87 Replies to “Y2Kyoto: I Say “Bring It On””

  1. IF you feel like puking your midnight snack, read the comments from the AGW Fascists following Rex’s excellent commentary,

  2. Who knows where Joe & Jane Uninformed Canadian sits on this issue but my sense is that once it begins hitting their own wallets then they will cry foul en masse. Only then will politicians get scared.
    In any case, I cannot imagine that Harper & co. will hurt the economies of Alberta & Saskatchewan.
    By the way, didn’t we have an election pretty much on this issue less than a year ago and some guy named … what was his name … Stephane Dion vow to tax the hell out of Western Canadians … and he lost?!?

  3. “Bring It On”
    If only to rid ourselves of the House of Windsor it would be worth it.
    That, and I have several tires waiting to burn.

  4. If such a situation were to arise, where the west wanted out of Canada, I would be packing up my family and moving to Alberta.

  5. If such a situation were to arise, where the west wanted out of Canada, I would be packing up my family and moving to Alberta.

  6. Rex does get it. Glad to know some Easterners do.
    Thing is though the West is developing on its own naturally as a separate political entity. Mainly because of the Ontario centric views, with the European politics that go with it.
    We don’t like Socialism.
    Where North Americans not Europeans anymore.
    Not for a long time.
    This gives me some hope the divide will heal. Time will out the answer.
    JMO

  7. I did scan through many of the comments and I must say I’m rather heartened by the change in tone as compared to what would have been the typical commentary a year or two ago. ‘Climate change skepticism’ seems to be in ascension; considering this IS the Globe and Mail.
    What did disappoint me was visiting Prince Charles’ pronouncements on the issue mere moments after being put behind a microphone in this country. He could (should) have kept his message bland and apolitical but he had to pipe up about “Climate change being the most critical issue of our times…bla-bla-blah…” and I was reaching for the mute button right there.
    Soon to see the site counter here flip past 15 million! Astounding.

  8. Talked to my Dad last year when the Coalition thing was happening.
    I call him rarely, when major events occur, like the Red Sox winning the World Series.
    I said separation.
    He said me too.
    I said Manitoba might have to knock on the door like in 1949.
    He still hasn’t moved.
    But things can change.

  9. Rex seems to believe that the exploitation of our (your?) oilsands is a purely Canadian decision. But we have become the most important foreign source of oil for the USA. Turn the tap off and the GIs will invade Fort McMurray.

  10. There is no time left for posturing or obfuscating in the Harper cabinet.
    They need to send a message to the world that Canada does not want to play along with the crazy people any more, and the best place to do it is Copenhagen in December.
    Just lay it out there, the CPC stands for the majority of people who are fed up with the vast over-hype of climate change, and don’t want to see our national security and prosperity endangered just to feed Suzuki’s enormous ego.
    Then if the Americans can find somebody to say the same thing using Al Gore as their example, I think our political independence and freedom stand some sort of chance. Otherwise, we might as well start learning to speak Chinese.

  11. I hope I am wrong in this area. I hear that the Cons are going to copy the US Cap and Trade that the Prez wants to impose. This will be the last spike in the coffin before the Americans wake up. Virtually a carbon tax on everything – money goes to Gor’s pockets as a filter on way to China and India.
    Also, the Cons might compromise on the global warming and, again hope I am wrong, will go along with the Global Warming summit. They already showed their support by rejecting the world’s foremost polar bear expert on a panel because he does not believe with Global Warming.
    Adler posed a question last week; “If Iffy said that Canada would NOT support Climate change/Global Warming policy, would you vote for him?” I would say if the Cons, who all know the truth but dare not speak the truth in the matter, vote on following the rest of the world – like the LIEberals did with Kyoto Accord- then I hope there would be a lot of Independents running.
    The Central Canadians will get their way – hope Alberta/Saskatchewan cut off their gas and oil as a result – then Western Canada goes its own way. It will be like East and West Berlin, people moving from one part of the country to the other. The ones I feel sorry for are NFL and NS. They are just starting to develop their off shore drilling, and they will be the next target. It will be like the bumper stickers in the ’80’s that stated that the Eastern people should freeze.
    By Christmas we will know if the Cons will throw the West under the bus and spark a separation feeling throughout Western Canada. If Harper were smart, he would speak about the global Warming/Climate Change as he did before taking over from the LIEberals… This is nothing but a money grab by the poor countries (China, Russia, India ????) from the developed countries.
    Yet the Cons have no courage and are afraid of public opinion (religion of Global Warming and fear mongering) and not stand for what they know is right. I guess the rest of the country will know what it will be like when there are no more transfer funds from the West (mainly Alberta). Just when Sask. And BC are starting to develop their oil industry.
    But the world will be safer without Canada’s 3% of Carbon foot-print. It might save the planet, but I hope the environMENTALists’ freeze. I have yet to see any of them burn their driver’s licences by the millions protesting use of oil/gas. Perhaps they should cut off their erctricity also, so they will not pollute more.

  12. Would the Republic of Western Canada deport all the Suzuki types to NFL or, better yet, Greenland? Win-win eh….

  13. Imposing an Obama-sque carbon tax on the West will be the best thing to ever happen to the West. Rex has it right, it will cause the rapid raise of an un-stoppable western independence movement that no teary-eyed Quebec nationalist has ever dared to dream.
    Don’t get me wrong, I am canadian and like the idea of Canada as defined by its present physical boundaries.
    But if lifestyle choices are to be:
    – enforced by Al-Gore (and crew), or
    – individuals themselves
    and for the latter the shape of Canada will change, well then Google maps is gonne be busy.
    I would like to take this opportunity to put in a request that we make at least one of sask’s border a little squiggly. Just because our roads are straight doesn’t mean our borders have to be (perhaps we could invite Montana to join?).

  14. Rex is spot on (as usual).
    The Law of Unintended Consequences is such that the green lobby could well end up destroying Canada in their attempts to “save” it.
    However, I am amused at western separatists who naively believe they can have their cake and eat it too.
    As Rex pointed out in mentioning that National Geographic photo spread, it’s powerful environmental lobbies in the US, with the ear of the present administration, that threaten our “dirty oil” revenues. That golden US market could dry up quickly under Obama.
    At the moment, the four western provinces represent about 30 percent of Canada’s population. As four American “states”, they’d represent barely three percent of the US population. Alberta going it alone would represent little more than one percent.
    If you think you have no voice in Canada due to those “Central Canadian bastards”, wait’ll you see how Washington treats you.
    Still, this is just so Canadian, isn’t?
    At a time when our economy is doing better in relative terms than our southern neighbour’s, when China and India are beginning to really come into their own as new markets and potentially lucrative energy partners for Canada, we’re busy tinkering ourselves out of existence.

  15. I just want to make sure I get teh western republic’s passport when you seperate, not the ROC’s.

  17. Y2Kyoto victims.
    Economic suicide is a self-inflicted wound.
    “On October 31, 2009, the once largest aluminum plant in the world will shut down. With it goes another American industry and more American jobs. The Columbia Falls Aluminum Company in Montana will shut down its aluminum production because it cannot purchase the necessary electrical power to continue its operations.
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/berry-e1.1.1.html

  19. At the moment, the four western provinces represent about 30 percent of Canada’s population. As four American “states”, they’d represent barely three percent of the US population. Alberta going it alone would represent little more than one percent.
    Wrong.
    The 12 US senators we would have, 2 for each province/state, would be close to 10% of the current 100 U.S. senators.
    That ain’t peanuts, not that I’d advocate joining the U.S. in it’s current disheveled condition, and “we” aren’t tinkering ourselves out of existence, the East is threatening our livelihood, again.
    Enough already.

  20. Quebec has been the tail wagging this dog since I was a little kid. (Which is a long damn time.) Today we are living the result, and frankly I think we could have done a lot better.
    I think we could do a lot worse than having Alberta and Sask wag the dog for a change. At least y’all actually produce something besides hot air and welfare claims.

  22. not that I’d advocate joining the U.S. in it’s current disheveled condition ~ Oz
    I hadn’t heard that we’ve been invited.

  23. A lot of the comments on Rex’s site take the need for any green action at all as a given.
    Some are conciliatory and say “let’s compromise” and share the cost of green action across the country.
    There simply isn’t any reason to act at all.
    AGW is a hoax.
    As an Albertan, I don’t see any room or need to compromise with a hoax.
    I hadn’t heard that we’ve been invited.
    ~glasnost
    Neither had I.
    It’s just a shibboleth that keeps getting trotted out by people who think Alberta or western seperatism can be treated as a joke.

  24. I would be a violent ,and bloody separation at best …is say “BRING IT ON ” .
    Kate said it perfectly in the last post ..”there is not one problem outlined in this report that can’t be solved by drawing a line through a map ”
    Paul in calgary.

  25. One Western Canadian who does not get it is Regina’s own Ralph Goodale. That phoney showed himself to be aligned with Ontario Lieberals when he signed the Coalition document that would have disenfranchised Western Canada.
    I was hoping that Fiacco would not run again as Mayor of Regina and challenge Goodale in the Wascana riding.
    The kool-aid drinkers in that rider really need to wake up.

  26. JJM: “The Law of Unintended Consequences”
    Is it so unintended? There are plenty in the environmental movement who hate capitalism and the wealth and prosperity it brings with a passion. They’re not called watermelons for nothing.

  27. Watched a Zeitgeist video on Youtube starring David deRothschild as the environmentalist concerned with getting children involved in making the changes and getting parents to “shut-up”.
    His father is said to be the (real) richest man in the world, a world banker, secret owner/controller of the Fed. He’s not listed in Forbes Magazine though. Said to own/control nearly half of the worlds economy, est. worth 500 trillion dollars. Doesn’t own Google though, at least not yet.

  28. “I hadn’t heard that we’ve been invited.”
    Actually you’ve been DISinvited, what with all the dirty oil crap floating about.
    The same cultural forces at work trying to rip off the West in Canada are -running the show- in the USA right now. Personally I think this is their last hurrah, because crushing national debt, crushing taxes and a crushed health system aren’t going to make them any friends. Luckily we managed to dump the Liberals just in time, so any carbon tax crap will most likely be for show. If not, I’d vote Wild Rose.
    IMHO…
    In Canada to date things have been arranged to suit the large entrenched monetary interests in Ontario and Quebec. The big get bigger, the small get booted out to become big in the USA and then muscle their way in back home.
    As Kate’s post makes clear, the big in Ontario ain’t that big anymore. They moved all their jobs away to South Carolina and then to China. Currently the situation with the car companies is hilarious, everything they do could be done for one tenth the cost overseas. Soon it will be, no matter what anybody says. You are going to be driving cars from China in ten years, like it or not.
    What do we have left here in Canada? Trees, ore and more f-ing oil than what’s in the Middle East. And where is all that oil? Out west.
    At some point the balance is going to tip. The large vested interests are going to up stakes and move to where the money is, same as they did when they left Montreal. The 905/416 voting block will form a permanent socialist rump, as their jobs and relevance bleed away to where the work is getting done.
    That’s what’s going to happen. Whether it manages to happen without lines getting drawn on the map, that’s another question. I guess it depends on how determined the West is to keep from becoming the same kind of socialist sink hole that Ontario/Toronto is. (Most everybody in Ontario hates Toronto, btw. Its where our taxes go to die.)
    I will say that one nice thing about drawing a line, is that you get to decide who’s going to be allowed in to your country. That’s a pretty important thing, as recent history indicates. If you draw a line you can keep out all the university educated white middle class Liberal/NDP voters that are currently f-ing up my province. (Ha, you trolls thought I was going to say immigrants didn’t you? That’s because you’re morons.)
    Also, if you manage to keep personal freedom and the sovereignty of the individual as a central premise in your tiny new country, given the added attraction of more oil than Arabia, large swaths of the central USA and western Ontario may soon be asking if -they- can join -you-.

  29. Rex is right. Hope the CPC has not fallen for this warming hoax and is only paying lip service until enough people wake up.
    I have been a monarchist for ever, but that wing nut Prince Charlie can get lost.

  30. Why wouldn’t the Western Provinces become their own country? They have blue water access to the part of the world that is growing (ie. Asia) vice the one that is slowly dying (ie. Europe). They would have the ability to pick and choose the best parts of Canadian and American governmental systems (like a very stringent immigration system).
    There would be a huge exodus of Newfoundlanders from Canada to the new country–in order to keep their jobs. Many central Canadians who like the idea of working for a living and not paying layabouts to watch TV would move to the new country (I’ll be one of them–I’ve got an in–my oldest son was born in Alberta).
    So Central Canada would be primarily made up of government employees(all levels), welfare recipients, unemployed auto workers and Quebecois (who’ll threaten separation every 5 to 10 yrs and enact discriminatory laws on its Anglophone population).
    Hmmm…memo to western provinces…could you PLEASE move your timetable forward and make this happen sooner? I would respectfully suggest keeping the monarchy (for now) in order to get automatic recognition from Britain. If the Brits don’t recognize…then dump the monarchy. However, keeping the Queen on the new country’s currency would give its populace a feeling of continuity–the only major (welcome) change would be the disappearance of French from government buildings, offices, answering machines and money (to denote the new country from Canada).

  31. The National Energy Program was a lesson that Albertans learned deep in their bones. Any program that unduly punishes the west is simply off the table.

  32. Another excellent piece by Rex Murphy. He makes me proud to be a Newfoundlander.
    The best hope we have here is that hard-working Ontarians wake up to any scent of government policy that penalizes the West as part of AGW hysteria. For if the West goes down Ontario will be absolutely SLAMMED.
    If Ontario screams at government, they will surely listen due to their 103 seats. The key is to get Ontario to scream the correct message; the one that ENABLES oil exploration and development.
    Shortsighted, at best, is any Canadian who endorses hobbling a major national economic engine for the sake of environmental hysteria.
    As for the CPC, I’m still waiting for a Vaclav Klaus-type denunciation of AGW politics. It’s a faint hope, but I am so desiring that Harper or a cabinet minister will grow a pair and cut through the propaganda.

  34. Kathryn: “Is it [The Law of Unintended Consequences] so unintended? There are plenty in the environmental movement who hate capitalism and the wealth and prosperity it brings with a passion. They’re not called watermelons for nothing.”
    Yes, it is unintended.
    Amazing as it might seem, the wondrous environmentalists have no better idea about how the future will unfold than the rest of us. The consequences of their actions might well be realities that they never saw coming.
    The intellectuals who hastened the advent of the Russian Revolution eventually found themselves facing Lenin’s firing squads.
    It was always thus.

  35. Alberta Saskatchewan and Manitoba should go it alone and leave BC with Suzuki. a nice energy corridor (take the yukon too.) maybe the US could demand a right of way on the Alaska highway. after all they built it.

  36. [quote]What did disappoint me was visiting Prince Charles’ pronouncements on the issue mere moments after being put behind a microphone in this country. He could (should) have kept his message bland and apolitical but he had to pipe up about “Climate change being the most critical issue of our times…bla-bla-blah…” and I was reaching for the mute button right there.[/quote]
    Donny M,
    Surely you know that this Royal has invested the Crown Jewels in the AGW Scam… Time for the mere chattels, of the Commonwealth, to be educated in the power/wisdom of the blue bloods.
    Charles is in Canada for that ONE reason and only that reason.. He is a partner with the Pig-Beast Gore….. both paid whores of Soros

  37. What I really like about the Wildrose Party is the fact that so-called “rednecks” out here, voted in a lady to lead the party. I’m hoping that the party grows and that Lady leads this province at least, out of Confederation.
    It was sorta mentioned in the leaders’ debate in Calgary but nobody ran with it. There are more important things to do first.

  38. There are more important things to do first.
    ~po’ed in AB
    Gotta build that firewall first that Mr. Stelmach said was unnecessary because it was just, “fighting past battles.”
    Notice from the comments on Rex’s article that many Easterners still think the oil is “Canada’s” resource and doesn’t belong to the provinces per the 1867 Confederation Act and then accuse western separatists as being traitors when the ones who want the federal government to invade provincial jurisdiction are the ones who are really renouncing Confederation.

  39. The Wildrose Alliance is the perfect party to stand up and shout loudly that AGW is a socialist wealth redistribution scam, and that Alberta will manage its own enery/environmental issues, and will not be participating in any tax schemes in the name of fake science and propaganda.
    If a true grass roots conservative party from Alberta cant rear up and shout the truth, we cant expect that anyone else will.

  41. Where to begin? Kate, how about this little article from the NYT (the NYT!!)
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/business/energy-environment/03gore.html?_r=1
    It actually talks about how much money Gore has and will make from the snake-oil he is selling. Chairman Mo, Soros and Gore enriching themselves by spreading misery and “Dr.” Suzuki shilling for it here in Canada.
    As for the latest report from “Dr.” Suzuki and the Pembina institute, who do you think really funded it? Banks have been used in the past for fronts from wealthy clients trying to get around certain inconveniences. I would not be surprised one bit if Chairman Mo is not behind this one too.
    I have been a somewhat frequent poster on this site since I fell in love with it (and Kate) a few months ago. On it, I have truly found people who want the truth and facts to come forth. On this site, I have said many times; Canada does not work. It is untennable at best and completely disfunctional in reality.
    Perhaps the most galling to me was Gilles Duceppe castigating the government because it won’t sign the Copenhagen deal because it would be beneficial to Quebec and detrimental to Alberta. MR. DUCEPPE, WHO DO YOU THINK HAS PROPPED UP YOUR WHINY, IMMORAL WELFARE STATE FOR THE LAST HALF CENTURY!!!!!!!!!!
    Either Quebec goes and we can save what is left or truly the writing is on the wall.
    Chris in the Bridge
    P.S. God save the Queen. Let us keep the Monarchy at least in remembrance of all those that fought and died under the Union Jack when Canada was worth keeping.

  42. No question Rex gets it. As for the inbred idiot Prince of ears, he is a poster child for laws against families procreating among themselves.

  43. If a true grass roots conservative party from Alberta cant rear up and shout the truth, we cant expect that anyone else will.
    ~ward
    ward, I don’t think the WAP needs to fight an uphill battle against the media by trumpeting that particular cause just now.
    They need to get elected first.
    Can’t you just see candidates from the Alberta PCs, NDP, and Liberals wittling down the image of the WAP as the only conservative party by making them look like radicals to uninformed voters on this single issue?
    The elected Alberta government always has the “notwithstanding clause” in the constitution to fall back on if need be.

  44. Well said Rex Murphy!
    Keltie Zubko has the answer …………….
    Vol. XXVII, No. 10
    October 2009
    “Separate or Surrender”
    The Western Separatist has
    been published by
    W.S.P. Ltd. since 1983.
    Address all
    correspondence to:
    WSP, Box 101,
    255 Menzies Street,
    Victoria, B.C.
    Western Canada
    V8V 2G6.
    A one-year subscription
    is $15.00. Members of the
    Western Canada Concept
    receive the WS with their
    membership.
    Send e-mail to
    kzubko@shaw.ca.
    Visit the WCC on the web at:
    http://www.westcan.org
    Phone us at:
    250-727-3438
    or fax us at:
    250-479-3294

  45. Terence Corcoran: Climatism And The New Green Industrial State
    [ Big business and the globe’s greatest corporate powers are marching in lock step with governments and environmentalists to impose climate policy on the world and its people. At the Copenhagen climate conference in December, no group looks forward more fervently than big business to a global carbon control agreement filled with firm targets, big tax increases and massive subsidies for special interests all over the world.]
    [ And smack in the middle of this global PR machine, shifting the gears and greasing the wheels, are the world’s leading environmentalists and green NGOs: The World Wildlife Fund, David Suzuki, the Sierra Club, Environmental Defence, Forest Ethics, the Pembina Institute and many more. Together with industry, they pressure government in the creation of the green industrial state.]
    The Gores and Suzukis of the world will do any thing to keep the scam going. Anything ! Including lying.
    They know that if(and it will eventually) this scam fails, there will be many people and corporations and gov’ts and media taking the mother-of-all-baths.
    The anger directed toward these Kult Leaders will be so immense it will be untenable for them. They will be wishing they were dead.

  46. For those of us on this site who haven’t quite figured out what those behind AGW are all about let me make it clear. Global Warming is the vehicle that power hungry men are using to attempt to control the economies of the world. Once they have control of the economies, they essentially have world domination. This is about what it is and always has been about – money and power. They want to impoverish the great masses of the world in order to gain our money for themselves and impose their rule on us. Global Warming is a hoax – it is their vehicle – and our populations are doing this to themselves. The west should separate from Canada. No question.
    The Confederation was doomed from the start but even more so once Trudeau and his crap policies and Mulroney (who let the BQ into parliament) came along. We should do it fast, we should do it hard, and we should never ever look back. Then we would perhaps get our rights and freedoms back where we want them – in our own hands.

  47. Goreacle Report: Al moves on.
    Gore tosses CO2 into the ash heap of his history:
    “”Over the years I have been among those who focused most of all on CO2, and I think that’s still justified,” he told the magazine. “But a comprehensive plan to solve the climate crisis has to widen the focus to encompass strategies for all” of the greenhouse culprits identified in the Nasa study.”
    “Gore acknowledged to Newsweek that the findings could complicate efforts to build a political consensus around the need to limit carbon emissions.”
    …-
    “”He is one of the only politicians that takes the time to actually talk to scientists who are producing the cutting-edge stuff and he comes in with questions. He doesn’t ask us how our results impinge on a particular policy he actually asks about science,” said Gavin Schmidt, a climatologist at Nasa’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, who spoke to Gore along with colleagues four or five times for the book.
    >>> “Nobody that we have dealt with has ever taken as much time to understand the subtlety of the science and all the different complications and what it all means as Al Gore.”
    Those conversations led Gore to politically inconvenient conclusions in this new book. In his conversations with Schmidt and other colleagues at the beginning of the year, Gore explored new studies – published only last week – that show methane and black carbon or soot had a far greater impact on global warming than previously thought. Carbon dioxide – while the focus of the politics of climate change – produces around 40% of the actual warming.
    Gore acknowledged to Newsweek that the findings could complicate efforts to build a political consensus around the need to limit carbon emissions.
    “Over the years I have been among those who focused most of all on CO2, and I think that’s still justified,” he told the magazine. “But a comprehensive plan to solve the climate crisis has to widen the focus to encompass strategies for all” of the greenhouse culprits identified in the Nasa study.
    The former vice-president has been working behind the scenes to try to nudge the White House and Congress to move forward on a 920-page proposed law to cut America’s greenhouse gas emissions and encourage its use of clean energy sources like solar and wind power.”
    “Al Gore’s Inconvenient Truth sequel stresses spiritual argument on climate
    Nobel winner adapts fact-based message to reach those who believe they have a moral duty to protect the planet in Our Choice: A Plan to Solve the Climate Crisis”
    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Environment/2009/11/03/11617491-reuters.html

  48. The WAP is already cast as a “fringe, right-wing party” by the media that counts, in places that believe that the status quo should rule.
    I’m a member. We don’t need any more “labels” affixed to the Party and what it represents. As was mentioned above, we need to get elected and right now, firewalls & separation should be off the table. However, a coherent response to the AGW fraud would be a more defining statement than the wishy-washy, Big Government one in current fashion with the CPC.
    Remember, there are really only two faces of the Party right now, Hinman & Smith, so if any of you posting here live in AB & have no political baggage, I’d suggest throwing your hat into the ring and run as a WAP MLA. We have three years to build this Party up.

  49. To blanks, who said in his November 3, 2009 9:05 AM post that the father of David deRothschild is “Said to own/control nearly half of the worlds economy, est. worth 500 trillion dollars”, the world’s economy is only roughly one tenth of that amount or about 50 trillion.
    I have three tips for you.
    1 Tear yourself away from Youtube videos long enough to properly educate yourself.
    2 Discontinue any recreational drug use you might be involved in and,
    3 If your into model building or some other activity that involves strong glues, keep a window open and make sure the place is properly aired out.
    You’re welcome.

  50. “Gore acknowledged to Newsweek that the findings could complicate efforts to build a political consensus around the need to limit carbon emission.”
    IOW, the world knows CO2 is an essential, harmless gas, of which the world needs more, not less, and that it will, indeed, be hard to build a consensus around a known scam.
    IOW, the jig is up – let the fraud-suits begin.

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