Biden and NATO will fight Putin to the very last Ukrainian.
I spoke today with a long-time Ukrainian soldier & contact who's been in Donbas since 2014; he's now in a leadership role. He was wounded by 82mm mortar days ago & hospitalized. 2 pieces of shrapnel remain stuck in him. He confirmed Ukrainian forces are suffering huge casualties.
— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) July 4, 2022
Read the rest of the thread.
The giggling “Ukrainian farmer towing Russian tank” tweets from Canadian journos have evaporated.
So should NATO supply Ukraine with modern weaponary and give them a fighting chance to defeat — or at least stalemate — Russia, or should they deny them that weaponary on the theory that a quick Russian victory would be more humane?
My vote would be to supply them with the weaponary. As brutal as it is on their soldiers, the alternative is worse for Ukrainians and non-Ukrainians alike.
You shouldn’t get a vote. In all likelyhood you have zero skin in the game. The people of Ukraine should get the only votes. If some areas want to join Russia instead of remain in Ukraine then just let them go. I’d say the same if Quebec wanted to leave Canada.
Zelensky was committed to giving south eastern Ukraine more autonomy as per the Minsk agreements. What happened to that commitment?
“My vote” is just an expression, but it’s NATO countries who decide whether they send weapons to Ukraine, so I actually do have some skin in the game.
But what’s happening in southeastern Ukraine has nothing to do with “autonomy.”
No no, see comrade a fake referendum done during military occupation is legit. Be a good comrade.
It was not fake. Even your CNN buddies acknowledge it was legit.
The vote margin will be wider now. After Ukrainian paramilitaries committed multiple atrocities like Bucha to demonstrate the “price” for “collaboration” with Russia.
You’re such a worthless revolting pile of excrement, you remind me of russians that were blaming Germans for Katyn.
Go pay attention to how many countries recognize DPR and LNR. It’s a pretty short list. There’s a reason for that: the world knows Russia is being Russia.
Same thing with Crimea.
Just to be clear, my comment above that mentions Katyn was directed as Bondage Sado Maso not at Allan.
Like the rest of the keyboard warlords typing out your opinions from comfy chairs in war-free neighborhoods you have zero skin in the game no matter what you claim.
You’re obsessed with “skin in the game” because you don’t like my opinion but you can’t think of a decent rebutal.
1. Ethnically cleanse population.
2. Settle Siberians
3. Run a referendum.
Not this time.
KM
Bullshit.
Ukraine & it’s NAZI’s needs to go down – ALL of it.
And were that to happen….. would a Huge Disaster for every Filthy POS that goes to bend the knee & kiss Klaus Schwabs (_i_).
Bring it on Vladimir….
Ukraine doesn’t seem to be in the mood to oblige either you or your buddy Vlad.
“…would be more humane?”
Wrong consideration. Ukrainians are fighting and preferring to die on their feet than live in Siberian chains. You can’t decide for them, they deserve all the help that can be provided. Besides, those that survive Siberian captivity and are exchanged as prisoners typically vow to be never again taken alive…. nothing new really.
I am simply stating both sides of the argument. Devil’s advocate and all that.
I understand that, but it needs to be emphasized that letting someone be fed into russian chains is the least humane option. Goes double given repeated history of genocide by russians on Ukrainians.
This war was started by NATO puppet Zelensky in 2014 by bombing Russian speaking Ukrainians.
Russia is putting and end to it and picking up a land bridge to Crimea.
If they give Ukraine long range weapons, they get a long range war in return.
Russia doesnt have an equivalent to the M142 or M270. Range, accuracy, and rate of fire. Ukraine just needs more.
The inaccurate bombardment from Russian artillery was going to happen regardless. It’s all they know how to do. Bombard, send in infantry. If they die, bombard again, send in infantry. Zero evolution from WW2
The casualty counts from Ukraine suggest otherwise. How, exactly, are you proposing to ship all that “advanced” NATO weaponry to Ukraine now?
By the way, it is becoming increasingly clear that what we are seeing from NATO in all of this, is the land armamemnts and tech equivalent of the “Fleet in Being Theory”.
Give it up, Ukraine is gone. War’s over
All that’s left now is the crying, the chucking of Zelensky under the bus, and looking for someone to blame.
If NATO escalates, the Russians will smash Brussels NATO HQ with conventional strikes, and that will be that.
Very few Germans or Frenchmen wanted to die for Ukraine. Even fewer will want to fight and die for a bunch of generals whose only expertise is in HR, and who f**ked around and found out.
Russia is gone from Kyiv
Russia is gone from Sumy
Russia is gone from Kharkiv
Russia is gone from Snake Island. Couldn’t handle the bombardment which is great, the Ukraine kit used in the bombardment can now be used in the east.
Ukraine is pushing towards Kherson.
HIMARS are hitting Russian ammo depots, headquarters, EW units, air defense, and barracks deep behind Russian lines at will. More M142s and M270s are coming.
Only a crackhead would think this war is over.
Bingo Bdsm.
+++++/\
“How, exactly, are you proposing to ship all that “advanced” NATO weaponry to Ukraine now?”
The same way it has been supplied so far, shortbus. Delivery systems are already supplied. Longer ranged missiles can be fired from the same HIMRAS launchers.
Whatever the Russians are doing they’re winning. In war when the propoganda flies thick and fast, it’s the bottom line.
Russia has lost at least 40% if their modern active tanks. They are replacing them with antiquated tanks like T-62s pulled out of storage that have no place in a modern battle field.
Further, Ukrainian soldiers are getting deadly accurate. They hit some huge ammo depots in the last couple of days.
The war isn’t over by a long shot.
T55s too. I’m sure they’re looking at reactivating T34s and Studebakers too.
I have a rule. Any piece of equipment older than I am badly needs replacing.
“They are replacing them with antiquated tanks like T-62s…”
Nevermind T-62s, BTGs under reconstruction from the Kiev rout have been spotted few weeks ago drilling on D-20 howitzers. That is mid 1950s vintage. Troops in many sectors have been issued early cold war era helmets. Mosin riffles have made repeated appearances.
What nonsense. You are implying Russia has no advanced electronic warfare measures?
The S400 missile system is the most advanced in the world.
Who is “they” Kate?
NATO can and should give Ukraine long range weapons. Siberians are using them against Ukrainians already. Ukrainians have every right to use them against Siberians.
Thanks for making a point I agree with Kate. If NATO wants to declare war on Russia then go for it.
Otherwise suck it up and start negotiations pronto … I think everyone has had enough pain and killing and the negotiations won’t be easy or quick but there is always a deal to be done that all can live with.
Playing chicken with Putin is not a good long term strategy …. especially with nitwits like Trudeau, Brandon and Boris strategizing.
“He said Russian tanks & artillery are the biggest problems facing them; the number of tanks & artillery barrages hitting them is crazy & the amount of Western aid being given right now is not going to be enough to turn the tide in Ukraine’s favor. “We need more, more, more.””
Skipped this reply I suppose? Should we discuss the estimated 7k-10k Russian soldiers that died in the past few weeks taking Severdonetsk? A city Russia had surrounded for months.
Then there’s the story of Dmitry Shkrebets.
https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/status/1544128768473718784?t=0DyHQ7Ihjjy4exu6IwauzA&s=19
You really should read it all. TLDR version: father of Russian sailor dies on the Moskva. He wasnt supposed to be near hostilities.
Russia declares him missing due to disaster.and the father loses it. I remember seeing this when it happened. Fast forward, finally Russia decides to pay his parents in full. His wife immediately goes missing. At this point he starts seeing through all the lies. Then Russia abandons Snake Island as a “goodwill gesture”. Father loses it, joins.the Free Russia legion. He’s now fighting for Ukraine.
Putins Russia
I always love people like AllanS who are able to turn a special case into a general rule. Well done.
Let’s apply your logic to the Beau Bergdahl case, shall we? Or maybe Cindy Sheehan. How about Rachel Corrie?
Sheesh. Where did you get the 7k-10k figure from? The VSU?
82mm mortars are small arms.
Facepalm
Nope they are considered artillery. Anything above 15mm is no longer small arms.
Yeah. Sniper rifles are artillery, too, and RPGs and rifle grenade launchers, and M72s.
If you were any stupider, you’d need a helmet. As it is, you definitely need a muzzle.
Sniper rifles? Which one? Largest sniper rifles are 14.5mm. Above that technically we are talking artillery. 20mm AA guns like Oerlikon are anti aircraft artillery. Same for small caliber AT guns say German 28mm. If you want to make case for grenade launchers, that is a different story. Recoilless rifles? Grey area again, but technically, apart for stuff like Carl Gustav, artillery. SPG-9? Certainly we’re into artillery territory.
Mortars? Unless you’re talking about “commando” mortars up to say 60mm you talking artillery. Even those could be considered artillery. A US M2 60mm mortar with a five man crew was certainly artillery. Bigger mortars around 80mm certainly artillery, no question about it. You have to be an utter idiot (which you are) to consider them small arms.
Or where do you “think” artillery starts? Polish 98mm mortars still small arms? How about US 107mm? 120mm? 160mm? Or are all mortars, including russian 240mm small arms in your f***ed up little brain? Because you made a ridiculous assertion and are stuck on stupid defending it unable to admit that you don’t know s*** about s***ting.
Its very simple, you dolt:
Infantry units use small arms.
Artillery units use artillery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O8J2locx5o
First law of holes and all that.
With exception of rare independent artillery units (typically battalions) all other artillery units are a part of larger infantry or armored units. This should be enough, but let me educate your dumbass.
Take US WWII infantry division, as it is probably the most transparent in structure, most regular and TO&E are readily available. At the company level you have HQ, 3 riffle platoons and a weapons platoon. Weapons platoon has an MG section and a mortar section with 60mm mortars. Those mortars are organic company level artillery that belongs to a larger infantry unit.
Level up, you have an infantry battalion, in it you have a weapons company. In the weapons company you have an 81mm mortar platoon. Those mortars are organic battalion level artillery that belongs to a larger infantry unit.
Level up, you have an infantry regiment. Infantry regiment has an infantry cannon company, these tend to be towed 105mm (M3) howitzers, in three two gun batteries. These howitzers are organic regiment level artillery that belongs to a larger infantry unit.
Level up, you have an infantry division, Divisional artillery consists of three 105mm howitzer battalions. And again, … by now you know the song, … These howitzers are organic division level artillery that belongs to a larger infantry unit.
So at every level an infantry unit includes a two level lower artillery unit (a section in a company, a platoon in a battalion, a company in a regiment and a battalion in a division). Can you see now why your statement above is embarrassingly stupid?
Ukraine is a casino for the Bidens and Hillary. Zelensky manages this high profit enterprise at their whim. NATO and G7 get VIP treatment just like Stephen Paddock in Vegas.
They wanted to expand their franchise into Russia. Putin said nyet. A lot of Ukrainians are dying because their country was taken over by the same people that are running Canada.
Impfen
Another BANG on comment.
Ukraine is a Slush Fund country for the Benefit of those who inhabit DAVOS.
Klaus Schwab – Bill Gates – Rothschilds – Rockefellers – British Royalty & the CEO’s of BlackRock / Vanguard et all.
You name it – we can sell it..
You got it – we can Launder it
You want it – we can bio-engineer it
You want Guns – sky’s the limit
You want Women – how many
You want NAZI’s – we got thousands
Ukraine in a nutshell…
Bingo. Comment of the night!
AllanS along with Comical Ali and Baghdad Bob still think this war isn’t over but the mop-up and the crying, but he clearly believes in the million-man army and the tooth fairy. The rest of the planet, including Ukrainian concsripts and grannies, know what time it is.
By the way, I predict, given that the Russians have pulled off a cycle-through of an extra 100k or so fresh troops theough their formations, now have a sizeable cadre of veterans of high intensity modern combined arms warfare to draw on. Lithuania is basically effed now.
One of the most bizarre things about this war is the number of posters who seem to support Russia.
What’s behind it, one wonders. Are they just being trollish? Do they believe the Russian propaganda? Have they fallen in love with a strong decisive leader? Do they just hate everything about the west?
Because those who support Russia and the Ukrainian people see through the propaganda of the corrupt globalists as their attempts to sanction Putin backfire on themselves.
The sooner this is over the better off for everyone except the WEF and their criminal enterprise.
I wouldn’t say that I support Russia. I would say that the Russians, like the Ukrainians, are our friends; that they, like the Ukrainians, may or may not be well represented and well done by by their governments; and that we cannot trust our governments and our media to tell us the truth, so we should hold off judgment until we have a better view.
“Lithuania is basically effed now.”
Even VP is not so crazy as to attack Lithuania, for that would be an attack on NATO.
And the Russian armed forces is going to be so depleted after the Ukraine war — on matter how it turns out — that they’ll needs years to rebuild. They’ll have to rely on conscription even more than they do now, as not many will be eager to be led to the slaughter for the sake of VP’s ego.
Good interview by Greg hunter with Martin Armstrong.
https://usawatchdog.com/prepare-for-war-higher-energy-prices-significant-civil-unrest-martin-armstrong/
Colon et all are simply trying to distract from the big picture.
The big picture is that Putinista junta is conducting genocide in Ukraine. Otherwise sensible people (Kremlin trolls and bots excluded) here, behave like FDR when told about holocaust.
If Biden had merely allowed The Keystone II pipeline to be completed. continued Oil and Gas Exploration on Federal lands, and exploration in ANWR? Oil prices would be so low that Russia could not afford to go to war against Ukraine. No F###ing WAR!
And gas prices would be less than $3.00 per gallon and lesson than 1.00 Canadian per liter.
Biden doomed his administration in the first two weeks with his executive orders. By Valentine’s Day 2021? The USA (and the World) was screwed. Prove me wrong!
We should supply Ukraine with more arms. They are outnumbered in artillery 10 or 15 to 1. They need more medium Artillery like 155mm. They need more MLRS. Are they Fascist Scum? I do not know. I do not care! I know they are opposing Russia, which is invading their Country, and has since 2014. Remember Malaysian Air MH17? Russia already swallowed up Ossetia and other Russian frontier regions. Now they want the Donbas too.
I am of Finnish descent. My Finnish grandparents were from the Iron Range. They were universally characterized as Communists by the Mine Owners when Finns demanded safe working conditions in the mines. Most were thrown out of the mines and became subsistence farmers. Come the 1940 Russo-Finnish War, suddenly they were declared Fascist Nazis for opposing Soviet Russia. They sided with the German Nazis in 1942-1945 to protect them from Nazi occupation of Finland and to regain their Finnish lands. Bad Choice, but what better choice did they have? Britain, France and the USA didn’t do shit for Finland. Neutrality! I hope it works out better for Ukraine.
In the meantime, watch all the many Democrats and Republicans that suddenly get rich from the Billions that have been sent to Ukraine and grafted by the Ukrainians and the European NGOs. Yes, IT IS CORRUPT. Still Better than Russian Occupation.
The discussions of a war which the Ukraine cannot win is not in the least entertaining or enlightening. To think that Russia does not have the military power to wipe the Ukraine out is to not think. To desire the involvement of other nations to the point of another global war is beyond stupid, it is insane.
Ukraine might not win this war, but Russia has already lost it.
Even if Russia eventually overrun Ukraine, their armed forces will be in shambles. It arguably already is. NATO will have no fear of Russia’s conventional forces, for they’ve seen how inept it is. They’ll have intensely studied this war to see what tactics works against Russian forces and where its weaknesses are.
Wrong.
You’re hilarious km. Is that some some kind of Nietzsche-ism you just spouted?
Even your corrupt, bought and paid for propaganda media, is now regularly admitting that the Ukes are LOSING. That was quite the shift they admit now.
I didn’t say that Ukraine was winning the war. Had you been paying attention you would have noticed that.
But I’m not sure Russia is either. It has lost about a third of it’s total land-force capability in the last four months. Neither side can continue to sustain this rate of loss. They’ll be nothing left of either side.
“Even your corrupt, bought and paid for propaganda media”
I get much of my information from Oryx, Phillips O’Brien, and other credible sources. The MSM isn’t much good. Often the reporters can’t tell a T-62 from a T-92. Where do you get your information? Qanon? Russia Today?
Bullshit, Russia will come out of this very intact and from a better position.
All you armchair bozos cheering for the Ukes still can’t tell a rational person what damn interest Canada has in the Ukraine. The answer is none. Canada and NATO need to stay out of a domestic spat between two flavors of unhinged slavs. No Canadian blood or treasure should be spent on a country where Canada’s sole interest is driven by a nazi deputy PM. Go ahead, Uke-loving smart bois. Tell us what interest Canada has in prolonging Ukraine’s agony and turning a localized conflict into an all-out European war. You can’t. And spare me the Siberian mongol talk. They’re all uncivilized in that part of the world, Ruskies, Ukes, Polacks.
Never fight a war believing your own side’s propaganda. The fight over Donbas was essentially a fight over administrative control by one corrupt regime instead of another. The war was triggered by some 8 years of US military training of Ukrainian forces for fighting Russia, combined with establishing a ring of “defensive” biolabs (Wuhan wet markets) near Russia. Russia has been signalling clearly this is unacceptable to them but the US pressed on, sacrificing Ukrainian people to their geopolitical ambitions. Lots of people see this clearly, from Chomsky to the Pope to the president of Mexico. The NATO and allies comprise some 750 million people, whereas the BRICS+ are over 3 billion and drawing in allies. China and Russia have been doing naval war games to take control of the strait between Taiwan and Japan. The US has been using cancel culture over what should be neutral public resources to impose its moral agendas on the world while sucking wealth out through dollar-denominated trade as net exporting countries are compelled to hold reserves of rapidly printed dollars to fund US decadence. The geopolitical reality is that most of the world are by their actions no longer buying into the US/EU propaganda.
*G7 comprises some 750 million people
In other words, Putin took it easy on the Ukrainians in the beginning in hopes that they would negotiate a peace promising to be like Sweden and Finland (remain non-NATO and neutral). When the Ukrainians under their “fearless” leader Zelenski (and billions of war materiel from NATO and other countries) decided to keep fighting, the Russians took the gloves off and will leave Zelenski with the most useless parts (no ports, no arable land, no NG/oil) of what was called Ukraine as a buffer against NATO–with the caveat that they cannot join NATO and that if any uppity Ukrainians decide to get stupid a sh!t-ton of artillery will bombard the grid square into oblivion with everybody in it becoming “not a problem anymore.” I’m just surprised Russian Spetznaz haven’t pin-pointed Zelenski’s position and taken him off the playing field. I’m also surprised that Justin Trudeau (whose father was infamous for NOT taking part in any American military junkets)–gave so much to and supported a non-NATO country in which Canada has no tangible interest.
So Putin’s has taken it easy on the Ukraine’s so far, has he? Was the panicked retreat from Kiev also part of the plan? How about losing more than 800, and perhaps up to 1200, tanks?
Let me state the blindingly obvious. None of this was part of anyone’s plan. Putin wanted a fast victory. Instead he got slow, bloody war of attrition.
I’m old enough to remember reading military strategists pointing out at the outset that it was obvious (based on troop ratios) that Russia was not sending an occupying force to Kyiv and that it’s two intentions were to weaken Ukrainian positions and disable bio weapons labs and to keep the bulk of Ukrainian forces out of Donbas where Russia could establish a favourable troop and materials ratio to mount an occupying force. So that was all planned from the outset. What was apparently not in the plan was moving south along the Black Sea coast. I agree with Mearsheimer (University of Chicago professor) that this push down the coast seems to have been added as a result of Russia’s success in the Western Ukraine after the US foreclosed the possibility of meaningful negotiation.
“I’m old enough to remember reading military strategists pointing out at the outset that it was obvious (based on troop ratios) that Russia was not sending an occupying force to Kyiv”
I don’t recall that at all. Can you cite some of those strategists? It sounds a mite revisionist.
Further, Russian military leadership has been so shoddy that I wouldn’t credit to a plan what can be adequately explained by incompetence. Russia totally misused its tanks at the beginning of the war, and they lost hundreds of them in a few weeks as a result.
Who exactly says Russian leadership is shoddy? The American/NATO military generals who are more obsessed with using the correct pronouns, promoting transvestite culture in uniform and spending their scant training budgets on diversity training instead of conducting exercises that simulate actual war situations that the Ukrainians are experiencing right now? Seriously?!?! You believe them?
I can’t remember the people involved–I didn’t try to learn their names then, listening to so many podcasts and interviews at the time. The best sources are through financial blogs, especially gold bugs or people like Tom Luongo. They interview ex-marines or embedded ex-pats to get a sense of what’s really going on. Why? Because they invest real money and need facts, instead of propaganda. It’s hard to find them again for all the internet censorship. The 3:1 rule is a longstanding rule of thumb in military strategy, so with a Ukrainian army of some 200,000 the Russians would have needed some 600,000 to invade and occupy. They only put up 3:1 in Donbas region, the rest was tactically diversionary. If you follow the financial links and analysis, you would have made money going long on the ruble, as it was obvious to everyone from Jim Rickards to Tom Luongo the Russians had this entire scenario extremely well planned out over the 8 years the Americans were arming Ukraine and preparing sanctions. So while US propaganda was chest-thumping on how the plucky Ukrainians were defeating hapless Russian troops and the ruble was reducing to rubble, the Russians now occupy Donbas and a little more (some 20% of Ukraine), and the ruble is the top-performing currency in 2022, recently trading at a 7-year high. China, India and other populous and resource-rich nations are joining Russia and ramping up petroleum and coal buying and consumption. I place a high value on correct predictions and the US Ukraine war propaganda has held up about as well as “two weeks to flatten the curve” and “these ‘vaccines’ are the only way to herd immunity.”
Letting Ukraine decide what it wants to do is BS provided to pacify the dumb masses.
NATO will make sure Ukraine fights to the end so as to deplete Russia as much as possible. Russia cannot be trusted so better to keep them weak rather than strong. NATO doesn’t care what the Ukrainian people want. It’s bigger stakes at play.
Even though Russia is a natural ally to fight China. And china covets Siberia. China is playing Russia. China plays everyone.
NATO can’t make Ukraine fight to the end if it doesn’t want to. NATO doesn’t have that much power.
But Ukraine might of its own volition.
Thats why they are promising reconstruction money. To make sure Ukraine keeps fighting.