Dion: We Will Restore Policy To Jail Western Farmers

138 Replies to “Dion: We Will Restore Policy To Jail Western Farmers”

1. I asked you before, Maryjane – what do you do for a living?

2. “OK, so what part of the Charter is the CWB violating?”
   Section 15 – equality.

3. The question is, will the bobble head Librano-voting zombies in Trawna buy into it as a good idea, or not, regardless of its viability? My guess is that not too many of them will bother to become more informed than the Trawna Red Star, Commie Broadcasting Contraption and Bull CluelessMedia will spoon feed to them.
   Watch for new pictures of long trains of wheat-carrying trains, elevators, CSL grain-carrying ships and so on as the hermetic sealing of the Librano voting rats continues apace.
   Freedom. To a Librano, it’s a dangerous thing.

4. Look at the CWB like a realtor, or an auctioneer.
   In selling a property, realtors take a percentage of the sale price (home sales: 7%/first 100000, 3%/rest, split between two realtors). Now, is a seller’s realtor TRULY interested in maxing out the price for a seller, or more interested in a quick sale, since they get 3% ($30) of an extra thousand, and more sales make more money (volume, volume, volume).
   An auctioneer is paid a percentage of the selling price of a item. Again, the autioneer gets only a small portion of the selling price, but nothing if the item isn’t sold, so his motivation is to SELL at any price.
   The CWB wants to get rid of their stocks of wheat/barley as quickly as possible. The nasty bit is that the CWB gets paid from the profits from the sale of someone else’s product as a flat fee, not a percentage, so that all they have to do is sell for enough to pay their own expenses, and who cares about the farmer. They have no motivation to sell for a decent price, just to sell.
   And the law forces Prairie farmers to sell only through the CWB. You can sell your house or your items yourself, and avoid a realtor or an auctioneer, and get the best price, but not your wheat/barley.
   So, since the softwood industry is in so much trouble, why not the Canadian Lumber Board, just for Alberta/BC? Or the Maritimes Fish Board (wait a minute, too late). Or the Canadian Manufacturing Board for Ontario. Or the NOB for Alberta petroleum, but not the Maritimes or BC?
   I seem to remember, from the past, when farmers were ranting about the CWB selling cheap to some country or another, and the Canadian government giving loan gaurantees to that country to pay for the grain (they defaulted, of course, so the farmers ended up paying for their own grain through taxes.)
   As a “benefit” for farmers, this seems like a non-starter.
   Or am I wrong, and the CWB squeezes every penny they can from the buyers?

5. Sorry Wildrose, don’t buy it. It is a laudable goal tho.
   Lets take your example of a pasta plant. Yes it would be good for my farm and I would love to have one near me. And if they set up one in say Swift Current and asked for investment… I would still try to find an opportunity to invest in one near Toronto.
   I must be nuts right? or maybe I know enough geography and economics to know that I would make more money investing in a pasta plant in Toronto than one around here. Pasta is a good example because of the transportation involved. Pasta compared to wheat is a very fragile product and people don’t want to buy noodles broken in transport. Then there is increasing the space in the truck with the air b/t the noodles. Grain in comparison is far cheaper to move and who cares if it gets cracked because we are gonna pulverize it anyway.
   There will not be a pasta plant built in Saskatchewan in the next 50 years. At least not by anyone with good business sense.
   The North Battleford ethanol plant is another good example of how to do something backwards. They are trying to buy farmer investment to put it up by guaranteeing a floor price to shareholders on a portion of deliveries. Problem is… would you invest in a company that is committing to buy it inputs at above market value for them? Again very good for the farmers in the area. Stupid for anyone interested in investing.
   I have always wondered why economics is not required to graduate say… Kindergarten let alone most university.

6. And yet another nail in the “natural ruling party’s”coffin over at Angry..Landslide Annie KNEW about cost overruns with Gun Registry..lots of info there!The new Libs should change their name to all sleaze all the time.They knew,and if let out,could have cost them election..Annie retained her seat that yr.Putrid!

7. Charter Schmarter. Who cares about that waste of paper. The point is that if you produce something you should be allowed to sell and or market it yourself and reap ALL of the profit for your labours. That is called C-A-P-I-T-A-L-I-S-M. I don’t care much about what laws politicians have cooked up to line the pockets of themselves and their friends. This is one of those things that is easily figured out by anyone with common sense.
   Also note that I am not claiming Liberals lack common sense. I am pointing out the fact that they are two-bit hoods hustling farmers for “protection” money. If that is a position you are willing to defend…well, maybe you should move to Cuba with one of the Trudeau boys.

8. ”I asked you before, Maryjane – what do you do for a living?”
   Private sector, blue collar, but what possible difference could it make to the issue at hand?

9. I’ll be very surprised if the Conservative government is able to dismatle the CWB. Any Plebicite they hold will find a way to be played with especially if its a mail in ballot. “It doesn’t matter who casts the vote only who counts it” — that was from Stalin.
   To understand the left’s playbook take a look at the recent election in Venezuela. Corruption!!
   A recent study by an EASTERN Canadian “think-tank” just got proposed that excessive taxation makes average quality of life “better” (translation:if everyones poor, average income falls, poor people no longer consdered to be in poverty. : since everyone has nothing socialism is a benefit)(apparently this doesn’t make people happy!! go Figure!!) With these kinds of people around getting headlines in the MSM it kinda looks like communism ain’t dead yet, NO matter how BAD an idea it is!!
   Things are only going to change when Western People get tired of this “special treatment” and stand up. Sadly words probably won’t be enough.
   (Western people = People who call the WEST home for the long term, not migratory workers)

10. As you’re really a one trick pony here, it’s useful to put your complaints about subsidies in the appropriate context.

11. maryjane:
    I assume that you are referring to subsidies, relief, etc to farmers from general taxes.
    A difficult issue.
    (No sarcasm intended at any point)
    Canada could try subsistance farming; only enough farms producing enough food for the country’s own usage. Of course, that would reduce the number of farms, reducing the tax base, and we would have to buy out the extra farmers, from tax revenue. And, of course, imports from a subsidised country would kill a few more farms, because we can’t block imports (WTO rules) and can’t compete with subsidies. And we would be vulnerable to drought, pestilence, global warming, global cooling, etc. And the price of food would increase to a more realistic level. And the poor would need more money to buy food, raising taxes to pay welfare, etc…
    We could stop subsidising “orphan” crops like hemp and other trendy things that no-one knows what to do with. Maybe a good idea anyway.
    We could just cut farmers loose; sink or swim. Unfortunately, after the blood-bath, food would be nearly unobtainium, but since we need to be a Third World country to meet Kyoto, that would be a great help. And, there’s that shrinking tax base that has to be compensated by raising tax rates.
    And, though it all, the price of cotton and sugar in the US or wheat in the EU wouldn’t be effected in the slightest. Because, they DO subsidise their farmers unmercifully.
    The problem is that we either sink or swim as a nation; it is us against the world. The farm subsidies hurt you and me at our tax time, but the alternative is also painful. As largely a raw materials exporter, we have some built-in disadvantages. As a value-added nation that exports unique products, we wouldn’t be at the mercy of commodities markets. We aren’t, so we are.
    And all of the farmers I know are just waiting until the year the money runs out and then they quit/lose the farm, unless they have an outside job that subsidises the farm. And that is a killer lifestyle.

12. Of course, maybe the billion dollars … um … expropriated??? for softwood lumber could be used to pay off whatever the Nafta fines are for the CWB. Put it on the tab! Would we really have to throw out NAFTA? These are exceptions to the trade between the U.S. and Canada. We’ll continue to muddle along.
    Let’s face it, while the Americans pander to swing state governors, both sides in Canada play politics with the Wheat Board, looking for voters in different places. However, when it comes down to a free vote on the CWB, most producers support it. Don’t they? At least as far as the CWB’s elected representatives go. You can’t want to recognize a free vote on same sex marriage and not recognize one on the CWB. Can you? Damn this gets complicated.

13. Barcs,
    What you’re talking about is the same manufacturing / transportation to market, etc. problems that any business has. Why is there any reason to believe that we here could not solve these, just as other people have done? Clearly SOMEONE manufactures and transports pasta!

14. Good comments, Foobius.
    It reminds me of the “economists” who maintain that grain farming should be phased out in the prairies (Palliser is usually exhumed to help the argument along)- as though the remaining beef, poultry, hog and other industries that keep food on people’s plates would just truck along without consequence.

15. I guess that’s why I can never open a box of Kraft dinner without finding half of it shattered to smithereens.
    *sigh*

16. you’ve got in Wildrose. And they do it next to large population centers.
    Like coke… so most of their product is sold close and they don’t have to transport water (water is ubiquitous) over long distances.
    That’s why you do pulp and paper near forests, thats why you do fish processors near the ocean and neither of those happens or is going to happen in southwest Saskatchewan either.

17. Mary Jane:
    Ever since you dumped Peter Parker, you’ve become much less interesting.

18. Most people have been so brainwashed all their lives about the CWB that they don’t realize that the so-called “monopoly” Part IV of the Act applies equally to all Canada, and there are no exceptions. Every exporter must have a licence. In the East they are granted, and in the west they are denied. This forces the grain to the CWB.
    Strahl is letting us down. All he has to do is order the Board to grant licences to western farmers just as they do for eastern farmers. Without their captive supplies, the CWB would soon be eager to set up a working voluntary system.

19. Value added on the prairies, very, very good idea.
    Question; What percentage of the Canola crop is processed on the prairies ?? … into cooking oil, margarine ect ??
    Japan is a huge buyer of Canadian Canola. What percentage do they buy as already processed oil ?? I beleve it is miniscule. Why ??

20. Hi Barcs,
    The pasta situation is only one of many which speaks to the secondary industries which would be possible if farmers didn’t have to buy their grain back from the CWB and was just an example. The operation of the CWB does tend to dampen down any of these types of intiatives. Go just over the border into the US and have a look at what is going no there (not that the situation is exactly the same).
    By the way, just checked 3 pasta products in my cupboards anc they were manufacured or at least packaged in: Ontario, Ontario and Quebec…….somebody has been successful at schelping the stuff!

21. get rid of the CWB and treat ALL farmers equally….I remember golfing with this Supt of schools that had just retired from his Ontario job and I asked him, thinking that being a Supt of Schools he would be a smart guy and have an answer for me cause I never could understand the discrimination, and his response was,Well that is just the way it is” I said what do you mean that isnt an answer, to which he repied,”THAT’S THE WAY IT’S ALWAYS BEEN AND THAT’S IT” what the hell kind of snwer is that, what kind of BS treating western farmers diff.than eastern farmers??????????????????????? WHY???

22. You are not paying attention Wildrose.
    I told you where the pasta plants are down east next to population centers, I don’t need to look at that box.
    My point is not that the product is undesirable. The point is that as an investor in any company I would want the company to have the lowest input costs and more importantly one of the highest profit margin.
    That means (just like your box says) that pasta is produced near large population centers down east so that transport costs and transport losses are low.
    Not here in Saskatchewan.

23. Time for Alberta to leave this liberal country – the sooner the better!!!!!

24. Lessee, canola.
    I think Canada crushes about 1/3 of its production. most of the meal and about 2/3 of the oil is exported to the US.
    and Japan is less than 2% of our oil market. Meal sales there are negligible.

25. It is usually more economical to manufacture near the raw material. Higher value, less total tonnes, lower freight costs.
    For decades the Crow Rate Subsidy made it economical for the processing to be done in Ont, Que. Closer to the population, …. and, of course, the votes.
    The Crow was eliminated in 1996. The Prairie Farmers freight cost went up by about a buck a bushel(less in Alberta). The trade-off was to be value added industry on the prairies, actually a good idea. More control over one’s product.
    To some extent it has happened, (Brooks,Alta slaughters half of all cows, I believe), but there is still a lot of grain shipped to port, at staggering freight rates.
    Farmers should strive to be in control of their production, processing, sales. More profitable, more econonical. Don’t leave it up to politicians or middlemen.

26. Pasta Plants: Used to be a Catelli in Lethbridge. Closed now. When the Leth Brewery closed, there was a company that wanted to convert it to
    to some kind of processing plant. It was denied by city council. Plant moved to US and is doing great. One female council member, showing her ignorance, said on TV, we do not want trucks with grain driving on our streets. Someone asked her what did she think beer was made from and how did the barley get to the brewery. Another pasta plant was to be built in southern alberta. Public meetings, etc attended by smart looking men in great suits, lots of brouchers etc listing ex. officers, lots of details how investment would double etc. Lots of farmers put up 5000.00/share, some bought more than one. Guess what, it was all a scam. They walked off with all the money, and investors were left out in the cold. We didn’t fall for it. Hey, I will build you a pasta plant, hog plant or whatever you want in your community. Just give me all the money up front. Few months after that fiasco, same people arrived in another small town to build an ammunition plant. Guess they didn’t realize that the same people attended the meeting, as all small towns know about everything in the next town. Maybe they will show up again and try to get us to invest in the liberals.

27. I detest the CWB and what it has done to western farmers. Any time that one side of an arguement tries to use scare tactics which essentially amount to “the sky is going to fall down but we can’t tell you why” it’s mighty suspicious. I’d love to see the CWB books audited before any plebecite because that might change a lot of people’s minds. All I hear from the side “for the CWB” is that big multinational companies will come in and steal their profit. It sounds to me like the Libranos “Stephen Harper will destroy the country and all of our treasured Canadian values.” or the NDP in SK “Hermanson will sell the crowns.” Oh no – not change – it’s too scary. It’s a terrible thing to lose freedom over your own property because others are afraid that you might do better selling it than they will. Most farmers I know never vote in Wheat Board elections but I know permit book holders who do and they haven’t farmed in close to 20 years – they rent out their land (cash rent). The issue is complex if a plebecite is in play – just make it voluntary (but I agree with History that those who choose to sell through the CWB should sign a 3-5 year contract to sell only through them). At least that is more fair than right now. Still would like to see their accounting books though – I’m certain there is some dirty dealing.

28. Close B. Hoax. Close.
    But it depends on other stuff too. Sometimes transport costs are higher for the product than the raw material. ex) Pasta.
    Sometimes you have more than one raw material so you are close to one or the other or the market or in the middle. EX) water is ubiquitous, sugar is produced in southern US. So you set up your coca-cola plant near the population centers.
    Sometimes other input factors reign. Thats why Aluminum is produced in Quebec and BC from boxite mined around Mexico and southern US. (requires lots of high cost electricity so do it where there is cheap hydro)
    And sometimes transport is subsidized one way or the other.
    While Ontario and Quebec are big… Globally they are still very small. The crow rate was set up as a subsidy to farmers to ship to port. (Ontario and Quebec also produces more grain than they use.) And a slaughter house has no connection with the crow except that there is more livestock production here to use up some grain rather than ship it to port.
    More animals simply means we now have enough to hit the critical mass needed to set up a processing facility.

29. Canola Growers Ass. data. For 2004
    Exported seed .. 3.7 million tonnes
    Exported oil … 0.7 mt
    Japan bought 60% of seed exports but only 1% of oil. They would rather the crushing industry be in Japan, I guess.
    A previous poster claimed the CWB(gov’t) made a deal with other countries on fishing rights. If this is borne out, it shows what political power can do to you.
    The govmit has always treated Farmers like mushrooms; keep them in the dark and throw s**t at them!! Blogs will change the first part, at least.

30. Mary T, same with the Isobord Straw Plant in Elie MB.
    Scam from the git-go. Farmers have to do it themselves. As soon as you hear “expert”, head for the door.
    Definition of expert; “just some fool away from home”.
    Ever notice on TV/papers ect, they usually refer to their guests as;
    “Experts”
    “Leading Scientists”
    “Professors”
    “Top Commentator”
    “Senior Reporter”
    “Top Commentators”, what a joke. The commenters on this Blog, by and large, have got it together better than most CBC/CTV nutbar, so-called guest.

31. Somewhat OT,
    but you gotta check out Dion’s latest rant with Jane Taber,
    at Stephen Taylor’s blog.
    Dion calls himself a “hero”,
    and babbles about saving sea birds.
    This guy is not ready for prime time.
    Here:
    http://www.stephentaylor.ca/archives/000749.html

32. Manitoba is holding a referendum on the CWB even though this is a federally owned institution.
    The lefties may be cutting the CWB’s throat.
    Alberta farmers will vote for the end of the monopoly if given the chance in my opinion.
    I am glad Rosie Wowchuk is sending out these ballots to their producers because the CWB cannot be trusted, which is evident with today’s announcement by Dion and Measner.

33. Day 1: Beaker enters parliament and calls sitting PM a “control freak” and ruling party “far-right”.
    Day 2: Beaker rattles tax sabre at Alberta’s energy industry and newly minted Premier Stelmach.
    Day 3: Beaker petulantly digs himself into a big hole over his French citizenship.
    Day 4: Beaker pokes a stick in the eye of western grain farmers.
    Once he has gassed all the Liberal’s chances in the west will he be moving onto other areas of the country for a similar performance?
    It’s week one and this guy, for Harper, is the gift that just keeps on giving and giving and giving. Pinch me.

34. That may be so Bart,
    but I don’t think the sea birds would agree with you.
    Don’t you see Bart. It’s all about the sea birds.

35. Long time reader… first time poster.
    It’s been nearly 5 years since I received my last CWB payment. After 20 years of being held hostage by the CWB, I finally had enough and got out. When I started farming in 1981, no one could give me a straight answer as to why I had to sell my wheat and barley to the CWB, other than “thats the law”. The fact that this only applied to Western Canada said it all
    To me this is not a difficult issue at all. Its a matter of fundimental rights. If all the liability in the production of the commodity is mine, then so should the ability to sell to the highest bidder, whomever and wherever. It’s that simple. I don’t need left wing political hacks and “all wise” agricultural academics telling me what is best for me. All they do is throw up smoke screens that deflect attention away from the basic issue.
    When we get a conservative majority, the CWB as we know it and loath it will gone… When the books are finally opened, the decades of political manipulation and outright fraud and deceit by Liberal governments (Lang, Whelean, et. al.) will make adscam look like a petty theft.
    Could this be why the Libs are so concerned over a Western issue?

36. The CWB was set up to let farmers east of Manitoba the “freedom” to sell into the market at there preference, all the while handcuffing the Western producers. A hangover of “Imperialistic Fantasy” that those in the, Criminally Organized, LPoC want to perpetuate. What should we tell the Lie-beral’s too dooo?

37. Kate, I agree with you – they don’t want to open the books. I say “Send in the AG!!!” as in the Auditor General!

38. “Exported seed .. 3.7 million tonnes”
    Canada produces more than 9 billion tonnes…. Japan is obviously a huge market for us.
    Here’s some real data for you B. Hoax, rather than the grower (special interest) group’s numbers.
    http://www.canola-council.org/oilmealexports.html
    http://www.canola-council.org/acreageyields.html

39. Bruce, Actually the Act was amended in 1947, and internal documents show that it was to tax exports and imports (with the money going to the government) so that the government could set the price in Canada and farmers would supply cheap wheat to Great Britain (for 4 years) after the war.
    Essentially, those sections of the Act remain the same today and they apply equally to all Canada. Its the bureaucrats in Winnipeg that make the difference, not the Act that are abusing the west. But they need the monopoly to hold all those jobs.

40. John, I call bulls*”t on your assertion that any section of the act was ever intended to benefit Western Canadian farmers, there is no “Equal” application to “ALL” of Canada. Shall we continue on to the dairy sector?

41. Bruce, I haven’t said the licencing Part IV was put in to benefit western farmers. It was put in to benefit the government who had a 4 year agreement with Britain and they didn’t want to pay world prices if the price went up.
    But its a fact, not a matter of opinion, that Part IV applies equally to all Canada.

42. Quick! Someone ask Stephane which direction the North Saskatchewan flows.

43. John, Bull*#it! You’re a Lie-beral hack! You can do with “Part IV” what all of you Lie-beral’s do!

44. Good comments Beever. That probably is the only reason the Libs would be interested in a Western Issue. That, and the NEP. Now with Kyoto and Alberta being home to some of Canada’s biggest polluters, look out. Dion’ll really be out to make a name for himself.

45. Bruce, you need to understand the enemy. It isn’t me.
    You can easily go to the CWB Act. You will see that it is composed of separate Parts. Parts II and III apply only to the designated area (AND SAY SO). Part IV is called “REGULATION OF INTERPROVINCIAL AND EXPORT TRADE IN WHEAT”
    It applies to all Canada. The words sound extremely tough, until you realize they also apply to Ontario and Quebec.
    There are court rulings if you still don’t believe.
    I know, its quite amazing. We have been lied to for years. The last thing the CWB and Liberals want is for Western farmers to know the truth

46. Either all citizens have the same freedoms to enjoy property in this country – or we don’t. -Kate
    I believe the Liberal riposte to this will be some variant of “all citizens are equal, but some citizens are more equal than others.”

47. http:// cmte.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/committee/391/agri/evidence/ev2446409/agriev23-e.htm#Int-1726201
    This is the evidence given from one House of Commons’ Committee for Agriculture and Agrifood meeting this Oct.
    These witnesses wanting to opt out of the CWB have very interesting testimonies…very interesting!
    From one of the larger Saskatchewan organic barley producers, Boyd Charles:
    “Not one bushel of organic grain that I’ve sold since 1999 has actually been traded in Canada, except one sale of feed grain to a local organic chicken place near Winnipeg. So all my grain has been shipped to Europe, the United States, or Japan. I buy back every bushel from the Canadian Wheat Board, and I’m here to talk about this ridiculous buy-back feature that organic farmers have to go through.
    For example, I bought back 462 tonnes of feed wheat in February–around 15,000 bushels–to ship to a place in the United States. The contract I signed was for a buy-back of $6.92 a tonne. I don’t get the final results until the end of the crop year, so I just got a bill in the mail the other day for $11,000. That is a little over three times what the initial contract said. I don’t know anybody who can run a business if you don’t have any control over the costs.
    I just grew a malt variety for an organic maltster in Missouri under contract. It was accepted, and I’m ready to ship 50,000 bushels of malt barley to this organic maltster in Missouri. The trucks are hired, the contract’s been signed, and the only thing left to do is buy back the malt barley from the Canadian Wheat Board.
    I phoned down for a buy-back and I couldn’t believe it. The buy-back on malt barley that day was $2.65 a bushel. That meant I would have had to stroke a cheque to the Canadian Wheat Board for in the neighbourhood of $140,000 if I had bought back my malt barley that day. ….
    What disgusts me so much is that they couldn’t even buy the grain if I offered it to them. I can’t take it near any of their facilities or it would be contaminated. Organic grain has to be shipped in a certified vessel. So even if I offered them the grain they couldn’t buy it, at least in the experiences I’ve had with them…..
    They have nothing to do with selling my grain. They have nothing to do with transporting my grain. They didn’t find the buyer. I have all the expenses of growing it, yet I have to turn over a dollar a bushel to them just for the privilege of their buying my grain and then selling it back to me….”
    >>>>
    I will post the comments to do with LICENSING, which will perk many ears, and should, in the next post.

48. lots of room for fired CWB employees in the Quebec Dairy Industry or the Ontario Liquor Control Board.
    and they will feel at home in the faded Dame la Belle Province and her ignoble suitor Ontario.
    FREE THE WEST!!!!

49. KevinB, spot on, Lie-beral’s want not , but to enjoy their own(?)property, but to take for themselves the property of all others who do not conform to the Lie-beral way. Why are Lie-beral’s so opposed to the idea of having to account for their many transgressions against the Canadian taxpayer. Where is the NINE BILLION DOLLARS that went to the, so called, Private Foundations? Laundered through Haiti perhaps?

50. You can argue all you want about what section of the Act applies to which area etc. That’s just another smokescreen. It means absolutely squat.
    Harper and Chuckie simply have to change, repeal, destroy, burn or otherwise render null and void..whatever stands in the way of Western Canadian farmers selling their wheat to the highest bidder. It’s that simple. All the studies, expert opinions, fearmongering, Chicken Little impressions etc. are nothing more than feeble attempts to defend the indefensible position, that farmers are being denied a very basic right.