All those who scream about Hummers and wasteful consumers may be discussing their neighbors, but they aren’t discussing the US as a whole. For about 9 years gasoline consumption has been dropping, and in 2007 consumption was the lowest for ten years.
Gas consumption in the US is not price invariant at all. Sales of gas-efficient cars have been steadily increasing, and those fuel-efficient cars will stay on the road for years to come. It’s likely that this trend has multiple causes, among which are real declining incomes for a large section of the population, a growing number of retirees who are not forced to drive to work, home workers, and sincere efforts to conserve by a portion of the population. It may also reflect a shift in jobs toward major urban areas in which mass transport is a viable option for more workers.
Regardless, the idea that gas taxes need to be raised to force conservation is a stunningly stupid one. It appears that current gas prices are causing conservation, and that wasteful consumption is restricted to portions of the population that can frankly afford to pay higher taxes without changing their habits. It also appears that US efforts to conserve are not going to affect world trends much – the growth is coming from other areas.
(Emphasis mine.)
But…But…But…The Americans are EVIL!!!
It is all their fault…this can’t be so???
Kinda like the taxes on smokes going up every year with consumption dropping. By the time the last guy puts out his last smoke it’ll be $100 a pack.
You only have to look at various countrys in Europe to understand that high gas prices has very little effect on consumption or speed.
In 2000, I spent a week in France and Belgium on their 130 kmh posted limit highways doing 160 to 170 kmh to stay in the traffic flow at $2 a litre. That is TWO DOLLARS a litre eight years ago.
If we traveled the whole day to get somewhere, it was a guarenteed $100 fill up.
Anyone who reads the Tehran Times — and admittedly there’s precious little to read unless you’re obsessed with badger culls in Blighty or Parthian/Sassanian archaeological sites — knows that Iran is betting on a long-term average price for oil of $65-70 per barrel. Why? Because of the cost of production for the Alberta tar sands, plus an adequate return on investment.
I seriously doubt the veracity of that post.
“It also appears that US efforts to conserve are not going to affect world trends much – the growth is coming from other areas.”
I’m sorry that is NOT possible. America is evil and is destroying the world, it is just not possible that we are not to blame. *sarcasm off*
I thought it most revealing a little further down the post that the spending trends are indicative of real incomes shrinking in the US. I think this is a much, much more pressing issue for our continental economy as a whole than fuel prices – who has a car when over 80% of our income is devoted to making ends meet?
To say real incomes are falling for a large section of the US population is BS.
qs says “I seriously doubt the veracity of that post.”
Yet it seems you seriously believe that Quebec has an economic future as a separate country. Other than famine, I mean.
May I say, I find your statement seriously amusing.
Now, The Phantom, don’t pick on Johnny Crapaud. There’s more to a nation than economic viability. Imagine the gloire of Crecy, Agincourt, Blenheim, Verdun, Dien Bien Phu… And of course the uniquely Quebecois pro-Nazi insurrection at Arvida during World War II.
Supplemental: That’s not to alienate our naval friends by forgetting The Saints, The Nile, Trafalgar, etc. Sorry, salts.
well increased gas taxes MUST be good for us here in BC because they just hit us with a Carbon tax . . . . and I coulda spent the money on long underwear to protect me from the impending freezing era.
Most people who can reasonably take mass transit to work will – it becomes unreasonable to do so if you are in a business like sales or on-site support where you need a car all day, or if transit takes significantly longer than driving and parking. When I attended UBC, the drive was 35-45mins, 50 at the worst, whereas the best case was 100 minutes on the bus, each way. No way was I going to piss away an extra two hours a day riding the bus with the great masses of the unwashed (literally). Now I live in a city with real public transit, and I love my commute – 35 minutes – two trains with an underground connection. I have fun driving my SUV on weekends – going to the ski hill or driving to a state park to take the god swimming.
Busses are NOT mass transit.
there has always been a problem with mass transit, it aint where your at and it aint where you are going too.
the best use of fuel would be to put four lane blacktop straight between all locations. but it doesnt work they way does it? a funny thing called economics is the real driver and whether the greenies like it or not it is the ultimate driver as to success or failure.
Who cares?
Ribbit, ribbit.
I think the post was wrong. If you go to the EIA (US Government energy agency) website, you can download the longterm history of US gasoline consumption. Click on “finished motor gasoline” and you will get the amount of product supplied since 1990. It’s been going up, the 4 week moving average having started off at 6.7mm bbls/week and more recently being in the mid 9’s. You can pull it down in a spreadsheet and chart it if you wish…but it’s been an upward slope, albeit flattening out this past number of months.
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_wpsup_k_w.htm
Uh, doesn’t the fact in this post (gas consumption is falling) contradict the conclusion (No need for gas taxes)?
when will they break out THAT carburator that will make a 1958 Edsel V8 with siezed brakes , 3 busted plugs, a slipping tranny, going up hill in the dead of winter through 5 feet of snow, do 109 miles to the gallon. I’v heard soooooo much about over the years, that I know it must exist:-))))))
sure gas consumption is falling, and has been pretty much since the 1970s (with a blip during the mid to late 80s), that really isn’t at question.
However, what you fail to mention is the per capita consumption in the US (and Canada for that matter) is much higher than anywhere else, by a significant amount. Increased gas tax would directly affect the consumption per capita, which is what needs to change in North America. That can also be achieved through more fuel efficient vehicles, something that up to present day most consumers haven’t felt the need to demand from companies…..why? because our fuel is so cheap, there has been no incentive, something increased tax would create.
Gym,
Yeah, invented in Manitoba and the patents were purchased by Chevron. Kidding, but Chevron did buy Nickel Hydried patents and Sony battery plant had to shut down and limit production to plants in Japan.
Chevron Coal is the promised profit maker these days. Shhh, everyone thinks it*s still refined gas and diesel.
==================================
Coal remains vital fuel mix in energy-hungry world
By JUDITH KOHLER
updated 7:42 a.m. PT, Wed., Feb. 13, 2008
DENVER – Rising demand for energy means coal will remain a vital part of the mix of fuels, and the mining industry needs to do a better job of spreading that message and responding to environmental concerns, the chief executive of CHEVRON Mining said Tuesday.
Mark Smith said the industry has to address concerns that carbon dioxide from coal-fired power plants is contributing to climate change while also getting across that coal and other fossil fuels will be needed to meet the increasing demand for energy.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23145791/
====================================== AP
Translation: PR is essential!
Forget GW! Carbon belching is out. Carbon collection is in…but costly. = TG
Re: carbon taxes and BC budget. If those taxes don’t towards developing non-fossil fuel technologies, I want politicians to go to jail. Why, because if the money is spent elsewhere without research, then as far as I’m concerned Gordon (Happy in Hawaii) Campbell and his crew have misappropriated. I don’t mean BS carbon sequestration (yes, by all means create a mine shaft full of toxic waste), and feel good projects.
I want to see my extra tax dollars (revenue neutral my a**, unless I bike to work) strictly spent on new, workable technology. If they think they are going to go green by reducing consumption via punishment taxes, then they are dreaming, or have joined Campbell in Hawaii for happy hour.
If politicians insist on these top down “solutions” to “combat” climate change, then we must hold their feet to the fire, big time.
Unfortunately, our only alternative here is Carol James of NDP, so far quite an ineffective politician. Hard to understand, after all she has political experience in local school boards.
Sigh.
Shamrock got it right. Let Suzuki lead the charge of politicos goin to jail.
BC is setting the bar pretty high.
Great Expectations…………
Sean S – get real, gas consumption in the advanced industrialized nations are a lot higher, as it should be, than in the Third World. We have materials to truck, products to get to market, services to provide, people to get to real jobs, etc. Los Angeles is going to burn more gas than Timbuktu. That’s a no brainer.
Why would taxes be a better catalyst for change than the marketplace? Americans are ditching SUV’s and scaling down. We’ve been through this drill before in the Carter era. And, gas prices are a little more complicated than the taxes levied. Government is never the solution. The environment is cleaner not because of gov’t, but, because of affluence. China, the world’s worst polluter, will clean itself up as it becomes more affluent. Wealthier people demand more cleanliness.
Kate,
I know you try hard to publish accurate information, but this post is just wrong.
Here’s the link: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/04/us_gasoline_con.html
It clearly shows that US gas consumption has risen in 5 of the last 7 years, and the rise has far outpaced the fall. My wife works for two car dealers in Toronto; sales of minivans and SUV’s far outstrip those of sedans and compacts. Just don’t see how the OP’s “facts” can be correct.
Did anyone notice that the carburated V8 beaters that regular people drive have (with a few lovingly maintained exceptions) been replaced by fuel injected 4 cylinder beaters? No more Plymouth Gran Fury for your first car, now its a Taurus of Civic.
Multiply that by a 100 million and there’s your difference all by itself
KevinB, what else do you expect from these people?
But it really is amazing that American consumption has increased in a Wal-Mart economy. How they can still afford to run those Hummers while making eight bucks an hour is simply amazing. How many forgo paying for healthcare insurance for the fsmily to feed the SUV?
Uhhh. Libforlife. Here’s a newsflash pinhead troll. If you work for Walmart, you’ve actually got pretty damn good health insurance. That’a why so many seniors work there part time and why Walmart has pretty fair employee retention in the U.S.A.
But don’t bother with research, it’ll get in the way of the AGW theories. As well as all the other libforlies “truths”.
And no, I didn’t mislay a letter in the sentence above.
Uhhh. Libforlife. Here’s a newsflash pinhead troll. If you work for Walmart, you’ve actually got pretty damn good health insurance. That’s why so many seniors work there part time and why Walmart has pretty fair employee retention in the U.S.A.
But don’t bother with research, it’ll get in the way of the AGW theories. As well as all the other libforlies “truths”.
And no, I didn’t mislay a letter in the sentence above.
Libforlife:
I don’t know who the “these people” you refer to are, but in general, I find most of the people on this board to be fairly reasonable.
For example, I live in Toronto and work in marketing, but when I hear that Western farmers aren’t allowed to sell their wheat – which reached an all-time high today in the US of $11.50/bushel – to anyone but the Canada wheat board, who won’t even pay them $10/bushel; well, I don’t think that’s fair.
Oh, but farmers in Ontario and Quebec can sell their wheat to anyone they want at any price they want. Do you think if Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta had 150 seats in the House of Commons that this travesty would continue? If you started a business, how would you feel about the government telling you that you had to sell to them, at a price they set, which happens to be 15-20% less than the market rate? Please tell me you’d be jumping up and down with joy, since the Liberals have done their best to block Tory attempts to allow farmers to opt out of the wheat board.
Just asking, buddy.
Clamacious, you’ve got part of the story. Here’s the other part. http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/images/enlarged_uslightoutlook.jpg
There’s a growth of about 15 per cent in US fuel consumption since 1990, from the EIA source. As noted from the charts referenced, that’s mostly a result of the growth of the US vehicle fleet. Note that the mpg performance remains flat following performance improvements in 1980s and 1990s.
In short, claims of declining vehicle fuel performance are false. The trend has been flat for nearly 30 years despite increasing vehicle size. The growth in fuel consumption is the result of increased numbers of vehicles and increased mileage driven.
The original post was wrong on its facts. The conclusion oddly enough was correct because of Jevons Paradox. Increased efficiency means increased (not decreased) use.
Keep drinking that blue kool aid Sober2ndThought
http://walmartwatch.com/pages/cutting_corners_wal_marts_improved_2008_health_care_offerings_fall_short/
I can’t wait till Walmart starts selling SUVs. You can already get a 125cc dirt bike at Canadian Tire for $1200.
Lfl. Oh yeah, there’s an unbiased source. Even Dr. Fruitfly can qualify as a charitable donation, but these folks can’t. Wonder how big THEIR agenda is? From the looks of the entitlement driven “board” members I’m thinking there may be a small axe to grind.
Pssst. you’ve also NEVER, I flat f’ing guarantee, NEVER seen me advocate U.S. style healthcare. But
that’s not saying ours is good either.
Now, back on topic; while I tend to think that not many $8/hr employees drive Hummers, I could be wrong. Back in the ’80s fuel spike, one could buy luxo barges like Caddy Eldo’s for next to nothing all over the states. Maybe the same is happening with Hummers. Then you spend the payment $ on gas instead. AND warm up the Northern Hemisphere. See, win-win. But alas, none of this is really happening.
So, just more verbal diarrhea from a pinhead leftie troll. Be gone.