Fed up with being part of a group that cuts off a person’s face with piano wire to teach others a lesson, dozens of low-level members of al-Qaeda in Iraq are daring to become informants for the US military in a hostile Baghdad neighbourhood.
The ground-breaking move in Doura is part of a wider trend that has started in other al-Qaeda hotspots across the country and in which Sunni insurgent groups and tribal sheikhs have stood together with the coalition against the extremist movement.
[…]
The increased presence of US forces in Doura, however, is encouraging insiders to overcome their fear and divulge what they know. Convoys of US soldiers are working the rubble-strewn streets day and night, knocking on doors, speaking to locals and following up leads on possible insurgent hideouts.
“People in al-Qaeda come to us and give us information,” said Lieutenant Scott Flanigan, as he drove past a line of fruit and vegetable stalls near a shabby shopping street in Doura, where people were buying bread and other groceries.
The informants were not seeking an amnesty for crimes that they had committed. “They just do not want to be killed,” Lieutenant Flanigan said.
The guy’s wielding piano wire are deeply misunderstood, aren’t they A’dam.
Point being, Geothermal, even fruitbat Muslim fundies think the piano wire guys need to go down, while A’dam’s buddies in the “peace” movement are happy to let them win if it means George Chimpybushitler and the Repugnicans get beat.
I can’t decide who’s worse.
Dammit, I could use that piano wire. I broke my G-string a few days ago. 🙂
Pahantom: Maybe the CIA, MI6 and KGB are on a recruiting drive and they see the “piano wire guys” as already indoctrinated all they have to do is turn them to doing this for mercinary motives.
“Good old police work” comes to mind.
A’dam would you care to comment on the structural discrimination inherent to piano manufacture which predisposes certain cultures to acts of depraved mutilation & murder?
Clearly they learned it from the CIA in previous training….or when they were held by the Mossad.
It is everyone else’s fault
sarc/off
Tides a turnin’. Well done troops and those who support them and the mission!
Well, it’s probably “living in hope” to say the tide’s turning but for a long time now I’ve been wondering if the Muslim Brotherhood/al-Queda would lose their appeal if they actualy got to run a country. After all, Bolshevism lost its appeal for the Russian peasants when they saw it up close and personal, as in, “Sorry, no land for you” just forced collectivization. “Down with the Bolsheviks … down with the Jews” they shouted.
And you have to admit to secretly hoping some of those young UK nutters who claim to want sharia law could get the chance to be up close and personal with that. The tune would change, if not the tide.
But I remain very deeply skeptical that any tide has turned as such. The Middle East, I’m afraid, is a gigantic graveyard for failed hopes and dreams and ruined political careers.
Their getting tired of seeing too many of their loved ones die for nothing more then a bunch of religious fanatics and PIONO WIRE KILLS BAN PIONO WIRE
[Sigh]. Sure, geothermal, go right ahead and assume that I support people who cut off other people’s faces with piano wire. Bravo. Very clever.
Now, had you read past the first 17 words of the article, you might have noted the following assesment by the good Lieutenant-Colonel: “A key factor is that local people and members of al-Qaeda itself have become sickened by the violence and are starting to rebel. The people have got to deny them sanctuary and that is exactly what is happening.”
Huh. Does that mean that those “local people” — Muslims, I imagine — are capable of being moderate and non-violent? But wait, that wouldn’t quite jive with your theory that all followers of Islam are necessarily violent, would it, geo? Back to the drawing board for you…
Blazingcatfur: A’dam would you care to comment on the structural discrimination inherent to piano manufacture which predisposes certain cultures to acts of depraved mutilation & murder?
Not really, at least not with you. Rest assured, though, that there are indeed useful structural-level perspectives on the causes of religious fundamentalism. I’d start to describe them myself, but because I’m a lefty peacenix, you’ll automatically discount everything I say on principle. Instead, I point you to the comments section of this earlier thread, where ET — who hates “lefties” more than you do — has this to say (July 23, 2007 3:26 PM):
There are several aspects of Islam to consider. The first is that it is not merely a religion but above all a social and political mode of life, a tribal sociopolitical mode. This is the ‘root cause’ of the emergence of Islamic fascism.
This and other structural analyses like it don’t comprise on their own a fully satisfactory explanation, but they do contribute to a more complete understanding of the problem, and its possible solutions.
Actually A’dam I agree with much of what ET has written. So there;)
But would you have agreed if I had written it? 😉
A’dam, I’d say the solution is fairly well in hand. You shoot them, and keep shooting them, and enlist the help of the locals in finding and shooting them until they are all gone.
Seems the locals are stepping up. Way to go Iraq!
“Tides a turnin’.”
For the Nth time.
Phantom, can you clarify whom you mean when you them “You shoot them…”? Some here would take “them” to mean “Muslims,” which would immediately raise the question of whom they then take “the locals” to be.
Which is why geothermal’s insistence that all Muslims are similarly violent makes no sense, and why it’s obvious that moderate Muslims and extremists are qualitatively different groups. Otherwise, one would be required to claim that the solution is to “shoot Muslims, and keep shooting Muslims, and enlist the help of Muslims in finding and shooting Muslims until Muslims are all gone.”
I must admit that as a Christian I am opposed to many of the posters here advocating the violent removal or banning of the practitioners of Islam. I take my lead from God the Son who when confronted by a crowd calling for the stoning of a woman caught in adultery told the crowd that the one in the crowd without sin could cast the first stone. I’m not without sin so I can not cast the first stone. Likewise when confronting the Muslim who is seeking after a false god named Allah. I’m not going to condemn him because I too have false gods that I pursue. As a Christian my task is to encourage the Atheist, Animist, Pagan, Muslim, Mormon, JW, Socialist, Nazi etc. (and yes even the Timothy McVeighs of this world) to seek after the true God. Seek after the God who Expresses His Will through His Word and gives us His Enabling Spirit to accomplish that task. The True God for Whom we all exist, through Whom we all exist and in Whom we all exist. There is enough violence in the world; let us who have the enablement help those in need that they too may receive that same enablement. Let those who lack the enablement humble themselves that they may indeed receive that Devine enablement.
Peace
A’dam, clearly the piano wire types and roasters of 11 year olds (didja catch that one? EEEEW!) are the targets needing removed, and CLEARLY even their fellow Al Queerda a-holes think so because they are helping soldiers of The Great Satan kill these pricks.
It is a shame that the DemocRats and the NDP seem determined to let the piano wire types win, at the very time when even their fellow jihadi zealots can’t stomach them.
Yes, Muslims are just people like everybody else blah blah blah. But you know, the Americans have been there quite a while and only now are these people waking up to the reality of the evil they have been supporting, or at least ignoring.
Because why? Because they’ve been living in the personal playground of one of history’s nastiest dictators for their whole lives, that’s why. They come to Canada and walk around in a culture shocked daze for a couple years before they get used to the idea of honest cops, free speech and houses with no bars on the windows.
What do you think is going to happen if us, the Brits and the Yankees pack up and piss off, taking our civilizing influence away with us?
“Which is why geothermal’s insistence that all Muslims are similarly violent makes no sense”
Conveniently skirting around my specific assertion that Piano wire behavior is the purview of those who follow the Muhammed’s instructions on healthy living.
Try again A’dam. Remember, those folks helping the good Lieutenant Colonel don’t want to have their faces ripped off. Its the religion, not the people.
Joe
the muslims follow a faults god?????
allah is basically the same god you worship, atleast from an atheist’s POV
Nice try GYM. There are very radical differences between Allah and Yahweh. Personally I feel sorry for all atheists having been one myself. As I explored the paucity of the philosophical mindset I came to realize the fullness of the foolishness of Christianity and that in that foolishness discovered the fullness of God and humanity. Since that time I have also seen the works of Yahweh being fulfilled in my life in ways that no one can fully explain except to call them miracles. Some time when it is more on topic I may expand on it a bit. Suffice it to say that there are no miracles from Allah just as there is no interceding with Allah. His will is pure and predetermined which is a sharp contrast with Yahweh whom St Augustine described in answered prayer as “able to change direction without changing course”.
“able to change direction without changing course”
What?! You mean He’s a Librano?
No Random Reader he can’t be a librano because they don’t have a course to begin with. When they change direction no one notices because there was no indication of direction at the outset.
Everyone (including you, Phantom): What do you think of this statement?
“In my view, our society must stop fighting terrorism, and start fighting the Muslim faith. First step would start calling the religion a handbook for violence. Muhammed created this religion to advance his drive for power, inciting his followers to kill everyone who stood between him and his pedophilia. Any muslim who follows the Koran is violent, dormant or otherwise. Excuse me, but all you followers of the Koran can f**k off.“ ~ Geothermal, July 23, 2007
Excessive? Justified? Not excessive enough?
I’m not without sin so I can not cast the first stone.
You don’t repent?
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,…
A’dam, the “Islamic troubles” exist for one reason (see if you concur with this statement):
All terrorists are Muslim, although not all Muslims are terrorists.
Now don’t go splitting hairs and saying, “Well, what about, oh, things like Air India, hmmm?” Not that I’m belittling the loss of 329 innocent lives back in 1985 but, frankly, that’s little more than 1 day’s work for the Islamic fascists in today’s world.
The crux of the matter is this; IF Muslims generally are in disagreement with the doings of the Wahhabist/Muslim faction of the Muslim faith, THEN they (THEY) had better differentiate themselves from such terrorist group(s)… and do so quickly and STRIDENTLY… whose terror is ALWAYS perpetrated in the name of their faith. Is it not?
The best possible support that we (100% of us) non-Muslims can give such protestors-of-terror-in-the-name-of-Islam is to come out and declare that, yes, Islamic fascism does exist and, no, we as a society will not apologize for our stance against it. What the heck is with the frivolous lawsuit launched by the “Flying Imams”?! What is wrong with us?!?! Are we nuts?
I read somewhere recently that, back in the 1940s, an American battalion of men of Japanese extraction was pulled together to fight for the U.S.A. against the Imperial Japanese army.
That’s one helluva “statement”, no?
I for one will listen ONLY to people like Wafa Sultan and Irshad Manji, Walid Shoebat and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (apostates, yes), Brigitte Gabriel and Salman Rushdie… I refuse to listen to Keith Olbermann or CBS; they have NOTHING substantive to contribute to actually understanding the problem. In fact, they make things considerably worse.
One last thing, A’dam…
It’s not up to ME to start the process of “differentiation” off. It is ENTIRELY up to those of the Muslim faith to work at making me, you, everybody else understand the differences between devout, peaceful Muslims and terrorist Muslims (a good way to put it, really).
Silence can be deafening.
If we pooh-pooh Islamic terrorism, why the hell should fearful Muslims stand up against it? Maybe we have to lend them some spine, eh? Which means standing up there and confronting the problem of Islamic terrorism, and not making excuses for it.
Joe B: The best possible support that we (100% of us) non-Muslims can give such protestors-of-terror-in-the-name-of-Islam is to come out and declare that, yes, Islamic fascism does exist and, no, we as a society will not apologize for our stance against it.
Fair enough, Joe B., except I would add one more thing that we non-Muslims should do, which is to also come out and vocally condemn those within our own “ranks” (Irwin Daisy and geothermal come to mind) who continue to insist that:
(a) there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim; and/or
(b) that the real war should be fought against the Muslim faith and not just Islamist terrorists.
I never once excused Islamic terrorism. My issue always was, and remains, those hate-blinded non-Muslims among us who insist on lumping “peaceful Muslims” and “terrorist Muslims” together into a single monolithic group, and in doing so, create a wholly avoidable disincentive for those same “peaceful Muslims” to stand up.
“a) there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim; and/or
(b) that the real war should be fought against the Muslim faith and not just Islamist terrorists..”
a) a moderate muslim would not follow the Koran and kill people. Nor apparently do vast numbers of moderate muslims speak up. Do you not find that disturbing A’dam. Doesn’t appear so.
b) Why not fight a war against a religion that takes its text seriously and actually propels its followers to kill, or condone killing. Common sense dictates that these so called moderates need a push to reinterpret their text and the dictates of its author(s)
Hmmmm.
“non-Muslims among us who blah blah create a wholly avoidable disincentive for those same “peaceful Muslims” to stand up.
Typical. Blame everyone but the muslims.
Yet it was Canadians of Lebanese extraction (I WILL NOT refer to them as “Lebanese-Canadians”… I’m not a “Czechoslovakian-Canadian”, although my mother was born there) who held a rally in Montreal last year in which Hezbollah was considerably more than a nominal participant. Not only that, Denis Coderre and Gilles Duceppe were both in attendance, and actually made speeches.
I contend that a natural distrust of Muslims didn’t just spontaneously awaken in the minds of Irwin Daisy and geothermal; they’ve had 6 years…no, more like 35 years (1972 Olympics)… to become attuned to what certainly seems to be Islam’s vocal “wing”. The problem is that they don’t seem to have ANY other voices in Islam against which to contrast what they see in the news ALL the time. I mentioned Irshad Manji and Wafa Sultan; not a whole lot of others come to mind. Why not?
You wrote (begin quote)”I never once excused Islamic terrorism. My issue always was, and remains, those hate-blinded non-Muslims among us who insist on lumping “peaceful Muslims” and “terrorist Muslims” together into a single monolithic group, and in doing so, create a wholly avoidable disincentive for those same “peaceful Muslims” to stand up.”(end quote)
Pardon me, but it seems so utterly obvious that you have gotten things the wrong way round. Many, many people are, to borrow your words, “lumping peaceful Muslims and terrorist Muslims together into a single monolithic group” because there is LITTLE to be heard from the peaceful Muslims. For example, what the HELL was the British government thinking when they didn’t expel the Iranian ambassador forthwith when Khomeini declared a fatwa (the first of how many?) against Salman Rushdie for writing a book? What the HELL was the MSM thinking when they were completely cowed into silence out of fear over the Muhammad cartoons? It was fear, period, and not “respect” of Islam that kept the MSM from not publishing those cartoons; you know it, I know it, they know it.
And you expect Muslims within the community of Islam to stand up?
OOPS…
“It was fear, period, and not “respect” of Islam that kept the MSM from publishing those cartoons”…
I already told you what I think A’dam. Go back and read my comments again.
And by the way you’re a wanker for re-posting that after Kate deleted it.
ol hoss:
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8.