A Church Shoots Back

Little Known Facts 59 Comments

Here’s a detail they may have left out of your morning news. I know they left it out of mine;

New Life Church Pastor Brady Boyd is speaking to the media right now. He reports that the female church security guard rushed to the building when she heard shots ring out. She was stationed at a rotunda. She has a law enforcement background. “She probably saved a hundred lives.” They put the security/evacuation plan in place after hearing about the first church attack. Volunteers joined security details. Armed security all have licenses to carry.
Pastor Boyd: “We’re so grateful to God for giving us the wisdom to do that.”

Emphasis mine. More: When you legislate gun-free zones, only the mass murderers have guns.
h/t

59 Replies to “A Church Shoots Back”

  3. They (MSM types, governemnt types, police types) want you to not even be thinking about shooting back. “Run away!” is the official, approved action to be taken. That and only that is acceptable. You leave the old and the slow behind to die, that’s GOOD.
    I have never understood why that is, but it surely is that way. It isn’t a conspiracy, its an institutional culture. If you argue with them they think you’re insane. I should know, I’ve had the discussion often enough.

  4. So when is the Harper Government going to take a few baby steps in the right direction and undo Alan Rock’s “war on duck hunters” legislation?
    Temporary moratoriums on criminalizing around a million non-criminal Canadians with unregistered long guns is a long way from instituting packing laws.

  5. You’re right, Phantom.
    Teachers are bulldozed daily by the worst miscreants, for whom the seas part. Stand up to the kids–at your own risk. Will anyone else stand up to them? Nope. Safe schools? For the bullies.
    A propos of this: whatever has happened to the strung out–two extensions allowed–Falconer Inquiry, which was to “get to the bottom” of the murder of Jordan Manners in a Toronto high school? Last time I heard, Mr. Falconer said, “There are no villains in the piece.” One can only wonder at what other inanities will come out of this scam.
    Kyrie eleison.

  6. The Omaha mall where that shooting took place also had signs saying “No CCW” (carrying concealed weapon). It was a Gun-Free zone until the shooter arrived, and the army of police weapons.

  7. Well don’t waste time/bandwidth/breath informing hoplophobic leftards that ALL mass killers could have been stopped by one well placed shot from a CCW licenced civilian’s firearm…or an armed and trained security personel.
    Dialling 9-1-1 then assuming the fetal position, sucking your thumb and humming Kum-By-Ah while a prescription drug addled whacko kills your fellow citizens is a much easier form of civil responsibility to accept for the gutless left.

  8. Being a churchgoer myself, I cringe at how many people would be killed in a Canadian church if some wing nut went on a shooting rampage. For, with overwhelming assurance that nobody is going to return fire, the assailant would be left to fire until s/he expended all ammo or until unarmed persons use other means to disable and/or subdue him or her.
    I pray it never happens.
    Americans should thank God Almighty you have the Second Amendment. “From my cold dead hands” is exactly the mentality you need in order to protect your precious right to self-arm.

  9. Depends how much ammo he brings, Mark.
    Yes, I know that’s not funny. That is however the situation we as Canadians have allowed ourselves to be put in by 30 years of “Run Away!!!” as the only officially approved mode of self defense.
    Untrained people taken by surprise will never swarm an attacker, that isn’t how humans are built. First we wonder what’s going on, then we duck, then we try to get away, and after that, THEN a minority of the brave and stupid start thinking about taking out the attacker while a larger minority panic and run, panic and freeze, or just scream. From my reading about these mass shooting events, this process seems to take about five minutes.
    Plenty of time to expend a couple hundred rounds. Thank you, Lefties and peaceniks.

  11. This may sound like a tinfoil hat reach to most of you, but there is enough evidence on these mass killers to point a finger at the propensity and casual way in which psychotropic drugs are prescribed in the US.
    ….essentially every dork with a liberal arts letter after his name can prescribe these reality altering drugs (the genre has much in common with their prototype LSD)
    Basically America is being juiced up on psychogenic drugs for anything as menial as vanity agonizing over a bad hair day…School gym teachers can prescribe these dangerous psychoactive drugs.
    Independent and industry studies of long term use of these drugs leave no doubt that violent psychotic reactions are quite common in patientients treated with these drugs.
    Many if not all of the mass shooters have been on Psychotrophics or recently got off them after complaining of frequent vivid hallucinations….this drug connection can be traced back to even the late 70s Postal shootings where the postal union was the first to adopt Puschotropic use as a treatment for work stress.
    I have seen enough evidence to convince me that there is a direct correlation between the widespread irresponsible dosing with these psycho-active drugs and the escalation in violent public shooting sprees by delusional madmen.
    Part of this drug based shooting correlation is why we are safer in Canada than our American brethren…not because Canada has less guns ( per capata we have as much or more civilian firearms ownership as America)..it is that we have tighter control on the dispensation and profusion of these psycho-active drugs.
    Not only do people shoot people but drugs make people shoot people.
    I see the silent accessory in many if not all of these mass shootings is irresponsible pharmacological dispensation.
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56536
    Now flame away

  12. WLMR
    I have always wondered why the U.S. postal service had a seemingly disproportionate number of employees (or former) going on a workplace shooting spree.
    Your comment, “postal union was the first to adopt Puschotropic use as a treatment for work stress” helps shed light on the basis of the phrase “going postal”.

  13. Woodporter:
    Another famous workplace shooting ( far prior to the Postal prozac shootings) which occurred at a famous newspaper press room in the early 70s, was found to be the direct result of the shooter going berserk after long term use of a prototype Pfizer psychotropic that gave him paranoid psychotic reaction and shot coworkers he imagined were plotting against him.
    The suvivors and victim families sued and got a nolo contendere settlment out of court….it was later made public the Pfizer had bribed certain officials to keep this quiet and contained.
    This dangerous prototype drug went on to become commercially marketed under the trade mark “zoloft” and was the drug taken by the Jonesboro shooter and other multiple shooting-suicides as well as the recent Finnish school shooter…it is also a drug that has many lawsuits by widows who claim the drug was responsible for their spouse’s suicides.
    The things you don’t see in your standard MSM broadsheet….can kill you….drug induced psychotic reactions have had a large hand in the recent phenomena of mass shooting-suicides.

  14. Frankly, if you truly believe that you need to carry a gun around with you at all times just to feel safe, you’d probably be better off getting a hold of some Zyprexa.

  16. The MSM is too stupid to string together the obvious, that most of these rampaging homicidal narcissists stage their murder and mayhem at college campuses, schools, malls, churches, gun free places. It’s where you find unarmed sitting ducks.
    WL Mackenzie Redux – your theory on psychotropic drugs is erroneous. It’s not the use of those drugs that causes violence, quite the contrary, it’s the lack of those drugs with psychotic and those with a propensity toward violence that is the problem.
    There is absolutely no statistical or clinical evidence to what you are saying.

  19. Hmm, another tragic massacre whose perpetrator turns out to be Christian and home-schooled. No doubt he’s white too. Why hasn’t anyone connected the dots between that cultural group and their propensity to produce crazed rampaging gunmen?

  20. @Duponte: Because there’ll be a rate calculated. Also, the effect of fellow religionists that have explcitly distanced themselves from the incidents will be factored in.

  21. Catherine, I truly believe that if this is to be a free country, then you are not the one who should be making decisions about what I carry for self defense.
    That you would even make this comment in this thread indicates your disdain for your fellow man. It also indicates you have not a single clue what firearms are for or indeed any idea about self defense.
    You are a danger to yourself and others. Please go and study.

  22. An FBI member , newly enlisted and fully trained was troubled by one aspect . As a Christian man and a church goer it bothered him that at some point in his career he may have to use his firearm and take another persons life. He made an appointment to see his pastor and discuss this issue. His pastor told him to make those decisions according to his law enforcement training , and as far as the criminal he would have to shoot ….. he was going to hell anyway…..

  23. WL Mac, I think you’re having one of those correlation does not equal causation problems. If you look into it you’ll probably find a 1:1 correlation between mental illness and these mass shootings, with a less than 1:1 correlation for anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. Not a stretch to suspect a rampage shooter has a couple fries short of a Happy Meal.
    Neither of which means mental illness CAUSES these shootings. Remember, shooting rampages never used to happen. Wasn’t something one would ever think of, just like aircraft hijacking.
    My personal theory is that going on a rampage has become a popular style of suicide. Lots of attention, wall to wall TV coverage, you get instantly famous, and you get to take some of the b@st@rds with you. The Colorado mall shooter stated that was his intention in his suicide note.

  24. WL Mackenzie Redux said “This may sound like a tinfoil hat reach to most of you…”
    1st time poster, so I hope I get this right. So yes and no. I would say that you’re wrong on the who can prescribe thing, and you are probably wrong to believe that “culture of prescription” is substantially different on one side of the border than it is on the other. You may however, at least in my opinion, be correct in part about the cause.
    I have the good or ill fortune to be a clinical psychologist by trade, and in my experience psycho-pharmaceuticals are dispensed by the boatload, though not by gym teachers, for each and any unhappiness a person may bring in to their doctor’s office. In my experience, the dirty little secret is that it is the exception when clinical guidelines are followed, as it is when patients are actually given opportunity to form informed consent.
    Negative side effects, (for example, diabetes) are hidden or downplayed, even when the long-term outcome is potentially lethal. What has happened, again in my opinion, is that this enormous market has developed today, around human unhappiness. Human susceptibility to quackery with respect to psychological cures goes back 5000 years at least, without interruption, and in the case of many psychological maladies, the science has been bought and sold, to a degree that would make Global Warming enthusiasts green with embarrassment. It is all hidden under the cover of “doctor knows best,” when doctor doesn’t. Few people know that when your doctor says you have a chemical imbalance, he doesn’t mean it literally, but merely for “illustrative” purposes – unless you are unfortunate enough that your doctor is a dunce, in which case, I guess tough luck for you. I might also say the social doctrines of western society play an obvious role in providing support for this “pill for every ill” philosophy.
    For some reason, conservatives rarely see philosophical connections between the welfare state and the therapy state, and are often the first to accept the incentives thrown their way by the industry.
    Unfortunately, dismantling shoddy, and in may cases starkly unethical research practices occurring on a systemic and industry wide basis, supported by all encompassing financial and social incentives is far beyond the reach of the average doctor, whom, lets not forget, also has a vested financial interest.
    So…I think I’ve gone way too long here. If there is a link between these mental health services and these killers it is probably multiply determined – training in abdication of responsibility, for parents and children, by mental health professionals; the nasty effects of drug addiction on character, the prescription of drugs, often in ungodly and untested combinations that manifestly alter brain chemistry in children who have developing brains that are likely susceptible to down-regulation, and in a small minority of people an acute interference with natural brain function, affecting judgement, impulse control, executive functioning and so forth. This will include on rare occasions psychoses, though I don’t that is clearly linked to any of these rampages.

  26. WL Mackenzie’s position has merit. At the time of the Columbine and similar incidents , President Bill Clinton commissioned a study to gather information as to the cause and trigger of these mass killings. Researchers were expecting to find common denominators such as children from broken homes , abuse , poverty etc.
    Such was not the case. The research clearly showed the common denominator of these youth killers was that they were on prescription medications for treatment of ADD , depression etc.
    The next question was along the lines of these youths having had previous mental and emotional problems that were the underlying cause of these violent acts.
    Such was not the case. These medications had been prescribed because parents had complained to their doctors that these children were not paying enough attention in school , were too active at home etc. In other words these boys were typical normal children who wanted to be riding their bikes instead of doing homework etc .
    Furthermore , historical clinical studies on some of these drugs had shown that one in ten patients were known to show abnormal levels of anger as a side effect caused by the drugs.
    This information was presented to the President’s office and he chose to bury it because of all the ramifications and harm to the pharmacutical industry.
    The lead researcher (an MD) went ahead and published the information herself . If I can find the documents I will provide the link. She published it in book form.
    Many thanks

  27. Hey, Duponte, in a nation of over 300 million, it’s still very rare statistically that a mentally unstable person goes on a killing spree. That most of them are white could be that the majority of America is demographically white. So your point is what, exactly?
    Now, if we move globally to killing spree profiles, hands down, committed on a 24/7 basis, “Allah Akbar” is usually the last words the victim hears, no mental illness there, just plain old fashioned rationally thought out evil.
    But, I suspect that isn’t what you wanted to hear.

  28. This reminds me of the argument that Muslims and leftists use against the Crusaders.
    Collective defence of family and reacquiring stolen property is only human. “Turning the other cheek,” is most often impossible when confronted with absolute evil.

  29. Wes
    Thank you for your well presented information. Hopefully posts like yours continue to inform us. Well done.

  30. ***”Turning the other cheek,” is most often impossible when confronted with absolute evil.***
    Yes. But Jesus asked Christians to do it anyway. After all, he asked God to forgive those who were murdering him.
    kgp

  31. Quite right, Kevin. I knowingly stand corrected.
    However, I did so “is only human,” like Peter’s actions at Gethsemane.

  32. The guy has got a point,
    from detnews.com
    Gun-free zones get people killed
    by Ted Nugent
    Here we go again. Someone tell me why, with nearly 3,000 articles written worldwide within 48 hours following the tragic slaughter at the Omaha, Neb. Westroads Mall last week, not a single article mentioned the most important fact of all — that there were “no guns allowed” in the mall?
    What helped cause the tragedy is the liberal dream known as “gun-free zones.” Guns also weren’t allowed at Columbine High School, Virginia Tech University, Luby’s cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, and every other location where the wanton slaughter of unarmed, helpless victims is a virtual guarantee.
    It is truly anti-American and downright bizarro that private property and business owners can deny (that is, “infringe” on) this “inalienable” right bestowed upon free men by our Creator.
    Consider what happened last year at a Salt Lake City mall. An armed off-duty cop properly defied that mall’s “gun-free” policy and thwarted a mass shooting that was about to unfold.
    How dense must someone be to hide from this information?
    Denial runs deep in a growing population of “we the sheeple.” For shame […]

  35. ‘Gunslinger, gunslinger-where did you go wrong?
    When you were a child, were you forced to compete, with a brother that you never could beat,
    Did Ya come from a broken-home-on the range?
    Gunslinger………………..
    -A Limeliters Album, circia early 1960s.
    Google: carrying a concealed weapon, and you will find a website recommending a company called North American Arms. They put out a ‘derringer-type of revolver’, (birdshead grip, sheathed trigger, two cylinders- one chambered for the .22 Long Rifle, the other for the .22 magnum. Fits nicely in pocket, purse- or the palm of your hand).
    Only problemo- it’s a revolver, you can’t SILENCE it………….(And you can’t legally own it, of course- if you need help, call your RCMP- haw!)

  36. I know some here would like to arm every teacher,altar boy and mall clerk in N.America but that would hardly improve a thing.
    Evil losers bent on going out infamously will always be able to find weekness in our society.
    Mark my words…it’s only a matter of time before some everyday f**ked up American teenager goes into his school and detonates an IED.
    If we are to have any hope it is to START teaching at least the basics of morality in schools and redevelop the need for responsibility alongside our freedoms.
    And oh yeah…it wouldn’t hurt to teach the average joe the concept of empathy towards other human beings.
    Something the self-righteous Stewarts,Lenos and Colberts of our modern culture could learn.
    But then,making fun of others is their living,isn’t it?

  37. Further to what Arnie and WL Mackenzie said, there is some evidence that Prozac (and other SSRIs) have the following effects, especially in adolescents and young adults
    *agitation
    *aggression
    *hostility
    *suicide ideation and attempts
    *akathisia (hyperactivity)
    Most of it is buried and suppressed by the drug companies but is slowly being pieced together. I can tell you these drugs (SSRIs) can cause a “mania” like reaction in some individuals. This is well known in the psychiatric community. Drugs used for ADD/ADHD can also cause problems but I know less regarding the suicide issues or hostility. Antipsychotics (Zyprexa)are less problematic that way but have a bunch of other problems.
    See this blog for more regarding psychiatry, drugs and the drug industry.
    http://clinpsyc.blogspot.com/2006/09/yet-more-new-research-on.html#links
    And here is a great article for those who are interested in the data.
    http://medicine.plosjournals.org/archive/1549-1676/3/9/pdf/10.1371_journal.pmed.0030372-S.pdf

  38. ‘Gun-free zones’ still give me a chuckle.
    One-time Edmonton city mayor Jan Dreamer Reimer conned her city council into declaring Edmonton a ‘nuclear bomb-free zone’.
    My ‘letter to the editor’ asked if it was a $25 fine or a $50 fine for a violation.
    One thing about allowing CCWs, it would certainly add to the firepower of the good guys in helping the police against the well armed thugs and misfits.

  39. Teddy spake: “I know some here would like to arm every teacher,altar boy and mall clerk in N.America but that would hardly improve a thing.”
    Two things Teddy baby. First, what most of us would like is for every teacher, altar boy and mail clerk in N. America to DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES if they want to carry or not. I don’t think that’s a particularly radical proposal in what is advertised as a free country. Do you? Or had you thought about it?
    Second, you’re horribly, massively, incredibly wrong. Couldn’t be more wrong. When your government allows ordinary citizens the choice to carry if they want, violent crime goes down. A lot. Every single time its tried.
    I’d post links to copious proof of this assertion, but I know you won’t read it anyway. You’re one of those people I mentioned back at 11:47 AM who thinks anybody who argues with you about this is insane.
    I submit to you sir that you have been lied to about this subject your entire life. Really. Have a go at that John Lott article I posted earlier, see if you learn something you didn’t know.

  40. Valencia , you mentioned:
    *agitation
    *aggression
    *hostility
    I have never had these traits. However during one of my attempts to quit smoking my doctor insisted I try Zyban , a pill that you take for several weeks and you eventually dislike smoking and quit. After 3 weeks , out of the blue I would suddenly be overcome with anger for absolutely no reason. Totaly the opposite of my normal personality. Scared the heck out of me. I quit the Zyban and everything returned to normal. My doctor told me that was a common side effect for 1 out of 10 people.
    It turns out Zyban was an antidepressant medication (which I was not told at first) (and which I did not need) . I then found out people on antidepressants tended to stop smoking at a higher rate so the drug companies cleverly re-labeled it as Zyban and sold it as a quit smoking aid.
    Arnie
    Happy and peaceful in Manitoba …
    …and yes still smoking …ha..!!

  41. A must book for every parent to have for reference is one about prescription drugs and their side effects.
    A teacher has a problem with a student, tells the parents Ritalin could help, or another drug, and parent goes to the doctor, tells him how the kid is acting, what teacher or others have told them and bingo, prescription. They should buy the book, Attention Deficit Disorder, written by a doctor, and it tells the symptoms, and how to treat it, without drugs. Diet works wonder, no preservatives, food dyes, etc.
    There are tests recommended to find out what foods, smells etc will trigger a reaction. It takes time and patience, but is better than a drugged kid.
    LSD caused flashbacks, how do we know that other drugs don’t do the same, possibly years later.
    Before giving your child or yourself a new drug, read up on side effects.
    Hopefully there are researchers out there who really care about the truth, and will get it out to the public.

  42. Kevin Powell You are right to say that Jesus told Christians to turn the other cheek, however there is another portion where Jesus says no greater love has any man than he that lays down his life for his brothers. In other words the security guard may well have been ‘wrong’ to kill in self defence but when you consider that she was defending the otherwise defenseless I think she may well have been justified.

  43. Joe,
    Maybe. It’s hard to say. On the one hand Jesus asks that we defend the powerless. But on the other, he rebuked Peter when Peter drew his sword against the Romans, as Irwin quite rightly pointed out.
    I think, for Christians, violence of any form is to be met with sadness. God loves even the shooter. And asks that we do as well. What that looks like practically is the real question.
    kgp

  44. Don’t get me wrong Kevin I’m no fan of Christian violence either. However I am convinced there is a time when men (and women) in good conscience must take a stand and stop the insanity of mass slaughter. Personally I would have preferred the gunman to have been disabled and not killed but the choice of my active killing one or passive (allowing someone else) killing many doesn’t make the choice that difficult. In your example of the Roman guard and Peter, no one was in imminent danger. With perfect hindsight we know what happened but when Peter lobbed off the servant’s ear the biggest imminent danger was Peter with the sword.

  45. One would think the Biblical illiterates would figure out there’s a specific context being used in “turning the other cheek” scriptures. After all, when Peter cut off the priest’s servant’s ear was at the end of Christ’s ministry. After learning from Jesus for three years, Peter still wore a sword for a reason.
    Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

  46. Back to the story. Remarkable how a humble, apparently normal woman could perform such an incredibly brave, selfless, life-defying act as drawing the attention of the shooter against whom, with body armour and assault rifle, she recognized that she was no match.
    Forget about Peter and the sword in this context. I suggest if there’s a Christian principle to draw here, it is that God truly can and does use people who deny themselves in service to others.

  47. teddy, @9:14 PM:
    “Evil losers bent on going out infamously will always be able to find weekness in our society.”
    True enough – and that point exposes the ultimate weakness behind the dream of eliminating all guns to “make society safe.” If that elimination were ever accomplished, then what’s to stop those “evil losers” from turning to, say, poisons?

  48. Thanks, Phantom, for the Lott link. Very interesting.
    One challenge with any debate like this is that people think differently. In a management workshop several years back a number of us were tested and fell into different “quadrants”.
    Most engineers and similar pragmatic types fell into a particular quadrant. One characteristic of people in that quadrant was that “if the facts don’t support the theory they discard the theory.” People of other disciplines (if they can be called that :0) ) fell into a quadrant where “if the facts don’t fit the theory, they discard the facts.”
    Don’t know how to deal with that.

  49. No problem Paul.
    The thing about engineers that separates them from other Ivory Tower disciplines is that when an Anthropologist or physicist is wrong, it doesn’t matter. When an engineer is wrong, things can fall down, break, or burst into flame.
    I’m by no means an engineer, but I’ve found there are a few broad types that you find at accident/crime scenes. There are the ones who stare stupidly and can’t process what they are seeing, there are the ones who panic and literally run up and down screaming, freeze solid or run away. Then there are the ones who run -toward- the problem.
    This lady Jeanne Assam is clearly the run toward the problem type. She’s my kind of woman, the kind that doesn’t become USELESS when it all hits the fan.
    Hot too. ~:D Hot is good.

  50. ***Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.***
    You miss the rest of the passage. Verse 38 says, “‘Lord, look, there are two swords.’He replied, ‘It is enough.”
    Two swords are enough to protect themselves against the the Roman army? Either Jesus is hopeless naive or the swords he was talking about weren’t used for self-defense. Some say they were used for gathering food.
    Peter used those same swords to “protect” himself against the Romans in verses 49-50. That’s when Peter received his rebuke.
    kgp

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