(bumped to top due to continuing updates)
From Army.ca, a military message forum, reaction to media coverage over the government’s decision to return to previous traditions when honouring fallen soldiers;
Once again, I’m fed up and disgusted with the media and their “spinning” of non-issues into something more. Yet again, TV tonight is awash with “Conservatives won’t lower the flag” stories – presented with no background and with plenty of people saying what an “insult” it is to soldiers. They have no idea what soldiers think of this issue, yet are ready to jump to conclusions in an effort to speak for us.
To the media reading this (and I have no doubt you are): how much is enough? You have plenty of coverage of the coffins being put on the plane and I have no doubt you’ll have plenty of the funerals – invited or not. Get a grip. We are the Army; it is a sad reality that part of our job is to take casualties on behalf of Canadians and our elected political masters – of whatever stripe. Don’t denegrate that sacrifice with an unseemly and politically motivated display of spin designed to promote controversy and generate ratings. “Canada’s Iraq” indeed…
h/t Mark Collins in the comments. (Mark is also now blogging at Daimnation).
More from Chris Selley, who also agrees with the Conservative policy (and looks back at contrasting news coverage during WWI). No nation can fight a war wallowing in a state of perpetual mourning. The flag should fly high and defiantly.
(As an aside, this debate over the growing frequency of flag lowering is not new – I recall reading a few weeks ago an anecdote about a school flag being lowered on the occasion of the death of a janitor.)
Another comment from an army reservist;
As a member of the army reserve I am sick of the MSM�s facination with flag draped coffins. They are always ready to show the coffin but but there�s barely a mention (maybe one or 2 sentences)of the work done by the men in those coffins.
Journalists are scumbags who are too lazy & dumb to do anything of any value themselves so they have to achieve cheap fame by leeching off the triumphs or tragedies of others. They then justify being the town gossip by pretending everything they utter is in the public�s interest. � Yeah right. Running up to a plane to photograph coffins is in the public interest? geezuz!
What do you low-lifes in the press do for fun? Go down to the dog pound with some pop & chips and watch them euthanize strays?
If you want to register your objection to Craig Oliver’s nakedly political editorializing, you can do so here. If anyone has his personal email address, drop it in the comments.
Commentor ET points to a Globe and Mail message board, where Lew MacKenzie is fielding questions link;
MacKenzie asks readers – ‘We lost 27 killed in Bosnia/Croatia in the 90’s”…and no-one paid any attention…Same in the Sudan, Congo, Golan Heights – “absolutely no-one called for the flags to be lowered”.
He further comments “I’m glad to see the public paying attention for a change – particularly those who slashed the budget and personnel strengths during the same 90s'”
So- why didn’t the Liberals lower the Peace Tower flag before? And why did they reduce the capacity of the military to protect themselves and us?
That is -point two- the flag lowering, once, on the Peace Tower, for those four soldiers killed by US-Canadian error – was a deliberate partisan political tactic of Chretien. It had nothing to do with respect, but was actually disrespectful, for Chretien/the Liberals used those soldiers.
The flag should fly high until we lower it on Nov. 11th and honour all of our men & women in the armed forces. One of my coworkers brought the subject up with me yesterday and he really felt strongly about lowering the flag for the soldiers. He had no answer for me when I asked him if they did that in WWII? And if they did wouldn’t the flag be lowered every day?? And if it was, wouldn’t that be a bit ridiculous? We then got into a discussion of lowering the flag when RCMP officers are killed vs. soldiers. My thoughts were that RCMP officers don’t sign up for a job where they know their primary job is to shoot at other people whose primary job is to shoot at them.
Slightly off topic but…it was discussed several weeks back and I think it’s appropriate to bring it up again:
I’m making my voice heard in a small, visual gesture of support for the troops. I’ve purchased magnetic yellow ribbons for my cars. They are sold by the Royal Canadian Regiment Kit shop and have a small Canadian flag. http://www.thercrkitshop.com
While I agree with the sentiment behind lowering the flag it is an exercise that should be reserved for Chiefs of State. To continually have a flag at half mast for each and every casualty is just not a wise idea. The nation would be in a period of continual mourning. Save it. We will win and when we do we will have the time to grieve. The 11/11/11 approach is by far the best. I know, I have been to a lot of memorial services the past three years and I cannot be constantly reminded else I lose my focus and then maybe my life.
Ted, stop trying to confound opinion with facts!
If Big Brother wants us to see coffins, we’ll see them, if he doesn’t, we won’t. Unless those drat MSM show them to us anyway.
One of their own, Lisa LaFlamme, was imbedded with the military and has this to say about what, and how much the media reports.
It was about the devotion of those serving; note the tense is in the present…..what they actually do while they are there.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060413/laflamme_afghanistan_feature_060413/20060413?hub=WFive
“…Looking back on the treacherous operation, LaFlamme has but one regret.
“If there was a regret — I wish I could have told more stories. It’s that every day there are 10 stories I could have told, and you have to pick one,” she said.
LaFlamme said she would brave the unforgiving terrain all over again if she had the chance.
“I would do it again because I think there is an undertold story here. We report on the military, we report on the Department of National Defence in Ottawa, Canada’s role in peacekeeping. But we don’t tell the story of these guys and their devotion to the mission,” she said.”
Watching CBC last night reminded me once again what is so vile about that tribe of Liberals in Ottawa, including Paul Hunter and Ujal Dosanjh.
Probably 99.99 percent of Canadians would consider it a thoroughly disgusting act to make political hay out of dead soldiers and their grieving families. Not the Liberals or the CBC, though; they were practically rubbing their hands together at what they obviously — vocally — considered to be a major mis-step by Harper.
Of course, it wasn’t a mis-step at all, but the correct decision. The prurient pandering of the CBC-Libs notwithstanding, the deaths of soldiers are a built-in part of the job they do, a tragic part of the normal course of events. Did our flag fly at half-mast throughout our involvement in WW II?
Canadian soldiers might continue to give their lives in the next ten years fighting terrorists. The Liberals would have our nation’s flag perpetually at half mast, because…they love our country so much? No, it’s their traditional moral corruption and pandering for power, writ ugly. Perhaps their next election slogan should be “Canada: where our flag only goes halfway up the pole.”
Fly the flag high for those Canadian soldiers, who didn’t live at half mast but stood tall for this country. And every time you see a Liberal sensing a political opportunity in a soldier’s death, make sure you never, ever forget it.
My brother was killed while on duty in the Canadian military and not a flag was lowered, nor did I expect one to be. I expected the same respect for him, as those that fought in all our wars, or gave their life in peace time, as he did.
The MSM view the flag lowering issue as a princess Diana maudlin slobber fest, and a shot at Harper all rolled up in one.
The MSM is interested in using the images of our brave warriors to sell newspapers and advertising and scorn the war effort, thereby in their thinking, harming Canada’s duly elected priminister.
That’s why we never hear, nor see the positive progress of any soldiers carrying out their successful missions. Only the bomb a day, grating defeatist left attitude.
This is clear payback for the indignity perceived by our press hacks for cuts to their favored scrum yell-apallooza, preferred by their tossed-on-their-ear, say-nothing liberal masters. The MSM disrespects our fallen soldiers, who payed the ultimate price for our freedom, only to score their “gotcha” slam dunk.
“Do you love Canada”
Framed in the same context of this “question”, by the press gallery during the last election the MSM shows once again, with their new manufactured controversy to be the errand boy of the left liberal corrupt elites.
The Canadian MSM are the lowest of dirt bags , who would rather contrive a crisis that further divides Canadians for the good of their ratings.
If that has to happen on the backs of the Canadian families during their grief process, so be it.
Harper should make this clear and put the onus back on The MSM to prove now that they are not partisan old fossils willing to score the cheapest points in the lowest possible manner!
Shame on Craig Oliver and CTV, while Canada and our allies fight an evil despicible enemy in Afganistan all that the MSM sees or wants to comment on is their own petty personal battle with our duly elected government.
IMHO, (I hope some in the military may agree), the problem with giving liberty, is that for a nation and its people to be free, liberty must be taken. The fight to be free, if won, can forge the desire to be free into reality.
I have hope for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan and great love and respect for our own young soldiers who always stand with those who will fight to be free.
I think the press and the left will not help in this fight, even here at home because it is much easier not to AND because they believe we have a done deal and we are safe.
The MSM do not always report all the facts and they saddle us all with the burden of their well intentioned editorial decisions (from Iraq, to the softwood war, to the WTC, to the UN, to the cartoon murders, to the Indian road blocks).
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Take the fight to our enemies.
Regarding the flag at half mast and media access to military familys, I think whatever the military leaders say, is the way it should be.
All Parliament has to do is listen.
A great post from Angry, “If you have to ask…”, in which the rules governing Leninists at Rabble.ca who want Canadian soldiers killed are discussed.
http://www.stevejanke.com/archives/173584.php
Mark
Ottawa
First, condolences to the families of the fallen soldiers. Second, does any one know of a western liberal who, once the first shot was fired in the war on terror, was not resolved to be defeated?
My reading of General MacKenzie’s comments in the G&M are that, while he doesn’t necessarily dispute the banning of media from Trenton today, he feels it is a PR mistake that the Opposition will exploit. I believe strongly that the families are entitled to this private time to express their grief without some reporter shoving a mike in their face. BTW, for those who haven’t been to CFB Trenton, it is a fairly wide open area, especially the runway and air movements unit, (a four foot fence is all that separates outside from runway area)where presumably the bodies of our fallen soldiers will arive. There will be plenty of vantage points; the press will get an opportunity then and at the funerals to do a decent job of coverage. I sometimes wonder if the press thinks they are the news.
CBC – Canada has lost 15 soldiers and a diplomat in Afghanistan since 2002.
CTV – A total of 15 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have died since 2002, when Canada first became involved in Afghanistan following the ouster of the hard-line Taliban regime.
Globe and Mail – In total, 15 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have died since 2002, when Canada first became involved in the country in 2002. Most of Canada’s 2,300 troops in Afghanistan are based in Kandahar, where they have taken over security from U.S. forces.
Globe and Mail, don’t you know how to follow the protocol? It’s always to be the concluding sentence!
Gen. Lews MacKenzie is patiently and very intelligently responding to comments on the Globe and Mail discussion board. What is coming to light are, first, the ignorance of the Canadian public about protocol and reality; and second, the blatant propagandic tactics of the Liberals.
First – MacKenzie points out, that we are only referring to the flag on the Peace Tower. It is lowered on Nov 11th to refer to ALL lives lost in combat. BUT – most Canadians don’t know that the flag, for each death, IS lowered BOTH at National Defence headquarters in Ottawa AND at the CF base(s) where the soliders were stationed AND in the towns where the soldiers had an association. So- all we are talking about is ONE flag – the Peace Tower flag.
The discussion is showing that most Canadians don’t know these facts – and – the MSM is certainly not educating them.
MacKenzie asks readers – ‘We lost 27 killed in Bosnia/Croatia in the 90’s”…and no-one paid any attention…Same in the Sudan, Congo, Golan Heights – “absolutely no-one called for the flags to be lowered”.
He further comments “I’m glad to see the public paying attention for a change – particularly those who slashed the budget and personnel strengths during the same 90s'”
So- why didn’t the Liberals lower the Peace Tower flag before? And why did they reduce the capacity of the military to protect themselves and us?
That is -point two- the flag lowering, once, on the Peace Tower, for those four soldiers killed by US-Canadian error – was a deliberate partisan political tactic of Chretien. It had nothing to do with respect, but was actually disrespectful, for Chretien/the Liberals used those soldiers.
Chretien used it to bolster anti-Americanism in Canada, which is a key tactic, always, in his and the Liberal Party’s maintenance of power. Remember, Chretien refused to go into Iraq, not because he rejected WMD argument or because he supports the UN (he’s not interested in either), but because he has financial ties with oil, with his buddy Chirac, who supported and helped arm, Hussein.
But, the MSM – which moved over the past generation into a role as the propaganda arm of the Liberal Party – is doing anything it can, to attack Harper. It’s quite incredible to see the relentless attacks – from what he wears, how he treats his children, to his mode of governance, to …anything and everything.
This is a copy of the e-mail I sent through to Mr. Craig Oliver. It is titles “IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU !!!!!!!!!!
Mr. Craig Oliver,
I would like to remind you that the tragic death of 4 Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan over the weekend is the news story. The federal government�s media ban of the return of the bodies of the 4 soldiers to Canadian soil is not the story. This is not about you, this is about showing the respect that is due to the families of these 4 soldiers who have suffered a great loss, and who should be allowed to welcome back the bodies of their loved ones in private. These families have enough to deal with at this moment and they do not need to have some twit with a microphone or video camera asking them how they feel, or whether they still support Canada�s mission in Afghanistan. These families need to be allowed to grieve privately rather than being used as a piece of propaganda to fit into whatever agenda CTV News is trying to push this week.
To be honest CTV News� coverage of this tragedy since Sunday morning when it was announced has been shameful. From leading off Question Period with Ujjah Dosanjh smugly calling for another debate about the mission in Afghanistan to the media frenzy around the families of the 4 fallen soldiers, the coverage of this tragedy bordered on criminal. My question regarding Mr. Dosanjh is did you have to call him to be on Question Period or did he show up at your Vancouver studio at the crack of dawn to ensure he could get his comments on air? There was no respect shown to the families of the fallen soldiers to be allowed to work through their grief in private, but instead they were assaulted by the media who wanted to know whether they still supported Canada�s mission in Afghanistan. This flap over the media ban at CFB Trenton is just an extension of this lack of respect for these soldiers and their families.
If you wants to win my support for being allowed to cover the return of our fallen soldiers to Canada, then you should stop acting like a rabid dog and show some constraint in situations like this. Announce the names of the soldiers lost and the details on how the soldiers were killed, but impose a temporary blackout regarding the families until the bodies of the slain have arrived back on Canadian soil. This will allow for the families to somewhat recover from the shock of the loss, as well as let to them come to terms about how that person died. The news story is about the soldier(s) losing their lives in a combat zone, it�s not about seeing a family member break down after hearing the news that their son/daughter/husband/wife is dead. Only when all of you in the media remember that fact will I spend any effort to try to convince the government to change this policy.
Regards,
Kerry D. Barton
Cal, RE: CTV, CBC, and G&M.
“Canada has lost 15 soldiers and a diplomat in Afghanistan since 2002.” and “A total of 15 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have died since 2002”.
Those words report these men as lost or maybe died of natural causes. :0(
I think a more correct report would say how many of these Canadians were killed.
“I think a more correct report would say how many of these Canadians were killed.”
That may be true but my point was that the big 3 were all concluding their reports the same re-phrased sentence.
It’s a phrase the CBC uses regularly when reporting about the war.
Any guesses about why they do it?
The flag flap and the MSM coverage reminds me of the media in the US covering New Orleans after the hurricane. They wandered around the streets trying to find people who would “Blame Bush” for the problems, but couldn’t find anyone willing to do so (despite attempts to lead them to that conclusion). At Army.ca forums, I’ve seen overwhelming support for the decision to NOT lower the flag, at CFCN.ca the poll shows 50% saying don’t lower the flag (or do so only on Nov. 11th). But the MSM coverage shows only those who are angry with the goovernment – hmmm could it be the media have decided that this will be the issue to get their revenge on Harper for shutting them out.
TY Kelly D. Barton for your emphasis on the mourning families vrs the “rights” of the press and public. Mr Dinning’s words to the press were dignified and moving, as he fought back tears to say how proud he is of his fallen son. It reduced me to tears and made me ashamed for all those who wish to exploit this loss for their own reasons, regardless of their views of our presence in Afghanistan. I served in the CF for 18 years and have the greatest of respect for these young Canadians and thank God for their dutiful response to the state of war that presently exists between the West, moderate Islam and the Islamofascists who have no problem killing indiscriminately. Shame on those who, like Mr Dosanj, irresponsibly use hot button phrases like “Bush’s war.” He and others constantly expoloit the press ignorance of military matters. As my first year history prof at RMC once said, “research to most of the press means picking up the phone at best.” I wish they would act in a more professional and ethical manner. By all means present the news, all of it, rather than how to further your career. That is the essence of professinalism.
You did a real nice job, Kelly;your comments encourage me that Canadians of good conscience can truly discuss this issue with the families of the fallen uppermost in their minds.
If you want another link for an update, Kate, Stephen Taylor has a very good posting up about the Anti-Bush crowd using this to bash Mr. Harper.
http://www.stephentaylor.ca
So, the Liberals broke an 80 year tradition and lowered the Peace Tower flag ONCE for the four soldiers killed in the friendly fire in 2002. They did not lower it in November 2005 for the fallen soldier which is a return to protocol.
Where was the media outrage then???? NaDa – not against inconsistent lying Liberals who only do things for political purposes or to satisfy the media’s lust for sound bites and photo ops over substance or facts or news we need.
Flags on the Defence buildings, at bases, in the hometowns of the soldiers and their bases are lowered. Did the media report this????
It is ONE flag – on the Peace Tower that flies strong and free according to protocol. The media want to see if they can bend and break the Conservatives and then call them Flip Floppers.
It is all about the media – nothing about the soldiers and Canadians. This is the most disgusting proof that this country is controlled by slimey propagandists with their own pwersonal agendas. I am sickened. Craig Oliver and the rest should be reported to whom??? The Liberals appointed the heads of all of the reporting agencies.
What can we do to alert the Canadians who do not read Blogs and get the truth to the fact that they are being played as pawns in a dangerous and destructive political game that nearly destroyed our country under the Liberals.
Anybody????
the only debate we should have is about 25 years of totally ignoring our military, starving them for funds and destrying their morale.
That’s is 100% the fault of the Lieberal party and the NDP – they should be embarassed to be talking about flahgs, about honour, about sacrifice, about service, about patriotism.
They and th MSM make me sick to my stomach.
That post before about a soldier calling into a talk show – show us the proper respect by buying the proper equipment.
The Lieberal and NDP crocidile tears will be seen for what they are: crass political opportunism on the graves of Canadian heroes.
Canadians will not forget these traitors
I just heard two political commentators (CPC & NDP) agree that the policy to revert to the long-standing tradition of NOT lowering the Peace Tower flag was brought in by LIBERAL Minister of Defence Bill Graham in October 2005.
I have not yet been able to verify this. But if true, it means that Dosanjh’s hypocrisy has sunk to even lower depths.
In my view, this is not about respect for the soldiers; it’s about the power of the media as First-In-Line articulators of The Canadian Identity. I’m not sure if I can explain this, but, I’ll try.
As Gen. MacKenzie has pointed out and as can be seen in the questions to him in the G&M discussion, most Canadians are ignorant of the tradition and protocol of Peace Tower flag lowering (only on Nov.11) and most are completely ignorant that the ‘flag-lowering’ being referred to is ONLY, ONLY to the Peace Tower flag. The Ottawa National Defense Headquarter’s Canadian flag is lowered for EACH death; the military base(s) flags are lowered; the city/town/province flags may be lowered. We are only talking about ONE flag. One. Most Canadians don’t realize this.
And – the MSM doesn’t educate them about these facts. One flag – but the others, at important sites elsewhere, ARE lowered.
And, most Canadians aren’t aware that the ONLY time that Peace Tower flag was lowered, was by Chretien’s orders, for ONE incident – the erroneous bombing in Afghanistan – an error due to both sides (Canadians/Americans). Did Chretien, the Liberals ever lower the flag before? Or since? Never. Once. Why?
Because those four soldiers were being used, blatantly used, by Chretien/Liberals for political partisan purposes. He wanted to keep Canada out of Iraq, for his own alliances with oil, Chirac, and Hussein. And, anti-Americanism is a major platform in the Liberal strategy, because, they don’t have any Canadian identity, other than being ‘not-American’.
The MSM? These people have been educated for a generation in the Trudeau-Liberal ideology of anti-Americanism and international isolationism.
They are almost all, Liberals, by default. They don’t know any other way to think. They certainly don’t have the skills to critically analyze their views.
They consider the Liberal Party as the Natural Governing Party. There is no other party. Any other parties, such as the NDP, the Bloc, are all variations of the Liberals (indeed, there’s talk of an NDP-Liberal merger!). The fact that the CPC won this time, is shocking to the MSM. It’s a ‘glitch’ in reality. Like having a snowfall in June. The view is – it’s a glitch, it will melt rapidly, and Canada will go back to its default position: The Liberal Party.
The MSM are busy, therefore, with an endless fascination about the New King of the Liberals. And, they are worried that the CPC don’t seem to realize that they are, by natural laws, merely a snowstorm in June. They must accept Nature and melt and disappear. The MSM are worried that the CPC doesn’t seem to acknowledge this Natural Law..and are busy doing ‘odd things’.
So- the MSM are endlessly focusing on all CPC as a ‘fault era’; a glitch, a problem to be gotten rid of. Any and everything, therefore, is No Good.
Everything must be criticized. Naturally, the CPC will be defined as ‘what Canada is Not’ – and that means only One Thing- anti Americanism.
Canada has no other identity, except that it is ‘not American’.
The MSM, who are Liberals by training, by university education, by the safe haven of their careers, funded by the gov’t….see the CPC as ‘unnatural’.
This incident, about the flag, has very little to do with the soldiers. Harper is far more concerned and aware of the soldiers and their rights than any Liberal or MSM. It’s about the ‘unjustness’ of the CPC being in power, and about their making decisions about anything – for, as a June snowstorm – they have no rights to make any decisions and only one duty – to melt. That’s the agenda of the MSM – meltdown the CPC and get Life in Canada Back To Normal – i.e., to the Liberals and our Platonic Cave.
This is so infuriating!
I just watched some CBC news coverage of this issue and I’m so mad I almost can’t speak right now. I hear these comments from “average Canadians” regarding this issue and I want to pull out my hair. They know next to nothing about the issue and are responding completely based on the misleading information provided to them by these sneeky bastards.
The fool in the MSM are so caught up in their own sense of self-importance its rediculous! Something must be done, I can’t figgin take this crap anymore!
Am I now to understand that the emminent Ujal Dosanjh is portraying himself and the LPC as defenders of the Canadian Forces??
Is this not the same Liberal MP who appeared on Question Period a few months back to defend a LPC ad (or non-ad as the case may be) which implied the Canadian Forces would soon be on the streets in Canadian cities??
While I have been offline for the past few months, I failed to realize the seismic shift in canadian politics which has resulted in the LPC becoming the defenders of all things CF.
I am soooo confused!!
Syncro
Well I couldn’t resist and had to give my two-cents. Being a soldier, serving in Afghanistan right now (38 celsius today), working for an American General (that is right ladies and gentlemen, currently the Canadian General takes orders from an American under Operation ENDURING FREEDOM — we will be transitioning to NATO later this summer) the flag issue and meeting the caskets has forced me to say something.
When I left my family in February from Edmonton to leave for the 9 months that I will be serving here, I wouldn’t let my wife and kids come into the hall where we were departing from. The reason that I wouldn’t let them come in was because we didn’t want to be exposed to the media taking pictures and asking how everyone felt (don’t have to be a genius to know that the crying kids or crying wife might just be a tad upset, don’t you know). Just what we all wanted was our last moments together while media hung around.
And I would suggest that that is the same thing for the families who must now deal with the reality that someone very important to them has died or been killed. I would scream bloody murder if the media tried to interfere if something were to happen to me and while my family was trying to adjust to this, having media all over the place, trying to report the news [what in the hell do they think that they will learn? Everyone is upset? Or that my wife is pissed at the government for sending the army to Afghanistan?].
The irony is that the same media and political party(s) that want to make hay over these issues are the same ones who didn’t report on the other starving the military. [as an aside, I saw a news item where the Toronto Star is trying to play up a conflict between the new Minister and the Gen Hillier over which things the military should procure (Hercules aircraft versus C-17 Globemasters). I’ll give everyone one guess who DIDN’T attempt to fix either the strategic (getting us and our stuff into Kandahar) or the tactical (getting our stuff around the country) lift problems that we currently have or failed to report on the fact that the military actually needed both capabilities)] Kind of moronic if you ask me.
Canadian soldiers are very proud to serve our country, even while our families suffer from our absence. We know and understand the military traditions and the risks that come with our service. We are quite happy to get our campaign medals for our service overseas and will all stand to attention on November 11 as we remember ALL OF THOSE soldiers who gave the ultimate sacrifice for their country. We see and value these sacrifices equally and while some of the deaths that will occur here will be ‘close to home’ because they are friends and acquaintances of those serving, we want the sacrifices (all them recognized the same). For not to will do a disservice to those came before.
What we want is the support from the citizens of our country and the resources from the governments that they elect to allow us to do our job in the most professional and effective way possible. And not be paid the insult of being a political pawn for any party or individual. We serve all of Canada, and not one party.
EdtheHun
“And, most Canadians aren’t aware that the ONLY time that Peace Tower flag was lowered, was by Chretien’s orders, for ONE incident – the erroneous bombing in Afghanistan – an error due to both sides (Canadians/Americans). Did Chretien, the Liberals ever lower the flag before? Or since? Never. Once. Why?”
Actually ET, if you check the half-staff log at the Cdn Heritage Ministry’s website, the Peace Tower flag HAS been lowered for several fallen soldiers in Afgan; in fact, all but one that was killed there, as well as the sailor that died in the submarine fire.
But I completely agree with you about the deplorable politics being played on this issue. There is no question in my mind that Chretien began the practice with the fallen four from friendly fire in order to poke a stick in the Americans’ eye.
I support the return to the old practice. Our military was built on tradition and it is important for us to respect that tradition.
Had we lowered the PT flag for every fatality during WWI or WWII, it would have beeen at half-staff every four hours…in other words, pretty much permanently for 11 years.
Well now , seems like Canada Free Press is fixin to go postal over Harper like the American MSM did over Bush.
,
Cal, re; “Any guesses about why they do it?”.
Here is a link to what Eason Jorden, who was then chief news executive at CNN, wrote in the NYT about what CNN would NOT report about Iraq under the control of Saddam Hussein.
Blackmail and fear did play a part in his explanation and justification of CNNs’ dubious policies.
It is from April 11, 2003 and is called “The News We Kept To Ourselves”
http://essaysfromexodus.scripting.com/stories/storyReader$1991
There is a great way to respect the troops . . . the wives of soldiers from Winnipeg are starting a “Wear Red on Friday” Campaign.
So spread the word, wear something red every Friday and make a visual statement on the Home Front that tells the troops at the pointy of the stick on the War Front that we respect them, we think about them, we thank them.
Common Canada, we love a challenge.
Ujjual Dosanjh (good Canadian name) having the gall to tell us what is Canadian and what is ‘UnCanadian.” I’m tired of people not born here, having no idea what our pre-Liberal-revisionist culture and history is, informing us as to what we are. What have they done to earn that right other than migrate here? Same goes for comrade Olivia Chow.
‘American style’ is another Liberal insult. Not so much to Americans, but to Canadians. Are these Liberals so unsure of our identity? Or are they simply fermenting a culture of hate?
Turkey necked Oliver and dough boy Duffy – can someone retire these antiques of the Trudeau era?
Surprisingly though, the Toronto Star’s editorial board is supporting Harper. Even though their moonbat journalists and reporters are not.
It doesnt take much imagination to think of the flag being stuck at half mast for the duration of the second world war.
It would echo of defeat not triumph, shame not pride.
The country’s pride is ahead of individuals, the army’s pride is ahead of individual acts of bravery or tragedy.
The MSN continues on their own spin.
Ban CBCpravda.
The only value to watching MSM coverage is to compare truth with partisan fiction.
There is no longer any concern with context. The quest to discover truth is no longer important, I guess that makes sense in a relativistic world where there is no real truth.
The “truth” the MSM is selling is just as valid as the actual truth. In the minds of the partisan hacks in the media their truth ,even though untrue, is more valuable because it promotes an important politcal agenda. Thiers
Some things just shouldn’t be commented upon by those who aren’t there…
I think if the families of the fallen have any issues with these decisions, they will voice them, and be addressed as they arise…
The rest of us should simply tip our hats for the boys and girls abroad, and let them know we are with with them in spirit, if not in body.
It’s galling to even acknowledge Oliver over such as this… gives him fuel.
As I’ve said earlier in this post I’m with Harper and the CPC on flying the flag at half mast on Rememberance Day only.
However, as I said much earlier, Harper’s undoing will be his inability to deal effectively with the MSM. LIke it or not that’s just a plain fact. A wiser person would take the bias and games the MSM plays and work with it to their advantage.
He may loath them but unless he figures out a way to deal with them his political future is over.
Even some lefties have common sense and an appreciation of what our terrific soldiers are doing in Afghanistan. As the email ends, God Bless Canada. Amen. Cheers.
——————————-
April 25, 2006 � Yesterday, I received an email from a regular correspondent. I cannot identify him, but I can tell you that he is (or has been) a member from the Canadian Armed Forces, he is in the West, and he always has a noteworthy comment to make. He is not a gung-ho, everything-the-military-does-is-fine kind of fellow, either. He is fair-minded and decent. I admire him.
He sent me this note, in response to my short posting about the tragic deaths of four of our men in Afghanistan. It speaks for itself.
…
Dear Warren,
Somebody killed my friend this weekend. Corporal Randy Payne served at the same base as me. He was a military policeman. He leaves behind a wife and two wonderful kids, aged 7 and 5.
Randy was a fine soldier, a friendly man, and a proud and loving father and husband. I’ll miss him. My wife and I are thinking constantly of his wife and kids. My wife spoke with his wife today and Mrs. Payne and her kids are flying to Ontario tomorrow for the horrendous tasks of meeting Randy’s casket, grieving with family members, and saying goodbye to Randy.
You know, the people who killed Randy are the same people who fire rockets at school playgrounds and shoot teachers in front of their pupils. They’re the same people who beat women for nothing more than revealing their faces in public. It is right to fight these fanatics and I’m proud that Canada is doing its part. That doesn’t change the fact that my friend is dead and his family is now dealing with unbearable grief, but it at least gives a partial answer to the question “why?”.
Thank you for your post on this subject.
God bless Canada.
http://www.warrenkinsella.com/musings.htm
http://www.voy.com/178771/3254.html
Blogwell:
As Mark Twain once remarked, reading his obituary:
“The news of my demise, is greatly exaggerated.”
some powerful words from EdtheHun @ 2.29 pm
all the best over there Ed.
so many people (Libs included) have been saying that the conserves will be in for at least 6 years… I hope so.
It may be that long before the army feels like an army again… and not too soon for us.
Thanks for the clarification, Bruce. As you say, the point remains – the lowering of the Peace Tower flag was a political, and only a political, act by Chretien. It had nothing to do with respect for the soldiers or for the military (and the Liberal’s refusal to fund the military and provide them with proper equipment showed their actual indifference and disrespect for the military).
Blogwell, one has to ask if the media restriction on meeting the coffins is even part of the MSM-Harper riff.
It appears the media would like us to think that it is but it may be something else entirely.
I’d like to ask someone the question if the media ban has more to do with finally enforcing an existing policy, or if it’s a policy that has been implemented because of a request from the military or the families.
It seems rather an odd fight for Mr. Harper to pick without cause.
Reaction by those directly concerned.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,42550.0/all.html
Mark
Ottawa
Have the “grief counsellors” sprung into action?
This flag-lowering is kinda ghoulish — sorta like those sickening “road side shrines” at the site of fatal accidets, esp. ghoulish when a picture of the smiling victim is inluded.
Yeah, down with the wallowing! Down with victimism!
Will CBC pull a Ted Kopel and read the four names all day long?
appears Canada (and US) are not the only ones to have the flag tradition:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-staff
molar,
I can only hope that the MSM is not allowed visitation as a request from the grief stricken families.
Anything else escapes words.
just a quick note of interest, the government consulted the RCL Command Office for their thought’s on the issue, & they agreed with the government it is a solemn time for the family & units. I also agree with many forces writer’s I would not want this interupted by some ignorant reporter, on the flag they also agreed, thats why we have the 11th for all that have given the supreme sacrifice.
Thanks for the link, John Brown. As you say, flying the flag at half-staff is only done for national and governmental occasions and certainly not for the death of each soldier. They are remembered on a specific day.
But, as pointed out by Gen. MacKenzie, what many Canadians don’t seem to realize, is that the flag IS flown at half-staff on each death, at the Ottawa National Defence headquarters, at the military base(s) of that individual, and, at the option of the local gov’t, in the town, city, province of that individual. All we are talking about, is the Peace Tower flag. And, the MSM are not educating the public that this is all that is being referred to and that the flag IS lowered elsewhere, and that the whole scenario, follows protocol in most other countries.
But – the MSM has an agenda. Bash Harper/the CPC.
Anybody check out CTV’s latest article? And does it surprise anybody that Garth Turner is going against the government on this point?
You’d think Garth forgot that he is no longer an Opposition member for the fact that he hasn’t once agreed with his government.
NewsFLASH! Tories caught in lie on Flag issue. From CTV:
The previous Liberals favoured a policy that “unfairly distinguished some of those who died in Afghanistan from those who have died in current and previous operations,” O’Connor said in the letter.
However, back in October 2004, after submariner Lieut. Chris Saunders died in a fire on HMCS Chicoutimi, it was actually a Conservative MP — James Moore — who put forward a motion calling for flags on all government buildings to be flown at half-mast.
The motion was passed unanimously and up to now, has been policy ever since.
just a footnote to my prior: rcl has also stated that it encourages branches & private indviduals ie:city halls, business, homes that half staff is permissable & encouraged. The thing that is really amazing though is that individual, civilian etc… do not do that as a rule on the 11th usually just city halls & legion’s, government’s. also don’t forget red friday’s
Finally to maz: another good piece there(kinsella)keep up the good work
Soldiers okay with decision to bar media
Canadian Press via Sun Media ^ | 2006-04-25 | Murray Brewster
Posted on 04/25/2006 1:09:25 PM PDT by Clive
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) – The grief of war widows and families is an intensely private matter that doesn’t need to be on display for the whole country to see, a number of Canada’s fighting troops said Tuesday.
Still raw from the events of last weekend, when Taliban militants attacked and killed four Canadian soldiers, the Conservative government’s decision to ban the media from covering the arrival ceremonies of war casualties back in Canada was greeted with cautious approval.
“They already know when someone dies down here,” said Bombardier Hugo Girouard, a gunner from Shilo, Man.
“Why dramatize more what is already dramatic?”
When asked what their biggest concern would be should something happen to them, very nearly all the soldiers who agreed to speak Tuesday said they preferred grieving family members be shielded from what they consider to be the sometimes ruthless intensity of the media spotlight.
In late March, when Pte. Robert Costall was killed in a possible friendly fire incident in nearby Helmand province, many soldiers reacted with horror and disgust when specifics of his autopsy made headlines in a national newspaper.
“All of the details shouldn’t be given to the Canadian public because I don’t think they need to know everything,” said Girouard.
Whenever a soldier dies overseas, there are usually two so-called ramp ceremonies to which the media have open access.
The first is the departure, a stoic final salute from comrades in arms, most of whom line an airfield tarmac as the casket is loaded onto an aircraft for the final journey home.
Upon arrival in Canada, the solemn observance is repeated, with the grieving relatives there to receive their loved one.
“I believe that should be a family and private moment,” said Cpl. Greg Gorecki, of 1 Combat Engineering Regiment.
“I support the decision.”
If a family member chooses to talk to the media, that’s their prerogative, but they should not be put on display, complained several soldiers.
“All of the coverage the media has here on Kandahar airfield is all the coverage the media has to have,” said Gorecki.
“I think once the event has been covered, it doesn’t need to be exposed any more.” … more +
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1621344/posts
bcl- Saunders didn’t die in combat. That’s an entirely different issue and therefore, has nothing to do with honouring our ‘war dead’.
He died due to a fire, not in combat, which may have been caused by human error and/or the age of the subs – old, used equipment, as purchased by the Liberals.
The MSM has one agenda – bash Harper.