13 Replies to “If the price is zero, it’s worthless, right?”
They just can’t wait for that moment when $0 is offered and 0kw is produced and that moment lasts a few weeks. What an anomaly it will be!!!
Wind power is worth less than “worthless”.
We have what here..?? ~3750 mW of installed Bird Chopping, Landscape destroying Steel monstrosities that if NOT producing anything, requires the use of Natural Gas plants to maintain the grid…that I’m pretty sure are ALL at max Capacity RIGHT now. (-28C Calgary).
Time to tear all of this Useless SHIT down, Scrap the steel here in Ab & ship the rest of it to Ottawa (on the Next Convoy), dumping it on Guibeaults lawn.
So, what happens to a business if they have to sell a product for zero dollars that costs $5 to produce, They go out of business due to bankruptcy or they get bailed out by taxpayers.
Then what do we expect to happen when baseload electricity plants (coal, natgas, nuclear, hydro) have to sell electricity for zero dollars because of overproduction of unreliable, intermittent power ? Bankruptcy or bailout because having baseload power to cover all needed power demand and ensure grid stability 24/7/365 isn’t optional.
Once your intermittent wind and solar power reaches around 20% these problems become more acute, IIRC.
FYI : Germany’s excess renewable power that sometimes sells for not just zero dollars but actually sells for negative prices (the producers pays for consumers to use the excess power) creates a problem for neighboring countries that have grid connections with Germany.
Germany’s Maxed-Out Grid Is Causing Trouble Across Europe
Northern Germany can’t use all the renewable energy it’s making. Neither can its neighbors.
“To prevent neighboring grids from being overwhelmed, Germany is installing phase-shifters on interconnectors, allowing for the blocking of loads at times.”
Ontario had the same problem with multiple occasions when IESO had negative pricing sometimes in the hundreds of dollars per MW…
the “fix” was the “Global Adjustment” which forces non-regulated residential and business customers to pay extra for each kW they use in order to make up the loses.
Every country or province that I’ve looked at that’s gone full tilt into wind and solar ends up having to charge customers more to pay for the consequences of overbuilding intermittent power. England, Germany, Ontario all use various fees, agreements and policies to cover up the problems created by unreliable power generation. Problems we didn’t have when electricity companies built only reliable baseload power plants and peaker plants.
Somewhere in there, as frequently happens, you realize you’re getting a long winded description of what happens…rather than an explanation or providing facts that would make it rational.
I don’t quite understand how it’s “zero cost” energy? Doesn’t the infrastructure used to harvest wind energy have capital + fixed and variable Op costs? Oil & Gas reservoirs are “free” too in the sense that nobody had to create them. But required exploration to delineate reservoirs with economic quantities followed by requiring infrastructure to be built and operated to extract, condition and transport for consumption. Forgive me but I’m not seeing how useful energy is ever “zero cost”.
It’s not zero cost to the seller, but it is to the buyer.
I get that. Excessive production when the excess can’t economically be stored does that. But the flip side is when there’s no wind and energy must be alternatively sourced, likely in AB from MT coal which is super expensive spot market stuff. It’s a double or triple+ whammy to the consumer since wind power operators aren’t allowed to go broke – we pay no matter what the wind does or does no do. Definitely not a Free Market. Wind power was never meant to be “Free” for us.
So…. wind produces nothing until it produces so much that it reduces the price of electricity to zero? That makes about as much sense as negative interest rates. Oh, wait…
Wind produces power when it’s not needed, but has to be purchased anyway because government signed bad contracts. (and usually first, instead of actual baseload or dispatchable power sources)
FILTHY LIBERALS wrecked this Planet
No Quarter for FILTHY LIBERALS.
I was at these Turbines and have photos of 2 Dead Eagles.
They just can’t wait for that moment when $0 is offered and 0kw is produced and that moment lasts a few weeks. What an anomaly it will be!!!
Wind power is worth less than “worthless”.
We have what here..?? ~3750 mW of installed Bird Chopping, Landscape destroying Steel monstrosities that if NOT producing anything, requires the use of Natural Gas plants to maintain the grid…that I’m pretty sure are ALL at max Capacity RIGHT now. (-28C Calgary).
Time to tear all of this Useless SHIT down, Scrap the steel here in Ab & ship the rest of it to Ottawa (on the Next Convoy), dumping it on Guibeaults lawn.
So, what happens to a business if they have to sell a product for zero dollars that costs $5 to produce, They go out of business due to bankruptcy or they get bailed out by taxpayers.
Then what do we expect to happen when baseload electricity plants (coal, natgas, nuclear, hydro) have to sell electricity for zero dollars because of overproduction of unreliable, intermittent power ? Bankruptcy or bailout because having baseload power to cover all needed power demand and ensure grid stability 24/7/365 isn’t optional.
Once your intermittent wind and solar power reaches around 20% these problems become more acute, IIRC.
FYI : Germany’s excess renewable power that sometimes sells for not just zero dollars but actually sells for negative prices (the producers pays for consumers to use the excess power) creates a problem for neighboring countries that have grid connections with Germany.
Germany’s Maxed-Out Grid Is Causing Trouble Across Europe
Northern Germany can’t use all the renewable energy it’s making. Neither can its neighbors.
“To prevent neighboring grids from being overwhelmed, Germany is installing phase-shifters on interconnectors, allowing for the blocking of loads at times.”
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-stressed-grid-is-causing-trouble-across-europe
Ontario had the same problem with multiple occasions when IESO had negative pricing sometimes in the hundreds of dollars per MW…
the “fix” was the “Global Adjustment” which forces non-regulated residential and business customers to pay extra for each kW they use in order to make up the loses.
Every country or province that I’ve looked at that’s gone full tilt into wind and solar ends up having to charge customers more to pay for the consequences of overbuilding intermittent power. England, Germany, Ontario all use various fees, agreements and policies to cover up the problems created by unreliable power generation. Problems we didn’t have when electricity companies built only reliable baseload power plants and peaker plants.
Somewhere in there, as frequently happens, you realize you’re getting a long winded description of what happens…rather than an explanation or providing facts that would make it rational.
I don’t quite understand how it’s “zero cost” energy? Doesn’t the infrastructure used to harvest wind energy have capital + fixed and variable Op costs? Oil & Gas reservoirs are “free” too in the sense that nobody had to create them. But required exploration to delineate reservoirs with economic quantities followed by requiring infrastructure to be built and operated to extract, condition and transport for consumption. Forgive me but I’m not seeing how useful energy is ever “zero cost”.
It’s not zero cost to the seller, but it is to the buyer.
I get that. Excessive production when the excess can’t economically be stored does that. But the flip side is when there’s no wind and energy must be alternatively sourced, likely in AB from MT coal which is super expensive spot market stuff. It’s a double or triple+ whammy to the consumer since wind power operators aren’t allowed to go broke – we pay no matter what the wind does or does no do. Definitely not a Free Market. Wind power was never meant to be “Free” for us.
So…. wind produces nothing until it produces so much that it reduces the price of electricity to zero? That makes about as much sense as negative interest rates. Oh, wait…
Wind produces power when it’s not needed, but has to be purchased anyway because government signed bad contracts. (and usually first, instead of actual baseload or dispatchable power sources)
FILTHY LIBERALS wrecked this Planet
No Quarter for FILTHY LIBERALS.
I was at these Turbines and have photos of 2 Dead Eagles.