Prime Minister Stephen Harper will have to accept carbon taxes or other charges on greenhouse gases if his government is to have any hope of meeting its climate-change targets.
[…] Introducing a new charge on fossil fuels is the only way to ensure Canada succeeds in cutting its emissions, the National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy said in a report yesterday.
The new charge would mean Canadians would face higher costs to heat and light their homes and to pump gas into their cars, the panel says.
I don’t recall them asking you or me, so I will.
Ultimate proof that it is a socialist money-sucking scheme.
carbon tax , tax , tax ,tax,tax
I have been a strong supporter of the Conservative party, a sustaining donor as they like to call it. If Baird decides that he is going to buy into the climate change hysteria then I will be withdrawing my financial support. I will need to save every penny I can to cushion the blow that will come when my husband loses his job. My husband works in the oil industry and we have already seen the layoffs and downturn that the royalty review has done. I just cannot imagine what buying hot air credits will do to us.
Here is the point.
IF you believe CO2 is the cause of Global Warming AND that this will lead to catstrophic results then Carbon Taxes are an appropriate policy response. It has been shown time and again that increased taxes reduce consumption at the margin over what they would be without taxes.
OR you want to significantly reduce the use of carbon based fuels because there too much of that fuel comes from unstable foreign sources, then a Carbon Tax is an appropriate policy response, per the above.
I am sure we would use more gasoline if the taxes that are on Gas werent there……how much is the question, once agian it is at the margin over what we already use.
My problem is I am not convinced that the CO2 problem exists, or at a minimum is the road to perdition that the alarmists say.
I would support a small, very small carbon tax (say 1 cent per ton) just to get the infrastructure in place should further study reveal this is the problem. Of course this is caveated by the costs of administering the tax, should that prove to be too high then we are better to spend the money on significant and open study to answer the question.
I would rather there be reductions in payroll taxes and income taxes quite frankly and raising of the amount at which the top marginal rate is charged. It is ridiculous what level of income is considered “rich” in this country, way too low.
“The report acknowledges there will be “pain” for Canadians as fossil fuels are slapped with a tax based on their carbon content. That could mean a 50 per cent increase in electricity costs, a 60 per cent jump in natural gas costs and a doubling of gas prices by 2050, the report predicts.
However, the panel also attempts to put those big numbers in context, noting that the price of gas jumped by 50 per cent at times during 2005 alone.”
Well, that makes me feel better, now that it’s in perspective.
But I like Baird’s clear headed response, “a new tax sounds like a Liberal idea to me.”
“The report won quick praise from environmentalists, who urged the federal Conservatives to act quickly on its recommendations.”
Yeah, before the whole thing is proven, once and for all, the ultimate fraud that it is.
Now atarts the debate about the best way of reducing CO2 with the underlying assumption that its even necessary in the first place.
Classic example of the cart in front of the horse.
This is a scheme that must have come from a brain dead pack of Socialists.
It will never pass as long as the Harper Conservatives are at the helm.
Hell, we’re already taxed to death, next the Leftoid bone heads want a tax to cover burps and farts.
Why are we surprised, they didn’t want a drop in the GST.
And are the Chinese going to participate in this tax?
FYI Kate, the poll doesn’t seem to be working…
This is no time to be increasing the cost of living for Canadians. Growing numbers cannot buy a home nowadays let alone heat it.
There is no big problem with our climate and if we get higher temperatures this will be good for Canada. We will save of heat costs.
This carbon credit cash grab will only put pressure on governments to subsidize the growing numbers of people who will be hurt by these new useless carbon taxes. That will be a government move forward in the socialist role of super nanny state in the western world. Look at the mess Britain is in.
This mama nanny is not your loving fat, robe-wearing, kerchief-headed babushka or Jemimah. We are talking evil step mother who will toss you all our on your ass once the dependency is complete.
It has happened before in various countries … like Cuba, Russia … c’mon, you know the story. Email Harper and tell him to tell them to stuff it and we can all go to bed tonight having ‘missed our target’.
pm@pm.gc.ca
… and again we are seeing the heavy hand of Central Canada emerging for the benefit primarily of Central Canada. Just who are these round table people any way?
Robert/Vice chair of the round table is talking on the Rutherford morning show (Tues) as I write. He is talking like it is he/they who intend to run the entire energy sector. Can the word “compliance” be far behind).
Totally ignoring what AB has been/is doing as regards the negatives in the energy sector – he is sounding like a re-incarnation of Marc LaLonde. It must be a federal plan. Nonsense.
Central Government always knows best – particularly when it comes to the resource rich provinces. Right. How much time has Robert spent in AB prior to coming our with this report.
God -now a rep from the tail pipe police is having his say. Get these older, evil, vehicles off the road! It is more about forcing the sale of new vehicles than it is about gas emissions.
Time for coffee
I am ENRAGED that the government is so far behind the curve on climate change.
How is a carbon tax going to be used to deal with the oncoming ice age?
The government needs to engage in negotiations NOW with the US when agriculture is no longer sustainable in Canada because of glacier cover. Not only that, what about human migration southward because of glacier cover?
AGW pagan international-socialist worshipers should all be strung up or sent packing up north with their beloved polar bears!
On last evenings news I noted Glenn Murray was spokesman for the group. This big spending ex mayor of Winnipeg is socialist to the core so it should not come as any surprise the only recommendation was carbon tax. Harper should file the report in the appropriate place.
The poll is working now…
To digress slightly:
There is a misconception that Quebec introduced a carbon tax.
A carbon tax seeks to discourage fossil fuel consumption with taxes at the gas pump (as an example). However, the Charest gov’t forbid the oil companies to “download” this new “carbon tax” onto their clients. The oil companies thus absorb the losses caused by the new tax, but consumers don’t see/feel it at the pumps. Therefore consumers aren’t being deterred with a new tax at the pumps, which is the whole point of a carbon tax.
Makes for great PR, though. The public doesn’t get taxed, but Charest gets credit for (seemingly) doing something positive for the env’t. In Quebec, ‘carbon tax’ has turned into another key phrase that people don’t really understand but that sounds good, like Kyoto.
when you put the cart in front of the horse, the most apparent thing is the horses a$$.
somehow CO2 ( the ultimate plant food) has been redesignated by the MSM as pollution.
Let’s have some fun. Some questions for the Kyoto loving crowd.
What is the target emission level (in Mt’s) that Canada is obligated to achieve under Kyoto 1 ?
Based on the most current (2005) UN data, what was the total emission level for Canada ??
What then is the size in Mt’s of the emission cut Canada needs to make in order to be Kyoto compliant ??
If Canada took every train, bus, car, truck, plane out of operation, how many Mt’s of GhG’s would be eliminated ?
If Canada shut the entire Energy sector, including all coal fired electrical plants and the Oil & Gas industry, how many Mt’s of emissions would be eliminated ??
How much you want to bet the CPC folds like a tent and starts to implement these decisions?
The fear angle will be that we, the CPC, won’t be as bad as the libs/dipper $30 per tonne, Greens $50 per tonne. The CPC will come in between $15-20 per tonne and will make it look like they are a bargain, which it would be.
What a f@#king scam.
@Fred: “If Canada took every train, bus, car, truck, plane out of operation, how many Mt’s of GhG’s would be eliminated ?”
No consequence. Canada emits only about 3% of the world’s carbon emissions. The big fish are the US, China (& growing), UK. But, since we are a wealthy country, we are expected to pay, “we” being you and me. Typical lefty philosophy. Harper was right to call all the other big emitters and the developing countries to task. We are a drop in the bucket.
OK, who are the 8 idiots who voted for a tax increase?
Any takers?
Don’t forget a rapidly approaching # 2 India, Sounder.
Since moving to Southern Ontario it has been quite difficult to find Anything beyond part-time work- and another temp told me just last week that St. Catharines had lost 55,000 jobs. Now they want to make life even More difficult? No Thanks.
Miss The Target. Let people like john cross take up a collection.
The message that the only way forward is through taxation says it all to me: MMGCC believers and environmentalists have tossed away their thinking caps and are reflexively relying on the State to beat the populace into submission.
We need to pray PM Harper and the government hold the line on this one.
The choice is a false dichotomy, there are at least three choices; you could tax emissions and still miss your targets. Also, I am sure a deep enough recession would also have us right on track, with or without a carbon tax.
“We need to pray PM Harper and the government hold the line on this one.”
Well yes, but prayer isn’t enough. We need to make SURE that the CPC knows we aren’t going to stand for it. It’s time for a letter to your MP…
Good point on India otter, and Harper is practically called a traitor for the stance he took? ‘Equal’ should be dropped from the dictionary.
I find this all very disturbing. Anyone (left or right) should see what is going on here. And even those who believe in this AGW business should be wary.
This goes to the very first lesson that I ever learned about politics (when I was about 13):
Once governments have a new source of income (through a new tax), they MUST never lose that source of income. When it is introduced, a new tax always has an “official excuse.” But, very little (if any) of the money raised actually goes towards whatever it was designated for.
The purpose of the GST was to eliminate the national debt within a generation or two. If memory serves, at the current rate, our debt will be paid down in approximately 212 years.
Income tax was a “temporary” measure to pay for WWI. Does anyone believe that we are still paying for the costs of the Great War?
Taxes always stay – even when the supposed reason for them has disappeared or been nullified. And most of the money is not used for what they said it would be used for.
How many times do we have to experience this universal and consistent approach to swindling the public before people finally wake up?
A carbon tax will increase the cost of everything, not just utilities and gas. Public transit would be subject to this tax so fares will go up. Food will go up because of tax on transportation costs.
Rents will go up because of tax on utilities.
Anyone buying the crap that a carbon tax will reduce anything but the money in your purse is living on another planet.
Did they mention how many jobs might be lost.
Maybe the best way to reduce co2 would be for all the experts to stop breathing for 20 minutes every hour, especially in Toronto.
Excuse me, I am going to turn on another light and start the car, to let it idle.
What is the target emission level (in Mt’s) that Canada is obligated to achieve under Kyoto 1 ?
ANSWER – 444,912Mt
Based on the most current (2005) UN data, what was the total emission level for Canada ??
ANSWER – 729,710Mt
What then is the size in Mt’s of the emission cut Canada needs to make in order to be Kyoto compliant ??
ANSWER – 284,799Mt
If Canada took every train, bus, car, truck, plane out of operation, how many Mt’s of GhG’s would be eliminated ?
ANSWER – 197,729Mt (69% of required cut)
If Canada shut the entire Energy sector, including all coal fired electrical plants and the Oil & Gas industry, how many Mt’s of emissions would be eliminated ??
ANSWER – 210,920Mt (71% of required cut)
The economically brutal reality of Kyoto.
Thomas d’Aquino isn’t against a carbon tax as long as corporate income taxes are reduced to make it revenue neutral. Makes sense to me. It means businesses can make more money as they reduce carbon emissions.
A difficult one for an honest Prime Minister. There are those who remember the incredible chicanery of the past Liberal Party with regard to an increase in gasoline taxes. Many years ago- too many. They howled loud and long about this “hardship” to the little guy.
The Conservatives lost an election. This was said to be a major factor in their defeat. A year later not only did the “little guy” have to pay the increase, but DOUBLE the original proposal. The Liberals of course laughed all the way to their now solid majority.
This is not a happy issue for the new government. The charlatans could use it as an election issue. Simply make a number of “feel good” policy announcements. Knowing that many of their constituents adopt a nodding of heads attitude. Privately they think austerity is “for thee, but not for me”.
Watch the Liberals on this one.
In the MSM day after day there are stories on CO2 “green house gases” as if this is already a hard scientific fact. Never any sceptical questions.
Like nazi propaganda, a lie repeated often enough becomes accepted as fact.
If I were to get news only from MSM sources I could easily believe in AWG.
Like hell I’m gonna pay a tax every time I fart.
Why bother being distracted by co2, Fruitfly and the Goracle?
I don*t care about co2. It*s taking our attention off the problem. Dragging our heels while sticking to gas and diesel is a serious mistake.
Europe and Asia are away ahead of us on smaller vehicles running on energies other than gas and diesel. Mail delivery, Military and municipal fleets all run without need of oil fuels.
Soon, ALL cars sold in Brazil will be 100% bio-fuel capable. They can still use gasoline, but 85% use the lower cost E-fuels. = TG
PEI’s pork farmers are already being driven out of business because of the increased cost of feed caused by enviroethanolmania. A destructive carbon tax would be the icing on the cake.
“Former Winnipeg mayor Glen Murray is an urban strategist. His column appears monthly. gmurray@navltd.com”
That’d be in the Toronto Star, last column, Dec 9, 2007. There’ll be another coming out soon, no doubt.
TG,
What you said.
The real issue here is that the cost of fossil fuels will keep growing regardless of that carbon-tax nonsense. With demand going up 2% a year and supply more or less flat in spite of every supplier pumping at capacity that’s what you get.
We’ll have to learn to do with less or expect pay more.
The only way I could support a additional tax on fuel is a guarantee every red cent of it goes into developing alternate energy sources, including a massive investment in the cleanest of them, nuclear energy. But as they say, when pigs fly.
We don’t need another tax. On anything.
Some people are already finding it a difficult choice, between food and fuel. Warren Kinsella mentions one such. Kinsella (not the most trustworthy source, to be sure) also states that Atlantic Canada relies more on fuel oil for heating than do parts further west.
A carbon tax is disgusting. And probably wouldn’t work, as people decide that they can live on boiled shoe leather but that they are not going to freeze. No, the option which will work, to obtain the (in my view entirely unnecessary) cutbacks in consumption desired by some, is rationing.
RATIONING.
At least then we would have some money for drink while we freeze to death.
Why we are even having this discussion in Canada, which is one of the coldest countries in the world, with large distances between cities, and a necessity of importing and transporting food during the winters, and whose share of carbon emission is small anyway because of our small population, beggars the imagination.
Given the typical Canadian winter, I do think that the people who negotiated the Canadian Kyoto targets are traitors pure and simple.
Broken record here!
It’s inevitable, the “new National Energy program”, I just wish we weren’t so thick and could start mobleizing for the split of Western Canada from Canada now, instead of waiting for the pain an inevitable Liberal majority is going to bring.
We lost this battle with Stockwell Day, and Harper has just been keeping ship until the Liberals get back on track. Disagree if you must, but Canada is broken.
Greenneck!
I’ve been too hard on you.
We agree on this one, pretty much everything you said.
Bio fuels
Isn’t that like a scam inside of a scam.
Forests and jungles being cleared to raise fuel crops.Food crops displaced by “green fuel”crops.
Food price increases.
What about the iniffciency of the process where it takes more energy to produce the fuel than what the fuel will provide.
Green fuel, though it is certainly good for producers, is insanity.
“The report acknowledges there will be “pain” for Canadians as fossil fuels are slapped with a tax based on their carbon content. That could mean a 50 per cent increase in electricity costs, a 60 per cent jump in natural gas costs and a doubling of gas prices by 2050, the report predicts.”
Natural Gas will increase much more! like > an order of magnitude!
There are Management tools to deal with these types of Voodoo Science Experiments
A) Those “Scientists” that are proponents of CO2, and have the “Mature” science, define the parameters & methodology of the Project. Note: There is no reason to fund R&D of “Mature” Science
B) Those “Scientists” that are opponents of the “Mature” science opinion “Implement” the Project & Manage all aspects. That includes all R & D required to measure the “Results” defined by group A. They are the Scientists that need to be educated & are best equipped (open minded) to develop the right tools to fight climate change
All special Interests are sent to the nearest BUS stop, and told to wait for their Special BUS to arrive.
Maybe when I have more time,I’ll start my own poll on that site.
It’s about freakin’ time we had a lying politician tax.
Those who want carbon taxes should be allowed to be taxed. Those who Don’t want to be taxed for their carbon use should be allowed to opt out. This will show who is a hypocrite and who is not. Will we hear… “that is not fair”..?
Haven’t had time to look through all the previous comments, but here’s my take.
The federal report is a total confirmation of what Alberta has been doing since July 1, 2007.
There is no intention from the federal government to impose any further taxes on the oilpatch, which falls under provincial jurisdiction.
That would evoke too many memories of the National Energy Program, in which Trudeau overstepped his taxation boundaries in contravention of provincial jurisdiction.
Even though some national columnists in the MSM have missed the point entirely, the fact remains Alberta is the first jurisdiction in Canada to actually do something about the issue.
Again, the oilpatch is a provincial concern and if a future federal government attempts a similar jurisdictional encroachement as the NEP did, Albertan will vote to separate.
It’s something Saskatchewan at B.C. people should also be wary of, since their oilpatch activity is increasing.
“Even though some national columnists in the MSM have missed the point entirely,….”
SOME ???
Does this mean that all immigration will immediately cease, refugees will not be allowed, and deportation of illegals will be stepped up so that these individuals do not add to our carbon footprint?
I am positive the Liberals and NDP would agree to this though it may affect their future voters.
Truthsayer: I was thinking the same thing. If those fools want so badly to pay a frickin’ carbon tax, by all means they should put up or shut up and volunteer to pay one. If that makes them feel better, by all means, go ahead. If they like to throw their money away, be my guest. Just don’t make the rest of us pay an extra tax for something we have no belief in.
Another Poll gone wrong:
http://toronto.24hrs.ca/
As a Winnipeger I would have trouble accepting anything involving ex mayor Glen Murray. I do not agree with carbon taxes or the mealy- mouthed “carbon price” he calls it to avoid saying the word tax.
Wonder how many public flights murray has taken?
Dogsled or walk!
Proud to help Steven Fletcher beat him!
I remember Murray had no qualifications to be there other than belonging to one of the left’s special groups,
I should add that trees eat CO2 and every day the star destroys acres how much should the Star pay or should they just be shut down for the sake of the planet.