The ante was just upped in the illegal immigration/border fence debate;
A U.S. Border Patrol entry Identification Team site was overrun Wednesday night along Arizona’s border with Mexico.
According to the Border Patrol, an unknown number of gunmen attacked the site in the state’s West Desert Region around 11 p.m. The site is manned by National Guardsmen. Those guardsmen were forced to retreat.
The Border Patrol will not say whether shots were fired. However, no Guardsmen were injured in the incident.
The Border Patrol says the incident occurred somewhere along the 120 mile section of the border between Nogales and Lukeville. The area is known as a drug corridor. Last year, 124-thousand pounds of illegal drugs were confiscated in this area.
The Border patrol says the attackers quickly retreated back into Mexico.
Yikes.
h/t Drudge
Lou Dobbs should be stroking out just about now…..
The drug weenies are better funded than the Mexican Army. In some cases they ARE the Mexican Army.
I’ve been down there to Nogales a few times, people have no idea how bad its getting.
Imagine dirt poor people who don’t speak English streaming across the farmland of Ontario down around Niagara Falls. There are THOUSANDS every week. They break down fences and let the cows out. They leave garbage and clothing everywhere. They steal stuff. They intimidate you on your own land.
They get stuck in the snow and have to be rescued. Daily. Farmers find dead kids and women and little babies when the snowbanks melt in the spring.
If they are busting up your barn and you call the cops, the cops DON’T COME. If you arrest them yourself and drag their asses down to the cop shop, they show up back on your farm a week later and you have to arrest ’em again.
Switch the snow for 120 degrees F , mountains and no water, that’s the Arizona border. Drug traffic is just the cherry on top.
Anybody think we’d put up with that? Any reason the Americans should?
By the way, I expect the Arizona National Guard retreated because they were ordered to, not because they had to. AZ Guard is a pretty capable outfit.
The guard units cannot shoot anyone by law!
In a less enlightened, less nuanced age, this would be an act of war.
Time to change the ROE for these guardsmen.
In a less enlightened, less nuanced age, this would be an act of war.
And what would this be?
The guard units cannot shoot anyone by law!
And a damn shame it is. Indeed, they need revised ROEs.
No! No! No! The Democrats and the Neocons will have their first united stand against stopping these drug.,I mean..illegal.. I mean unfortunate citizens of the less fortunate Mexico from being intimidated by the National Guard.
They will open the door legally for all Mexicans who will want to come and of course, amnesty for all who are there now.
Make it legal and there is no problem.
…if this was done in an urban grocery store setting it would be called “swarming”…
If it happened outside Caledonia, it would be called “the consequences of insensitivity to native culture”
Kate Wrote,
“If it happened outside Caledonia, it would be called “the consequences of insensitivity to native culture” ”
….LOL…
Let’s hope this is the tipping point to get the wall up and sealed.
This whole situation down here in the US is starting to get into the area of the “weird”.
Phantom, I think you characterized it rather well.
Roughly 84% of the American people want the borders secured, want US business owners to be penalized if they hire illegals, and most illegals deported.
So why doesn’t it happen?
We are told “they just want to work.” Well, my god, everyone wants to work, but that’s no reason to abandon sovereignty, put huge strains on our social services network, and making US taxpayers responsible for picking up the tab on all this.
And yet our politicians seem to be willing to lose elections and resist the overwhelming mandate delivered to them by the American people to serve some agenda they do not disclose to us.
(I was on the horn with Senator Hutchison’s and Senator Cornyn’s offices earlier today… and at least Senator Cornyn is going to try to derail an initiative that would allow illegal aliens to receive social security pensions.)
I also should say that about a year ago our House of Representatives passed a bill that would have made it a felony to be in the US illegally, and I don’t want to cast aspersions on them, since I have only praise for that initiative.
I’ve mentioned something I think is happening occasionally, and it’s never gotten any feedback because it’s a very foreign and unpleasant thing to think about.
Because big business is capitalistic, and conservatives and capitalistics, and because we both have enemies on the political left, I think that big business has been allowed to take various initiatives that have been opaque to us.
Corporate America wants the cheap labor that illegal aliens provide. And they have cover from us because we are champions of their activity and appreciate their capitalistic zeal.
However, their enthusiasm for cheap labor along with their highly financed lobbying efforts and campaign contributions give them cache in Washington that is almost irresistable.
Whether the senator or representative is Democratic or Republican, big business is an important corporate citizen in the state or district. Our politicians will do almost anything to protect a business in their territory that creates jobs, provides pension plans, and brings new possibilities for economic success to the state or district.
I think it is time for conservatives to begin to realize that simply because we and corporate America are both champions of capitalism, that doesn’t mean that corporate American can’t become too influential and pursue objectives that are not in concert with the will of the American people.
(I think PowerCorps and some other Canadian corporations are involved in a similar arrangement.)
So in short, we are on the horns of a dilemma here. The American people want one thing, big business wants cheap labor, and wants American workers to compete with people happy to work for smaller salaries and who are not as demanding in terms of benefit packages.
Here in the US, the people still have enormous power, and I think we may be able to come to terms with this problem. The present crop of recently elected conservative Democrats ran on very vigorous enforcement of the border. They outflanked Republicans who were not using the gift of majority that we gave them to pursue our conservative agenda.
I think it is time for Americans to begin to demands some accountability on this issue, and some responsible citizenship from corporate America.
If not, you’re eventually going to see trouble on our border with Mexico that will be outside of the realm of negotiation and diplomacy. Americans can shoot back, and if it became necessary because of irresponsible government, something would have to be done.
To put people in danger on the US mexican border with out the means to defend themselves is criminal. This border is like a freeway,for drugs and more than likly terrorists. Lets face it you certainly would not want to offend any one trying to cross the boarder with drugs or what ever.When an unarmed person is killed there wiil be more than a mess fore the government.
“The guard units cannot shoot anyone by law!”
Unless the US standing ROE differs from Canadian, for military personnel, there is always the inherent right to self-defence to prevent grievous bodily harm. Maybe it is different..just my 2 cents.
Just last May the commanding officer of the National Guard, Lt. Gen. H. Steven Blum, was asked if the Guardsman could shoot back. “In short, absolutely. Every soldier always has the right of self-protection to preserve their life and to save the lives of others…” The problem would be that some of these listening posts are manned by unarmed NG units, both Army and Air Force. As usual it’s much to early to make hasty judgements but I seem to remember another war that started almost identically. Except this time the US does not want any part of Mexico as either reparation or to purchase. Well, maybe Cancun and San Jose del Cabo.
Hi Greg in Dallas,
I think corporate America might want universal healthcare too, in order to relieve itself of the responsibility. And if given half a chance I wonder if Congress could resist. Universal health care would serve up access and control of a huge amount of money.
…Ah yes Caledonia…
Canada’s Beruit…
Yes, the right to self defence is an inherent human right, and I’ve never heard of an army taking away that right from it’s soldiers. In the military context, “self defence” refers to the unit as a whole, so that if someone shoots at one of my soldiers, I and all the others can shoot back as well, since it’s considered an attack on all of us.
In addition to the right to self defence, soldiers usually have the right to intervene with deadly force in order to protect others. This right is pretty much never revoked in domestic situations, because protection of our own citizens is largely a desirable objective. It is however revoked much more often while overseas, especially while deployed on UN missions.
In short, if the guardsmen at the border were attacked with deadly force, they almost certainly had every right to respond in kind. And if it’s true that they’re patrolling the border unarmed, their superiors should be fired. Taking away the ability to defend themselves would be criminally stupid.
the United States is in a de-facto state of war with Mexico…too bad so much of the american military is in Iraq….a very close friend of mine(a Canadian who did 2 tours in Vietnam)winters in Texas…from what he can see, firefights along that border will be as commonplace as Ontario children smoking contraband native cigs….
No dount the attacks or evasion of US border security will be facilitated by the GPS units and observasion posts the Mexican government is supplying their illegal invaders with:
http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/state/16384698.htm
No doubt the attacks or evasion of US border security will be facilitated by the use of GPS units and observasion posts the Mexican government is supplying their illegal invaders with:
http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/state/16384698.htm
hi concrete, I think you’re right that many US corporations would like to envision universal health care to take that financial responsibility off their shoulders.
This just illustrates my point that while conservatives are valiantly defending corporations because we share a capitalistic world view, corporations are willing to get into bed with socialist schemes to further their bottom line.
I have appreicate and respect corporations, but it is time for conservatives to realize that simply because we are both capitalistic, that doesn’t mean that their methods and goals are identical with ours.
Ultimately, neither socialism nor plutocracy represents the kind of societies that we want.
WL Mackenzie Redux, you might be interested to know that the Minutemen are moving down to the area of the border where the overrun took place. In as much as the Minutemen are armed (I consider myself to be a possible candidate), they will group with the National Guard, who are not. (their mission being simply to locate illegals and call the Border Patrol.)
So this shows you how daffy this situation has become. We now have citizens groups, because of our right to bear arms, needing to protect the military. Is this all crazy, or what…
I want to make it clear that my views about this illegal activity are strictly confined to Mexico. I believe that North America should get on the same page in terms of security so that Canada and the US can feel good about one another’s security policies. Then my view is that there should be no restrictions to Americans and Canadians passing freely back and forth across our borders.