And underneath you’ll find an anti-Semite;
Left-wing extremists and PA Arabs destroyed thousands of grape vines belonging to local Jews in Samaria Wednesday. Some one hundred Arabs and leftists, along with dozens of Arab TV crews certified by various news agencies, marched to a Jewish vineyard near the town of Dolev, northwest of Jerusalem, and proceed to systematically uproot and destroy thousands of young grapevines.
The PA- appointed mayor of Ramallah took part in the march. Though the police and army had been forewarned that the Arabs and leftists were planning a provocation, security forces arrived only after most of the vineyard had already been uprooted.
[…]
The phenomenon of left-wing extremists, from both Israel, Europe and the United States, destroying Jewish vineyards and orchards in Judea and Samaria, though widespread, has rarely been covered by Israel’s state-run media and has never appeared in foreign news agency reports.
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you…”
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=israel+uprooting+of+palestinian+crops&spell=1
neither side is right, but the least you can do is present the information with a little context.
This post – which references a Orthodox extremist fringe newspaper (censored by the military) that most Israelis think is retarded – doesn’t contain an attack on either Jesus or Christians; do you still get paid your two shekels from the Mossad?
uh huh . . .http://jonjayray.tripod.com/hitler.html
The simple truth does not change: the farmers need guns for pest control.
Next thing you know the Arabs will be building a mosque right on top of the holiest site in Judaism, thereby acting as the ultimate symbol of – what do the Left and the “Arabs” call it? Oh yeah – occupation.
There is s group called the ISM and this sounds like their work. They actively recruit college and university campuses world wide to encourage activists. This group has been responsible in the past for actions like this. Remember the peacenik that was supposedly run over by Israeli military driving bulldozers? That was them in action. Their tactics are to bring in a busload of these “activists” and goad them into provoking the Israeli police or military into reacting. They have blood on their hands!
The young dupes are just your run of the mill useful idiots ….. the recruiters and organizers malign and dangerous zealots in the violent cause of the Islamists in Gaza and the West Bank.
Google ISM and Stop The ISM for background.
Careful – this is a complex situation. After all, it is well documented that the Israeli settlers regularly destroy the olive farms of their Palestinian neighbours – by cutting down the trees just at harvest time or going in and stealing the harvest.
This is a conflict between two views about ownership of the land. The Israeli settlers view the land as theirs ‘by theistic right’, ie, ‘god gave it to them’. The Palestinians view the land as theirs by ‘civic right’, ie, they paid for title to that land.
Obviously, I reject theistic judgments and view title to land as a civic matter. I can understand, theoretically, a rejection of a civic judgment over ‘natural objects’ – ie, the view that we don’t own ‘what is natural’. But, even though this can be theoretically understood, socially – it is denied. A people, a nation does own the raw resources in its boundaries; it does own the oil, the gas, the water, the land. And, it has no rights to the oil, gas, water, land of another nation.
Therefore, – I don’t think that any people can get away with a theistic claim to the land.
But, until this is settled, this back and forth destruction will continue.
You need to know a bit more of the history of Israel and Palestine in order to pass judgment regarding who gave land to whom. Start with British drawing the map of ME. Do your homework.
“The Palestinians view the land as theirs by ‘civic right’, ie, they paid for title to that land.”
Actually, that’s in large part the Israeli position. They bought the land and improved it, which caused an influx of Muslims who couldn’t or wouldn’t do the same for themselves.
Even today, Palestinians cross into Israel for work that doesn’t exist where they live.
The Palestinian position is really “we are Muslims. We are to spread Islam by force. We will not allow what was once Dar al-Islam to be Dar al-Harb.”
“Do your homework.”
Why don’t you start with what the Phakestinians teach their children as opposed to what the Israelis teach theirs.
When you’re done with your reading assigment you can come back here. But if you puke on the bandwidth again, we will kick your sorry ass out of school.
“Do your homework.”
Why don’t you start with what the Phakestinians teach their children as opposed to what the Israelis teach theirs.
When you’re done with your reading assigment you can come back here. But if you puke on the bandwidth again, we will kick your sorry ass out of school.”
Grow up. And learn to spell in the process!
Actually, I have done my homework and I stand by my position. The post WWI remapping of the ME after the fall of the Turkish control doesn’t change a thing about individual civic ownership vs theistic ownership of the land.
The Palestinians were farming that land for centuries – by civic right. The Israeli view that individual civic rights don’t matter but that theistic rights of a religion are superior – I don’t accept that.
Furthermore, both sides teach their children to hate the other. I’m sure you’ve read how children on both sides behave to each other – never mind how the adults behave.
No, mississauga matt – the Israelis did not buy the land from the Palestinians. No compensation has ever been paid for lands lost to settlements.
Furthermore, the reason that the Israeli lands produce good harvests is because they irrigate those lands; Palestinians are forbidden to use the water for irrigation – they may only use it for personal household use. And, there are no jobs in the occupied lands because there is no farming – other than basic sustenance – allowed, and no industrial devt’ (road travel is governed by the Israeli military).
No, the Palestinian position is not Islamic fascism. Islamic fascism emerged out of the tribal political regimes of Iran, Iraq, SA, Egypt – and has NOTHING to do with the Israeli-Palestinian land conflict. Nothing.
The Arab states have always been indifferent to Palestinians – considering them ignorant peasants – and most certainly, did not want them to have a state, a democratic state, in their midst. They just used the Palestinian reality to get back at Israel.
Now- the Israeli-Palestinian land situation is being used by the Islamic fascists as a tactic to ‘export’ Islamic fascism to the West. But, I think we will see less and less of this, as the West manages to sweep Islamic fascism back out of the West – and where it belongs. As an internal fight in the ME states between tribalism and democracy. Again – Islamic fascism has NOTHING to do with the Israeli-Palestinian situation. That’s completely and totally different – and the Islamic fascists are actually harming the Palestinians with that rhetoric.
Whoa, Doug, I wonder WHO do you speak FOR?
The Arab world would have us believe that the Palestinians have been in “Palestine” from “time immemorial” but were displaced by the Jews when Israel became a state in 1948. But what are the facts?
While we are not certain of the exact dates, Joshua conquered the Land God promised the Jews in the 13th century BCE. King David established Jerusalem as the capital of Israel around 1000 BCE. King Solomon built the Jewish Temple about 960 BCE. This was almost 1000 years before the beginning of Christianity and 1600 years before the rise of Islam. As Prime Minister Barak has noted, “When Jesus came to Jerusalem to celebrate the feasts, he didn’t come to a church or a mosque, he came to the Temple.” It is not the Church Mount or the Mosque Mount that is fought over, it is the Temple Mount. It was the Temple Mount centuries before Christianity tried to make it the Church Mount and Islam tried to make it the Mosque Mount.
However, not to be confused with facts, in a personal audience I had several years ago with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who was appointed by Arafat, he boldly declared that the Arabs had been living in the Land for 10,000 years. Based on conservative Bible chronology, that means the Arabs have been living in the Land before the Almighty created Adam and Eve.
How did Israel become Palestine and who are the Palestinians? The second Jewish war with the Romans took place in 132-135 CE. Led by Rabbi Akiva and Simon bar Kochba, the Jewish uprising was crushed by the Roman Emperor Hadrian who sought to de-Judaize Jerusalem and make it a pagan city. Hadrian renamed Jerusalem “Aelia Capitolina” in honor of Jupiter. He changed the name of Judea and gave it the name of the Jews ancient enemy, the Philistines. He called it — Palestine.
Over time, Palestine was ruled by the Roman Byzantines (312-637) [Persian interrupt 614-629], Omayyad Arabs (638-750), Islamic Abbassid’s (750-1099), Crusaders (1099-1291) [Saladin the Kurd interrupt 1187-93], Mamluks (1291-1516), Ottoman Turks (1517-1917), and the British Mandate (1917-1948). None of these rulers established a sovereign state in the Land and Jerusalem was never the capital of any empire since the time of King David. Palestine was a forgotten desolate, wasteland, but historical records show there was always a Jewish presence in the Land.
The revival of modern Jewish life in the Land began in the 1880’s with the arrival of Russian refugees from the Russian pogroms. A second wave of immigration, also from Russia, was in 1905. This was followed by later immigrations resulting in a growing Jewish population in the Land. When the Jews came to the Land, they found a malaria infested swamp in the north and an uninhabitable desert in the south. It was as if the God of the Bible had kept the Land hidden away in obscurity until the rightful owners — the Jews returned to claim it.
The Jewish pioneers did not steal the Land from the Arabs. They purchased the Land at highly inflated prices from absentee landlords living outside the Land. As the Jews worked the Land, it began to prosper. While there were Jews and Arabs living in the Land, there were many poor migrant Arab farm workers in the surrounding Arab countries who needed work. When they heard that the Land was prospering under the hand of the Jews, they migrated to Palestine to get work from the Jews. Furthermore, the British allowed many thousands of Arabs into Palestine illegally while barring the Jews from entering the Land. For the most part, the Arab Palestinians are these peasant farm workers and illegal aliens. “Palestinians” have never been a distinct people, they have never had a sovereign land called Palestine, Jerusalem has never been their capital, there is no Palestinian language or culture, and there is no Palestinian people. It is a myth created after the Jews liberated Jerusalem in 1967.
Before the birth of the State of Israel, Arab leaders themselves denied the existence of an Arab country called Palestine. In 1937, Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi said, “There is no such country [as Palestine]! ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. ‘Palestine” is alien to us; it is the Zionists who introduced it.” In 1946, a distinguished Princeton professor and Arab historian said, “There is no such thing as Palestine in Arab history, absolutely not.”
All who lived in the Land, Jews, Arabs, and Christians, were called Palestinians. In fact, the Jerusalem Post was called the Palestinian Post. Under the British Mandate, the Palestinian Jews were given a state. But before this state came into existence, Colonial Secretary, Winston Churchill, in 1922, took away seventy-seven percent of the geographic area promised to the Jews and created Transjordan as a state for the Palestinian Arabs. Israel would be for the Palestinian Jews and Transjordan (now Jordan) for the Palestinian Arabs.
Israel became a state in the War of Independence in 1948. At that time, approximately 600,000 Arabs fled to become refugee pawns in the hands of neighboring Arab states. Some number of Arabs stayed to become Israeli citizens. While we certainly sympathize with the plight of the Arab refugees, their problems could easily be solved if their Arab brothers cared enough to assimilate them as the Jews did their own 800,000 immigrants who were kicked out from the Arab countries.
“The Palestinians were farming that land for centuries – by civic right. ”
Really? Here’s Mark Twain on his 1867 visit:
“Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren, they are dull of color, they are unpicturesque in shape. The valleys are unsightly deserts fringed with a feeble vegetation that has an expression about it of being sorrowful and despondent. The Dead Sea and the Sea of Galilee sleep in the midst of a vast stretch of hill and plain wherein the eye rests upon no pleasant tint, no striking object, no soft picture dreaming in a purple haze or mottled with the shadows of the clouds. Every outline is harsh, every feature is distinct, there is no perspective–distance works no enchantment here. It is a hopeless, dreary, heart-broken land.
Small shreds and patches of it must be very beautiful in the full flush of spring, however, and all the more beautiful by contrast with the far-reaching desolation that surrounds them on every side. I would like much to see the fringes of the Jordan in spring-time, and Shechem, Esdraelon, Ajalon and the borders of Galilee–but even then these spots would seem mere toy gardens set at wide intervals in the waste of a limitless desolation.
Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies. Where Sodom and Gomorrah reared their domes and towers, that solemn sea now”
Here’s the British Royal Commission report in 1913:
“The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track suitable for transport by camels and carts … no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached Yabna village…. Houses were all of mud. No windows were anywhere to be seen…. The ploughs used were of wood…. The yields were very poor…. The sanitary conditions in the village were horrible. Schools did not exist…. The rate of infant mortality was very high…. The western part, towards the sea, was almost a desert…. The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.”
As Michael Medved asks, perhaps you can tell us who the “famous Palestinians through the millennia—the architects and scientists and writers and spiritual leaders” were? I’m dying to hear this one.
“Last week, foreign activists, at least one claiming to be a journalist, engaged residents in an hours-long discussion regarding Jewish rights to live in Judea, Samaria and Israel as a whole. The foreigners, from the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), Palestine Solidarity Movement (PSM), Taayush and other groups, claimed to be on a fact-finding tour and were accompanied by local Arab handlers.”
……from following links in the article.
The little useful idiot Rachael Corrie was an ISM member. These people are stupid twits. Too bd they weren’t caught on video.
It would be revealing to see exactly who funds them.
You people are on your own on this thread, so behave. I have shekels to count!
mississauga matt – your anecdotal reports are irrelevant. The same could be said of Canada in the winter – and have you ever read similar reports about Australia!
The fact is – that the land base there had been supporting several hundred thousand people, called Palestinians, for hundreds of years. The economy was peasant sustenance agriculture – which is a local mode of small household farming, dependent on natural resources of natural soil, water, ie, rainfall as seasonal, and wells. No irrigation; and small animal husbandry – and olives etc. That kept the people. The fact that the ploughs were wood; that the houses didn’t have windows (which kept the heat, flies and sun out) – is irrelevant. The fact that they didn’t have schools is equally irrelevant – neither did Europe until the -19th c..
The land ownership was legal, ie, ratified by the governorship.
Furthermore – to focus on ‘famous Palestinians – ie, architects, writers, scientists, spiritual leaders – is irrelevant. After all, surely you aren’t going to make having such people a REQUIREMENT for land ownership!!!???
I’ve said – many times – that Islam as a religion has produced no science – because it rejects reason, rejects the individual, rejects change, rejects progress etc – but that is simply not relevant to the topic being discussed – which is the Right To Ownership of Land.
Is this right by virtue of a civic agreement, where you have bought title from the authorized governance? Or is it by theistic authority, where a people claim that ‘god’ gave it to them?
Or is the right to land ownership by ‘proper use’ – which proper use is defined by someone else.
After all, we Europeans defined the indigeneous hunting and gathering economies, and primitive horticulture as ‘improper’ or irrelevant use of the land – and felt quite justified in taking the lands away from them.
Or is the Right To Land defined if your ethnic group contains scientists, architects, etc, etc?
I maintain that the Right to Land is a civic and legal jurisdication. And only a civic and legal jurisdiction. Theism plays no role. The scientific output of an ethnic group plays no role. A definition of ‘proper use’ plays no role.
So- if the land was governed by X-authority (in this case, the Turks or the British)..and as such, an individual had paid for and had legal, taxable ownership – my view is that that individual has civic and legal right to the land. If anyone wants to take that land – I think it has to be done in a civic and legal manner – ie compensation has to be paid.
Just as it is done when a gov’t here expropriates land for, eg, a highway – it has to pay for that land. Surely a gov’t is not going to define my right to my 100 acres as to whether/not I am ‘farming it properly’; or whether/not my ethnic or religious community produces scientists!
ET, are you deaf and blind? Compensations have been paid as long as it was civil. As soon as Arabs became violent, they got the lead as payment and Israel won the war. The Arabs lost the war. Only the UN (= Soviet union under Stalin) saved the Arabs from annexation of large chunks of their land by Israel. That speaks volumes about legality of Israely presence there and now.
The Jews have been buying land from the English for decades before the mandate.
The Romans punitively changed the name of the land from Israel to Palestine. At the time there were no Muslims living there. In fact, there were no Muslims period. Neither were there Arabs living there.
Of course, half a century later, the bloody Muslims came along and conquered every land they possibly could, including Palestine.
Given the observations of Mark Twain and others, obviously the land wasn’t much good for supporting human beings (reminds me of the saying that if you allow Muslims into your land they’ll surely make it into a desert, as they have their own), so it’s rather doubtful there were many Muslims living there, prior to the Jews making it productive again.
From the information I’ve read, the Muslims then moved back in en masse, or were pushed back into the land by other Muslim nations. They then of course claimed it all as Muslim land – as the freaks still do with Spain.
So called, Palestinians, do not have a culture and are not a nationality, based on the tenets and markers of any other functioning and recognized nation.
What do they produce other than death?
And what does it take to be ‘Palestinian’ other than moving in and proclaiming yourself one? Furthermore, are there any Christian ‘Palestinians’ left, or have they all been slaughtered yet?
Watching the Palistinians is like watching Hillbilly Homecoming episode on Jerry Springer: they spend all their time screwing each other and not being productive.
As far as lost causes go, these guys are it. give them land (with all the infrastructure)and they trash it and use it to launch rockets deeper into Israel.
aaron – no, I’m not deaf and blind. I disagree that compensation was paid – ever- for the settlements.
I don’t think that your view ‘as soon as the arabs became violent they got lead’ as payment. Are you saying that all it takes to get land from someone who has a civic ownership of that land, is to invade, and when the owner ‘becomes violent’ – you shoot them. And this bullet is ‘payment’? You don’t expect them to defend their farms and homes? You insist that they should not be violent?
The fact that the Arabs lost the war has nothing to do with land expropriation. The Germans lost the war too – but I haven’t noticed that Canadians and Americans have taken over the homes, farms etc of Germans. However, your point is that the land was taken in war – because the ‘arabs became violent’ when their land was being expropriated – and thus, as a result of war – they have no rights to the land.
That’s your view. I have a different view.
Irwin daisy – your analysis of Right To Ownership seems to be a regressive one – ie, you want to focus on Ultimate Origin. That would, for example, preclude our Right to Own our homes in Canada and the US etc – as the Original owners were the indigeneous peoples. I don’t think that ‘Original ownership’ from the Beginning of Time is a viable method of claiming Right to Ownership.
You are quite ignorant of diverse economic modes – you may denigrate a non-industrial method of sustenance, ie, a local peasant sustenance that is focused around small scale transhumance (a few goats and sheep), small scale horticulture with yes, a wooden plough – but that, by the way, was the normal mode of any people – Christians, Jews, Muslims – in that region – regardless of the religion – for centuries. It is capable of supporting a population in several hundred thousands. The pre-Israel population estimates were about 600,000. That’s about right for a non-industrial peasant transhumance agricultural mode.
Israel moved in as a modern, technologically industrial economic mode. Don’t confuse the two.
Please don’t confuse the two modes. There is no way that the Palestinian or Christian or Jewish peasant farmer could move into an industrial technology on his own. Israel brought the technological advances of the WEST – and the money for this technology – with them.
I don’t know what you mean by ‘having a culture’. Everyone has a culture – culture means the beliefs and behaviour within which you live your life. That includes your economic mode – which may be peasant farming; it includes how you live your daily life; it includes your religion or no religion etc. So- to say that someone has ‘no culture’ is really incorrect.
The reason Palestinians aren’t a nationality is because they haven’t been allowed to self-govern their land base as a nation. After all, at one time, Canada wasn’t a nation and there was no nationality of ‘Canadian’. Same thing with other countries. ‘Nationhood’ is not a natural but a social attribute.
What does it take to be, let’s say, Australian – other than moving in and proclaiming ‘this is Australia’? Or Canada. Or America. Or Germany. And so on. After all – we didn’t spring ‘fully formed and armed’ from the earth. Our species began, presumably, in Africa, and over time, spread over the earth. Now- are you going to say that the peoples who gradually moved into Germany were wrong to settle there? The peoples who might have moved in and supplanted them/intermarried with them – were they wrong to do so?
Your hatred of Muslims is, I suggest, blinding you to these things.
I, myself, totally reject Islamic fascism – but that has nothing to do with the Israeli-Palestinian situation.
Islamic jihadists — Death to America! Death to Israel!
Lefies — Death to America! Death to Israel!
Ever notice how many spoiled rich kid protesters wear the Yasser Arafat scars at their social events?
never mind homework kids and turtles. read the bible. what terrific foresight is contained in the book.
“Based on conservative Bible chronology, that means the Arabs have been living in the Land before the Almighty created Adam and Eve.”
Coo coo for coco puffs.
“So called, Palestinians, do not have a culture and are not a nationality,”
No dehumanizing going on here.
“your anecdotal reports are irrelevant”
Actually, they are rather relevant, for with ease they demolish that absurd “The Palestinians were farming that land for centuries” nonsense that you pulled out of your ass.
I mean, honestly, that has to be the jackass statement of all time, and from you of all people. Not even Palis will make it, ’cause they know that’s going too far – people will start asking questions.
Not knowing the full situation, I still say this sounds a lot like the OPP showing up to a Mohawk Warrior invasion at a building site… and helping the Warriors.
Funny how the IDF didn’t show until -after- the crop was ruined eh? Somebody thinks politics are more important than private property. Sure hope Farmer Joe there has insurance.
“No dehumanizing going on here”
Pay attention, troll boy.
You can’t dehumanize a ghost. “Palestinian” is a made-up identity. The name comes from Philistine, one time foes of the Jews. Evidently the name Philistines in Hebrew is plishtim, which comes from the Hebrew verb polshim (foreign invaders).
That certainly describes the Muslims who poured out of the Arabian peninsula and ransacked the Holy land and Israel, an occupation that continues to this day.
ET: If you don’t know of something, it does not mean that thing does not exist. How do you think it was possible for the Jews to move from pogrom’med Russia to Holy Land back in 1880s and not buy the land? Think on the scale of probability of what would have happened to a handful of repatriants if they stole the land from the locals. This was 1880, not 1980 and not 2007, my learned friend. Life of a Jew was not worth much anywhere in the world. It is worth alot more since we took up the arms. Chaim Yisroel!
For all you jew-hating trolls, courtesy of LGF, read Nekama’s Troll Hammer:
MEMO
This is an automated reply from the Bullshit Detector at Little Green Footballs.
Your recent post contained troll-like characteristics which resembles the type of message sent by spoiled ISM members on summer holiday, college students who have recently inhaled Noam Chomsky’s foul rantings, Adam Shapiro wannabes, Nazi sympathizers, or genuine Koranimals.
In order to prevent another thread being hijacked, and to send your message to the appropriate department for response (FOAD, GAZE, Go Away Gordon, or The Bus To Rachel Corrie’s Tomb Is Leaving – Be Sure You’re Under It), kindly reply to the following questions:
1. Are you aware that the Disputed Territories never belonged to the “Palestinians” and only came into Israeli possession as a result of the 1967 six day war in which Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon all massed forces at Israel’s border in order to “push the Jews into the sea”. The Arabs lost and Israel took control of the land. Do you agree that if the Koranimals don’t want to lose territory to Israel, then they shouldn’t start wars? Do you agree that there is justice that Israel, who as far back as 1948 has always sought peace with her far larger neighbors, should live in prosperity – making the desert bloom – while the residents of 19 adjacent Arab countries who are blessed with far more land as well as oil wealth live in their own feces?
2. Did you know that the “Palestinians” could have had their own country as far back as 1948 had they accepted the UN sponsored partition plan which gave Israel AND the Palestinians a countries of their own on land which Jews had lived on for thousands of years before Mohammed ever had a wet dream about virgins? The Arabs rejected the UN offer and went to war with the infant Israeli nation. The Arabs lost and have been whining about it ever since. Do you agree this is like a murderer who kills his parents and asks for special treatment since he is now an orphan?
3. Can you tell us ANY Arab country which offers Jews the right to be citizens, vote, own property, businesses, be a part of the government or have ANY of the rights which Israeli Arabs enjoy? Any Arab country which gives those rights to Christians? How about to other Arabs? Wouldn’t you just LOVE to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, or Syria?
4. Since as many Jews (approximately 850,000) were kicked out of Arab countries as were Arabs who left present day Israel (despite being literally begged to stay), why should Arabs be permitted to return to Israel if Jews aren’t allowed to set foot in Arab countries? Can you explain why Arabs can worship freely in Israel but Jews would certainly be hung from street lamps after having their intestines devoured by an Arab mob if they so much as entered an Arab country?
5. Israel resettled and absorbed all of the Jews from Arab countries who wished to become Israelis. Why haven’t any Arab countries offered to resettle Arabs who were displaced from Israel, leaving them to rot for 60 years in squalid refugee camps? And why are those refugee camps still there? Could it be that the billions of dollars that the UNWRA has sent there goes to terrorist groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, El Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or Hezbollah? How did Yassir Arafat achieve his $300 million in wealth? Why aren’t these funds distributed for humanitarian use?
6. Did you know that the Arabs in the disputed territories (conquered by Israel in the 1967 war which was started by Arabs) and who are not Israelis already have two countries right now? And that they are called Egypt and Jordan?
7. If your complaint is about the security fence which Israel is finally building in the Disputed Territories, are you aware that it is built solely to keep the “brave” Arab terrorists out so that they can no longer self detonate on busses, in dining halls or pizzerias and kill Jewish grandmothers and schoolchildren? Why are the Arabs so brave when they target unarmed civilians but even when they outnumber their opponents they get their sandy asses kicked all the way to Mecca when they are faced with Jewish soldiers? Why do Arab soldiers make the French look like super heroes?
8. Please explain why you are so concerned about Arabs, who possess 99% of the land in this region and are in control of the world’s greatest natural resource, which literally flows out of the ground? Can’t their brother muslims offer some of the surplus land and nature’s riches to the “Palestinians”? Or is it true that Arabs are willing to die right down to the last “Palestinian”?
9. Why do you not exhibit the same level of concern for say, people in Saudi Arabia who are beheaded, subject to amputation, stoning, honor killing etc.? What about women who are denied any semblance of basic civil rights, including the right not to be treated as property for the entertainment and abuse of her father, brothers, or husbands? What about the Muslims in Sudan and Egypt who are still enslaved, or the women there whose genitalia are barbarically cut off? How about the oppression of Shiites by Sunnis, the gassing of the Kurds by Iraq, or the massacre of “Palestinians” by Jordan (Black September)? Why doesn’t this concern you?
10. Did you ever stop to wonder how much better off everyone in the region would be if Arabs stopped trying to kill Jews and destroy Israel? What would happen if the Israelis gave up their weapons and disarmed? Would they live to see the next day? But what would happen if the Arabs completely disarmed? You know the answer: They would all be AT PEACE! And if there is no war to rile them up, the Arabs would be forced to look at their own repressive, pre-medieval societies. Why would they want to do that when there are Jews to kill?
11. Have you heard “People who define themselves primarily by what they hate, rather than who they love, are doomed to failure and misery”? Can you see the parallels to the Arabs, who are blessed with land and oil, but still gladly train their children to kill themselves in order to kill Jews? Have you heard Golda Meir’s words to the effect of “There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate ours”? Why do the Arabs hate so much?
Please state your answers to the questions listed above. If you need assistance or require additional study, then please refer to the following links:
Thousands of women killed for honor: [Link: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html%5D
Muslims lament Israel’s existence:
[Link: http://www.iht.com/search/search.phpwww.iht.com%5D
Disputed Territories – Forgotten Facts
[Link: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2003/2/DISPUTED%20TERRITORIES-%20Forgotten%20Facts%20About%20the%20We%5D
The size of Israel compared to neighboring countries in the region
[Link: http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps.htm#index%5D
One Million Jews flee Arab countries – why no right of return for them?
[Link: http://www.forgottenexodus.com]
Middle East Facts
[Link: yashiko.middleeastfacts.com]
Middle East Truth
[Link: http://www.mideasttruth.com]
Larry Miller on Hypocrisy
[Link: http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/161yaihr.asp%5D
Please respond to the items listed above. Based on your answers a thoughtful reply or instruction to FOAD will be provided.
Thank you for writing to Little Green Footballs.
Signed,
Troll Early Warning Detection Team
Ya know, my people where driven out of East Prussia by the Russians and the Poles (that is if they made it out alive) in ’44 and ’45. Funny, but they’re not trying to murder Poles and Russkis nowadays, even though East Prussia has been German since “time immemorial”. The same can be said of pretty much every corner of the world over the last 2,000 years.
The Arabs in what is euphemistically called “Palestine” lost their war in 1948. Tough. That is how the world has worked since “time immemorial”. Possession is nine-tenth of the law. The Israelis took it, held it and improved it. If they can defend it, it’s theirs. And they took in all the Jews forcibly kicked out of Arab countries (where they had lived for centuries), whereas Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon basically used their fellow Arabs as a point of grievance instead of acting like civilized societies – and treated them as pariahs… Israel treats its Arab citizens a damn sight better than any Arab nation has treated the “Palestinians”.
After watching this disgusting spectacle for long enough, a pox on the Arabs for being idiots, every step of the way. And a pox on our western leftards who can’t get a grasp of reality.
Give the Israeli farmers an Uzi and a dozen mags of 9mm and let ’em defend their vinyards. I won’t cry over the death of leftards going there to destroy. The gene pool has needed cleansing for a very long time.
no, mississauga matt – and please don’t move into insults – I’m not making anything up.
The Palestinians were there for centuries, farming in that area. Do you think the area was empty?
The etymology of names is irrelevant. Because ‘Palestine’ ‘may’ be derived from the Hebrew for ‘invader’ does not mean that the Palestinians of the 18th and 19th c are ‘invaders’. Even the Roman calling of the area ‘Palaestina’ isn’t relevant.
There were many influxes of people – all different peoples and religions – all different ‘take-overs’ of the land and different governerships of the area over the years -Finally – The Turks, who ruled until the British- and dropped the name and sometimes used it. The British, who used the name. None of that is the point.
You are informing us that only the NAME matters. That you don’t live in Canada and can’t be Canadian unless it was NAMED as such ‘from the first man in the territory’. Oh?
My point is that what matters is the civic ownership or title to a land base. If someone has title, legitimate according to the governance of the region – then, it is their land! Why is that so hard for you to accept? The people, Palestinians, who were living there in 1948, had civic or legal title to their homes and farms. Why is that so hard for you to accept?
There were over 600,000 people in the area in 1948; they were farming – Again, you don’t understand a peasant sustenance economy in a near desert environment. The economy is based around soil type, temperature or climate, and water. That determines what plants can live or be grown; what animals can live or be grown. That area – without industrialization – has serious water problems. And thin dry soil. So- without industrialization – you live within a sustenance or peasant agriculturalism.
Whether the Palestinians were there first- as some historians say; or the Hebrews were there first – as other historians say -or other peoples were there first – as yet other historians say – and this well before the AD era and also excludes all the other peoples who were also in the region – is also, irrelevant. Again, Rights to Ownership aren’t defined by First Foot on the Ground.
Equally, I repeat – your anecdotal descriptions of subjective opinions written by European or American travellers to the region – people coming from an agricultural and/or industrial economy, and from a completely different ecological environment – substantiate nothing. Absolutely nothing. Other than their own ignorance of this different economic mode (peasant agriculture) and different ecology (near desert).
The only issue is – when someone has civic title to a house or farm – then, what do you do in the event of a desire for takeover? Don’t you compensate?
Or do you say – No compensation because 3,000 years ago, I say MY ancestors were here first.
Or – No compensation because I have a gun.
Or – No compensation because your ancestors were invaders.
Or – No compensation because God likes me more than you.
Or – No compensation because…
Perhaps I’m simple and even simplistic – but, I hold to the civic, legal definition of ownership. That is – if someone has legal title under a current governorship, then, takeover requires acknowledgment of that title – and compensation. period.
ET… the Jews won the war in 1948, 1967 & 1973. Time for the Arabs to move on. No one really gives a crap about compensation. War has winners and losers. The Arabs lost. Tough. Move on. Most people throughout history have lost “legal ownership” at some point due to war or other act of power by a state – they’ve moved on. What makes the Arabs so special? Why are they still sitting around in refugee camps 60 years after they lost their war? Because the other Arabs don’t give a flying damn about their brethren. Not their tribe, so they can croak… and blame the Jews for all that. Applying North American sensitivities to a tribal conflict is just ludicrous. Give your head a shake.
cincinnatus – your tale of your people having been driven out of East Prussia isn’t relevant. My ancestors were driven out of Russia and Lithuania. That doesn’t make it just or right.
The Jews were driven out of many countries; the Christians were driven out; various ethnic groups were driven out. So? Does that make it right?
The name ‘Palestine’ is a euphamism. It’s been around for about 4,000 years. However, I fully agree – the arab nations have mistreated the Palestinians from day one; they have viewed tham, always, as ignorant peasants. That doesn’t mean that we have to agree with them.
Doug – since I am not a troll – then, I am presuming that your list doesn’t refer to me. However, a few things: you are confusing the topic.
I, for one, am not talking about the Arab nations nor about Islamic fascism. Yet most of your points refer to the Arab nations and Islamic fascism. I’m only talking about Palestine and the occupation, the settlements and the two-state solution. That has nothing to do with the Arab nations – except that they have always worked AGAINST a Palestinian state – and nothing to do with Islamic fascism.
Kindly note that Palestine is not ‘blessed with land and oil’. The Gaza strip is virtually a useless desert – ecologically. The only solution there is massive industrialization providing services – ie – electronic services. The West Bank is better – its land requires, of course, irrigation for farming.
I think you are making an error to merge ‘Arabs’ and Palestinians. Again, the Arab states are against a Palestinian state; they don’t want an arab democracy in their midst! And again, they have great contempt for Palestinians. The behaviour of the Arab States to Jews and Christians is not the issue here – which is only about Palestinian rights to ownership of land.
Your term ‘Koranimals’ is beneath contempt. Please don’t merge the Palestinian situation with Islamic fascism. That’s entirely different and has a different cause – and different solution.
Have any of you defenders of the Arab cause ever been to the ME? With the exception of the tin pot’s and mad mullah’s palaces, the place is generally one large slum. There is only one group of people responsible for the state of the average Arab. ARABS!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the problem with any discussion about any event, no matter how small and local, that takes place in Israel or surrounding areas. The discussion conflates well beyond the originating issue.
Two points, one long since lost in this discussion about the origins of ownership, and another not yet made:
1. Dolev is one of the settlements located in the West Bank, not Israel proper, and has been considered and discussed by the Israelis as one of the settlements that may be “returned”, if I’m not mistaken. That may be relevant or irrelevant but it is some context that has been ignored.
2. More importantly, regardless of ownership and rights to the land, this (and similar actions going the other way) is an intolerable act of destruction that can only make things worse. What idiots these people are or worse to think that causing individual families to suffer hardships of destroyed crops or other living sustenance is going to lead to peace or prosperity.
A nation can only survive and prosper if it is rooted in a code of enforced laws. A “people” that cannot grasp that fact will never establish a sustainable nation, let alone a prosperous one. All the worse for the enforcers of law to be participating (although the article does note that they were doing as much calming and stoppeing as aiding and abetting).
Which leads to another side point I had:
“the Jews won the war in 1948, 1967 & 1973. Time for the Arabs to move on. No one really gives a crap about compensation. War has winners and losers. The Arabs lost. Tough. Move on. Most people throughout history have lost “legal ownership” at some point due to war or other act of power by a state – they’ve moved on. “
This is an appalling and self-defeating concept. In fact, it is the very notion that “might is right” which fuels the fires of discord. If land use and ownership is to be settled based on might, instead of civic laws, then what is to stop the losers from forever persisting in their fight. If might is right, then logically it just for the losers to try again and see if they are now the mightier. And indeed to keep trying until they are mightier.
Israel’s longterm survival, I believe, is of significant interest to the whole world. But it’s longterm survival is constantly in jeopardy if its rationale for continuing to exist is simply that it is, right now, stronger than it’s opponents.
A cure for socialism:
http://tinyurl.com/ywm5oq
The Palestinian pawn-people, once led by corrupt, evil and AIDS-addled Arafat, should consider moving. Most people, after sitting in stinking refugee camps for 60 years, would want to go to greener pastures. Their only contribution to civilization has been perfecting how to kill civilians. It’s gotta tell you something when even fellow Muslim states don’t want them.
Ted, hypocritical as all lefties, suggests that we should return South Vietnam, if I understood his point correctly.
>> “if I understood his point correctly”
You obiously didn’t Aaron.
>> “we should return South Vietnam”
You obviously didn’t understand what happened there, either.
Take heart ET. Not everyone who regularly reads this blog is an ignorant knuckle dragger who doesn’t understand the difference between political control of a geographic area and personal ownership of property. Hell, I think that, as Conservatives, property rights should be pretty damned important to us.
Being pro-Israel isn’t justification for approving of the theft and/or destruction of private property by religious nut cases who do it because they know that they can get away with it. Devout Muslims show their devotion by blowing up Jewish school children. Devout Jews (West Bank “settlers”) show theirs by robbing and oppressing Palestinian Arabs. I guess that the “settlers” (a.k.a. “thieves”) are more practical.
BTW, there are plenty of Israelis who would agree wholeheartedly with your analysis!
Cincinnatus “The gene pool has needed cleansing for a very long time.”
Scratch a wingnutter and you’ll find a frustrated Nazi wannabee.
Cincinnatus “The gene pool has needed cleansing for a very long time.”
Scratch a wingnutters and you’ll often find a frustrated Nazi wannabee.
Show me a rightwinger, and I’ll show you someone who is most likely a simple-minded twit.
Show me a left winger, and I’ll show you a trough wallowing, arts educated slack ass who could not earn his way in the real world without a gov’t handout.
lmao
South Vietnam is the place where America lost the war against North Vietnam communist regime, backed by Khruschev’s military advisers and supplies. According to your analysis, Ted, America should have never stopped the war even when it was lost. Your words are clear and unwillingness to admit that is spectacular. You can trick Canadian unestablished minds, but I lived under the communist regime in the former USSR and it’s pretty damn hard to convince me that USA was not in war against ‘Nam commies – I heard propaganda on radio.
“Show me a rightwinger, and I’ll show you someone who is most likely a simple-minded twit.”
Again Leftard hubris mistakes the politics of non-intrusive civility as being “backward”.
Show me a dogmatic leftoid and I’ll show you someone suffering from an organic genetic mental disorder called social megalomania…
….the left is afflicted with a personality disorder where they feel they are superior to those who do not share their fallacious dogmatism and are sick enough to believe they have been given some divine right to reshape society in their image…with or without society’s consent…they call this “activism”…prior to leftist cleansing of the English language we called this belligerent incivility.
This genetic mental disorder of the left has cost 300 million lives in the 20th century and it’s still racking up the body count as millions continue to be sacrificed on the political alter of leftist dogmatism.
By contrast:
the well adjusted and those secure in their individuality tend to go to right of center constituencies because these represent the political equivalent of the civil majority’s core ethic: that being; that they just wish to be left alone and to leave others alone to make their own personal choices…government and “social activists” do not know what is best for every individual’s needs…and we do not wish to be used as pawns in some leftoid social experiment using the state as a tool to force uniformity and compliance to dystopian ideas.
Leftism is a mental disorder.