Watching Iran humiliate the captured British sailors has certainly been painful. But it would be a mistake to think others aren’t watching this demonstration of lack of British resolve and drawing their own conclusions.
Indeed, Argentina has taken this moment to push to retake the Falkland Islands:
The Argentinian foreign secretary today said his country’s government would use “more firmness” in its attempts to gain sovereignty of the Falkland Islands.
If they just took the Falklands again, does anyone actually think Britain would do anything about it this time?
You bet Britain would do something about it. Argentina, prepare for…Strong Language!
Or perhaps that would be “little bit strong”
For sure there would be a telephone conversation featuring robust language. Perhaps if things continued to escalate, there would be a second. Argentina is really tempting fate here.
For starters, the Brits have practically dismantled their once magnificent navy and Margaret Thatcher is gone. All of the Brits’ whimpy nanny state decisions of the past decade have come home to roost.
No navy, no spine, no Falklands.
We live in a preditory world where all things will be taken from you in the global playground by bullies if you are perceived as whimps.
When it comes to the soldiers in Iran, here is what they need to do.
Admit the were wrong, kiss the Iranians ass and get the 15 soldiers out of there.
Then when the soldiers are on British soil, tell the world “We lied” and nuke the hell out of Iran.
They are no good to the world. Iran is 100 times worse than Saddam was.
http://federalgossip.blogspot.com
Britain has become emasculated.
There is nothing left except wishful thinking and pathetic posturing! Britain is Dead!
send in the Ghurkas. there are scared Argys or even better are Scared Arabs
nothing turns the other cheeks faster than a frightened fakir. a show of force and there is nothing but mullah moons heading into the mist.
I’m glad Orwel, Nelson and the various Churchills are all gone. They wouldn’t recognize their country and would feel deep shame and humiliation at what today’s generations have done to it.
England has descended beyond parody. The English have denegrated themselves beyond shame.
I’m starting to think that foreign influence controlling England and the US is really incompetence here. This is looking more and more like the farce of Israel invading Lebanon and the weak excuse to do so. I don’t have to remind anybody here who won the PR war on that one do I? In today’s world you being more complex, you can win and still lose the war.
I thought for a while that Tony Blair did a commendable job considering he was trapped in the Labour Party. But Labour is noted for its appeasing ways.
Lately the chickens are coming home to roast. As mentioned on the previous thread a lack of national pride in Britain has weakened it in many ways, especially militarily. The cultural relativists in academia and the BBC have created a sense of guilt for England’s “imperial “past and now they have set themselves upon a course to rewrite their own history and become pacifists.
A friend of mine in London recently mentioned this is the first time in History that the governing party in Parliament doesn’t even have a single member who has served in the Navy. Therefore the symbolism of that leads to the reality of Britain not likely to be steaming to the Falklands this time to save it.
“If they just took the Falklands again, does anyone actually think Britain would do anything about it this time?”
No doubt the degenerate UK socilaists would send out a fleet of “talkers” to “talk” to the aggressors. That’s what decadent socialists do best..flap their gums while taking a beating from criminals.
I still have to wonder WHY there are not 2 Iranian PT boats on the bottom of the gulf with a Sat-guided sighting system on a 3 inch gun on the deck of a UK ship just a short 5 K away from the kidnapping.
My guess is they were under orders not to shoot first….in a conflict zone that is like putting personel in harm’s way and telling not to defend themselves until they are shot…with this type of politics directing UK military actions I can see the old Brit Bulldog is toothless….and every malignant miscreant on the planet will poke the poor old dying thing with a sharp stick as it slinks off into oblivion.
Early days yet, once the location of the prisoners is known do not under-estimate the abilities of the SAS to resolve this issue.
Once again we see the fallacy of the “peace dividend” when socialists of all nations diverted military funding to their pet socialist projects. (Blair, Clinton, Chretin)
While the Brits have definitely reduced the hardware in their forces the are still far better equipped than our own pitiful forces. So lets continue to support the Conservatives as they re-equip our guys.
Britain still has a chance to stop this treatment of their servicemen. They have to act soon or be prepared to watch their men get beheaded on Iranian TV. I would not put it past those Iranians to murder them. They are much more insane now than they were during the hostage crisis of the late 1970s.
Iran will get what they’re ichin’ for…
Patience.
Royal Navy Sailors are sure to be watching with interest, they will speak in a politically correct manner of course, but they will learn a different lesson.
And here’s why the West will endure more 911’s , note how a Geneva Convention “Expert” manages to avoid answering simple question and fails to make Iran the bad guy in this kidnap.
Bill O’Reilly corners her , she then blames it on the USA and Iraq ??? .
Even when this is a UN patrol and the UN condemns the hostage taking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsuooIpnArQ
What is sad is that the Brits are not making their case clear to the Iranian people who hate Acmahdinejad as much as we do.
There should be PR such as ..
**
We are doing our best to resolve this sudden grab of our naval patrol with a peaceful approach as we have no quarrel with the good people of Iran.
Normally, if a patrol did stray into Iranian waters, there would be a radioed warning and the patrol would return to Iraqi waters.
We hope there will be no forced conflict as we have no wish to risk destruction of everything the industrious Iranian people have worked so hard to build for a better way of life.
No doubt our naval patrol will be allowed to return so that nothing sudden or accidentaly destructive could occur.**
or words to that effect..=TG
Does anyone seriously think Canada would do better……or even as good?
We, the West, are on the cusp of effeteness, just waiting for that last nudge to push us, uncomplaining or mewing futilely, over the edge; our parents, and grandparents, by trying to protect us, have made us soft and vulnerable.
The troops on the front line, who are fighting on our behalf, are becoming anachronisms in their youth, and, for so many in our society, embarrassing anachronisms.
The silence from those who have previously shouted loudly about the Geneva Conventions is absolutely deafening.
Again, the Royal Navy should sail. Persian problem solved enroute, then swing by Falklands on way home to avoid a problem there. The mere sailing would fix both.
It isn’t obvious that the Royal Navy isn’t what it was. Compare ships in 1982 and 2007. The current fleet seems quite modern to me. The three carriers are all 1980 vintage, the destroyers the same but the frigates and subs are all newer. I expect that the arms, systems on all have been modernized as well as the fleet air arm (GR3 in 1982, GR7 now).
The comments on days of yore are rose-coloured glasses. Nelson and Churchill? At Nelson’s time there were mutinies and the opposition in parliament didn’t want war with France. Churchill was a lone voice for a decade, deemed a warmonger. The feckless are not new.
Come on Nemo2, don’t try blaming this on our parents and grandparents, they had absolutely nothing to do with this. Try pointing the finger of blame where it belongs, on liberal anti-military history re-writing socialist appeasement multicultural cheering anti-law enforcement all forgiving turn the other cheek unpatriotic greedy criminal take care of number 1 first and foremost don’t worry be happy policies of the left for decades and decades with little interruption. My Dad fought for 5 yrs on the front lines in Europe, Holland, Franch and Italy for this country, endured and though severly wounded luckily for me survived the debacle at Dieppe. So don’t dare blame this friggin whimp assed mess on him or anybody else but the ones who are totally responsible for it.
Ross: Yes, THEY did it, and didn’t want future generations to face it, so ‘they’ thought being ‘liberal’ would protect their offspring.
Instead it made the majority spineless and lacking values and/or understanding of the nature of the ‘real world’.
Look at the Romans and the Visigoths.
Excellent find Robert Walden.
It has to be frustrating for ol’ Bill dealing with the perpetually evasive and undermining left…
“I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of our naval personnel accused by Iran of illegally entering their waters. It is a disgrace. We would never dream of treating captives like this – allowing them to smoke cigarettes, for example, even though it has been proven that smoking kills. And as for compelling poor servicewoman Faye Turney to wear a black headscarf, and then allowing the picture to be posted around the world – have the Iranians no concept of civilised behaviour? For God’s sake, what’s wrong with putting a bag over her head? That’s what we do with the Muslims we capture: we put bags over their heads, so it’s hard to breathe. Then it’s perfectly acceptable to take photographs of them and circulate them to the press because the captives can’t be recognised and humiliated in the way these unfortunate British service people are.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2047128,00.html
Re: The Falklands: I believe the Brits will be firm — will make a phone call to Argentina in which they state in no uncertain terms, “Look, that would not be cricket”.
From something I read somewhere recently:
“The British navy once ruled the waves. Now it waives the rules. In 1950, the Royal Navy boasted nearly 400 ships. By 1980, it had 112. In 2004, the number was down to 44. Now, if the Labour Government has it way, another 13 to 19 ships will be mothballed. Remember the Falklands War? If the Labour Government proceeds as planned with its cuts to the navy, Britain would be physically unable to undertake such a campaign”
AND, despite this demolition, their National Health Service is a shambles too.
Blair is what my deceased father-in-law called “an actor” — a poseur like Clinton, all shiny rhretoric signifying nothing.
Finally, Blair has stated that he keeps a Koran by his bedside and that Islam is a “progressive religion”.
In short, he’s insane.
Iran is a huge importer of gasoline, cut them off, bring them to their knees.
Enough of this Socialist kid glove approach to the Terrorist Iranian regime run by Madmen,both the spiritual leader and the regime President.
They cut out tongues, behead people, kill and torture foreign journalists.
Where are the useless tools in the UN? They are there with their sanction.
Iran wants the US and Britain to attack as it is the only way they will retain their power. The Mullahs and the Iranian Pres are very unpopular amongst the people of Iran as their standard of living and freedoms continue to decline. The Mullahs believe a foreing attack will rally the public to their cause hence Blair and Bush are hesitant to give them what they want.
I may be wrong but W T F is going on with the british Navy,
#1 How did the mothership ,not defend their boarders,without a shot fired on Iranian ships(!!!)
#2 If you had boarded a ship and were threatened by small (iranian ships) ,who cares about your 50 cal,guns we actually have steel and airstrikes for defence.
Where in the hell is Nelson ,who sailed out under (certain defeat)and gave his life willingly and still kicked ass.
Cut off their fuel deliveries and watch em sweat
Memo to all Brigands;
New terms of engagement with The Royal Navy
For hundreds of years engaging The Royal Navy in open combat has proved disastrous for many. The new way to defeat it is not in open combat but by capturing a few of their personnel unharmed. It is important keep them in the media spotlight, showing them to be in good health but worried. A woman hostage is a real bonus.
The public and current government will no longer see them as the fearless sea-dogs of yore that fought to the death for Queen and country. But will see them more like innocent school children who have been inexplicably kidnapped. They will respond with delicacy and caution in hope that their children will soon be safely returned to their families. The ransom paid will be more precious than rubies.
Fritz: Yes, I’m familiar with that argument, but might not there also be an uprising if Iran was attacked.
Your mention of standard of living: I was shocked to read the other day that the Rial has declined from about 70 to the dollar in 1979 to around 9,000 to the dollar now. Massive.
I know an Iranian in Vancouver. I once mentioned to him that I’d heard that GDP per capita had dropped in half since 1979. “Er .. way more”, he said.
I may be wrong but W T F is going on with the british Navy,
#1 How did the mothership ,not defend their boarders,without a shot fired on Iranian ships(!!!)
I have wondered about this, too. I was thinking about asking our sailors if such a thing could happen to Canada, but I realize our forces are unlikely to say much for opsec reasons.
But I’d really like to know how our sailors would have reacted in such a situation.
OT … but am I the only one getting the sinking feeling that the Toronto 17 story may simply fade away never to be heard about again. Yeah, I know, it’s paranoid … but I have this strange feeling that it’ll all be smoothed over in back rooms.
John Derbyshire on the sad state of British affairs:
“15 British Agressors [sic] must be EXECUTED.” That was the placard being held up by some beetle-browed Iranian outside the British Embassy in Tehran. Well, I don’t entirely disagree. I certainly think that those British captives who have let themselves be put forward on Iranian TV, that woman wearing a headscarf, and the young man apologizing to the Iranian gangster-rulers, should be court-martialed for dereliction of duty when they get back to Blighty, with shooting definitely an option.
How on earth can Britons behave like that? A previous generation would not have done so. I knew the women of my mother’s generation pretty well (Mum was born in 1912), and I am certain that any one of them, given that headscarf and told to put it on, would have said: “You can hang me with it if you like, but I’ll be damned if I’ll wear the filthy thing.” The men likewise. What on earth has happened to the British?…..
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?frm=6582&sec_id=6582
If the Muslims want to go back to the seventh century, then the West should be prepared to go back at least to the eighteenth century, disavow the Declaration of Paris (1856) , and reintroduce the “letter of marque and reprisal”.
If you don’t know what that is, see Wikipedia – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_of_marque_and_reprisal – for a decent description of the concept.
In this case, we are dealing with an act of piracy, but one condoned (indeed directed) by a national government. So in this case, the letter should be issued not to capture a specific ship or cargo (the original intention of letters of marque), but rather to exact the “reprisal” aspect of the term, by targetting those responsible – ie Ahmadinejad, Khameni, etc.
And if this means assassination, then so be it. Frankly, I see no reason not to adopt assassination as a means of warfare – it’s been popular enough in the Middle East throughout history. It’s certainly far preferable to classical warfare, where thousands or millions of innocents die. If it’s considered acceptable to suggest that Hitler should have been assassinated before 1939, then it should be acceptable to suggest that his ideological successors be taken out before they get to complete his work.
And since the jihadists insist on asymmetrical warfare, then why not accommodate them? Just put out a bounty and let the market determine who is willing to provide the service.
The videos of British sailors falsely acknowledging that they were operating in Iranian waters have now been broadcast throughout Iran and indeed throughout the world. Mission accomplished. The British sailors will soon be released.
Britain will continue to decline. It is a country which was saved only through the magnificent efforts of a man whom it dismissed as a warmonger before the war, and then immediately thereafter, dismissed as its Prime Minister despite the fact he had almost singularly saved their collective asses.
Only 48% of Britons think they should take military action as a last resort. It would of course be surprising that a people who have chosen the embarrassing sychophancy necessitated by monarchism would not choose dhimminitude over possible death.
Long live the ideals of Churchill, Jefferson and Lincoln.
The videos of British sailors falsely acknowledging that they were operating in Iranian waters have now been broadcast throughout Iran and indeed throughout the world. Mission accomplished. The British sailors will soon be released.
Britain will continue to decline. It is a country which was saved only through the magnificent efforts of a man whom it dismissed as a warmonger before the war, and then immediately thereafter, dismissed as its Prime Minister despite the fact he had almost singularly saved their collective asses.
Only 48% of Britons think they should take military action as a last resort. It would of course be surprising that a people who have chosen the embarrassing sychophancy necessitated by monarchism would not choose dhimminitude over possible death.
Long live the ideals of Churchill, Jefferson and Lincoln.
It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Emiliano Zapata
me no dhimmi: An attack by the US is more likely to rally the Iranians to the Mullahs than cause an uprising against the Mullahs. The Shah was considered a puppet of the US and most Iranians still resent this. For an analogy just think how big anti-Americanism is in Canada, even when Clinton was the Pres.
Recently all kinds of senior military and science personel have being disappearing or been murdered in Iran. There have been lots of suspicous explosions. There have been many open protests by a broad spectrum from students, teachers, unionists, etc. I think a revolt is brewing and the Americans are quietly supporting it like they did when the Ethiopians recently kicked out the Islamists in Somalia. For the uprising to be successful America and the West must not be seen as the ringleaders.
I am so sick of the Middle east.
Nuke em all !!!
http://federalgossip.blogspot.com
So, if the Iranians revolt, overthrow their government and become convinced that America is not the enemy is it even remotely possible that we might convince the CBC of the same notion.
Unfortunately, the Brits have become fools. Passive with their intentional ignorance, cowardliness and willingness to forego truth for warm fuzzies with Islamo-extremists and every other nation. Aside from the French, they lead the modern world in self-destructive national policies and their citizens will pay dearly for it through various forms of enslavement. As to Blair with his “ratchet up the pressure” talk: I’m wetting my pants. Please Mr. Blair, stop it, you’re scaring us! Blair and his nation are gonna get spanked by their enemies. Once Great Britain is now a nation of Great losers. How sad.
there was a time , and still is that a right good thrashing would be appropriate.
Where’s Winston? by Ralph Peters:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04032007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/wheres_winston__opedcolumnists_ralph_peters.htm
Nemo 2 ditto the cowards currently rule
as far as the iranian people being unhappy with the rulers i see no evidence of that only unsubstantiated words from some msm
The Brits are already fighting two wars. It’s no surprise that Iran is being bolder and rumblings about the Falklands are emerging again from Argentina. The British are already stretched and they know it.
Anybody who thinks the British aren’t the same sea pirates they have always been hasn’t studied history. They may seem effeminate and weak to an outsider, but you only have to attend a soccer game to see their true nature…
Captured soldiers and sailors are trained to cooperate with their captors. The goal is to stay alive. When forced to make statements, they do so in a way that is different from their normal manner of speaking – probably a flat, unconvincing monotone.
As I saw it described the small boats were a couple of miles away from the main ship when the incident happened.While the Iranian boats were probably on everyones radar being nosey is par for the course and no reasonable expectation of capture of a UN sanctioned operation would be expected, by the time they realized what was going on it was too late.
Had the Iranians been fired upon think how that would have played in the middle east.
>>”So, if the Iranians revolt, overthrow their government and become convinced that America is not the enemy is it even remotely possible that we might convince the CBC of the same notion.”
Well, ya gotta revolt first.
First off the Falklands/Las Malvinas issue is complicated. Secondly, having been there several times myself, I can tell you that the Argentine government currently in power is nothing like the one that started the Falklands war.
My fiancee is Argentine so I make annual trips there, and am getting married there this October.
The Argentine military is predominantly a small and compact peacekeeping force, with an emphasis on UN missions and home defence. Believe it or not they actually outrank Canada in UN peacekeeping forces currently.
Argentina will not retake the islands by force. Most Argentines are vehemently against any sort of military action to reclaim the land. The biggest issue the country has had was that up until the last couple years, Argentines couldn’t even go to las Malvinas without special permits. Many Argentine soldiers’ bodies were never recovered, and there are still many families of lost men who would like to go there regularly to pay respects.
I think the Argentines will eventually get the islands back from the British. Honestly there isn’t much reason to hold on to them. We are talking about two tiny and insignificant sheep farms. Its like St. Pierre et Miquelon but without the good fishing.