Solving today’s energy problems with tomorrow’s technology. Assuming they can actually get it to work. And that’s a big assumption.
Globe and Mail- Trudeau, Scholz to sign agreement exploring hydrogen fuel production in Canada for export to Germany
Germany is pinning its hopes on hydrogen, both for its long-term energy security and as part of its transition to a greener economy. Unlike fossil fuels, hydrogen produces no harmful emissions when used as a fuel. That makes it a potential boon for the energy needs of Germany‘s heavy manufacturing industries. Hydrogen could also be used in commercial transportation, or for heating buildings.
The largest Green House Gas in the atmosphere is Water Vapour. look it up.
When you burn Hydrogen the only by-Product is Water Vapour
I wonder how long it will take the enviro’s to ban Hydrogen because of this.
Dihydrogen monoxide has killed millions of people over the millenia.
I’m surprised the left hasn’t banned it yet, how could they miss this horrible chemical product from their agenda?
I remember they just couldn’t get enough signatures on the petitions to get it banned. Even though they told the people that our rivers and lakes were full of the stuff.
And besides.. Why can’t they make it themselves?
Producing hydrogen from wind power in Atlantic provinces. All the elements needed for a giant taxpayer funded money pit benefiting a handful of rich Liberal donors and politicians. I’d be surprised if a single hydrogen atom is produced.
Today, about 95% of all hydrogen is produced from steam reforming of natural gas.
To produce hydrogen from wind or solar (bio forming process) … would necessarily destroy giant swaths of our beautiful natural landscape. These are the unspoken, INTENDED consequences of of our “clean, green, future”.
In the meantime … we will INEFFICIENTLY convert clean burning natural gas into yet another novelty fuel.
But this will all be SOLD to the slack jawed, tik tok generation as the really KEWL future of a “clean green” world!! Yeayyy … it’s all “techy” and whatnot.
Making your electricity grid dependent on the weather is just ignorant of the realities of power generation plus transmission and distribution. The only thing dumber is to also make transportation and heating dependent on the weather.
Future blackouts and storm damage will then knock out electricity, electric heating and electric vehicles. Pretty much ensuring mass casualties everytime the wind doesn’t blow at just the right speed or cloudy skies don’t produce enough energy to meet demand.
It’s almost impossible to create a worse system than the one they’re designing.
“…destroy giant swaths of our beautiful natural landscape.”
You misunderstand the intent. All cars will run on beautiful unicorn fuel hydrogen, produced by beautiful windmills and fabulous solar panels. Due to environmental concerns, you won’t get one. Because you aren’t important.
Shiny Pony and his cabinet will have cars, big, roomy, handmade and fabulous. Government employees will have bicycles. Common citizens will be working the bug-ranches and yeast-farms, they will be too busy to bother going anywhere.
Now get back to work, you have taxes to pay.
I’m waiting for those groundbreaking studies into alchemy, magic beans that produce beanstalks and Justin’s thesis on his butt from a hole in the ground (a comparative study).
“Oh the humanity… !”
https://twitter.com/apeastregion/status/860879375310483456?s=21&t=KlyXS-5hN021KhG2J0Frzw
The people who write this dreck never seem to ask basic questions, such as “Where does the energy to liberate the hydrogen gas from other sources come from? How much is used? Is there any net gain at all?”
Journalism, like education, appears to be the intellectual ghetto of choice in most universities these days.
Yep. Wind towers have a huge carbon footprint in their manufacturing and installation process. All the literature I have read calculates that wind towers never become carbon neutral because of their relatively short productive lifespan of producing “green” energy can never surpass their huge carbon footprint.
The other irony is that wind towers can not exist without fossil fuels and conventional power because those are the only energy sources powerful enough to produce the materials and manufacture the components and install the foundation. No traditional energy means no more wind farms.
“Producing hydrogen from wind power in Atlantic provinces. All the elements needed for a giant taxpayer funded money pit benefiting a handful of rich Liberal donors and politicians.”
Well to be honest, wind power ain’t good for much else – and ain’t much good for that. Electrolysis-produced hydrogen is dreadfully inefficient, especially considering how little power wind turbines actually produce, and hydrogen is a miserably poor fuel. Hydrogen embrittles metals it’s stored in, is MURDER to store, can leak out of everything and has almost no energy – the energy in a fuel is proportional to its weight, and a 45-gallon drum of liquid hydrogen weighs 50 lb – a 45-gallon drum of gasoline weighs 300 lb. I rank this scheme right up there with Bill Gates’s “I’m going to spend a large fortune and spray the upper atmosphere full of sulphur dioxide to reflect-away lots more sunlight – I’ll be saving the Earth all by myself but no, don’t thank me, and DEFINITELY no speculating about unforeseen consequences there in the back! After all, YOU’LL have to live with whatever effects this’ll have – I bet I’ll be just fine…”
But hey, why not? After all, it’s Canada’s forests they’re cutting down and chipping to load into bulk carriers and ship to the UK for biomass to burn in their (formerly coal-fired) power plants. As you say, just another giant taxpayer-funded boondoggle to transfer lot$ ‘n lot$ of our dollar$ to rich cronie$ and government-favoured $pecial intere$ts…
The schemes to artificially reduce sunlight are an order of magnitude greater threat than most corporate environmentalists crazy schemes. Unintended consequences? Of course, the Earth’s entire ecosystem is driven and dependent on sunlight. For instance, a reduction in plant growth due to reduced sunlight will affect everything including herbivores, air quality, crop growth, vitamin D production.
Every human being is a stakeholder when it comes to sunlight so every person should get a say on any sunlight reduction scheme. Billionaires and politicians need to quit acting like psychopathic overlords.
LC B, They are not “acting”, They are actual psychopaths, trying to become our overlords, Oh, and in case I didn’t mention it, EVIL as well!
I hate to agree but at this point getting rid of a handful of world organizations, corporations, politicians and billionaires would solve many of the world’s problems. Easier and more practical to remove them than to follow their anti-human agendas.
I suggest those people have their assets confiscated for “the greater good” then exile them to the remotest Arctic research station. Let it be powered by wind and solar. No communication with the outside world. Make sure no one gets in or out.
Garth
“Is there any net gain”
There will be lots of money going to Quebec.
The rest of the country doesn’t count.
EXACTLY! Hydrogen is not an energy SOURCE (barring an incredible break through in nuclear fusion). It is, at best, energy STORAGE. And thermodynamics being LAWS, there is simply no way around this. Unlike human laws, the Almighty tends not to grant exceptions to the laws of nature.
It’s a canard.
Another distraction from our more pressing energy needs.
We need to be building more fission reactors, drilling and pumping more oil and most importantly building large refineries to work over that heavy tar sands oil.
If I had my way we would be building new coal burning generators with new scrubbers.
If I really had my way we would be using the Fischer Troupe Process and making syn fuel out of that coal , use the tailings that have high concentrations of thorium for fueling molton salt nuke reactors.
It is estimated we have in North America about 500 years of coal buried in the ground.
Within half a Millenia we should be able to crack the fusion problem by then.
The cheaper a unit of energy is , the cheaper a unit of production is .
Good questions that I’m sure they never asked.
Hydrogen produces no harmful emissions when used as a fuel. But H2 is notoriously difficult to contain, the same pipes and tanks that will hold N. gas and propane will leak out the H2. And it takes more energy to produce the H2 than it contains. Do we currently have enough of a massive surplus of energy generation capacity to supply enough H2 to replace Germany’s N. gas?
Pipe dreams of green fuel utopia bears no resemblance to reality.
I was going to say nothing will happen cause this is just a Turdeau press release.
However, SNC and the Government of Quebec are salivating at the thought of massive federal expenditures. Thus enabling them to siphon off massive amounts of money for bloated engineering and construction contracts.
Transport hydrogen? Seriously? Go long fairy dust!
Sadly … todays stock market … driven MORE by sentiment than fundamentals will favor the pump and dumper class of investor. The rest of you will ultimately take a giant haircut (read: good old fashioned indigenous peoples scalping – damn barbarians!).
Hydrogen powered tankers! Problem solved. Put solar panels on the tankers in tropical waters and leave Canada out of it completely.
The Vancouver winter Olympics had hydrogen-fueled busses going to and from Whistler. A virtue signaling of concern for global warming.
The hydrogen was hauled to Vancouver from Quebec in diesel-powered trucks.
So yes it can be transported.
Germany wants green hydrogen, which won’t force Mr. Trudeau to do an about-face and embrace fossil fuels. The only place to put a green hydrogen plant is in Radisson, Quebec, where there is enough power. Blanketing Newfoundland with bird killers won’t suffice.
So an industrial scale electrolysis plant in northern Quebec? What LC Bennett said.
The Germans don’t have a very good history with handling H2. See, for instance, the Hindenburg incident.
My thoughts exactly.
One little problem with hydrogen is steel embrittlement. Basically if you put liquid hydrogen in a steel tank it leaks out all the seams and also causes the steel to become brittle, like a ceramic.
Imagine a ship full of liquid hydrogen running across the Atlantic from PEI to Germany, tossing in the waves, and all the cryogenic tanks are made of glass…
Speaking of Klaus and his disciples…a good quick Sunday AM read:
https://alt-market.us/artificial-intelligence-a-secular-look-at-the-digital-antichrist/
// The people who write this dreck never seem to ask basic questions,
such as “Where does the energy to liberate the hydrogen gas from other sources come from?
How much is used? Is there any net gain at all?” //
Some don’t.
// In a big “Fick Dich” to Alberta, German Chancellor @OlafScholz coming to Canada in ten days
to sign a hydrogen deal with Trudeau in Newfoundland
because windpower vs Alberta’s dirty nat gas is the green way to make hydrogen. //
https://twitter.com/inklessPW/status/1558629359975645184
Some do.
In fact just burning gas is ‘greener’ than using gas to make hydrogen.
That’s called “blue” or “grey” hydrogen, in contrast with “green” hydrogen produced by wind or hydro.
There is apparently a whole rainbow of hydrogen colours:
// In the months before the historic US climate bill, Jim Justice,
the billionaire coal magnate and West Virginia governor who believes in divine intervention as a climate change solution,
became a champion of hydrogen. //
Financial Times https://www.ft.com/content/1dd75f4f-427e-41c2-9483-4550d96f9487 [fulltext https://archive.ph/Yu5cD ]
Jumpin Jack Flash is also a gas..gas..gas.
I don’t buy this, Hydrogen fuel as in fuel cells has been around the bazaars for years now. Does Ballard Power come to anyone’s mind? Canada can’t do this. Canada can’t do anything this complex. Witness the govt’s Phoenix system. Say no more.
https://youtu.be/3jU_a32heFI
Thank you. Ballard Power Systems is the first thing that came to mind.
How many millions of dollars were wasted on that exercise?
Ballard has gotten filthy stinking rich off that scam. Still in business, still selling unicorn juice. Still less efficient than a 1985 Toyota four-banger.
I recommend to Germany that first they develop and implement new energy sources, THEN shut down fossil-fueld and nuclear power stations.
Let’s save the world by burning coal to produce hydrogen.
Hydrogen gas is only as green as its method of manufacturing.
The idiot and politicians in general insist that they can create energy from nothing.
There is this thing they call the law of thermodynamics: 1st Law of Thermodynamics – Energy cannot be created or destroyed.
The First Law of Thermodynamics states that heat is a form of energy, and thermodynamic processes are therefore subject to the principle of conservation of energy. This means that heat energy cannot be created or destroyed.
As they sometimes say, there is no free lunch.
While the transfer of wind generated power into hydrogen makes sense in the abstract, you can call the hydrogen the battery storage, why is it that nobody is doing it?
What is the practicality of it?
Hydrogen is highly volatile gas, it blow up with fierce power at the slightest chance it gets.
Heh … your agent suggested this over ten years ago on this blog.
It can’t be done, that’s why. You can’t store liquid hydrogen. It will leak out of any container you can make. Like “storing” water in a basket made of chicken wire.
Greenies just lie, dude. Either because they’re ignorant, or because they’re evil. That’s the long and the short of it.
Kinda puts a new complexion on this political announcement when you know they’re just frigging bare-faced lying.
Just to let you know, they use hydrogen to cool the bearings on the power pickup on power generators, I mean the megawatt stuff.
I know this for a fact, worked on Sundance, west of Edmonton on Wabamun lake.
It was always mystery to me how is it that it does not blow up.
I’d be shocked if this were true.
Hydrogen is the smallest molecule, and diffuses through almost everything (solid metal, glass, etc. ) which is why it is almost impossible to store long term. It also has very low thermal conductivity, so use as a coolant is nothing short of imbecilic, even assuming you would want to put enough energy into compressing and cooling it into a liquid. And as a gas, the thermal conductivity is even worse by orders of magnitude. And that isn’t even getting into the fire and explosivity hazards.
As a cryogenic liquid coolant, there are so many better choices. Liquid nitrogen, perhaps? Liquid carbon dioxide?
I would not say hydrogen blows up with great power. If it did it would make a fine auto fuel.
They used hydrogen to run cars way before our time, around the WWII and shortly after.
They stopped because the gasoline or benzine as they call it in Europe, was always cheaper and safer to work with.
It took a big bottle of hydrogen on the back of the car. Can you imagine somebody crashing into it?
No, they used wood/coal syn gas generated off of small generators, which is a mixture of mostly carbon monoxide, hydrogen., nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, methane, and various tars and soot. The producer generators were on the vehicles burning the syn gas for fuel, so there was no storage issue. The reason the WW2 Germans did this was due to the scarcity of gasoline. Very dirty process.
The area this is planned for, has a single two lane road, festooned with potholes.
One hundred and sixty wind mills, backups, and plants.
One road.
https://edhollett.substack.com/p/environmental-study
What’s the over under on these plants being built and never turned on, because the Watermelons “suddenly” discover that water vapor is a greenhouse gas, and the hydrogen can also be used to produce Ammonia and Ammonium which is polluting our ground water and needs to be cut by 30% according to the Ottawa Brain Trust…
And I’m sure that one or more “Indigenous Water Protectors” will complain that the process begins by destroying pure water in order to produce the hydrogen.
None of that matters – “It’s GREEEEEEEEEEEEEN!!!!!!!!!!”
{ – That BTW, is the new shriek of our Global Warming Alarmists whenever a “Denier” says their latest miracle Earth-saving scheme is full of $hit – “GREEEEEEEEEEEE!!!” – |
Hydrogen embrittlment wrecks steel
Right? I said that above, clearly I am late to the party. Imagine a nice big tanker steaming across the Atlantic full of liquid hydrogen…
Cal
The titanic had bulkheads made of brittle steel, and they gave out under pressure, and that is why that pup sank. Great design poor materials to effect the design!
The agreement is part of the German government’s effort to become less dependent on Russian fuel supplies …
That’s weird – I remember a certain someone warning them about this very issue some years ago which was met with rounds of guffaws from the Euro trash intelligentsia.
His name escapes me.
Anywho – Doesn’t take a genius to figure out what’s happening here. Canadians will have to pony up for European stupidity again via tax dollars because Fritz set impossible climate targets. Desiring a more expensive green based electricity to split the water means you aren’t energy starved enough for my liking.
The company I work for have been telling their employees that they were told two years ago that the World will be going hydrogen…
They are starting…
This was planned long ago…
Just like the freezer warehouse right near my work over five years now that they we’re welding all these I beams and building sections of real heavy duty walls so one day we asked what they were doing and the welders told us it was for a pharmaceutical vault…
Three and half years ago cranes showed up and all their rooftop refrigeration units were replaced with new and much bigger ones.
I looked up the company once the shots became the main event … That company received grants from our .gov’s to upgrade their refrigeration units…
And guess where the vaccines were stored with OPP support in that very warehouse…
Lots of things were planned a long long time ago…
I use to work there…
43.539885,-79.881592
Oh boy, I can’t wait for the details concerning the next German hydrogen catastrophe. The last one the Germans suffered was the Hindenburg. Maybe this time it’ll be a powerplant or a big fire in a traffic jam?
Could be worse – the likely short-term salvation of the Germans is buying gas from Israel, delivered by LNG tanker for the six years it’ll take them to build a pipeline across the Med from their enormous continental shelf gas fields.
But Germany has some awful err… “unfortunate” history with Jews and gas…
Hydrogen is stupid. It’s made from natural gas so how are you getting ahead? If you make it from solar and wind you are losing most of it through inefficient processes to convert to hydrogen.
And when hydrogen is burned it creates NOx emissions. The stuff that causes smog and reduced air quality and health issues for people.
Hydrogen cannot be properly stored. All it is is a proton and an electron. You cannot contain that. Quantum tunneling alone results in losses. There’s no distribution system for it.
In short it is the stupidest form of energy on earth. Why people get google eyed over it I have no idea.
Canada could use Quebec hydropower to make hydrogen, liquify it, and send it to Germany.
Now two things are likely to happen.
a) Quebec will no power to sell to Toronto (might be a good thing?)
b) every once and awhile on of the hydrogen transport ships will blow up. Question: does hydrogen blevy?
There is no NOx from burning hydrogen. This is the only thing these idiots have right. It burns nicely to another greenhouse gas.
If you are burning in atmospheric air which is 78% N then you will get NOx
When you are at peak energy ignorance, the “solutions” are ignorant. Perhaps the Euroweenies should try fracking instead.
I’m sure they will. After two winters of freezing in the dark they’ll have finally hung the last German greenie and they’ll be getting on with life.
I also predict the return of German youth marching in step, but that’s a problem for another day.
Marching in step.
This was all planned out long ago to get the German plebes mad and go on another rampage.
I wonder who the new Jews will be, Muzzies ?
Mr. Knott brings up some very good technical questions of the kind the green crowd won’t even consider because it harshes their buzz.
Also, it takes more energy to compress H into a liquid for storage than you get back by burning it.
It’s all stupifying nonsense.
“Chancellor of Germany Olaf Scholz and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau”
Two stupid assholes producing methane.
Somebody give them a match.
^^^
There just aren’t enough people jumping into the volcano. All will change this winter. My prediction is Germany will be beating Britain until it suddenly pulls out and buys some Russian gas. Then it’s Britain all the way.
They call themselves progressives to get out in front of the fact that they are regressives.. No benchmark exists to save the world.. The energy FETISH is simply that, a fetish.. Until you come up with a true upgrade that requires no mandates.. Its all just another level of government floating in a sea of tax dollars..
hydrogen has just about the lowest energy density of any fuel, unless you actually use it as a liquid in a hypergolic reaction. It’s a terrible idea for most applications where we currently use gasoline or natural gas.
a tanker filled with hydrogen has very little energy value compared to a tanker filled wilt natural gas!
This is just another Liberal climate fantasy — Turdeau’s Hindenberg Project. Burning hydrogen creates water vapour, probably the most significant greenhouse gas.
Gang Green is gonna get yah.
Time to vanish these types of arrogant worms to an island..
The Island of Carbon Freedom.
Where they may live their fantastic future and show us all how to be properly respectful of Mother Earth..
These people are fools and bandits,they have served us all notice that they “Will Rule”..
So enough already,I for one am way past accepting any help from arrogant incompetents.
Time to banish them from our luxurious technological society,that they so hate and seek to destroy.
They claim their way is the only way,for us all.
I half agree,their way is the only way for them.
So oust these gangrenous twits from our civil society..
Hell I would donate real money to send them to their doom,I means utopia..
As long as I get the drone camera rights to the air space above them.
Gang Green effects the civic institutions as gaseous gangrene does the human body.