“When a society imports large numbers of people from a culture that tolerates this kind of murder of the religiously deviant, or at very least from countries in which many people believe that if El-Mehdi really was a bad Muslim, then he deserved everything he got, then no one should be surprised when this kind of thing happens in the new land. No one dares address the idea that it is permissible to murder apostates in Islam. No one would dare require immigrants to renounce this idea. No one would dare require mosques to hold programs teaching against this idea, and other Sharia provisions, if they want to stay in the West. No, they’re imported wholesale, with no consideration of the ramifications…”
Have any of the usual Canadian English language MSM bothered to cover this story?
Our political correctness codes make is racist, xenophobic and bigoted to apply the rational measures implied in the post at Jihad Watch.
That’s part and parcel why the media haven’t touched this story with a ten foot pole, Louise.
Hmmm, usually if someone murdered somebody because they believed he was in league wth Satan then the first step would be a psych evaluation.
Can a belief in a religon that deep that you kill your brother for it mean you have a mental illness?
Re: Montreal man killed by his brother for being a bad Muslim
Mark Steyn mentions restaurants, too.
Here is the restaurant mentioned; Basha Restaurant. (Free adv for Basha!)
It’s not far from the notorious ristorante where the AdScam Librano$ dished out their brown cash-filled envelopes; Gagliano’s ristorante menu: $$$$$$$$$$
Maybe Mark Steyn will be writing a review of Basha Restaurant. Watch for it.
…-
The night of the murder, Najib Bellari, who currently studies administration in his native Morocco, returned to Basha on Sainte-Catherine Street, the restaurant where he works as a dishwasher. (more) …-
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1846720/posts
Write a Review for Basha Restaurant, 977 SAINTE-CATHERINE ST W …
Basha Restaurant . . MONTRÉAL near Sainte-Catherine RUE O and Mansfield RUE.
montrealrestaurantguide.ca/19985?ratethisgo=1
Posted by: maz2 at June 7, 2007 8:45 PM
Have any of the usual Canadian English language MSM bothered to cover this story?
Too busy reporting on Father William Swift of Toronto’s Holy Cross Catholic Church asking his female congregants to dress more modestly.
You see, Muslims can coerce their women – and by stealth ours – to cover up, and nothing is reported. But when a Toronto priest asks that women select something other than a see-through blouse when going to church, they’re all over it.
No one would dare mention the religious persuasion of the SOB who ran over his own daughter, her boyfriend and another kid, on purpose, and then danced in front of the cops when they arrested him.
Muslim, duh.
The police showed remarkable restraint by not crippling this goblin when they slapped the cuffs on him. I could never be a cop.
Interesting, wonder why the objection to the relationship….I believe the potential boyfriend was of Hindu background. That would explain it. Long history in the religon of peace of not being peaceful with any othe religon.
Interesting that muslim men can marry non muslim women but muslim women absolutely cannot marry non muslim men….Interesting study in monopoly creation. Of course when you get the women who were the wives of the group who were plotting to set off bombs in Toronto saying there husbands MUST perform some jihadist activity….well makes you wonder. Pretty creepy, guess it is the equivalent of saying, my husband better be get that promotion by the time he is 30 or I know I married a dud.
“Montreal man killed for being a “bad Muslim””
Hmmmmmmmm look at Paris then think this is Montreal in 10 years.
“Have any of the usual Canadian English language MSM bothered to cover this story?”
Please. It just happened and it was reported in the Quebec press yesterday. The continental divide between the English and French press means there is at least a couple of days delay.
But, as Stephen mentions up above, insane schizophrenics claim to be killing/doing violence in the name of god all of the time. So another schizophrenic claims he sees satan and kills, and this time it happens to be a muslim.
Some of you folk are wearing your tin foil hats on almost as tightly as the rabble crowd. Was Andrea Yates a sign that evangelical Christians were returning to their old ways? Of course not.
And there is widespread condemnation of apostate killings throughout the Muslim world so the basic premise of the argument here is old fashioned, raw fabrication.
So Ted: October 24, 2005 is “yesterday”??
Please share 10 links to this “widespread condemnation” of which you speak.
I love the way my mere presence on this blog always rouses the nation’s lefty cyber-men to confused, spittling outrage. One hour after the first post and we’ve got Ted, Minion AND the Sleep Viking.
Um, yeah, Kathy. It was yesterday that the Journal de Montreal reported on the murder of the Montreal man. Don’t mistake “spittling outrage” with “lightly noting the silliness of the post”.
And, with all due respect to your fine writing which you know I enjoy over at your own site as well, I drop by Kate’s site for her writing. You guest blogging just saves my wrist from an extra click.
Ted,
You’d have a point if this was isolated to the mentally ill. It isn’t. More over, you know it.
What about honour killings? That has happened here multiple times in the past few years and is likely to increase as muslims continue to assert their cultural confidence that comes with greater numbers.
The problem with the PC doctrine of anti-racism as a religion is not the concept that there is nothing genetically wrong with any group as we’re all basically equal at birth. The problem is the assumption that all CULTURES are equal that is the problem.
Not all CULTURES are equal. You can see this through migration patterns. No too many people migrate from the west to muslim countries, do they? Not too many people moving TO africa are they? These places aren’t crappy because of geography or resources. Both places have at least as much potential as anywhere else. The difference is that Africa and the Middle East have cultures that are corrupt, violent and tribal. Call it the trifecta of failure. These places will remain crappy until this changes.
Any more proof needed it’s a religion conducive to driving adherents to insanity?
It’s also a warning we had better not allow Sharia Law to ever be enacted. It would trump our laws, our Charter would ensure it.
Also, Kathy dear, I’m at work so I don’t have time to do a great and thorough job of doing your work for you, but it was pretty to debunk your mythmaking about “all muslims evil bad/never condemn murder of apostates” and you did only ask for 10 links.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/111/story_11121_1.html
http://www.al-islam.org/dilp_statement.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4660411.stm
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GH05Ak02.html
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2002044688_parvez24.html
http://www.glocaleye.org/binladen.htm
http://www.icnanj.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=65
http://www.snappingturtle.net/jmc/tmblog/archives/004591.html
http://www.freemuslims.org/news/article.php?article=527
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
http://www.mediamonitors.net/frankmafflitto12.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/debate/letters/article543603.ece
Blogs:
http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/aswads-murder-ignites-condemnation-all-over-the-province/
http://facts-not-fear.blogspot.com/2007/06/muslim-condemnation-of-terrorism-part-8.html
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/shhamza_sep11.htm
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/terrorism.htm
http://www.islamfortoday.com/murad01.htm
I know. I know. You only asked for 10 examples of condemnation and I’ve given you way way more. It was just so damn easy to find, I couldn’t help myself.
Kathy:
I just posted about 20 links, but it got caught in the filter. You’ll have to wait.
Warwick:
My objection is not to the condemnation of atrocious and barbaric acts by religious fundamentalists, like the “honour” killings you mention.
My objection is the habit of some, like “Jihad Watch”, is jumping on every single crime perpetrated by by a Muslim as an indication that Muslims are all terrorist supporting, islamofacsist murderers.
Aside from possible latent bigotry, it is simply unintelligent and prevents an alignment with the very huge population of secularist civilian Muslim allies, the ones who are on the frontlines of this battle against evil, the ones for example our good soldiers in Afghanistan work with daily and report back to us about.
There is a latent “leftiness” if you will or alternate PC about thumping our chests and saying we’re oh so much better as a culture instead of doing the hard work of actually trying to defeat the “islamofascists”.
It’s not just bigotted to think there is something inherently evil about Muslim faith. It’s stupid and counter-productive. Look at the struggle going on in Turkey right now with massive marches by Muslim secularists trying to hold off the radicals, in a somewhat same way as Europe struggled with conflicting faiths half a millenia ago.
There are no English language reporters in Montreal? There’s a “continental divide” on Ste Catherine East? (never saw it last time I was there)
Ted, you missed the guy who ran over his daughter with a minivan?
I thought you guys were all about women’s rights and all that stuff.
*
Ted… our allegedly racist culture is thoroughly horrified
by things that are seen as acceptable by most of the Muslim
world.
For example — just today…
“Gunmen in Iraq have attacked the house of a senior
police officer, killing his wife and 13 other people
and taking away three of his children.”
Where’s your “Religion of Peace” now?
*
I once shared an evening with a Muslim in Bombay. He informed me quite seriously that if his wife or daughter were caught in a sexual transgression, he would kill them.
He was not deranged. Maybe he was just engaging in Muslim “boasting”.
Anyway, if incoming peoples can’t bring in cultures that actually differ in fundamental ways from ours, what’s the point of professing multiculturalism?
Honour killings put real multi in multicultural, and add to the multicultural mosaic that Liberals have taught us to love.
It’s not just bigotted to think there is something inherently evil about Muslim faith. It’s stupid and counter-productive.
OK, setting aside the small fact the Islam truly is evil, is it “bigoted/stupid/counter-productive” to identify anything as evil? If evil now just a word that can’t be attached to anything?
Ted of course is himself bigoted because he’s gives Islam a pass for 1,400 years of depravity. The evidence is all around but Ted buries his head in the sand.
I’ve been warning Canadians to not accept multiculturalism ever since that P.O.S. Trudeau dumped it on us.
Of course I have been called many names, but defender of Canadian culture was not one of them.
Now we don’t have a culture at all. We have a bunch of whacks running around getting away with murder right at at time when going to a Canada is no different than going to Alice’s Restaurant served by aging John Lennon style hippies with law degrees.
The rest of us are in … what is that over used work kids like so much … oh ya … awe! Ya that’s it Canada is Awesome eh?
Right, Matt. Because I’ve been such a defender of Muslim extremism in the past:
canadiancerberus.blogspot.com/2005/07/carrots-sticks.html
canadiancerberus.blogspot.com/2005/07/roots-of-islamic-terrorism.html
I frankly don’t care about what was happening 1400 years ago in the Muslim religion. I care about what is happening right now.
I don’t care about thumping my chest and saying I’m so superior to everyone else. I care about getting some results right now.
I also don’t care about making ourselves politically correct and pure, or about some groups sensitivity about us calling individuals and organizations within that group evil.
I care about getting a clear and real picture of the enemy because that is the way you figure out who needs to be killed and who needs to be helped.
Some others don’t care much about that.
Ask El-Medhi Bellari the following questions, if you could:
“In the name of what god of death have they killed you? In the name of which paganism have they crucified you?*”
His answer will be:
Allah-Mohammed; Mohammedanism, aka Islam.
…-
*A Muslim Friend’s Letter to Slain Father Ragheed (Tissue Alert!)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1846712/posts
I frankly don’t care about what was happening 1400 years ago in the Muslim religion.
But that is central to the religion as it is practiced to this day. The words laid down then are the word of God, and as such cannot be ignored, cannot be mitigated, cannot be changed, cannot be enlightened.
Going to play that silly game of “quoting passages the importance of which I have absolutely no idea but it makes the other side look bad so I’ll do it anyway”, Matt?
How about:
“Whosoever kills a human being for other than manslaughter or mischief in the land, it shall be as if he has killed all humankind, and whosoever saves the life of one, it shall be as if he has saved the life of all humankind.” (Chapter 5, Verse 32)
Do you want someone to follow up with all the quotes from the Bible asking for the killing of non-believers or showing that Jesus was no “Prince of Peace” to show that, at its heart 2000 years ago, Christianity is no better and that since those words are the word of God, and as such cnnot be ignored, cannot be mitigated, cannot be changed, cannot be enlightened?
Then someone will say “but Christian culture has changed and doesn’t feel the need to follow that” or “you’ve taken those passages out of context”, excuses that only go one way I guess.
Not only is that more than a little boring as it has been done to death, not only is it off topic, but it’s just more of the self-righteous, holier than thou, chest thumping that may make you feel better and superior but doesn’t produce any results, doesn’t defeat terrorism, doesn’t stop extreme fundamentalist Muslims from asserting their very wrong interpretation of what ancient texts are gods word on the vast majority of Muslims who disagree.
Ted, your citations merely prove my point:
People don’t have to have a “widespread discussion” about a topic unless it is an urgent, recurring problem to begin with! Why should people need “widespread discussions” about matters of basic decency and morality?? What is there to discuss?
For every Andrea Yates, there are untold numbers of Muslims killing in the name of Allah. Andrea Yates is universally dispised, while Muslim murderers are often hailed as heroes.
You may find statements about the differences between Christian and Islamic scriptural exegesis tiresome but they haven’t trickled down to the average person, so we have to keep emphasizing them.
Muslims simply don’t view their holy book the way we do. They don’t accept the notion of “context” for one thing. Even Christian literalists who believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, for all their frequent and embarrassing public wackiness, didn’t take contracts out on, say, the Monty Python gang when Life of Brian came out, or would likely try to kill me were I to flush a Bible down a toilet.
As you know, there ARE Muslims out there trying to modernize the Muslim view of the Koran, like Irshad Manji, but they are encountering great resistance. And again, they may be trying to square a circle to begin with because as I say, the Bible and the Koran are not understood in the same way.
“Muslims simply don’t view their holy book the way we do. They don’t accept the notion of “context” for one thing.”
What Muslims, Kathy? Not any that I know. Not the millions and millions of Muslims fighting off fundamentalism in Turkey or Egypt or Jordan, among other places.
“Even Christian literalists who believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, for all their frequent and embarrassing public wackiness, didn’t take contracts out on, say, the Monty Python gang when Life of Brian came out, or would likely try to kill me were I to flush a Bible down a toilet.”
You are comparing apples to… well, apple pie. It wasn’t too long ago we were jailing people for blaspheme. And it wasn’t too too long ago before that we were hanging and burning those of different faiths.
Then two things happened starting about 200-300 years ago: we realized that by killing those of different faiths we were betraying the fundamentals of our own faith AND we realized that the old agrarian world was giving way to an urban industrial world and we needed to relate to each other as individuals so let’s abide by a concept of individual rights and liberties to offset religious groupthink.
This battle that so many here argue is a war of Muslims vs. Western/Christian values is better seen as a war between antiquated Muslims mostly in agrarian undeveloped countries vs. modern Muslims mostly in urban developed countries, where the former group thinks we have created the latter group and are therefore their enemy.
Some people understand that this is a global cultural war. But they blind themselves to the core battle and thereby help out the wrong side.
For clarity, by “not any that I know”, I mean personally.
I don’t believe I quoted anything, Ted; as an atheist with no religious upbringing, I’ve got nothing to go on.
But I can tell you this: there’s no priest or rabbi or reverend or monk reading those sorts of passages from their holy books on a Friday night for the purpose of heating up their adherents to go out and kill the infidel.
This battle that so many here argue is a war of Muslims vs. Western/Christian values is better seen as a war between antiquated Muslims mostly in agrarian undeveloped countries vs. modern Muslims mostly in urban developed countries
Tell that to my Canadian-born neighbours who were scooped up as part of the Toronto 17.
*
“Ted said… I frankly don’t care about what
was happening 1400 years ago in the
Muslim religion.”
Geez, Ted… that’s precisely the point. You don’t
give a crap… but they really, really
do.
The fundamentalist Islamic movement would
be perfectly happy to turn back the clock to
the middle ages… and hang your sorry infidel
a$$ from the nearest lamp post.
Or I guess you could convert.
*
“By Allah, even if only one woman out of a million can be reformed by light beatings… It’s not really beating, it’s more like punching… It’s like shoving or poking her. That’s what it is.”
Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, President of Sunni Islam’s Al-Azhar University, in a video clip from MEMRI explaining how to control a rebellious wife. BTW, he goes to great pains – pardon the pun – to explain they don’t beat wives for no reason, that’s a lie promoted by nonTed infidels.
Neo: “The fundamentalist Islamic movement would be perfectly happy to turn back the clock to the middle ages… and hang your sorry infidel
a$$ from the nearest lamp post.”
That’s why the fundamentalist Islamic movement is such a threat and needs to be destroyed and fought with all we can, including the many more millions of non-fundamentalists.
Dean Spencer: Every hear of the “rule of thumb”? Ever wonder what that meant and why our laws supported it?
C’mon folks, it was only this century with much obstruction and objection that women were considered “persons” and allowed to vote in this country, and less than 150 years since a woman ceased to be considered, at law, property of her husband which was also change with much outrage and outcry.
I say that not to equate – our traditionalist/heritage defenders didn’t go on a killing spree – but to point out that the reason there even is a fundamentalist Islamic “movement” is because deep rooted change was afoot in Muslim countries, brought on by modernization and even westernization, and this is a reaction. Abandoning the Muslim world, painting as a single groupthink of Islamofascists all evil, only helps create the space for more Islamofascists.
“Abandoning the Muslim world, painting as a single groupthink of Islamofascists all evil, only helps create the space for more Islamofascists.”
Not sure “abandoning” is the most accurate term for Canada quadrupling immigration from muslim shia/shiite holes , Ted?
Ted blaming “modernization and even westernization” for Islamic fundamentalism, but not Islam itself? Say it ain’t so.
Sorry Ted, the notion that Islam can be spread by force has been around and applied for the past 1,400 years.
…somewhere deep down, there is dialogue about a man killed in Montreal…
*
“Ted said… That’s why the fundamentalist Islamic movement is such a threat”
unfortunately, tedley… the only muslim i’ve ever heard echo that sentiment
was irshad manji… and she had to fortify her house like the führerbunker, prior to
leaving town to teach in the usa.
it’s a huge, looming threat because jihad is part of mainstream muslim ideology.
you need more detail, read “america alone” by mark steyn.
*
*
Sorry… one last observation.
“Ted said… thumping our chests and saying
we’re oh so much better as a culture”
So what you’re saying is… there’s no such thing
as superior or inferior cultures… just unfamiliar
customs & behaviour?
I’ve got just one question…
*
As Syed Mumtaz Ali wrote:
Apostasy – “According to Muslim Law, a male apostate, or murtadd, is liable to be put to death if he continue obstinate in his error”
Ikrimah relates that some apostates were brought to the Khalifa Ali, and he burnt them alive; but Ibn Abbas heard of it and said that the Khalifa had not acted rightly, for the Prophet had said “Punish not with God’s punishment (i.e., fire), but whosoever changes his religion, kill him with the sword.” (emphasis added)
There are Muslim leaders who condone or advocate the death penalty for apostates.
More here:
http://www.am770chqr.com/station/blog_the_world_tonight.cfm?bid=13129
Ted’s kind of ignoring the unpleasant truth about Islam these days.
Christian fundamentalism is noisy but rare. Literalists are not mainstream Christianity.
Literalist Muslims ARE the mainstream. Hell’s bells Ted, they rule half the countries in the Middle East. Doesn’t get more mainstream than that.
This includes the types that kill people for apostacy, beat their women and perform honour slayings. Thankfully these extreme forms only manifest occasionally, justice system at work there.
Boils down to the thing that there’s a whole lot of guys out there that think these killings are good and appropriate, but they are afraid of jail.
Frankly, that’s a problem for me. You can’t keep a society healthy when fear is all that keeps a sizeable minority in line. They get brave after a while, then we have trouble.
“Whosoever kills a human being for other than manslaughter or mischief in the land, it shall be as if he has killed all humankind, and whosoever saves the life of one, it shall be as if he has saved the life of all humankind.” (Chapter 5, Verse 32)”
Oh Ted you are truly confused… Mohamad was talking about the killing of fellow Muslims, by fellow Muslims. This has nothing to do with infidels like you or me. Trying to say somehow Christianity is the same, is insulting and ignores the truth.
Do the “Ted”s of the world ever wonder about the fact that Countries in the ME ruled by the Muslim faith are Tinderboxes, ruling by terror among their people and spawning terrorism around the world?
Christianity has evolved, Islam has not.