57 Replies to “Awkward”

  1. The Ukrainians just want all invaders to go away. In 1941 the Russians had just murdered 12 million Ukrainians so the Germans appeared as liberators. Remember that Stalin killed more Russians than Hitler did.

    1. so scarp
      This does not go along with your BULLSHIT take on what is happening over there!

    2. You’re rationalizing. Historians disagree on the nature of the Holodomor, whether it targeted the Ukraine independence or was an unintended consequence of collectivization of agriculture (i.e. communist incompetence). Certainly it was not limited to Ukraine. You might have forgiven the Ukrainians who joined the Germans 80 years ago to fight the Soviets, but not for joining the Germans to massacre Jews, and certainly not honouring those Ukrainians 80 years later.

      1. “Certainly it was not limited to Ukraine.”

        They killed lots of other minorities too, but very few Russians.

      2. I don’t think anyone disagrees on the depravity of the Holodomor. Except maybe for Kremlin propagandists.

        Stalin made it a point to destroy Ukrainian culture and identity. He exported millions of tons of grain to get the foreign currency he needed to industrialize Russia.

        There was no mistake, it was deliberate

        1. Communists are good at killing people….there was another famine earlier in Russia (Povolzhye famine) which killed as many or more than the Holodomor. It too was deliberate.

  2. rumour has it that the Purple Perogie has a Bandera portrait on her ample inner thigh.

    Tattooing on cottage cheese takes a steady hand and stomach of iron.

      1. Never in all my years exploring the depraved corners of the interwebs have I come across such a deeply disturbing photo. In order to cleanse my eyes I must send it to everyone on my contacts list with the headline (Kathy Ireland bikini pic 1992)

    2. ” … takes a steady hand and stomach of iron.”

      And a clothespin, I would imagine.

  3. I’m not going to pretend to know everything about this Bandera character but you have to admit it’s more than a little odd that Nazi death camps Sobibor and Treblinka, both located in Poland, was guarded in no small part by Ukrainians who outnumbered their SS bosses 15 to 1.
    Or as one survivor put it during the trial of Ukrainian John Demjanjuk, who faced trial in Israel in the 80’s of being “Ivan the Terrible” at Treblinka:
    “I didn’t know a lot about them…,” he said. “The Ukrainians were on one side of the process of murder, and I was a Jew on the other side.”

    That’s all I know.

    1. burton
      You just called a Jew a Jew, you must be antisemitic then, that’s what “they” insinuate I am when do that!

  4. You might want to read Timothy Snyder’s ” Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin” but keep in mind the region is as complicated as the Balkans. Snyder is a bit loopy on Trump.

    1. Yup, I’ve read that book…in fact it may have been you who recommended it. Yes, very complicated.

    2. I am glad people are getting familiar with that book. I was recommending it for years. The lack of understanding Westerners typically exhibit towards anything happening east of French German border typically results with “Bander = fascist => Ukrainians are Nazis” sophisticated levels of argument that lines up perfectly with Kremlin propaganda.

  5. With each village in Little Russia purged of its Ukrainian Nazi population, with each fascist swine and sow put down or deported to Siberia, the Six Million sleep a little bit better.

    1. More M142s and M270s are coming. NASAMS too. Snake Island is abandoned. Ukraine is pushing towards Kherson.

      Meanwhile Russia is putting T62s and T55s into service. what’s next T34s and Studebakers?

      1. Coincidently, Polish munitions factories are running on three shifts 24/7 to supply Ukraine. Small arms ammo, mortar shells, 122 and 152 mm russian pattern ammo and 155mm NATO ammo all making its way to Ukraine in volume.

      2. Ukraine is not “pushing to Kherson”, nor have they sustained a counterattack anywhere in the last couple months for more than a few days. Name the towns Ukraine took and held in the last 2 weeks. I’ll compile a similar list for the Russian advances and we can compare notes.

  6. Let’s see … a small country stuck between a mass murdering dictator and another mass murdering dictator. Now we’re going to excoriate them for choosing the losing mass murdering dictator because the winning mass murdering dictator is attacking them again and it’s causing global shortages.
    Has Russia repented in sackcloth and ashes for the mass killings they did, or does Putin still glory in the history of Russia? I think the pro nazi tilt Ukraine may have is way less serious than the pro Soviet tilt that Russia has.

    I have a whole lot of issues with everything going on over there on both sides. But I can understand how Ukraine would be just a little bit anti Russia, and how that drives extremism the other way.

    1. You don’t have to be supportive of the “winning mass-murdering dictator” by calling out the “losing mass-murdering dictator” saying that the losing mass-murdering dictator, is a mass-murdering dictator.

      I just don’t like the idea of sending BILLIONS of dollars to the losing mass-murdering dictator, just because he’s a losing mass-murdering… I’m losing track… mass-murdering dictator.

      A little glib, I know, but I think that my point should be clear enough. I WILL NOT SUPPORT MASS-MURDERING DICTATORS no matter which side they’re on.

      2. The Ukrainians weren’t the losing mass murdering dictators. That would have been the Germans, with the winning mass murdering dictators being the Soviets. The Ukes were the ones stuck in the middle.

    2. “Has Russia repented in sackcloth and ashes for the mass killings they did, or does Putin still glory in the history of Russia? ”

      Putin did make a statement a few years back to the effect “we must face the fact that there are parts of our history we are not proud of”. I’ll try to find the exact full translation. Not sure exactly what he was referring to. Context is everything in those kinds of comments.

      1. That’s not an apology and barely an acknowledgement.

        Russians can’t try to relive the glory days of the tsars they murdered in revolutions and they can’t try to resurrect the murderous legacy of communism that they eventually disposed of.

        Pick a lane, guys.

        1. People can judge for themselves what Putin said. The search for the truth doesn’t have “lanes”. Lanes are for the weak minded who need things in tidy little boxes.

          1. Like the Russians and the left and …

            And, no, Putin the communist would never admit to wrong-doing.

    3. Honor and courage have always been difficult for men. It is today. Look around at what is happening world wide, honor and courage are lacking. Petty tyrants in Canada and the US want to poison their populations and only a few of us are pissed enough to tell them where to get off. Most are lining up for more of the same. Look at Aussie land, fascist NZ, it is astounding the lack of courage exhibited by men.

    4. “I think the pro nazi tilt Ukraine may have is way less serious than the pro Soviet tilt that Russia has.”

      I somewhat agree but, Ukraine does not have a pro nazi tilt. They have pro independence at all cost (including third party corpse) tilt. I can respect that. They committed evil deeds in the past (ex Volhynia massacres, that they swept under the rug), but attempts to link them to Nazis on ideological plane are manufactured Kemlin propaganda.

      As for pro soviet tilt in russia. It is a pro russian tilt in russia. Soviets weren’t aliens teleported from outer space speaking Sovietia. They were russians speaking russian. Soviet Union was russian empire under new management.

      Russian persecution of Ukraine and delusional pretense to shared cultural roots (mostly bullshit as rusians culturally are Mongols)) and thus a right to deny Ukrainian statehood, did not start with SU and did not end with SU.

      The problem is russians being russian, and the only solution is to kill them.

  7. Have we heard anything from the Honorable Member For Post-National Socialism?
    Or is Friedland still marching with the Nazi flags?

  8. Mea while Russian is erecting Soviet, Lenin, and Stalin statues in cities they occupy

  10. I am not going to pretend to know what is actually happening. Did it have its roots in the history of of nearly a hundred years ago? Well, maybe. If I was to bet I would guess this mess is much more a result of more recent history and that corruption and greed of those leaders involved. I don’t see any good guy leaders on any side. And the leaders don’t care who they sacrifice to avoid accountability. As always, it is the serfs who will pay the price and it may be a very steep one for all of us before it is done. God save us.

  11. Can we get out of this ethnic conflict now?

    The powers that be have their own reasons for supporting this but, aside from some humanitarian aid, we don’t.

    The Russians and Ukrainians don’t need our intervention to hate each other more effectively.

    1. No, but Ukrainians need our help to survive. And help we should, not only helping humans against orcs is a principled thing to do, but Ukrainians are doing us a great favor degrading russian capability. So yes, help them kill russians, supply them with weapons, ammo and maximum amount of clandestine help like intel sharing etc so they prevail. And then Marshal Plan their country back on its feet.

      Russia needs to be pushed into the bloody ditch of Siberian vs mooselimb civil war. It is coming anyway, we should be trying to speed it up. No refugees from that conflict unless they qualify as “neither” should be allowed into civilization.

      1. Uh, no.

        Humanitarian aid and then walk away from both Russia and Ukraine.

        They don’t need us to hate one another.

  12. I’m quite tired of all of this. It’s the 106th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme where 20,000 allied soldiers were slaughtered on opening day. And why? All because some Euro trash inbred Archduke monarch no one ever heard of took one in the dome in Serbia, thus signalling the start of the most murderous century in world history. Canadian kids getting killed just because Euro elites wanted to play Empire.
    Let Europeans put on their big boy pants for once and clean up their own dog shit in their yard. Wanna have at it with Russia…be my guest. I’m not rooting for anyone…just keep us the hell out of it.

  13. In 1812 napoleon marched to Moscow in an attempt to take over Russia. Late that year he marched back minus 500,000 men.

    In 2022 the Americans started fighting the Russians in Ukraine. Should be another interesting history lesson to come out of it.

  14. In 1812 Napoleon marched through occupied by russia Poland. His army were greeted as liberators.

    In 1941 Hitler was marching through occupied by russia Ukraine. His army were greeted as liberators.

    Almost as if there was a pattern there.

    1. I’m not going to defend Russia but the French sure seemed to be a long way from home when they entered Moscow.

      1. Long way from home, sure. But not a long way from the lands of Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth they were nominally liberating. I am not saying the French were noble, but I am looking at Ukrainian response in 1941 through the same lense as Polish response in 1812, both entirely reasonable.

    2. I doubt the Ukranian Jews saw the Germans as “liberators”. And neither did the Polish Jews. Almost as if there was a pattern there.

  15. Context, context, context.

    In the western Ukraine in the early 1930s, the Poles and Russians were occupying powers, engaging in severe repression of the resident Ukrainians…. Repression far more severe than that of the British in any of their colonies, despite the claims of our American friends.
    The Holodomor was no less deliberate, no less evil and its millions of victims no less DEAD because it also affected non-Ukrainian minorities in other parts of the Soviet Empire.

    There were collaborators in every occupied country in the early 1940s, but few would argue that that makes -say – the French, Danes, Poles or Norwegians undeserving of independence.

    How about we stop grasping at historical straws to avoid recognising some of the most basic principles of liberty and justice NOW.
    1. A people/nation is entitled to self-determination.
    2. A belligerent Dictator should be resisted.
    2a….. If a belligerent Dictator is permitted to get what he wants by violence, he has no reason to stop. How many were tripping over themselves to argue that Czechoslovakia was “not our problem” in the late 30s?

    1. “1. A people/nation is entitled to self-determination.”

      Excellent point. Then you would agree to holding UN-supervised elections in the oblasts of Ukraine, whereby the citizens could choose whether they wanted to be part of Ukraine, or optionally join Russia or become an independent republic. It would save a lot of destruction and bloodshed.

      1. Idiotic point. You don’t get to ethnically cleanse a country, settle in your vermin and then demand a referendum. Removing russians from civilization is a human right.

  16. Stepan Bandera was a patriot in wartime. He collaborated with the Germans because they were protecting his people from extermination. He collaborated with the Nazis because they were in charge of the Germans.

    His forces killed significant numbers of Jews and Poles. To some extent, this was because some of his forces were hard-core exclusive nationalists, who wanted a purely national Ukraine with no foreign elements, and didn’t mind who they killed to that end. To some extent, some had personal grudges against individual Jews and Poles, and action against the community either expedited the personal vengeance or made a satisfying substitute for it. To some extent, there were actual anti-semites of the kind we are told to consider typical. Bandera was in no position to impose iron discipline, he had to take action as his disparate forces were ready to take it. And to a large extent, Jews and Poles were disproportionately overrepresented in the groups that Bandera was targeting – especially collaborators. The extent to which anyone was moved to kill because he was a Nazi, or even wanted to be like a Nazi, is a bit of a matter of conjecture.

    The only basis on which it makes sense to regard Bandera and the Banderists as Nazis is Comrade Stalin’s. Nazis make war on Comrade Stalin; these people are making war on Comrade Stalin; these people are Nazis. If what’s good enough for Comrade Stalin is good enough for you, there’s the matter settled. That’s why I don’t think any less of Glenn Greenwald who is an old commie, and fairly entitled to an old commie point of view. Anyone else might usefully ask, just what standards apply when your people are being slaughtered in front of you, and how harshly should we judge Stepan Bandera? How harshly should we judge the people he defended if they recognize him for it?

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