An Afghan Christian facing possible execution for converting from Islam was likely to be released from jail “soon,” a senior government official said following huge Western pressure over the case.
“He is likely to be released soon,” the official said, adding there would be a top-level meeting on the matter Saturday.
Abdul Rahman was arrested two weeks ago under Islamic Sharia law and faced a possible death sentence in a case that has attracted widespread condemnation, especially from the United States.
If this comes to pass, then we can be satisfied that the series of events has transpired as it should – diplomacy and international pressure will have resulted in an innocent life saved.
I do not join with those, however, who have called for a withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan should the efforts to have Rahman freed fail. As much as I am troubled by the details of the case, I’m no more so than I have been by reports of corruption, honour killings, human rights abuses or any number of injustices perpetrated under, or tolerated by, regimes that enjoy various types of Canadian military and/or foreign aid. If the Rahman case is justification to pull Canadian troops from the theatre – in a country that was used as safe haven and launch point for Islamist terror attacks on the West – then surely the revelations of United Nations child porn rings should prompt the Canadian government to send back our blue helmets for a refund as well.
We might at least set a precedent by cutting off all foreign aid to China.
It’s disturbing to hear voices on talk radio and across the blogosphere suggest Canadian military support for the fledgling Afghan government be withdrawn as a mere consequence of the trial taking place at all – for none of them seem to have considered the obvious followup question – “and then what?”
As we are often reminded – democracy is a process, not a destination. One does not have to dig too deeply into the histories of our own Western democracies to realize that our modern protections of human rights and personal liberty did not congeal fully formed from the ether – they evolved over hundreds of years.
As the beneficiaries of that long and bloody process of democratic trial and error, living in societies more likely to face problems created by the excesses of liberalism than any shortage of it, we tend to view fledgling democracies like Afghanistan from the wrong end of the lens. Instead of comparing them to current Western democratic norms, it is probably more appropriate to measure events against that of Western democracies of the 1800 and 1900’s.
In that context, Afghanistan has come a very long way from the unspeakably repressive Taliban regime, and in an extraordinarily short time. But the process has only just begun, and progress is not likely to be plotted on a linear graph. Nor, needless to say, is the outcome assured.
It will be at least a generation before we can hope stories such as that of Abdul Rahman are consigned to Afghanistan’s dustbin of history – and that only if those forces helping sustain the progress of democracy and liberalization of Islamic governments stay the course. The alternative is to surrender Afghanistan back to the very forces that brought us there in the first place.
And then what?
” it is probably more appropriate to measure their progress against that of Western democracies of the 1800 and 1900’s.”
Ok. Which ones exactly, would you like to compare?
And then what?
The place spirals into a disaster zone that Cdn. troops were precisely sent to avert.
A resurgent Taliban takes over and we are back to square one on the war on terror; as these types will surely bring it to the home front.
As regards religious freedom, I got sacked for not accepting the BCTF party line on abortion on demand. I walked on my profession, on a matter of principle; something our politicians might want to rediscover.
PMSH has made a good start, with or without Mr. Rahman Cda still needs to be in Afghanistan; as the alternatives are highly unpalatable.
It is unfortunate that Cda didn’t have the jam to send troops to Rwanda, under the liberal watch, when they were so desperately needed.
Instead, we got a suicidal Gen. Romeo Dallaire drunk on an Ottawa street bench. Absolutely shameful.
We’ve seen the policy of disengagement, now is the time for a policy of engagement.
Actually, I’m more afraid for his life if he is released. Because now the militant public can have their way with him. He’s somewhat protected now.
I consider the execution of a man for his faith to be “unspeakably repressive”. Pressure can be brought to bear on the Afghan government to change the law, or to uphold their own constitution. It’s not an either or proposition. We don’t have to either leave abruptly or stay and put up with everything they do. They are not immune to the admonishments of friends or the threats of benefactors.
Great points about staying the course in Afstan, Kate.
Walking away now would just send the signal that the good can be beaten down by the bad and the ugly.
Moderate Muslims must be given a chance to even be heard let alone prevail, over the strident incitements of the radical clerics and their assorted extremist followers. And the only chance moderates will have is through our help and support.
Lets not forget to give credit to the Prime Minister for his attention to this matter. There certainly wasnt any dithering there, and he was quick off the mark to let Karzai know where Canada stood.
Good on you PMSH!!!
This issue has been discussed as if it is Afghanistan-specific. Isn’t the penalty the same (death) in all Muslim countries? At some point we in the west will have to come to grips with the actual teachings of this religion.
I am astounded how anti-Bush feelings blind vocal westerners, who should be filling our streets protesting in support of basic human rights in the Middle East.
BTW:
Great post Kate! You didnt lose your way with words on your “vacation”
Gen. Romeo Dallaire drunk on a street bench in Ottawa?? Did I miss something? Not being rude, just being curious.
I am worried to about this man being released when I hear that some are planning to tear him to pieces. Disturbing.
I’m sorry Kate, but I’m not seeing much difference in the freedoms given to Afgan citizens now vs. during the Taliban’s reign. Except for purple thumbs, it sounds, looks and walks much like the same daffy duck.
If religious freedom, the freedom to chose what we believe, isn’t a basic human right then I don’t know what is. The Rahman issue is about much more than a singular injustice against one individual…he’s part of what I presume will be a growing population of non-muslims in Afganistan. Those people must be protected and their country must create a Bill of Rights that recognizes individual rights and freedoms to lay the foundation for the growth of that protection.
If the sacrifice being made by our troops is going to be worthwhile it will as a vanguard for the Afgan people while that growth takes place. But without the existence of a Bill of Rights (and subsequent introduction of a common law) in a sharia dominated society no change is possible and Taliban extremism can easily return. With that in mind, the blood shed by our troops would have been wasted.
To Martin B…..
Typical thumbsucker expectations of instant gratification.
Grown ups know what it means to be Committed to a cause.
“As we are often reminded – democracy is a process, not a destination.”
Yes, and democracy worked out so well in Palestine, nie? I get all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.
Pull out the troops, send in the nukes.
Anne:
Just to get you up to speed. Gen. Romeo Dallaire headed up the UN mission in Rwanda 1993; in which approximately 1 million people were slaughtered in the Hutu/Tutsi conflict mostly by method of machete.
Despite Gen. Romeo Dallaire’s repeated and untiring calls for more troops and supplies to quell the uprising were ignored and none were forthcoming. In fact his troop count was cut instead, as the whole place went to hell in a hand cart.
Clinton managed to do a touch and go on the tarmac in Kigali and suggested they didn’t know; which of course was utter rubbish. Another UN inspired disaster due to lack of interest by the so called governing authorities of the world.
From Dallaire’s text “Shake Hands with the Devil” on page 6:
“What I have come to realize as the root of it all, however, is the fundamental indifference of the world community to the plight of seven to eight million black Africans in a tiny country that had no strategic or resource value to any world power. An overpopulated little country that turned in on itself and destroyed its own people, as the world watched and yet could not manage to find the political will to intervene. Engraved still in my mind is the judgement of a small group of bureaucrats who came to “assess” the situation in the first weeks of the genocide: ‘We will recommend to our government not to intervene as the risks are high and all that are here are humans [and there are too many of them]”.
I am sure each and every one of you reading the above quote would like to be on the receiving end of such a delightful policy.
Gen. Romeo Dallaire was appointed to the Senate by PM Paul Martin. One of the few moves he did properly. I wonder what Sen. Dallaire thought of the military attack ads, pondering the fact that the world hung him out to dry in Rwanda.
Well of course the hate isn’t directed inward but rather in Afghanistan, the hate will be projected outward if one lets it get out of hand.
Pull out of Afghanistan and I will show you the gates of hell in about 6 – 12 months as the terror campaign gets geared up to full flower.
The road to hell always begins with the INDIFFERENCE to the humanity of the other. Here we are 60 some odd years after WWII and the foundation of the UN and mankind still doesn’t get it.
Hans,
I believe that the human race is doomed by the fact that after thousands of years nothing has changed except technology.
We just cannot rid ourselves of hate and envy. Those are he two biggies that make us do the horrible things we do.
We know that you cannot legislate people to like and get along with each other. Social pressure can only do so much and usually backfires.
I think we did a lot better at getting along when we all lived in distinct cultures behind our own borders. People like to be ‘same as’. It’s our nature to want to belong. Multiculturalism has worked against that. It will only get worse over time as each group becomes larger more isolated in their ‘neighborhoods’ within our borders.
Look at Quebec. It’s the 1000 pound gorilla standing in the corner that is living proof. We have more in common with Quebec than any other opposing groups in any society I can think of. Yet, they want to be away from us and on their own. Many of us feel the same way about them.
They have distorted our economy and our society in many ways and the benefits have been negligible… unless you consider their ultra liberalism and their maple syrop, biligualism (for us but not them) somehow advantageous to the rest of us.
If human nature had any attention paid to it, we could more easily make the right decisions about how to live together. As long the left flogs this rainbow horse shit we are doomed. People simply don’t like others who are too exotic, insular, weird and generally different.
If thing are to continue on the present course, we will continue having episodes of war and death. So, if we don’t be realistic about how to change ourselves, I suggest we stop whining when the killing part is happening.
The best way to run a society is to have one language and one culture. They you can deal with the more peaceful issues such as infrastructure, prosperity, self actualization.
Make sense?
Martin B
I can’t tell are you a pacifist or a coward?
All I’ve heard you say (on various threads)in regard to Canada’s current role in Afghanistan is that unless we have immediate results our troops must come home. Its been what 3 weeks since we took over? You claim you want the troops to accomplish something there, but you would deny them the time to do it.
Can we at least honour our commitment to the UN, before we talk about pulling out? Or should we break our international obligations and loose all credibility with our allies?
SAVE ABDUL RAHMAN! 2.0
Lots of links, news, views. Enjoy!
http://www.anglican.tk/?p=508
http://www.anglican.tk/?p=507
I think this episode in fact represtents a sea change in the nature of of Afghan civil society. When an egregious (by our standards) human rights violation was in the making, diplomatic and public pressure was brought to bear on the government of Afghanistan. The result, so far, has been a face-saving stand down on the part of the Afghan prosecutors to allow Abdul Rahman to avoid prosecution.
Under the Taliban, did any such pressure prevent the destruction of the Buddhist statues? Could any such pressure have prevented the hanging of a gay man from the goal-post of a soccer stadium simply for being gay? No . . would that it could have! Baby steps.
Thanks for the recap Hans.
I have not read his book, which I should, so am unware of specific passages. The one you quoted is reflective of how the U.N. operates and I was aware of most of the other stuff that happened, still remember the hearings which did not amount to any real change.
I guess what I was asking was did the “street bench” incident really happen or were you being figurative? Was this something in the book? Somethig I missed in the hearings (or forgot)? I knew that he was depressed but…
I thought that Gen. Romeo Dallaire should have been made GG but I may be alone on that thought.
The way Darfur is being handled looks to me like another Rwanda, too little, too late.
Kate,
I agree that we cannot cut and run should this Christian man suffer death at the hands of Sharia law. This kind of persecution of Christians is a daily thing in many Islamic countries, not to mention the horror of honour killings and other revelations of the satanic heart of this world wide cult. You can see it (the heart) in the madness in the streets of Europe.
I believe we are doing Afghanis a service; hopefully they will come out of the Dark Ages. It is also much wiser to carry the fight against terror to its roots, rather than fight it here, though that may eventually happen. Would to God Peter McKay would give his head a shake and deal with reality, rather than the illusion of “the vast majority of peace-loving Muslims.”
It’s an interesting thing to consider that the only people 25 years ago who were warning of the non-confomity and non-compatibility of the Islamic cult were the fundamentalist Baptist preachers.
I cannot believe the number of Canadians who have flip-flopped on Canada’a role in Afghanistan since this story broke about the Afghan Christian being held and possibly facing a death sentence. Is this not part of the reason we went to Afghanistan? To leave now, would only suggest that the West will cut their losses and run when it gets inconvenient for them. How short some people’s memories are!! This is the homeland of the perverted souls that designed and carried out 911 as well as many other attacks throughout the world. The Afghan situation is very complex, and the job of our forces is huge. The fact still remains that this country shelters a group of people who are intent on destroying Western civilization. It may take a hit on Canadin soil for some of these weak natured types to see what we are up against. I truly hope this doesn’t happen, but my gut suggests it is just a matter of time before it does.
Why have we not heard from the thousands of Islamic people who now make this country their home. Does their silence suggest that they support the actions suggested by Afghan law? Or are these new Canadians so absorbed in their new lives here, that they are following the ways of so many in Canada… that of being totally apathetic to everything that does not involve them directly? The leaders of these Islamic groups need to stand up and tell us exactly how they feel about issues like this.
There are no easy answers in this Afghan situation, but one thing is sure…. that is, if we pull our troops home over the first issue we don’t agree with, we are allowing the forces of evil that are determined to destroy each and every one of us, a win of major proportion. I can think of no time since WW2 that is was so important to Canadians to support their troops and support their missions.
‘allo, ‘allo, ‘allo. Where’s the loo, old chaps?
The left/socialist Guardian from London, England, calling with their smarmy, traitorous account:
Pip, pip, old cocks.
We’ll ‘ave ya ‘ome in time for teee with Sir McCartney after ‘e & his Lovey gets ‘ome from the colonies with a babyseal coat.(nudge, nudge; wink, wink). +
Iraq hostages ‘were saved by rift among kidnappers’
…
A brief description of the moment the SAS arrived at the hostage house was provided yesterday in the Toronto Star, which quoted one of the Canadians, Jim Loney, telling his brother in Vancouver in a call from Baghdad: “The door came crashing in and gentlemen with British accents basically unshackled him and escorted him out.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1739343,00.html
Ryan: “I can’t tell are you a pacifist or a coward?”
Try to force me to convert to Islam, entice my children into wearing bomb belts or enslave the female members of my family under oppressive laws and I’ll show you the coward in my pacifist.
You’re not in Afganistan either buddy, so I guess you’re no less cowardly than I am.
Great post, Kate.
Islam is a primative cult. Most Muslims, especially in rural areas, have had no opportunity to examine another mindframe.
Leaving solves nothing. There is no denying, if you look at history, that Christian missionaries meet their objective, though more draconian in practice, and converted vast numbers of people that are willing adherents to this day. They had to look at some really ugly behaviors up close beforehand. Democracy is the message this time. It needs patience to take root.
Anne:
Yes, Dallaire was on the park bench in the throws of post traumatic stress syndrome. Yeah, no kidding he witnessed one of the worst horror shows since WWII.
Darfur, is still on the docket; again a lame ass international response. At least PM Paul Martin made an effort to make a photo op trip there; but we needed a more vigorous response in getting our old Grizzlies there in a timely fashion.
TO Sean:
‘…just nuke them’ Now there is a measured response. Just the ticket for the diplomatic corps.
Duke:
The mono culture theme just doesn’t cut it anymore. The world has changed and become too small for that kind of thinking. If you study conflict long enough you come to hit on the same
behaviour pattern of alienation, lack of communication, dehumanization and objectification. The specifics change but the process to the road of conflict appear to follow the same feature set.
It is pretty simple to pull the trigger, but a little more time consuming to sit down and find out why it is that a certain group only feels victorious or built up by tearing another group down. A study for mass psychology behaviour patterns students.
At some point one needs to get beyond the surface shibboleths and find the nut of the matter.
As one wag once commented: “God wants spiritual fruit not religious nuts.”
It would appear the old garden of Eden needs a little spadework as some weeds have arisen.
Very interesting comments all around!
My take on it is that I am quite certain that the Americans tried to convince the Afgans not to resort to putting Islamic Law into their Constitution but failed.
This indicates how committed to their religion, yes religion, they really are.
One of the poorest countries on earth with no prospect of a healthy GDP any time soon, and with an illiterate population, all they have is their tradition. It is comfortable, it is an integral part of their lifestyle(primative tribal). So I think it is going to be awhile, like generations, before we see substantial change in their practices.
If millions of Americans can still believe that the Bible is the literal truth in the most scientifically advanced nation on earth, then you get a rough idea of how tough it is going to be for the Afgan to make the leap into the 21st century. Rather than hold our breath waiting, our time would be better spent getting used to it. It is after all, their country, and their religion.
As far as the Canadian troops are concerned they would do well to learn the local ways including, and perhaps especially, their Islamic Law, and show respect, otherwise all bets are off. It is bad enough we are the Infidel, disrespecting their Law would be like spitting in their faces. Once we accept them for who they are then we can begin the long process of evolutionary change, and I do mean long.
Steve d,
I take your point about ingrained tradition, but I wish to take up the challenge you imply about the Bible to say that it is precisely because millions of Americans have a literal take on the Bible that America is the most advanced nation on the earth.
oops,
didn’t mean to sound so confrontational. Should have said: Do you suppose there could be a correlation between Bible believing and obvious blessing?
pastorwally
I said “scientifically” advanced. Science and industry have together created the most advanced nation on earth. Some of the scientific fields of inquiry have concluded that the earth is billions of years old, as is the universe. A Bible fundamentalist still believes the universe was created some 6000 years ago. I just finished reading an article in the Arkansas Times which reveals yet another science teacher was told not to teach evolution. So it is odd to me how these ideas persist in light of the obvious power of science. Just look at how we are communicating! If you think about it you have to be in awe of what science has given us.
I don’t think you could be an astronomer or a geologist and be a fundamentalist.
The mere fact these two opposing realities exist speaks to the tenacity of belief. Therefore, to expect the Afgan to change his beliefs would be naive.
maybe time to read…”Shake Hands With The Devil”…by Dollaire…and then make your comments…I wasn’t there and I don’t believe were any of the current posters…
Martin B
“Try to force me to convert to Islam, entice my children into wearing bomb belts or enslave the female members of my family under oppressive laws”
Thanks….those are three things we’re trying to help the Afghans do away with….its so much easier to turn your back on your brother than it is to actually get involved in helping him.
But hey you’re right, I’m not there, maybe I don’t have the balls. Or, maybe it takes a rare extraodinary strength to do what our armed services feel called to do, maybe I just don’t have the balls to undermine their work while their doing it.
If millions of Americans can still believe that the Bible is the literal…
Show me the irrefutable statistic on that “millions”. Give me a hard cold irrefutable number of the Americans that think the world was created in 6000 days. “An article in the Arkansas Times” of a singular event in a rural state doesn’t constitute “millions”.
Hey, steve, by your logic the ancestors of the Aztecs and Mayans might still be sacrificing young girls in our hemispere. The Spanish stopped it pretty damn quickly.
If Islam was practicing cannabalism or human sacrifice should we respect their religious “traditions”? Wait until they have a change of heart? Islam, as it stands now, is pretty much as barbaric any other historic blot on humanity. Abdul Rahman’s story isn’t unique. It’s 24/7 in Darfur.
Karzai will intervene. There will be some local incidents as a result. But, you can bet the next sharia court will think twice about trying to execute a Christian convert.
You know, steve, as an American I wouldn’t mind as much your incessant anti-American insults if the were original, well-crafted, humorous or had some solid research behind them. But, you re-cycle the same boring leftist memes and hackneyed stereotypes. You’re like a radio with one station.
“Now there is a measured response. Just the ticket for the diplomatic corps.”
I’ve never done anything in half measures in my entire life so why start now? Islam is a disease. Scourge it.
Steve d,
If you think the evolutionary theory has any science behind it, you are misinformed. Many of the real scientists like Newton, Faraday, and Lord Kelvin were Bible-believing men. See “Men of Science-Men of God” by Henry Morris.
Afghanis aren’t the only society that have penalties against conversion.
In Israel a 1977 anti-proselytizing law forbids anyone from offering or receiving (such as a Bible) material benefits as an incentive to change religions.
a well reasoned post, kate, thanks. people so often forget the big picture, the long view, as if we are where we are today, and have always been. keep it up.
A Bible fundamentalist still believes the universe was created some 6000 years ago.
But what does the Bible say?
Are we there for democracy to flower or is it majority rules?
After their Constitution was ratified, it was amended to bring back in this Sharia law that included this duty perhaps to execute someone for switching religions. You cannot have democracy unless you have religious freedoms and human rights.
A majority of people in Afghanistan may well believe that someone who gives up their religion should be executed so where are we at?
And then what?
So they are not oppressed anymore and (with us bearing responsibility) they have set up another administration, another regime that is just as hostile to religious freedoms and to human rights.
I don’t think anybody wants to lose their daughter or son this year, next year so they can keep Sharia law, for a long time while things “evolve”.
I say cut and run.
I do not advocate pulling our troops should this man be executed, but I would certainly be less supportive of our mission. We are purportedly there to help a fledgling government shake of the chains of an oppressive rule (the Taliban). Is it enough that young girls can attend schools, but Christian converts be put to death, to call it either “unoppressive” or “less oppressive”?
I understand that we have no right to dictate to the Afghanistan gov’t about their laws. That is a given.
But I would argue those who call this acceptable under rules of sovereignty or their “culture” are missing an important point. We may not have the right to tell them what to do, but THEY ASKED US FOR HELP. We have EVERY right to attach strings to that help.
In addition, their constitution on the one hand upholds “the United Nations Charter and respecting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights” and that “Any kind of discrimination and privilege between the citizens of Afghanistan are prohibited. The citizens of Afghanistan � whether man or woman � have equal rights and duties before the law” and both of these can potentially conflict with this ” The religion of the state of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan is the sacred religion of Islam.”
http://www.afghansite.com/afghanistan/afghanConstitution.asp
Just as a bank has the right to say “we will lend you the money provided you pay us back with interest” Canada has a right to say “we will help you retain control & rebuild provided you recognize basic human rights.”
This particular case highlights a flaw in the Afghan constitution that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. It’s one thing to say your constitution recognizes Islam as the national religion, but another to say that, at the same time, you recognize basic human rights (except, I guess, for that pesky freedom of religion bit).
I do not and would not advocate us pulling out over this one incident, regardless of the outcome. But if this & others occur repeatedly (and I’ve seen blogs & articles referring to 2 or 3 others in a similar situation but the location is being withheld by the Af’stan gov’t due to the high level of international interest), I would be hard pressed to support renewing commitments to this country, at least until they address the constitutional inconsistencies.
And should they choose to address those inconsistencies by removing support for basic human rights? Then we are supporting “Taliban-lite” and get what we deserve. We might as well pull out; the consequences will likely be the same in the end.
IMHO
Canada still has troops in the Golan Heights… in Cyprus, somewhere in the former Yugoslavia? and in a variety of other locations… I can’t see and hope not to see, PMSH remove the troops from Afghanistan when the work seems to moving along well.
The resolve is only tested by the left… so it’s not serious.
Where these people are coming from, and where they should be compared to so many other places in the world is still a far reach. They have miles to go.
I think it is incredible they’ve considered killing a man for changing his religion, but hey, people here kill others for sex, or for $10. and cigerettes or for “everyday anger”. The fine for a woman at a beach in 1910 wearing a 2006 bikini, was…? well it was likely an appointment with a Dr. first, jail next, and others would have regarded her as an untouchable. Remember, they weren’t “people” in Canada yet.
It’s going to take more than time to change the attitude there, I keep thinking a muslem reformation, but I can’t see who or what, will bring it. and I don’t think “turning the desert to glass” will do it. A freedom of religion amendment to the constitution would be a good step…
Nobody wants change brought to them, we like to bring change.
Ryan, I have absolutely no problem supporting our forces in Afganistan right now. I will have a very big problem if the Afganistan government stagnates or backslides on establishing basic human rights for their citizens. Converted Christians being put to death for their beliefs is a very big backslide from a free society and can’t be tolerated or swept aside under any circumstances. If we do that, then what is the purpose of our soldiers being there?
Like Rex Murphy says, governments that allow despicable injustices like the one Mr. Rahman is facing are the ones we should fight…not protect.
Our soldiers can’t make a free society in Afganistan. Only those in their government can do that critical work, but it must be constantly pushed by Canada and real progress must be seen. If we don’t push the hard changes will never happen…even the so called “moderates” don’t seem keen on social change as evidenced by the little progress in the three years since the fall of the Taliban.
Their government must allow itself to become secularized or extreme Islamic elements could very well take over again in “democratic” elections(remember Hamas?). I don’t believe we have the time many people commenting in this thread think we have. If things don’t begin to happen fast the mission is doomed.
The obvious answer to me is the establishment of a Bill of Rights. The American Bill of Rights was established in 1791 shortly after the American Revolution. Without the Bill of Rights there would be no functioning federal government and Americans would have no legal protection from the powers of the state. It�s a living document that was made to be changed as necessary. For example the 13th amendment abolished slavery in 1865 (think Afgan women could use that one?). In reality slavery existed beyond 1865 but the very existence of the amendment in the Bill of Rights pushed change through America�s legal channels and society eventually�changed.
Without such a document in Afganistan there�s nothing to start change down the country�s legal channels. That�s where change has to begin and because it can take a long time to effect positive changes in a society (especially one as oppressively backwards as Afganistan), the sooner a Bill of Rights gets created the better for everyone�and especially for the citizens.
Let’s make sure that Canada isn’t merely being used by the current Afgan power brokers to suppress their opponents. If they truly want a better society for the Afgan citizens then the government will do what it takes to keep our troops there.
Off topic, but could save some grief before an open tips post comes up.
This info, and speaking to someone in the Credit industry brings sad news.
You are advised to no longer use your card on line. I know I will miss the convenience.
The Visa and Mastercharge people must be taking huge losses, but they dare not tell you and I the truth.
The MSM are quiet, but to get off the hook, they may have a tiny item about it buried in the bowels of the paper.
This is much worse than the [4] million accounts compromised on the errant Arizona server.
========
MetaFisher Trojan steals bank details
Run by hackers as smart as your IT department
Jaikumar Vijayan
http://www.techworld.com/security/news/index.cfm?NewsID=5627&Page=1&pagePos=12&inkc=0
http://tinyurl.com/gfh8c
Hackers have been using a Trojan – whose sophistication would put professional IT departments to shame – to quietly steal bank-account details on hundreds of thousands of computers worldwide.
For weeks, customers of large banks in the UK, Spain and Germany have been duped by phishing emails into installing the MetaFisher Trojan and putting their machines under the control of one of the most sophisticated *botnets* known so far.
*This is one of those big, under-the-radar threats that we’ve been concerned about,* said Ken Dunham, director of the rapid response team at VeriSign’s iDefense unit. *There has been a trend away from big-bang attacks to very targeted and sophisticated attacks that take place right under your nose. This is one of them.* 10words TG
Steve d
What makes you so sure that “science” has it right. There are many of us that accept a very literal account of creation as told in the bible, namely the Genisis account.
Now if your faith only allows you to believe that your closest living relative is a monkey, a chimp or an ape, and that you developed from a single cell out of the primordial ooze, then perhaps you have greater faith than I.
I believe that a loving creator made man in His image. I believe that mankind is a special creation of God, given very unique abilities. Man has the ability to reason, to feel emotion, to understand right from wrong (he has a conscience). Man has been given an eternal soul and a spirit that hungers after spiritual things. Yes, I believe that God created man with “godlike” qualities so that man could respond and relate to his creator.
I watched a very interesting dvd recently (Unlocking the Mysteries of Life), made by molecular biologists, some of whom were athiests and agnostics earlier in their careers. Because of the things that they have discovered using molecular microscopes and other imaging tools, they can no longer justify putting forth Darwins “theory” of evolution and have come to be men of faith. The dvd shows at the molecular level how DNA chains are made through the interactions of chemicals, hormones, enzymes etc. There are machines at work within each cell that assemble each strand of DNA in its proper sequence. These scientists after many years of research have come to the conclusion that chance could not explain what they were seeing. There must be a designer.
I am not going to try and convince anyone here of what I and many others believe to be true. I have read on the threads recently how some would like “belief in God” to go away or never to be mentioned. That is impossible, because for some of us, He is the only explanation that makes sense and fits the evidence that has been presented. We will continue to believe, even as Mr. Rahman.
There will come a day when all who have lived on this wonderful planet will stand before the creator and give an account. Sometimes I wonder what some will say on that day…Perhaps it will go something like this…
“Why didn’t you believe in me?”
“The scientific eveidence was so convincing.”
“I gave you evidence, I set the stars in place. I gave order to the universe so that men would believe. I gave them the miracle of birth throughout all of nature to show my creative power. I gave men seasons and the sun for warmth. I gave men seeds and animals for food and clothing. I gave them my only Son…”
I have a hard time envisioning the human response at this point.
“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse…” Romans 1:20
Have a great Day!
Maranatha
ha ,the muslims are trying to rule. think about it . use your damned brains . a beheading or two in iraq, a couple of ” moderate ” muslims tell us ” we’re not like that ” . a politician in denmark apologises for us thinking we still have free speech.
a bomb explodes in jerusalem killing thirty people . another ” moderate ” muslim tells us ” we’re not like that . thats not what islam is about ” .
oops ! a few bombs go off in a subway in london . another few “moderate muslims” tell us ” thats not what islam stands for ” another commitee trys to find out why this happened. another politician apologises to the muslim community for them having to bomb us to make their point .
i could go on for two or three days but i think you get my point.
wakey wakey folks
john demerais
Pity you guys aren’t as tolerant of Muslims living in the West as you are of Muslims abroad.
Muslims protesting cartoons.. bad
Muslims executing people for religous reasons..not so bad.
I say cut and run.
Posted by steve in bc at March 25, 2006 12:41 AM +
“The Sacred Muslim Practice of Beheading”
Killing by Beheading is Islamic! By Syed Kamran Mirza Syed_mirza …
Beheading was widely used in Europe, Asia and Africa (Muslim and non-Muslim alike) until … The Sacred Muslim Practice of Beheading, By Andrew G. Bostom: …
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/SKM40715.htm – 43k –
“Illegal occupiers” in Iraq…bad
“Illegal occupiers” in Iraq rescuing CPT…not so bad.
Martin B
“I have absolutely no problem supporting our forces in Afganistan right now”
Well thats not was i was getting from your previous postings Martin. You called several times for our “immediate” withdraw.
All I was saying is that we should not just give up on our troops or their mission because some adversity pops up. Like Kate said, “democracy is a process, not a destination” we need to be with these people through that process, supporting and guiding and yes protecting. Otherwise the lives that have been spent up to now will have been all for naught.
I just wanted to know if you were a pacifist, because that has a big impact on your opinion of the Afghan mission, and war in general. Sorry for any offense.
Ryan, if the Afgans don’t want to do any better than putting Christians to death for their beliefs after having more than three years to build a better society and they won’t work on a permanent fix to the issue then I’m not interested in seeing more Canadian lives lost. It’s time to see some commitment from our Afgan hosts.
Steve d somehow has inserted the idea of evolution into this topic. And perhaps he has a point – the adherents of Islam and evolution have similarities. Both are glass houses, protected by force of violence,
Steve, if evolution/science is the hallmark of mans intelligence versus say, Christianity, then why did Crick, a co-discoverer of DNA, suddenly change his mind about it – coming up with an exotic explanation of life, otherwise known as intelligent design/panspermia?
Also, look up Zipf’s language law and see how it applies to what is known as ‘junk’ DNA.
In other words, start using your brain, your ramblings are pathetic.
Penny
Read Maranatha. I rest my case regarding fundamentalists.
Also, I am not anti-American, I am not in the habit of hate. I do not hate any nationality or race. However, there are individuals in your country who are…well, not very likeable. Unfortunately, some of them are in powerful positions where they are doing much damage.So if you want to label me anything, and you seem to need to, then label me a Canadian who cares enough about America to get angry when it’s leaders are screwing their own country.
Penny as far as me being a radio with one station, well, to me, I think you kinda have that problem too. I at least read and consider the other side instead of dismissing them just because they come from the other side.
Maranatha and pastorwally
It just may be that I have more faith than you. I believe the God is much more creative than the simplistic Biblical discription.
I believe that God is continually giving us more insight into His greatness through science and the arts. Evolution is God’s way of showing us HOW he creates and that His creation is ongoing.
Think about the Big Bang Theory,if the explosion had been larger or smaller by even a miniscule amount the earth would not exist. Now isn’t that a lot more exciting and fantastic than the static Bible version?