Reporting from Londonistan;
A Kurdish woman was brutally raped, stamped on and strangled by members of her family and their friends in an “honor killing” carried out at her London home because she had fallen in love with the wrong man.
Banaz Mahmod, 20, was subjected to the 2-1/2 hour ordeal before she was garroted with a bootlace. Her body was stuffed into a suitcase and taken about 100 miles to Birmingham where it was buried in the back garden of a house.
If you say “Timothy McVeigh” three times and throw a handful of ammonium nitrate over your left shoulder, you can make this go away.
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SDA Flashback: A Sunday Telegraph investigation has established that honour killings are increasing rapidly in Britain. Home Office statistics suggest that there are 12 such murders each year. However, according to research, the true figure is much higher. At a conference in Southampton last week, police chiefs revealed that they are re-examining 2,000 deaths and-murders between 1996 and 2006 to establish whether they involve honour killings. So far, 19 have now been found to be honour killings. A further 20 involved some element of “honour violence”.
This is just another example of an uncivilized culture that has failed to integrate with Western society. The time has come for the Western world to demand that its immigrants adapt to our culture and our standards instead of the other was around.
What was done to that woman was very shameful and an absolute outrage. It is my hope that her family will be severely punished under the full extent of the law.
this wouldn’t have anything to do with the religion of peace and moderate muslims? /
What category of Muslim would these wretches be?
What the hell is “moderate”, as opposed to what?
Anyone have a definition of the degrees of Muslim-ism?
It appears it’s anything goes, from torture and terror to murder, all in the name of the Muslim religion and it’s varying degrees.
One problem, we allow them to live among us. That’s got to be dealt with. Our laws MUST trump the Islamic/Muslim religion.
Liz J: If you hold the view that “torture and terror and murder” are inseparable aspects of Muslim culture, and if you don’t believe that such a thing as “moderate Islam” exists, then what are we doing in Afghanistan? How do you explain the existence of, say, Turkey or Indonesia?
Also, in this particular case, British laws DID trump “the Islamic/Muslim religion.”
Again, in light of the Toronto shooting, the anti-gun people try to convince us that most canadians want to ban all guns:
http://www.thestar.com/#
Let’s show them they are wrong. Vote! Poll is midway down the front page to the left
Banning worthless immigrants and refugees… now that WILL make Canada safter.
I was willing to accept that there were moderate Muslims. Then I read this 1000 year timeline on the religion.
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Terrorism_Timeline.Islam
Now I am sure that “Muslims are the who, terrorism is the how, and Islam is the why”.
In my view, our society must stop fighting terrorism, and start fighting the Muslim faith. First step would start calling the religion a handbook for violence. Muhammed created this religion to advance his drive for power, inciting his followers to kill everyone who stood between him and his pedophilia.
Any muslim who follows the Koran is violent, dormant or otherwise.
Excuse me, but all you followers of the Koran can f**k off.
Kate, if the HRC contacts you, please give them my email address.
“”moderate Islam” exists”
A’dam, moderate don’t follow the Koran. Turkey is under seige by followers of the Koran. Narrowly missed going full Sharia recently.
Its nice to have you drop by consistently though. Reminds me how corrupting “progressive” religion is. Frankly, we shouldn’t be killing, ahem, insurgents in Afganistan. We should be round up everyone who pray’s on a carpet 5 times a day and drop them of in Saudi Arabia.
Drop you off there too. You’d have a perforated colon in about 15 minutes.
“this wouldn’t have anything to do with the religion of peace and moderate muslims? “
Don’t shoot the messenger:
“Honour killings have been continually mistaken to be a practice encouraged by Islam; this is due to the fact that honour killings are often perpetrated in Muslim-majority areas, especially in countries of the Indian subcontinent and the Middle East. However the Qur’an and the Hadith mention nothing about honour killings, and such murders are almost always associated with pre-Islamic cultural patterns in the societies which condone them. For example, while honour killing is widespread among rural Muslim tribes in Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, and various Arab countries, it is virtually unknown in the Muslim communities of Malaysia and Indonesia.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_killing
We females have much to fear from the hatered towards females that is preached from the koran.
And once again the silence of the feminist groups is deafining.
A**dam, I do not pretend to know anything about the degrees of the Muslim religion, ‘have no idea what constitutes a “moderate” Muslim and have some doubt if the practitioners are even sure.
We have reason to be concerned. Our laws kick in after the fact, they are not preventative when people are driven by an extreme force in the name of religion.
Tend to agree with geothermal: “Muslims are the who, terrorism is the how, and Islam is the why”,
sure looks that way.
[deleted. – ED]
It is pretty apparent that the muslim females stand in line to be slaughtered by their muslim males, it is condoned by the female muslims, and it will take a long time to teach them this is wrong.
You can take a puppy and kick it across the floor from day one, and it will always come back to you. Such is the conditioning of the female muslim.
There has to be something we can do as non-muslims to help put a stop to this. We could use the lefties’ tactics of forcing silence, and have the koran classified as hate literature.
Geothermal: In my view, our society must stop fighting terrorism, and start fighting the Muslim faith.
Happily, very few people share your view — not the Harper, Blair, Howard, or Bush administrations; not the world’s intelligence community; not the military forces in Iraq & Afghanistan; not the freelance milbloggers covering those campaigns; and not the vast majority of your fellow Canadians.
moderate [sic] don’t follow the Koran.
That would be wishful thinking on your part. As with any ideology, spiritual or secular, moderates read their respective texts as much as extremists do — they just interpret and apply it differently.
Seriously, if it’s Islam itself that’s the problem, and all Koran-reading Muslims are “violent, dormant or otherwise,” then what’s the solution in Afghanistan? Ban the practice of Islam? Burn all copies of the Koran? Does that state of “victory” sound even remotely achievable to you?
The scary thing about Britain (and Canada!!!) A’dam is that if this girl had managed to fend off the attack by using a weapon, say a handgun, chances are she’d be in jail right now. Which would be preferable to being stomped to death I’m sure, but you get my drift.
Civil justice doesn’t prevent crimes, it delivers retribution. It is the surety and severity of retribution that gives would-be offenders pause. It’s my considered opinion that hanging all the participants in this atrocity would have a salutary effect on British society, but that comes with its own set of problems.
I don’t subscribe to the “women as victims of violence” thing, nor does the attitude of Islam toward women bother me, ugly though it may be. Crime is crime, justice is served or not.
What bothers me is Nanny Staters making allowances for “cultural differences” in applying the law, and elitists who think it reasonable to deny practical self defense to girls like this.
When you are a 20 year old female who weighs maybe 120lbs soaking wet, practical self defense is a Walther PPK with a .38 Airweight revolver for your New Your reload. Kung fu alone ain’t going to get it done.
A few would-be honor killers with sucking chest wounds would also prove salutary to British society, IMHO. Teach your girlies to shoot, my friends.
As for the rest of you lot, whatever happened to the “free country” concept? You wanna start in on the Sikhs and the Hindus too? No white boy ever killed his cheatin’ girlfriend?
What are you, Lefties? Get a grip, people!
White guys kill their cheatin’ girlfriends, but you usually don’t have the religious cults they belong to slapping them on the back and congratulating them for it. That is the difference.
Phantom. Have to agree with you on the Walther.
White boy’s who kill there girlfriend were not intructed in violence by their religion. There’s the difference.
“nor does the attitude of Islam toward women bother me, ugly though it may be”
Revealing.
Honey Pot, I’m the first one to say that Muslims don’t treat women right. I’ve said it here many a time. When they come to Canada they need to be made to understand that women are equals here, and we aren’t going to put up with anything less. You beat your wife/daughter, you go to jail.
That being understood, its a free country. Meaning women are free to be just as Muslim as they want, if they want. If they want to be like Hirsi Ali they get more kudos from me, but not everybody wants to do that. In a free country, people are free to make choices I consider stupid.
Freedom of choice and equality of opportunity is where its at, not freedom to conform and equality of outcome. That’s the Lefty thing.
Phantom, I think you are missing the point that there is no choice for a muslim female. It isn’t even in their vocabulary. If they get out of line, they get the shit kicked out of them or killed. That wouldn’t be considered their choice, but islam’s choice.
The real battle is between reform-minded moderate Muslims and Wahhabi-funded radicals. The Quran mentions nothing about honour killings. It is a cultural practice that pre-dates Islam.
Rather than calling for immigration bans or world war on Islam we should be doing everything we can to support the moderates in their efforts to reform and modernize their religion.
andrew, for heaven’s sake, please move out of the undergraduate mode of slavish devotion to a textual source. What is written in a text is not necessarily The Truth. Your constant ‘shows’ of textual references doesn’t mean that you have supplied us with facts, with truth – just with a text.
Real research requires searching through multiple and contradictory secondary sites (and Wiki is a secondary site) to find different conclusions and then, going to the primary sites (data bases) to see what has actually happened. And then, using your brain to analyze the whole. All you do is inundate us with quotes from secondary sources. That’s useless.
If those beliefs were ‘pre-Islam’, then why hasn’t Islam outlawed them? Hmmm? Those beliefs are tribal beliefs and Islam, as an ideology, is a tribal system. That’s why Islamic authorities haven’t outlawed them. Think, don’t just copy words from books.
wlmr – your Muslim law sounds exactly like a Third Reich Law against Jews and other ‘aliens’.
Reforming Islam is a requirement and that has to be done by Islam itself. The West has to reject Islamic fundamentalism, not silently, but openly in discussion, in its laws, in not accomodating fundamentalism.
But, setting up a Ban All Muslims action won’t help reform Islam; instead, it will greatly assist Islamic fascism in obtaining total control over all Muslims.
Belisarius, if you could find a moderate muslim to speak up. It appears that half the muslims in Canada are terrorist supporters, and the other half are cowards. What do you do with that?
Oh no, not Wikipedia again? Haven’t we been over this?
And good answer, ET. If honour killings and FGM pre-date Islam, why hasn’t Islam outlawed them? They’ve had 1400 years to do so.
Geothermal, allow me to rephrase. I meant, people can believe what they like so long as they keep their hands to themselves. In cases like this when they don’t, I’d like it if their intended victims can shoot back.
Every person is responsible for their own life and their own actions. Being a victim is a choice, even in Gun Control Land. If society gave a damn about these kids though, choosing not to be a victim would be a hell of a lot easier.
As Rob C. said earlier, the silence of the Feminists is deafening.
Note to everyone
While I appreciate this is a story that angers people, please take your more extreme/stupid comments elsewhere.
Sorry Kate. I lost it. Still, if HRC calls please direct them to me.
Can anyone provide a link to the original honour killing story ?
Honey Pot, there’s always a choice. Even if your only choice is to die fighting, you can choose it. Sometimes, and all your choices are bad ones. Be a victim or go to jail is a choice I’d prefer women didn’t have to make, but right now they do.
Violence Against Women is one of those much beloved Lefty causes where there’s lots of blame slung around, plenty of approbation and damn little practical measures taken.
Some men like to beat up women. Some are Muslim, some aren’t. As a practical matter it makes absolutely no difference. Some women put up with getting beaten, some die from it. Some are Muslim, some are not. Again, it makes no practical difference. The internal motivations are irrelevant, its the -action- that needs to be addressed.
As a society, if we are serious about women being equal to men we need to get off this “violence against women” as if it were a special case. Violence is violence. Men are expected to defend themselves in this country, if women want to be -equal- then they need to step up to the plate.
The proper course for government is to get the hell out of the way and let them do it, not neuter men and wrap women in cotton so they won’t get bumped.
Bottom line, Islam is not a problem unless we make it one by giving Muslims a free pass in the name of Multi Culturalism. If wife beaters get shot by their wives it won’t be a problem for long, will it?
Teach your daughters to shoot. Get them to tell their friends. Stand tall and don’t take any crap. This is the way of freedom.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2371243120070723?src=072307_1005_TOPSTORY_mission_impossible
Here is a link, it was carried out in the land of lost, but still an honor killing.
The killers are more than likely waiting at Pearson airport to be welcomed in by their warm and wonderful cousins and Taliban Jack.
Harper and Bush don’t speak for me on the issue. Geothermal does.
“Happily, very few people share your view — not the Harper, Blair, Howard, or Bush administrations; not the world’s intelligence community; not the military forces in Iraq & Afghanistan; ”
Exactly A’dam. All except Howard of course. You might want to keep read some news between your bowl of froot loops and Mommies kiss goodnight.
[deleted – profanity. Your posts here are crossing the line. Tone it down or leave. ED]
Such killings are occasionally seen in the Arab and Muslim world.-reuters
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I am not sure why this strikes me funny, but it does. I know the reporter has to be a lefty trying to justify the muder of these young girls. It is just the way they fluff off the cruel and barbaric nature of the islam.
Come on Honey Pot, let’s be reasonable shall we? Kids need the protection provided by their parents and by society generally. We are talking adults here.
The specter of honour killing in Western nations poses a challenge — arguably a real threat — to the liberal constructs of multiculturalism, loose immigration, liberal tolerance and political correctness. This one issue topples practically every liberal-left feel-goodism about Islam and its place in Western democracy and draws into question the delineation of moderate v. radical Muslims. That is why it is hardly given the space or time it should in the media. This is also why the blogosphere is so important.
I am sure that is exactly what it is Mark. The left are so gung-ho on this multiculturism bullshit that they are willing to support the death cult of islam, at any cost. I think they were counting on the muslims being introduced to a democracy, and that would somehow nudge them into changing their barbaric behaviour to resemble something close to civility. They have thought wrong.
Perhaps I have been slightly unclear about the age thing. Legaly adult is 18. Being an old guy I call them kids.
Properly I should be saying children vs. adults. By age 18 a woman can defend herself against all threats, if properly trained. There’s plenty of them in Iraq right now with the US Army, if they can kill fundy lunatics so can Muslim women.
I have been musing on progressives and their defense of Islam, the Avi interview, the silence of feminists on Muslim misogyny.
It seems to me that the progressives view victims as tools to further their agendas. Once like they are no longer useful they are discarded and replaced by new victims. If previous victims dare become advocates for non politically correct change, like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, then they are despised as traitors. Any victim, like Muslim women, that can not be blamed on capitalism, Christianity or the US is simply ignored. Otherwise, feminists should be protesting any concessions to a religion that so violently rejects gender equality. In any case, progressives seem to care very little for an actual victim’s welfare.
If progressives posting here have an alternative theory then I would welcome an explanation of this contradiction.
Phatom, I know they can. I have two nieces in the theater of war, and two nephews.
The problem isn’t that there aren’t moderate Muslims. There are. We have nearly a million living in Canada. The problem is that they are being silenced by fear. Salafist Wahhabism, funded by Saudi Arabia, has propagated an extreme form of Islam and terror worldwide. While I agree that Islam has to reform itself, it’s in our own best interest to help the moderates by choking off this funding and banning the extreme groups/mosques.
For moderate Muslims who are not afraid to speak out, check out Reza Aslan and Irshad Manji (for starters).
While it’s easy to look at the bad, don’t forget about the brave Muslims fighting in the Iraqi army/police for a better country. Or our allies in Afghanistan.
Hope you’re not holding your breath LynnH, its going to be a looooong wait. You’ll have noticed you don’t see to many “progressives” raging on about protecting children from pedophiles either. Same problem.
A’dam: Let me give you a quick lesson in theology. Much of the OT was written for and about a specific people (Israel) during a specific time. With the possible exception of the 10 commandments, very few laws apply to Christianity. For example: can you name one Christian church which stones homosexuals or adulterers? Jesus did not even condemn, let alone stone the woman taken in adultery, though He called it a sin.
Christians are, by definition, followers of Christ. I know that theologians and church leaders can get fanatical. Even Luther and Calvin did things that cannot be justified on the basis of the Bible. I know about Crusades and the Inquisition, so you don’t need to go there. To judge the church on the basis of McVeigh is ridiculous.
Belisarius, there is a million of them, and we might all be able to name three who have came out and said the death cult of islam needs to be tweaked to resemble something the world can tolerate? I don’t believe they are scared. I believe there is a whack of muslims living in Canada who would like nothing more than to see all Jews and infidels dead, or converted to islam.
Honey Pot, I’m sorry to hear your nieces and nephews are in harm’s way. I hope they return to you well and victorious.
But don’t give in to the hate. Its evil men and evil deeds we fight, not a whole religion. Seek out the evil and destroy it for sure, but find the good and praise it as well. Otherwise we become what we fight.
That’s no multi-culti malarkey either, that’s the real deal.
“At Least She’ll Be Spared That Interview* With Avi Lewis” LOL 🙂
Another gem Kate.
Muslim men get away with honor killings in their native lands because it is an accepted form of justice towards women. If Muslim men are killing Muslim women in Britain and elsewhere, the law of the land should find them guilty of murder and throw away the key.
What I don’t understand is how a father, brother, mother, sister, husband, etc. can condone honor killings and in the same breathe state that they feel any true love for their family members.
I don’t think training women to protect themselves will be enough because these Muslim dudes will just come at a woman in greater numbers; the only way for a Muslim woman to protect herself is to pack a gun and the thought of Muslim women packing hand guns under their burkas doesn’t really turn my crank either.
We have Muslims in my city who profess to hate Canada, so why are they here? I’m afraid it has nothing to do with being ‘moderate’ Muslims; they are here for an entirely different purpose and that purpose is what we all fear and some of us know to be true.
Herman: To judge the church on the basis of McVeigh is ridiculous.
Yeah, I know, Herman. That was precisely my point, which is why I didn’t judge the church on the basis on McVeigh. What I’m trying to say is that others should also refrain from judging the whole of Islam on the basis on the Islamist terrorists.
One might reply to this with, “Well, there are a lot more Islamist terrorists than McVeighs.” True, but irrelevant. After all, there are a lot more non-violent practising Muslims than Islamist terrorists. The whole claim that “the surge is working” assumes that moderates exist, and in vastly greater proportion to the extremists.
One might also reply to this with, “Well, the Koran literally calls for violence.” Maybe one’s particular take on it. Think of it this way:
(1) Terrorists read the Koran and see in it only instructions for them to enslave women and kill infidels.
(2) Someone who doesn’t really like Muslims reads the Koran and sees in it only instructions for Muslims to enslave women and kill infidels.
(3) Moderate Muslims read the Koran and see in it only personal spiritual guidance.
There are always different readers, and hence different interpretations.