelian scholars. My point is that they maintained and commented on the massive works of Aristotle (and Plato)and Galen, the Greek physician, which had been completely marginalized by the West – until the West began to pick them up again in the 11th, 12th c.
The origin of the ideas they were using and commenting on – was Greek rationalism and medicine.