Driving into the city today and listening to John Gormley post-mortem the fallout in Alberta over the tepid support Ralph Klein received this past weekend, I’ve been struck by the “shock” in media over the results.
Am I the only person not surprised by the outcome?
Perhaps that’s because I’ve been reading the comments here and elsewhere from ordinary Albertans for the past two years, leading me to conclude that the only remaining demographic who considered Klein a right-of-center Conservative were the national media and the left. With the increasing noise over Alberta’s “responsibility to share” her oil wealth, (not to mention the alarm over growth in spending) I was getting the sense that more and more Albertans were uneasy about how steadfast a Klein led government might be if push came to confiscate.
Discuss.
William MacDonell:
Apparently you missed the entire point of my post re China…it was inserted as an illustration of the fact that the Kyoto Accord is an idiotic approach to the problem, given that so many countries are not bound by it. And those countries that are included, with perhaps the exception of Norway, are all on course to miss their emission targets by wide margins.
I am all for cleaning up the environment, and I think that I do my part, but a system of wealth transfer masquerading as an environmental issue is not the way to go, especially if it places our oil & gas industry in peril.
Oh, and on behalf of the gene pool, thanks for not having any kids…
I’ve got to agree with Kate, and it’s funny that we had the same conversation at home this morning. “Who’s Shocked?” is what we were saying. Once again, the MSM, Lefties, and live off of CBC and CTV crowd were totally out of touch. Still this afternoon, they’re all crowing, “Who saw this coming?”
If you have friends in Alberta, and follow blogs at all, you’d find the 55% result just about right.
Liberal Ralph lost touch with his base when he began spending harder than the federal government. Ralph, is a conservative by name only. And, his annual sabatoge Harper remarks didn’t win him any points either.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out Ralphie.
re the kyoto slush fund… can someone explain to me that if canada or any of the other participating countries fail to meet there quotas they pay a penalty to china, a non participant, or the other participants who have met ther supposed quotas. how does buying credits from another country cleanup the problem here ? of course it does’nt but what do i know except that maurice strong and the UN have surpassed his own level of scamming with the buying of a forest in costa rica on the ontario taxpayers dime. total crap.
The idea behind the system to purchase emission credits is this. A country that cannot make its target can purchase, for cash, credits on a per ton of carbon basis, from another country that is below their target level or is unrestricted. So, with enough cash, a country (or industry) can continue to pollute just as before as long as they can find a seller.
This is what makes it a wealth-transfer system rather than being an effective means of reducing pollution. As long a you are prepared to spend the cash, NO impact on the environment. Only the UN could design such idiocy…
BigCityLib: Your issue isn’t saving the arctic. If so, rather than a carbon tax, you would advocate a doubling or tripling of the gasoline tax at the pump, where users fill up with the carbon-based product that runs their vehicles.
Your issue seems, instead, to be the typical Liberal neo-racist Alberta bash-trash talk that we have become used to and is, not carbon taxes, what makes me think it’s time for Alberta to go.
You seem to have this totally misplaced belief that government can just impose a carbon tax and only those nasty Alberta oil companies will pay.
It’s like they say about drugs BigCityFib – just say no to the SUVs that clog Ontario’s freeways and you can save the arctic.
But that’s too simple. How better to engage in your racist slurs and trash talk, than get off your fat Fiberal duff and do something yourself.
Click.
sda commentators are getting me depressed today.
To stay on topic, here�s the flow: Albertans want to ensure no NEP-style national program is imposed upon them, whether it be in the name of �equalizing the wealth� (aka � politics of envy, aka: bl**dy lazy communists) or �environmentalism� (aka � hypocritical rich b*st*rds, either exploitive, or with uneasy consciences). Dealing with the former will put me off my feed, so let�s pick up William�s thread � he�s often sensible, but seems to have bought the pig on this one.
Look, it’s really simple. The current Kyoto-style incarnation of the environmental movement finds many useful idiots because the solutions to imprecisely-stated alarmist �problems� (which are usually model-driven worst-case scenarios) abrogate any need to fundamentally change personal behaviour, diminish personal responsibility, and permit real issues to be indefinitely deferred.
Now, I ain�t surprised that BCL is clueless, but to find the usually astute sda commentators this confused…
Do I need to draw diagrams? In crayon?
Go read Dorothy Sayer�s �Creed or Chaos�
Dear Bob,
A gas tax is a variety of carbon tax. I am assuming that is what we have been talking about. If Norris is speaking of something different, then some of what I said earlier will not apply. So would Albertans welcome an increase in gas taxes, or would this drive them over the wall?
As for Kyoto, the point is you have to start at somewhere, and this is the point from which you start. There is nothing else going around (and again, the U.S./Australien thing is a total fraud) that will replace it, and unless you are of the opinion that this is all a commie plot, you need some kind of international framework.
Now, my understanding of Kyoto is that everybody got a loophole. The shrieking from the business community was entirely empty, because basically they were required to do almost nothing of practical consequence in the immediate future. That is probably whats behind Harpers semi flip-flops on the issue. He is beginning to understand how little the treaty commits him to.
But the oil and gas boys don’t even want an ineffective treaty in place. Because it might lead to something more down the road. That’s indefensible.
>> Halifax Bay
No such place.
RIGHT ON BOB!!!!!!
Hey bigsissyfag the point of the matter is that M Strong and assoc. set the thing up so they could do some skimming of the top for themselves. oh sorry I forgot they’re liberanos so “there’s nothing to see here, move along, move along.”
Do you still have that 1.5 cent /litre deficite tax on gas up there? I thought so. Trouble with ANY tax is that it doesn’t disappear, the rate just goes up.
Fact: The arctic is warming up. Live with it because you don’t have a choice. All fine and dandy for bigcityfib to get on his bike or the metrorail but try explaining this to the Saskatchewan farmer or the family of four that need more groceries than will fit in your fanny pack. Oh, at 40 below to boot.
As for King Ralph, He did do a lot for Alberta but it is time to move on. A great part of the 55% that voted did so out of loyalty. The last couple of budgets that have come out sound more like lieberal dreams.
lets see…the world population is 5-6 billion and climbing. i wonder how many tons of methane we produce annually. then theres all those other critters running around doing the same thing. just wondering how the credits fit into that senario.
Too many of these posts are off topic. It seems to me the majority are responses to baiting from bigcitylib and that ilk – trying to drive traffic to their own startup or sputtering blogs. It’s better that conservatives rationalize amongst themselves and grow ideas, rather than fight bogeys. Kate, it’s your site, but if it were mine, I’d ban him.
Ralph is a Liberal ‘trapped in a closet’
“just.. come out of the closet Ralph”
There, back on topic.
I also live in Alberta and there has been a lot of criticism of Ralph lately. Nothing in the media, more at the grassroots. He has lacked any vision for Alberta’s future and the party paid for it in the last election. I defy anyone to tell me what the PC platform was during the lst provincial election, other than “four more years”.
I expected about 60-70%, just below Ralph’s minimum, to send a message. I guess the message from the last election has sunk in to the party more than to Ralph.
Note to bigcitylib. WE HAVE NO EFFECT ON THE ARCTIC MELTING!!! And the only consequence of a melting
Arctic is the openiing of the Northwest passage.
William M:
“…lest you speak of that which you know nothing about, especially given that many of them render far and away better service…”
Too sad to even be funny…I can’t believe you said that. Just don’t get kidney cancer in Beijing…they might just prescribe aspirin and green tea and tell you not to complain when it doesn’t work.
You obviously believe that man-made climate change is real and very bad. I don’t. It has no more rigorous proof than the existence of Ogo Pogo. But go ahead and support eco-nuts…and help drive the business out of the oil patch. Maybe we can fall back to a cheaper “Beijing” like medical system and just tell everyone to shut up and drink their green tea.
One the largest reduction in greenhouse gases is not the result of a good plan? As opposed to paying Rick Mercer to annoy Canadians with the “One tonne challenge”. Because a plan comes from the US it automatically has no merit. Give me a break.
I think you better do some more research bigcitylib.
The obvious solution is for the Federal Government NOT to tinker with Alberta’s current boom.
Sit back, collect all the relevant existing Federal taxes and enjoy the ride I say.*
Why mess with success?
JJM
* Qu�bec – like a lot of other provinces – ends up with a chunk of that change just by virtue of BEING PART OF CANADA: perhaps their separatists better start thinking about that fact.
I think the only surprised people re the 55% Ralph vote were probably his most inner circle. A probem with Ralph’s syle of leadership is that it tends to collect around the leader, a whole bunch of yes people. Others are not tolerated and it does not encourage highly capable people to even want to become part of the “inner” clique. Push back is inevitable and it happened. Consider who seem to be the current leadership alternatives. Is there even one among them who is strong enough/capable enough to do what has to be done both provincially and federally. I don’t know right now but I’m looking hard.
The next leader of Alberta is going to be in a very powerful position and for this we should have a very powerful leader who has around him a solid core of very capable people. The federal situation is tenuous at best and now is the time to focus on Plan B. It is a whole lot more than about a carbon tax, although that does become part of it as well.
I’m looking for a candidate who is not shy about talking about/using the notwithstanding clause (just as Quebec has done for decades) or to challenge some of the ludicrous supreme court decisions, or, or, or…. Harper’s crew is trying hard to change things in Ottawa. I don’t believe that this is realistically possible (the Liberal legacy is simply to embeded) – but wish him/them well. With the right leadership now – I believe we can do very well in the West. With wimpy leadership we are not going to do very well at all.
Capable yes-people will only remain so until they feel the time is right to make a move – and last week end was the time. Was it just a move – or was it a move by capable people. I don’t think anybody is really to sure about what just happened. My surprise is that the 1180 “inside blue” had the guts and the intestinal fortitude to lay it on the table. It was time and things will move forward. Stagnation, doing nothing, was no longer an option.
Ralph does not have to leave yet but not to do so would seem to be untenable. If he leaves very quickly – and the personal ambitions of some candidates who no doubt had at least something to do with the 55% – will be pushing for this to happen. Others will be wanting some time. Now that it is out in the open – hopefully some candidates – other than Preston Manning – may emerge. To see a very rushed leadership race would probably not be a good thing for Alberta.
Survivor Alberta style. Ralph got voted off the island. Too late to go back now folks. Put on a pair of socks and carry on.
It was interesting to hear Mark Norris over the weekend. First he was incredulous and thought Ralph desrved better, his big buddy. Then when talk turned to 55% still being a majority, and maybe he should stay on; Norris suddenly tried to head that idea off into the ditch. Saying something to the effect that the delgates voted and it was time to move on, time for a change.
My biggest problem with Ralph over the years, wasn’t so much what he did do or didn’t do, it was the way he did it. Through bullying and implying that anyone who was against him wasn’t severly normal. His book throwing temper tantrum was indicative of his attitude towards opposition. He could not stand to be criticized or questioned. I think he ruled through fear and intimidation. The smoking incident(in the Ledge) was a good indication of people not having the guts to stand up to him. So the practice got leaked to the media, and the public outcry put a stop to it.
The Klein goverment was spending fewer and fewer days in session than the old Lougheed government (for example). Shouldn’t it be more? Are we not a bigger province, spending more money, with more MLA’s and more issues?. Klein himself was missing Q.P.’s and Minister’s Conferences. He was more interested in finding ways to escape, having his Deputy pinch hit. A man who acted (re)tired, and was out of ideas. An empty tank.
As much as I don’t like him, I do feel a tiny bit sorry for him and his wife. I thought it was pretty crappy for their ‘supposed friends’ to use her as a vehicle for their hidden agenda. They may as well have called her a squaw, it was certainly implied. That sort of attitude will still exist in the party, and it’s supporters (and the A.S.C.) after Klein is gone.
At least I’d get a pristine Kidney in China… what am I going to get here… regardless, you don’t know what your talking about Martin in regards to third world hospitals. Yes, you can get the straw hut and the medicine man, but you can also get the French and Spanish trained surgeons in third world nations that have more degrees than Carters got pills, it just depends.
I’m not a great believer in global warming as a result of man’s interference actually, I think that it’s a naturally occurring effect, and that it happens in cycles… that does’t change the fact that we pack more useless shit into the ground that wasn’t there before, than we ever have at any point in history. Do we really need all that tupperware?
I’m a great believer in the Tar Sands, I should be, I’ve bet my life and retirement on them. That doesn’t mean I have to like the process, nor does it mean I can’t be more excited about other technologies which reclaim the oil in a less impacting way.
And yah, I am a fucking tree hugger. Why the hell should business be allowed to cram my mailbox full of shit I couldn’t care a less about, or bomb my neighborhood with flyers and such on doorsteps that just end up blowing down the street or populating kittylitter box’s.
Let Zellers and Walmart and the grocery chains advertise on TV and Radio. Waste of fricken paper, and the marketing results are mixed at best.
There’s a lot we can do that’s really easy to do… I’m not a green fanatic, I just hear all these people bitching about pollution and garbage, and yet I still get half a tree worth of useless junkmail every month.
If I had a loonie for every piece of junkmail I get, it would be worth $.85 cents.
William, re your junk mail. Do as I do and stuff all those prestamped envelopes with it and mail it back to whoever. Great fun to send CC applications to the wrong people. The junk one gets in Sears, Bank stmts etc, utility bills etc, all go back in their s.a. envelopes. Try it.
William M., you’re a tree hugger because you don’t like junk mail that fill your house? I guess most people are then. You could always give the affluent people in the nirvana of Mexico City your paper trash so they can build a new hospital wing stocked to the literary rafters with Hawkeye Pierce Mayo Clinic types (who just happen to be in the neighbourhood).
By the way, the Beijing kidney cancer thing you make light of really did happen. Just be happy you weren’t in the same shoes as the young individual who’s fate was put in the hands of a health care system that didn’t and couldn’t care enough to diagnose and treat the obvious.
You can go back to shovelling black sticky sand into your RRSP. Enjoy it before Kyoto kills it.