You thought it was all about OIL …
You thought it was the AFGHAN PIPELINE…
You thought it was the illusive WMD …
… or, even DEMOCRACY in the ME …
Courageous and tenacious journalism has uncovered the truth … it’s all about the SBs.
source.
cross-posted @ Celestial Junk
Cjunk, I haven’t seen this edition of Monty Python’s “Spot the Loony” in years!
Don’t ever let anyone say that Ze Germans have lost the ability to produce fantastic propaganda!
Scratch the word “edition”, insert the word “sketch”.
There, I feel better now.
A story from Cjunk’s “source”…
Dara Shukoh: Chechnya is a leader of Jihad in the Muslim World!
“Chechnya has been the glorious example of Jihad in the Muslim world. The Chechenian history itself …”
How exciting!
Those whispering tones in the docu-voice tell us in such subtle tones how brave they were to sneak past the Bibles at the door and spy on these violent, scary people.
Did anyone hear about the Salvation Army Minister killed in Pakistan this week?
Didn’t think so…
I had no idea that Germans were so fuking stupid….
“I had no idea that Germans were so fuking stupid….”
they fell for Herr Hitler & Goebbels so nobody should be surprised they’ll lap up this stuff.
The Russians are re-arming. The Germans & French will come boot licking when the Ruskies start marching west.
Seriously though, a good bible thumping is just about as dangerous as a WMD … these journos were lucky to survive. Have you ever seen the size of a large print for seniors leather bound King James … you’d need full body armour to ward it off.
Ze fanatical Christianist martyrs. The victims rather than the perpetrators. Hows that for a screwed up definition? Oh, and armed with millions of tons of propoganda, rather than what, dynamite?
But this hardly tops what somebody was claiming on a thread yesterday – The Nazis were actually a Christian military regime. Based on this assertion, he was able to further claim that therefore Christians killed more people during the 20th century than muslims. And this comment came from a regular poster.
The war against stupid is getting dangerous.
Oh yes, the Missionaries —- foot soldiers in the religious wars. Some of the “best” wars the world has seen. Religions of peace n’ all that.
Yeah Paul2 but no one uses the KJV anymore some silly idea about the language of the people or something.
That doesn’t mean that the Bible insn’t dangerous after all the writer of Hebrews says that “The word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart”.
Sounds like a dangerous weapon, no?
irwin daisy: I too was stunned by that stupidity (Nazis being Christians). The flip side of this stupidity is that Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao murdered because they were atheists. Myself, I think, radical Germans murdered because they wore brown shirts.
Kudos on your excellent posts on the other thread about Islam. I consider you the best-informed poster at sda on this subject. AND, I have and have read the Karsh book: Islamic Imperialism as well as his Empires of the Sand, which fatally undermines the default apologia that western imperial meddling is the cause of all the problems.
Question for you: Belisaurius tells me that “abrogation” is just a theory, that muslims don’t “believe it”. What say you? It’s a very important issue I think if we are to get the Islam is War argument to stick.
Wow. We can only hope it’s true. The faster we convert those barbarians to our civilized religion, the better off the world will be. Imagine if there was n Islamin the world and try not to smile. Does anoyone know how I can donate to this cause.
What a hateful propaganda piece.
Except that it’s not at all funny–in fact, I find its bigotry and lies blasphemous–it reminds me of Joe Flaherty’s fictitious SCTV “blood sucking monkeys from Buffalo”. (“Be scared. . . be REALLY scared!”)
“Mass (sic) in Broken Arrow” at a “Baptits [sic]” church: what a joke! The makers of this “Tokyo Rose” garbage are not only dangerous: they’re colossal ignoramuses and idiots, to boot.
These Christian missionaries are SO scary: they help out, they bring much needed resources, they teach about the love of Jesus. (The Iraqis’ lives are already in danger and, heaven forbid, they should exercise freedom of choice!) And, yes, conflict is part of being a Christian–like part of even the most loving family, where truth doesn’t always mean peace–but these missionaries aren’t openly and brutally murdering Iraqis in huge numbers, in cold blood, like the jihadists are. But, boy ARE these Americans scary: no mention at all of the brutality of Muslim “missionaries”, whose MANDATE has nothing to do with “Love thy neighbour as thyself”, but is to MURDER the infidel–on his/her own soil (9/11, etc.), if possible. (How about murdering their fellow MUSLIMS in their own homes and neighbourhoods?)
The complete lack of context and balance in this piece altogether undermines what shred of credibility it may have imagined for itself. It’s eminently clear that this shoddy excuse for journalism is simply a juvenile smear, with not even a nod to being either factual or fair. (I don’t watch CBC, so don’t know if this has been aired there, but it’s just the kind of dangerous idiocy they’d lionize: maybe Avi Lewis could show it on his show and then defend it. Wouldn’t that be fun?)
ID – But this hardly tops what somebody was claiming on a thread yesterday – The Nazis were actually a Christian military regime.
Seriously ID, you need to improve your reading comprehension. That isn’t what I posted at all. I suggest you go back and read it again. I’m beginning to understand why you misinterpret so much of Islam.
I am right though, people who considered themselves Christian killed more people than Muslims in the 20th century – a lot more. Were their actions in keeping with Christian belief? Absolutely not.
INP, thanks. I’m laughing!
Ah, you don’t like it, do you, germs?
Holy war against Islam – you don’t like it?
In your face! Live with it. The world is not a game into one net anymore.
Todos:
1. Down with UN.
2. Down with UN, control shot.
Yes I believe Christians have always played a missionary role in this world. They come with bibles, but also food, medicine, tools and knowledge of how to teach the locals to prosper and have a better life. If they also choose to read a bible, fine, if not fine too. The important message I get from Christianity is simple … be good not bad. It’s that simple.
What is it the Islamic missionaries (Jihadists) do … oh yes now I remember … they blow people up.
“That if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteouness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Romans 10: 9-10
Christians believe with their heart and scripture mentions this numerous times in the Bible. Those who do not believe in Christ are doomed to be punished when they are judged by Christ, not doomed to be slaughtered at the hands of a dull knife-wielding ingrate Islam nutjob who believes he/she has the right to judge another human being.
The perfect collaboration of lunacy, Chechen terrorists and anti-American Germans. Finally, an American secret plot they both can wrap their combined bird brains around.
Europe is dead, folks.
Great video, we need more truth like this. Why go to the bother of blowing yourself up for your cause when you have the US military to do your dirty work for you.
Re -“Paul2 at October 8, 2007 12:03 PM”
“Seriously though, a good bible thumping is just about as dangerous as a WMD…”
Never forget the only ones with the WMD in Iraq are the invaders.
BTW. It was about the oil, Christian domination is just a side benefit of their occupation.
Belisaurius said:
I am right though, people who considered themselves Christian killed more people than Muslims in the 20th century – a lot more. Were their actions in keeping with Christian belief? Absolutely not.
I’m inferring here, that in the full bloom of moral equivalency, Belisaurius is trying to argue that Muslims are not killing in Islam’s name. What utter foolishness. That is simply wrong. All four schools of muslim jurisprudence call a spade a spade on jihad, as in, it ain’t joga Belisaurius. And again, the late Koran suras of Medina abrogate the earlier Meccan suras. Muhammed changed his mind and lo and behold new revelations from Allah (Mo’s alter ego!) arrived in the nick of time to confirm.
And again, read Khomenei’s quote on Jihad I posted elsewhere. He spit on Belisaurius’ kind of western liberal cognitive egocentrism.
I think for any German to comment on religion and war takes a lot of balls.
The flip side of this stupidity is that Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao murdered because they were atheists.
Me No Dhimmi, I pointed out several times that the 20th centuries greatest butchers [Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, and you can throw in Hitler] were atheists. These genocidal despots did not murder because they were atheists; they were murderous tyrants who acknowledged themselves as atheists.
MND – Belisaurius [sic] is trying to argue that Muslims are not killing in Islam’s name
I’m inferring nothing of the sort. Muslim radicals are doing just exactly that. Religion just happens to be their excuse. My point is that mass killing is not the exclusive domain of Muslim radicals. It’s a tragic, human practice that has reared its ugly head time and again.
I don’t condemn all Christians for what the Germans did and I don’t condemn all Muslims for the actions of the Jihadis either.
Trent, you’re right about half, but only half of your statement.
Oh, if you’re talking about the majority of Germans, you’re right, but there’s a silent minority you may not be aware of: devout Christians.
For example, in WW2, Germany, the perpetuator of horrific massacres of Jews and others, was also the European Axis/occupied European country where the largest number of Jews as a percentage of the population survived.
Why?
The brave work of the German baptist church among others, mostly among other Christians. So it’s a mixed bag. But, yes, most Germans are politically stupid and prone to believing crazy anti-American propoganda in my experience.
centuries = century’s
I’m with INP – where can I donate to this cause?
Those Christians – how awful, bringing Bibles with their humanitarian aid (channelling albatros). this sounds like CNN’s God’s Christian warriars.
there is no equivalence between Islam and Christianity. Christianity kept the Torah and expanded on it. Islam re-worked the Torah, Gospels, Talmud mixing up characters and events and then said that the Christians and Jews lied in their books. The more Muslims that read the Old and New Testaments, the better.
you might not know this, but observant Jews say this prayer 3 times a day:
For Thine is the kingdom, and to all eternity Thou wilt reign in glory, as it is written in Thy Torah: ‘The Lord shall reign forever and aye.’ And it is also said: ‘And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; on that day the Lord shall be One and His name be One.'”
as I said to lookout on a previous post, it is thanks to Jesus and Paul that the whole world reads Psalms, Proverbs, Exodus, the Book of Esther, and all the books of the Tanach (Old testament)
happy Thanksgiving to all SDA readers (you too ET – that calling your analysis Marxist really got to you eh?0
Me No Dhimmi,
It’s either abrogated, or dualistic. Where there is a peaceful, rational verse earlier in the Quran an opposing violent verse is found later. Either way it’s equally deceiptful. But then Mohammad said himself that “war is deceipt.”
Without this concept there would be no taqiyya or kitman, which the Muslims use to their advantage in conducting passive jihad, or cultural war against its enemies. Imams often say one thing to the infidels, while preaching the opposite to their congregations. This was recently proven again with the Muslim appointee to the Virginia immigration panel.
If you notice, other than his patently absurd claims, Belisarius makes claims offering no evidence, or facts:
“MND, abrogation truly is only a theory, and as I mentioned not widely believed. Muslims would be shocked at any suggestion that verses contradict or replace each other.” -Belisarius
That’s his m/o, at least on this subject.
He also ‘feels’ that:
“Most Muslims in Canada appreciate it and have no desire for Shariah.”
When, actually:
According to the last CBC poll, 53% of Muslims want to see some form of shariah adopted in Canada.
Morally equating Christianity with Islam is not only absurd, it’s fundamentally false.
Violence is foundational to Islam. This is proven in its commands and rewards in the Quran. It is also proven in its command for all Muslims to emulate Mohammads life, the perfect example.
This is not true of either the NT, or Christ’s life example.
When questioned to disprove this, Belisarius has repeatedly demonstrated that he cannot. Further, he makes the absurd claim that the Nazi military regime was Christian. This assertion, together with who knows what other diabolical Christian regimes, leads him to claim that Christians killed more people than Muslims in the 20th century.
The main problem with mounting a successful counter jihad against Islam is defining exactly what the problem is.
Morally equating the foundational ideology of Islam with Christianity is not only untrue, it’s irrelevant and harmful. By definition, calling Islam a ‘religion of peace,’ is equally harmful. As is the ‘war on terror.’
Islam must be properly understood and defined in order to either be defeated, or reformed. The truth is an ongoing casualty in this war, perpetrated by people like Belisarius.
ID – Islam must be properly understood and defined in order to either be defeated, or reformed.
I agree with you there, although there is obviously a very wide gulf in how we view Islam. I don’t believe that Islam as a whole needs to be defeated, although it clearly is in need of reform. Radical Islam, on the other hand, does need to be defeated.
I outlined my views on how this can be accomplished in the previous thread, ID. Let’s hear yours.
ex-liberal wrote, “as I said to lookout on a previous post, it is thanks to Jesus and Paul that the whole world reads Psalms, Proverbs, Exodus, the Book of Esther, and all the books of the Tanach (Old testament)”.
Thanks for that ex-l, you’re right on here. And I thank God for Jesus and his amazing apostle, Paul, who spread the light of the Word to the gentiles.
The Psalms are very precious to me: wise, beautiful, sometimes fierce pictures of the human soul. Yes, Jews and Christians share a divine heritage: truth, justice, and mercy are revered. It seems that these virtues are optional in Islam.
IMO, the attempts by some here to equate Christianity with Islam are, at the least, misguided.
Allow me to reveal myself to my fellow SDA fans. I’m a Baptist missionary in Mexico City. All this time I thought I was doing good, planting churches, running a camp for poor kids in this city supported by churches little prairie churches in Canada. I’ve been exposed…I’m working for the US govenrment with their direct blessing. It’s a holy war in Mexico!!!
Could this be considered yellow journalism?
http://mexicomitchells.blogspot.com
I figured it out…Harry Truman…The US president that oversaw the invation of Germany during WW2, was a Southern Baptist. There are still some bitter Germans in Das Keggerland.
The makers of that documentary appeared to be unaware that this kind of activity has been going on for 2000 years…it didn’t start in the U.S.A.
Much more to be thankful for today; a rich exchange from Bible believers using the freedom of the internet, and the pronouncement of God’s word.
And that a docu-dramas from Germany(or was it Holland) can instigates these discussions.
Is. 55:11
‘Biff,
I enjoyed that little entry about Bimbo the bread company. I have a Santos shirt with Bimbo advertised on it. I also have Tigres, Chivas, and I’m wearing my Cruz Azul shirt at this very moment (it’s 30 in T.O. today and I find footy shirts to be best when it’s this warm).
September 13, 2001 9:05 a.m.
Ann Coulter writes, people listen.
“We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.”
From time to time I still encounter people who are so misinformed that they either believe the Nazis were Christian or at least believe the Nazis claimed to be Christians while behaving in a manner contrary to Christian practice. There are several sources that clearly deomonstrate that the Nazis were not only not Christian but were also strongly anti-Christian.
One source is listed below. It is a 1943 video about 52 minutes long: all of it is worth watching. However, the items of interest may be viewed from about 12:30-18:30 . Around 12:30 it begins to document the enemies of interest to the fascists. At 15:20, the churches are mentioned. Throughout the history of Christianity, churches and their practices have been criticized from time to time. However, the blasphemy stated in 17:15-17:35 can only be attributed to an anti-Christian. This is certainly not a Christian by any measure. These statements should settle the issue for those interested in original sources.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2906105120123049935
Brent, you can’t be serious. Your source is the American 1943 propaganda piece “why we fight”?
Let’s cut to the chase here. The holocaust was committed by Germans. Germans were Christians. Therefore, the perpetrators of the holocaust were Christians. End of story.
Christians are just as capable of atrocity as anybody else. Look at Bosnia in the 1990’s. At least 100,000 Bosnian Muslims were murdered by Serbian Christians (and possibly as many as 300,000). The massacre of the 8000 inhabitants of Srebrenica is the best known incident of this war. The killing didn’t stop until NATO intervened.
Let’s stop trying to pretend that Christians aren’t capable of horror. We are.
I don’t know, can’t a “missionary” help with volunteer work without throwing bibles around? Do you have to wear your religion on your sleeve to do good? I’m not belittling their work, but I think selling religion does. Oh, and the German expose was stupid.
Being an atheist, I find this debate on the merits of different religions quite amusing. But I do know a few things that are irrefutable facts.
1. Christian leaders counsel to reach out, convert and love. Muslim leaders counsel to kill, detonate, lie and beat their women.
2. My father-in-law was forced as a child into the Hitler Youth. He said that the churches fought the nazis every step of the way. Unless you were there, one has no way of knowing what really happened. My father-in-law was there, (he is sitting here reading this crap with me)and he wants the moonbat to know that he is an ignorant idiot.
To every single poster(Belisarius, Cal, albatros39a) pointing a finger at Christianity I have one thing to say to you: I don’t believe you.
According to your logic, you obviously live in a murderous “Chrsitian Regime” at this very moment and until you begin posting comments from Saudi Arabia or Iran AGAINST Islam, all you are doing is blowing hot air out of your bung-holes.
Doug,
What precisely have I posted that you don’t believe? Please explain.
Kingstonlad – Unless you were there, one has no way of knowing what really happened.
Not true. The holocaust is the best documented mass murder in history, with mountains of evidence.
I worked on a Church plant for the German Baptist Church AKA North American Baptist but we didn’t seek permission from Chancellor Helmut Kohl. At another time I worked on a Southern Baptist Church plant but I didn’t ask permission from Bill Clinton. I don’t think Helmut or Bill knew I was planting churches or for that matter cared.
As for those who are debating with the disingenuous moral equivalency advocates, the historically challenged who can’t understand that the Nazis were not Christian, the intellectually lazy who debase enduring faith with Marxist analysis or the rabid secular humanist/socialist remember the words of Jeremiah and St Paul.
“If you have raced with men on foot and they have worn you out, how can you compete with horses? If you stumble in safe country, how will you manage in the thickets by the Jordan?”
“For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.”
By allowing the moral equivalency, intellectually bankrupt/dishonest, socialist crowd to dominate and determine our societal norms we sow the wind and reap the whirlwind. The stalk has no head; it will produce no flour. Were it to yield grain, foreigners would swallow it up. (Hosea)
Islam at its core is a nasty religion, of that there can be no debate but much of their aggression toward the west is in response to our hedonistic, narcissistic culture. Islam would still seek to reform the west but were Judeo – Christianity at the fore we would have a more focused defence against this aggression. We could understand what it is that is attacking us and have the weapons needed to win this war.
Call it what you will Religion = Cult.
It continues to amaze me that people of a free world who claim to have an open society along with the freedom of speech and thought, subscribe to crazy ideologies that dictate how they will live life and force it on others.
As the video personality stated
“Our activities can lead to people dying, we are aware of that. But to spend eternity in heaven and not in hell – seems like a good deal”.
What gives this idiot the right to decide that for you or me? How truly would he know what’s good or right for anyone? No different than some minion of Caesar sacrificing your young daughter to Zeus or Apollo for a fertile crop year.
It’s very scary when religious cults like Islam utilize human weapons to enforce their will on others. It reaches another level when the same fundamentalism packaged in new wrappings, is backed with a modern army.
For all the good “some” religions do in this world, protecting the weak & allowing security for the weak of mind, far more suffering and death will be dealt out at the hand of others righteousness. It will be interesting to know in the future {hypothetically} if Christianity wins over Islam, and of course the other religions (Remember over billion communist Chinese with their own blooming modern army), which Christian sects then turn on each other? Much like the bloody Sunni verses Shiite tantrums; will it be Baptist against Catholic, Jehovah against Lutheran or Mormon against Anglican? Guaranteed there will be bloodshed, it’s simply a matter of who has the support of the government at that time. Yea, yea I know “our religions have evolved passed all that” sure until things aren’t going your way, or all the obvious opponents to your ideals are defeated so you find less obvious antagonists to scare your flock!
Keep church and state separate, or your grandchildren will be living with Sharia law in the West!
This video would be funny, if it were not for the millions of people who watch this sort of stuff and think it’s the truth. I’m sure it appeals to Europeans who have long since given up the idea that anyone could have a religion that is an important part of their life.
I’m about half-way through reading Eusebius’s Ecclesiastical History. The fuzzy-minded among us see no difference between a Christian martyr and an extremist jihadi. But the martyr is one who dies rather than denying the faith, rather than someone who kills to spread the faith.
Sorta to be expected. Watched a very good documentary the other day about a concentration camp survivor returning to Germany for the first time.
He visited one school to talk to the kids and one of the comments from the kids was basically that there is no differenc between what the Nazis did and the US involvement in Vietnam.
Joe – …the Nazis were not Christian…
That is a load of apologist BS. And who said anything about Nazis? The GERMANS carried out the holocaust. The Nazis were the political party in power, widely supported by the population. It’s the same sort of crap German burgermeisters tried to pull after German’s defeat, when confronted about the neighbourhood extermination camp. “Oh, we didn’t know.” Total crap.
sorry dude. You may have a body count, you may know the names of the murderer’s. But no way on earth do you know the individual effort of pastors, priests and rabbis in trying to prevent the holocaust. The holocaust was not done in the name of God. Islamowhackjobs homicide bombing innocent civilians is done in the name of God.
You moonbats will just not acknowledge facts, eh?
Belisarius (amused you’d used a sic after my misspelling your handle!):
Let’s try again: First of all, I’ve never said “all muslims” desire subjugation and/or murder of infidels. Ever. Look, if you’ll pardon some Jewish vernacular, most of the population are schumcks. Most know nothing about their religion, Christians and Muslims alike.
Here’s what I mean: There’s no moderate Islam, radical Islam. Only Islam practiced or lapsed (very very quietly of course). Do you understand Islam better than Ayaan Hirsi Ali?
Muslims are either devout Muslims or cultural Muslims only, like I’m a cultural Catholic Christian atheist. If I lose it some day and lead a militia against CAIR in Washington, it won’t be because I’m a Christian [note to Big Brother: kidding of course].
The crux of the matter is this: Is the killing done with support from holy text? Phrased this way, you’re totally crazy to try and equate Nazi mass murder with Muslim mass-murder. In the latter case they site dozens and dozens and dozens of passages from the Koran which, repeating, abrogate any earlier peaceful passages.
What sacred text did the Nazis cite to justify their mass murder of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and weaklings?