Humboldt Journal (jpg);
In her acceptance speech [Rev. Brenda] Curtis said some people think the United Church is a front for training New Democrats.
“But I assure you that it’s not. However, I have my suspicions that if Jesus had been a party politician, he would have been a card-carrying New Democrat.”
First things first – would Jesus have been a member of the United Church of Canada?
agitfact:
more education? and what are we getting now after 8 yrs grade school and 4 years hi school?
legions of idiots incapable of cohesive expression obsessed with the latest fashion trend.
I went to the administrative offices of the bd of ed here in RobertJville, just down the street in fact, with the ‘qustion’ on current curricula: had it changed from my day? Im PAYING for it now, wtf are you shovelling into the dear darlings heads today?
– anything on ALL aspects of car purchase?
– what do you do with an infant that WILL N-O-T STOP CRYING?
– what are you basic legal rights in canukistan?
– etc etc etc
after 40 years, high school still dwells and dwells and dwells on shakespeare’s use of iambic pentameter between detailed analysis of greek mythology and now some geometry useless to all but
well then warwick, if you havent read the work then you are commenting from a position of ignorance.
plain and simple.
how often do you engage in that practice?
do you hire the services of a medical professional, accountant, mechanic who hasnt read extensively on the topic or is ‘opinion’ sufficient basis in your ‘opinionated’ mind?
“I once studied to become a member of the UCC before I became a Christian…”
LOL,
Wonder if my secular anglican church will print the letter I sent to them?
I hear the UCC is banning bottled water I can just see christ being nailed to the cross ‘for our sins’ with his last breath saying I hope no one buys bottled water…
Parts of the bible the UCC is not allowed to read.
# Ge 18:16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33 19:1
# Ge 19:2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24
# Ge 19:25,26,27,28,29
# Le 18:22 20:13
# De 23:17,18 29:23
# Jud 19:22,23,24
# 1Ki 14:22,23,24 15:11,12 22:45,46
# Isa 1:9,10 3:9
# Jer 23:11,12,13,14
# Eze 16:49,50
# Mt 10:14,15
# Ro 1:21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32
# 1Co 6:9,10,11,17,18,19 10:6,7,8
# Col 3:5,6
# 2Pe 2:6
# Jude 1:7,8
# Re 21:8,27 22:15
Back to the topic:
Doesn’t the UCC have to worry about losing its tax exempt status by endorsing a specific political party? I thought the rules were quit clear in this regard. What would the tone of the article be it this was a Evangelical church minister endoresing the Conservative party? Can you say double standard?
Jesus wouldnt be a memeber of any political party….he wouldnt see the point…render unto ceaser etc etc
As for whether he would be a member of the UCC….I have commented on this before….he certainly could belong, but so could budha, ghandi, mohammed, jim jones, yehudi menouin….it doesnt matter there is no way NOT to belong to the United Church.
Would he feel comfortable with the UCC….some of it, yes, some of it lots of it, I have my doubts.
The UCC is reaping what it has sewn and slowly disappearing into irrelevency….and this from someone who was raised in the UCC. It is like what happened to Eatons….it just doesnt stand for anything anymore, or what it does stand for is irrelevant to its constituency. Natural order of things as we wipe our eyes as the UCC sinks slowly under the wave of the icean of indifference it created for itself…..
The brass at UCC HQ practice/use takkiya, aka libbrish,artful lying, dissembling, double-talk, etc. …-
United Church backs off plan to divest from Israel
Mary Vallis, National Post
Published: Friday, August 18, 2006
THUNDER BAY – Faced with a proposal that would have seen the United Church of Canada’s members divest from companies involved in the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, the Church last night approved a policy that encourages investment only in “peaceful pursuits. …-
http://www.paulding.net/bin/url.cgi/13378.8
Well, it’s nearly three hours since my post concerning ok4ua’s warped ideas about observant Christians. (Actually, in keeping with this thread, Jesus was never a Christian. But if he were, he’d belong to an observant church–exit, stage LEFT, the UCC a few decades ago.)
So, ok4ua, I’m calling you-ou-ou-ou-ou-ou-ou!
Jesus was a Jew. Religion has some good theories. It’s a philosophy written by mostly men not any God. I have no use for religion in my life. I have beliefs based on my experience. I believ in truth and equality.You believ the more money you have the more justice you can buy. The rich live a very priviledged sheltered life. Some believ their wealth is “god given” and that god favours them. That’s a crock. That is their way of justifying their position in life. And they want to keep that life. Some were robber barons some are corrupt. A lot had good timing, being at the right place at the right time and chance. Not any God………..People like to be born again because they are ashamed of their past. This helps heal their concience. Who forgives them? The preacher at the pew? God has nothing to do with it.
SASK has the most volunteers and voluteer hours in Canada for a small population. What about Telemiracle? I voluteered on a committee for close to 4 years. Look that up in your funk n wagnel. We are also very generous with donations to charities.
I said 09:38 was my last contribution, but now must turn myself into a liar. (No, I’m not a Liberal … nor a Conservative, nor even an NDPer for that matter.)
Lookout (at 10:04) and RobertJ (at 11:42) are unhappy with the results of current education. I join them. BUT, if anyone can invent another way of providing “the tools one needs to think, to assess, and to make decisions based not on prejudice, hearsay, or media-predigested ‘facts,’ but on knowledge” short of education, bottle it.
I do suggest that the indicated product of education (factual, objective thought and decisionmaking) is as unassailable as motherhood, unless you seek a state of worker bees and rote voters. And if the process is not producing the product, change the blasted process. That’s what politics is all about, from local to federal level.
ok4ua:
“I have no use for religion in my life. I have beliefs based on my experience”
Maybe you might want to actually try researching religious thought with an open mind, not just the athiestic talking points you clearly have used as the basis of your OPINIONS. You might find something of value there. As it stands every one of your comments displays your glarring lack of actual knowledge about the subject.
“You believe the more money you have the more justice you can buy. The rich live a very priviledged sheltered life”
What’s with your anti-capitalist, anti-rich bigotry? I mean I know that the Rich, and Christians are among the few social groups that seem absent from protection of bigotry. I can only suspect from your comments prejudice has some deeply rooted causes. One of the main problems with socialism is that it is usually controlled by the “rich live a very priviledged sheltered life”. As is often the case with socialism, the higher ups, end up with all the money/power, and use it to lord over the very workers they have sworn to protect and serve.
David Brown posts: Religions exist only in peoples minds, neurological synapse, nothing more than that.
That takes a great deal of faith in scientism David. And that faith, your secular religion, simply has a different god i.e. you own “reason” or “mind”.
I find it amusing that the people who spend the most nervous energy struggling with the concept of God are athiests — synapses blazing with rage.
What an odd, comfortless and ultimately lonely religion… even if it is just in your own head.
Now, let us sing that old favorite,
Hymn # 666 in the Scientism Hymnal:
GUIDE ME, O THOU GREAT IMMANUEL
(loosely adapted from the Welsh of W.Williams, 1745 – Arglwydd arwaintrwy’r anialsch)
TUNE – ST OSMUND 87.87.87
Guide me, O Thou Great Immanuel,
Kant you lead me through this land.
I believe in ME ALMIGHTY
When I’m gone who gives a damn.
Bread of Hegel, Bread of Karl
Feed me till I want not more,
Feed me ti..ill I… want no more.
Thanks David. We want no more.
However, perhaps the UCC are interested for their next hymnal revision.
Seems like you athiests, the Dippers and the UCC have been using the same song sheets for a while now.
Ignoramus what the hell are you talking about? And Ryan you’re going to make me blush. All this flattery.
I know some well off NDPers also. You guys don’t have a corner on that market.
“He was an embittered atheist, the sort of atheist who does not so much disbelieve in God as personally dislike Him.”~ George Orwell
“The rich live a very priviledged sheltered life.
ok4ua
By this very statement, I doubt you have money, nor that you ever will. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
If you have an bad attitude with money, soon you lose your money… if you have a bad attitude without money, you will never get money.
Actually, by all studies, the rich have more experiences, live longer and are actually healthier than those that are poor. I doubt the rich live sheltered existences. They are quite worldly…. and quite generous… recent cases in point, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.
The rich are much, much more generous than the people that rail against them.
For someone who disbelieves the concept of God, you sure do believe in the Biblical principle of, “The love of money is the root of all evil.”
“The rich live a very priviledged sheltered life.
ok4ua
By this very statement, I doubt you have money, nor that you ever will. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
If you have an bad attitude with money, soon you lose your money… if you have a bad attitude without money, you will never get money.
Actually, by all studies, the rich have more experiences, live longer and are actually healthier than those that are poor. I doubt the rich live sheltered existences. They are quite worldly…. and quite generous… recent cases in point, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.
The rich are much, much more generous than the people that rail against them.
And finally, the rich are usually men and women of God. This is not a coincidence.
For someone who disbelieves the concept of God, you sure seem to believe in the Biblical principle of, “The love of money is the root of all evil.”
Addressing the crowd who were about to stone the prostitute, Jesus said: “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!”
An old crone burst out of the crowd, ran over to the hooker, and smashed a rock in her face!
Jesus said: “Mother!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
I never comment on people’s religious beliefs.
Fortunately, we’re talking about the United Church so there are none to concern myself with here.
There certainly seems to be something underway in the conservative ridings across Canada. Namely those of Garth Turner, James Moore, Gerald Keddy, and now Myron Thompson (AB). Who’s next.
Another candidate has emerged for the Conservative leadership of Alberta to determine the upcoming Premier of AB. Some might argue that this is calculated to split the vote on the right between Morton and Doerkson to gain a win on the first ballot for someone else, like say Dinning. Hmmm…. could this really happen? (Sarc on)
For those who cannot seem to separate religion from politics and are more concerned with religion/culture of that religion first rather than with the whole picture – then do go about things as you must.
If it makes someone feel somehow more morally/ethically superior to agnostics/athiests by slagging those who don’t fit into your religious acceptance, then you can hardly look to their support when it comes down to a vote. The question is -do you have the numbers.
“The other 90% pay the taxes that enable this 10% to live the high lifestyle.”
Oh, please – do some research. In 10 seconds flat I was able to copy the following directly from StatsCanada:
“The one-tenth of Canadian taxfilers who were in the highest earnings bracket provided more than one-half of the revenue from federal personal income tax in 2002, according to a new study. In addition, their share of the tax pie has been increasing since 1990.”
You’ve got it completely reversed: in truth, the wealthy subsidize the less wealthy. The old NDP thing of ‘eat the rich’ means they would soon be starving because they are incapable of being self-supporting. They are wealth consumers, not wealth creators.
The NDP would like fewer ‘rich people’ and would do so by taxing them into submission – the result would of course be the “equal sharing of misery” noted by Winston Churchill and exemplified in the former USSR and it’s puppet states.
Free the rich!
put yer hand up if yer a christian!
(RobertJ’s arms stay down)
put yer hand up if yer jewish, druze or muslim!!
(arms still down)
hands up all you buddists and confucians !!
(still RobertJ doesnt move)
all you hindus and mystics and wiccans and celts get those hands up!!
(RobertJ sits unmoving)
ok, zorostrians, greek paganists, neo-self inventors all of youse, up with the hand!!
(still nothing from RobertJ)
now finally all the atheists, agnostics and any other religion, git them hands up !!!
(at this point RobertJ is the only one with both arms still resting on the chair)
ROBERTJ wtf religion are you if any? yells the moderator.
RobertJ: I’m a usedtobe.
?
a usedtobe?
ya, as in used-to-be a certain denomination.
which one?
dont matter, I’m not that denomination any more.
so yer an atheist so why didnt you get yer hand up when that group was called forth?
because I am FAR FROM an atheist so dont try that process-of-elimination clap trap on me.
so youre saying you are not in any formal or informal religion of any type but you *are* a believer?
BINGO !!!
I’m a usedtobe.
ok4ua posted: “what the hell are you talking about?”
Precisely my point, ok4ua. Hell is what Brown was talking about. The hell of scientism which is, by every real measure, unscientific in its vaunting rejection of the faith of others.
True science can, by definition, make no judgement on faith. Faith and science deal with different aspects of reality and human experience. They are not in conflict as has been made clear by thinkers who address the issue in a truly logical fashion e.g. J.Polkingthorne (Oxford Physicist) http://garethphillips.blogspot.com/ or J. Pelikan (Yale Humanist).
Brown’s, as I pointed out, is simply another faith i.e. faith in oneself. This misplaced faith is at the root of the UCC pronouncements and Dipper political theory (sic).
Faith in oneself alone is the very definition of hell i.e. eternity contemplating oneself rather than the beatific vision.
I’m sorry you couldn’t understand the humorous play on a Welsh hymn tune connecting the unholy trinity of Kant, Hegel and Marx. That requires a modest exposure to the Western Tradition apart from a cursory acquaintance with post-Enlightenment rationalism and a mindless faith in scientism.
“To dispel the rumour, Nero substituted as culprits, and treated with the most extreme punishments, some people, popularly known as Christians, whose disgraceful activities were notorious. The originator of that name, Christus, had been executed when Tiberius was Emperor, by order of the procurator Pontius Pilatus. But the deadly cult, though checked for a time, was now breaking out again not only in Judea, the birthplace of this evil, but even throughout Rome, where all the nasty and disgusting ideas from all over the world pour in and find a ready following.”
Annals 15 : 44.
Posted by: one of the other greg’s at August 18, 2006 01:25 AM
I’m one of those “notorious Christians” you can see it in my name “HUNS RUPPRECHT”. Now I will just have to shine up my halo.
If Jesus were ruling, we wouldn’t NEED political parties. Seeing that we manage to mangle Christ with daily crucifixtions, it would appear that we all need redemption; including the despised tax collector.
Well if there is redemption for the despised tax collector, as Jesus called Matthew one of his disciples, perhaps there is still hope for the world.
But Jesus can’t rule because he is not powerful enough. Or perhaps he does rule, and He is thus the cause of all this mess.
From Johan in Canada, in the wee small hours of the morning: Hit it, Ol’ Blue Eyes…
“But Jesus can’t rule because he is not powerful enough. Or perhaps he does rule, and He is thus the cause of all this mess.”
Poor boy just doesn’t get it. “My kingdom,” said Jesus, “is not of this world.” Just a look from Jesus could knock you…into the next world.
He also made it clear–and we see evidence of it every minute of every day–that “the prince of this world” is not Him but Satan. Young Johan, try adding “evil” and “free will” to your world view and you may be surprised to discover that the author of “this mess,” as you quite accurately describe our world, is none other than you, my friend, and me, and every human being who has chosen to do evil rather than good.
BTW, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to know what you’re talking about, either. Read The Book.
Good Lord…one and a half days later and the tangential discussion is still on in this thread.
To get it straight, it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God (or Buddha or Mohammed or Bigfoot, for that matter)…can’t be done, unless you bring forward the entity itself. You may be able to line up a whole bunch of circumstantial evidence and conclude that He LIKELY does or doesn’t exist but that does not constitute a proof. Therefore, all those who claim ABSOLUTELY that he exists or doesn’t exist are simply displaying their lack of intelligence (or their laziness in commenting).
To be precise, you should be stating that you either BELIEVE He exists or that you DON’T BELIEVE he exists. And then this all boils down to…you’re all entitled to your own beliefs.
At least so long as you live in a free country…which is becoming questionable, but is the subject of other threads.
As for the topic of this thread, read Revelations…GOD states that he holds ALL churches in some “contempt” (for lack of a better word), so Jesus obviously wouldn’t belong to ANY denomination (there is only one true denomination anyway, the “church of GOD”) and he certainly wouldn’t belong to any political party (why would the King of all Kings belong to a worldly political party?).
When (or if) Jesus returns, members of the UCC will only hear Jesus say “I never knew you”.
Hassle, what would you say about faith? I don’t think anyone on this thread is trying to prove the existence of God.
You either have faith that He exists or you don’t.
And, BTW, if you have faith it’s not something to lord over others or be proud about. It’s a gift that you are eternally grateful for.
Thanks, batb. Your last two posts express my sentiments exactly and you were much more polite to young Johan–at least he sounds very young and uninformed–than I was about to be. Have a good day, Johan. (And maybe do some reading.)
Re the UCC and Jesus being a member. First of all, Jesus is the SUBJECT of Christian worship, so He couldn’t very well be a member of any church. (I know Kate’s question was rhetorical: good question, Kate!) Secondly, the UCC has quite effectively disowned Scripture, tradition, and reason, as well as stopped worshipping Christ: The UCC now worships human beings and their desires instead.
If the tally were taken on this thread, I think it’s been pretty well established that, despite faithful remnants, Jesus would give the institution of the UCC–“I don’t know you”–a pretty wide berth, though His love for the individuals within it remains steadfast and undivided.
BATB: I am equating faith with belief…therefore we are in agreement. Christianity is precisely centered around faith…GOD doesn’t want synchopants or frightened servants cowering under his almighty power which would result if GOD showed himself (proved his existence)…he wants faithful, righteous believers.
My bit about proving/disproving His existence was in response to DaveM’s (?) and others snide remarks and various rebuttals which seemed to try to justify their belief or his existence.
I was not “lording” any belief or suggesting anyone should…simply pointing out the fact that someone is lacking intelligence if they believe they can prove or disprove the existence of GOD (if they CAN, then they’re able to do something no one has been able to do for over 2000 years!). Live and let live…everyone’s entitled to their beliefs, right or wrong.
Free Al Gore DVDs.
The religious left is giving these away and still their churches are sooooo empty and the heating bills on their churches just keep going up.
Janet Allen, vice president of New York Interfaith Power & Light, reports the state group is distributing free DVDs of An Inconvenient Truth, the Al Gore documentary about global warming, to religious congregations.
The program is part of a national campaign to encourage congregations to view and discuss the movie Oct. 1 to 8.
Allen, a member of University United Methodist Church, works with the network that encourages religious congregations to reduce energy use. Congregations participate in its programs, including energy audits of their buildings.
The deadline to request the free DVD and study guide is Friday at theregenerationproject.org
The study guide, also available at eco-justice.org, includes questions about climate change as a moral issue and discusses why churches should be concerned about the issue
lookout: The UCC now worships human beings and their desires instead.
Precisely and concisely put, lookout.
That is why Jesus has a decreasing place in the UCC other than as a model, prophet or some sort of Arian “good guy”. This view of Jesus, by definition, is not the Christian Faith. It is actually more akin to Islam than to what the world has known as Christianity throughout its existence.
So, Kate’s question might better be: Is there still a place for Jesus Christ in the UCC?
As you point out, lookout, the evidence seems to be clear.
lookout: Thanks for the support…
Hassle, thanks for your clarifications: This is a long thread, and do difficult to keep everyone’s thoughts and opinions differentiated…
I wasn’t actually suggesting that you were lording anything over anybody; what I said was actually addressed to any reader thinking that Christians do lord their faith over non-believers. I probably should have been more specific!
Cheers and blessings!
Great discussion here. Amazing how Kate drops a line or 2 and the discussion is never ending…
For those that ‘doubt’ the very existence of Christ…those that continue to try to dispel historical evidence…check out the date.This is 2006. Beore the political correct did their work on trying to dispel the existence of Chist, we word say ‘2006 AD’ the year of the Lord, a reference to Christ.Who else in history impacted civilisation so much that the calender was adapted to their existence?
I appreciate your post vf. Many thanks and blessings.
“How about the whole hypocrisy of worshipping the Great God Marketplace while paying lip-service to the Christian God? If there is one message in Christianity, it is to be your brother’s keeper.”
Socialism has proved to be a miserable failure at taking care of people while capitalism has proved to bring wealth to the poor. No Christan would advocate worshipping capitalism but most of us recognize that, as Winston Churchill put it, is the worst form of government except for all the rest. Churches do a much better job at giving the poor a helping hand than any government program ever.
“There was nothing conservative about JC. He did not defend orthodoxy, he demolished it (healing on the Sabbath, praising the Good Samaritan as opposed to the rabbi who strictly observed the law by not risking defilement in helping a bleeding man on his way to the temple, etc.) He was a Jew who believed that the end of the world was imminent, and he wanted to recall the Hebrew religion from the orthodox formalism it had succumbed to. (What are the odds of him establishing a new religion or church – Christianity – under those circumstances? That was more St. Paul’s doing.)”
It’s true that Jesus did not defend orthodoxy but what he did was to try to push people back to the way they worshiped God before the legalists tood over. That sounds pretty conservative to me.
And by the way, Christians were well-established as being separate from the Judaism of the day long before the Apostle Paul came along. They didn’t keep kosher, circumcision was not a requirement, and the church was openly accepting non-Jews. Good works as a way of getting to heaven was out and loving God and loving people was firmly entrenched.
Finally, Jesus never said that the end of the world was imminent. He said that the “end of the age” was imminent and said that the sign of this would be the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem within the lifetime of people then living. We have fragments of the Bible containing that prophecy dating many years prior to the fulfillment of that prophecy. If there is anything proving that Jesus Christ was who he said he was, it would be that passage.
We’re talking about an imaginary person and who he would vote for.
We have far more contemporaneous documents proving that Jesus Christ walked on earth than we do that Julius Ceasar lived, Homer lived, and Alexander the Great lived.
There is no doubt that Jesus Christ was a real person. The question is whether he was who he said he was. As one who has witnessed and received many miracles (for example, I saw a friend last night who was one diagnosed with hepatitis C, suffered problems with it for years, and who who no longer has any sign of ever having the disease), I have no doubt at all. For those who don’t believe in today’s miracles, check out the prophecies — the Old Testament prophecies predicting events in the life of Jesus and the New Testament prophecy of Jesus predicting the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
If man is made in the image of “God”,god must be an idiot. Man made god in the image of a person that is not real. A fantasy.
Let’s talk about the religious “Right” Right??
I knew a lot of farm boys and girls that got sent to “Bible College”(Reform Shcool). It had the highest unwed mother rate anywhere. If the Girls were a little promiscuous they were sent to CWBC. If the boys knocked up a girl or two or were in drug rehab off CWBC they went. If a girl was young and pregnant she was sent across the line to get an abortion. That’s what I remember about the religious right. Hypicritical and phoney to the end. You go ahead and pat each other on the back and discuss your therories truth and god which none of you practice till you’re blue in the face. I grew up in Rural Sask where these things took place. I’m a great bullshitter myself so go on with your story I’m listening.
ok4ua: Hypicritical and phoney to the end.
Would that be a hippi who had learned to pretend to think critically?
I suppose this thread ends with the conclusion that Jesus, the Christ has little place in the institutions of our land (including the UCC/NDP) or in the hearts of many people in Canada.
It is sad that there are so many who are so angry and jaded that they see in the faith of others only a threat.
On a positive note, it is good to hear the joy, optimism and positive experiences of people such as Stingray: “As one who has witnessed and received many miracles”.
In the end, Jesus is the One for everyone — even those who reject him. His place in history is clear and undisputed by those who study. His place in culture is unparallelled and he is the object of worship of more people than any other in history or even today.
Jesus Christ is Bread for the starving world. However, the encounter with this Source begins with seeking forgivenss for our bitterness and hatred. Then we receive the grace to eat and be filled with the true Bread and so provide for others — isn’t that what the NDP/UCC say they want?
In the late 60’s, the UCC leadership officially made known it’s doctrine.
The UCC denies Christ’s virgin birth; that he is the Son of God; all of his miracles; and his resurrection. It also believes there are many paths to God, certainly not just through Christ. And like the merchants in the temple – the UCC promotes bingo, gambling and homosexual dances in it’s churches, in order to profit.
So, obviously the UCC does not qualify as a Christian assembly. And therefore neither does it qualify to speak on behalf of Christianity or Christ.
As to what the UCC is, is anybody’s guess. An NDP/socialist/gay lobby front organisation, is as good a guess as any.
I don’t believe any religion it’s all a crock but people have believed in lies before so what’s new. As I stated bull shitter myself but go on with your story I’m listening……….