Global- Manitoba man travels overseas for knee surgery, bills province for cost
The cost of the trip to Lithuania, which included the knee replacement and full two weeks in rehab, was $14,500, compared to the over $21,000 price tag for the surgery at home in Manitoba.
Johnson said part of the problem is that the term ‘elective’ doesn’t necessarily reflect the seriousness of many Manitobans’ conditions.
“‘Elective’ sort of implies somehow it’s voluntary, not totally necessary. But there are many people in this city, in this province, who are waiting for hip and knee surgery who are simply immobile.
“They call it a waiting list, but that implies management, and in reality, it’s more akin to a large corral that they put people in.”
Update: ‘I won’t be here next year’: Canadians robbed of life by delayed diagnoses amid pandemic
She said the situation is frustrating for doctors because COVID-19 restrictions imposed by federal and provincial governments are “really out of our control,” she says. Despite this, Malak said it is usually the doctors who get the brunt of a patient’s anger over these disruptions to health services.
You can get it done in Toronto for $25,000. In Alberta my patients can suffer for two years prior to getting a replacement.
he’s not one of the protected classes of sportsball athletes or politicians, so bottom of the waiting list for him….
Canada’s health care system is broken and beyond repair. My father had to wait for seven years on a waiting list for a hip replacement. He only moved up when he was actively investigating going to the States for care. At the time it would have cost the same as a new car. We thought it was worth paying, not to be crippled anymore. A few years after his surgery he had to have the other side done. I always wonder what his quality of life would have been had he been treated like a dog, who in Canada can have surgery in weeks from finding a problem. All it takes for quality health care is money at least for pets. To bad its not legal to buy insurance to cover elective surgery outside of Trudeau land. I tried a few times over the years, if my life goes as my fathers has I don’t want to wait suffering for treatment that may never be provided.
Of course if you are an athlete, politician or connected with powerful people there is no wait here. We already have at least a two tear healthcare system, it is just kept quiet as politicians works at scaring people with stories of jumping the q if canadiens had a choice of going to privet hospitals for their health care needs.
Anybody know of Main Stream Media folk being quietly shortlisted for surgeries?
If you require medical care, the first doctor you should see is yourself. Examine your life in full detail. Your diet, your routines, your sleep habits, family genealogy, are you eating correctly for your blood group, sugar levels, fresh air and sun, mental health and on and on. No doctor is going to care as much as you do about your life. You may not find the answer, but when you do see a doctor, you will supply him/her with a lot more information with which to assess, and then you can also hold them more accountable as you are more self aware.
That’s a pipe dream.
they can only do what a rationed system has available.
I was diagnosed as borderline officially blind about 4 years ago. The doctor told me it was likely I would not have to wait more than 3 years to have it corrected, if I met all the requirements. Two weeks and 10K later I had the cataracts removed and vision corrected for in Texas. Manitoba Health would not reimburse me any of the costs as they deemed it “elective”. The are two private clinics in Canada, one in Abbotsford (?) B.C. and another in QC. Wait times average about 6-9 months and overall cost comparable to the U.S.
Our “free” system is totally broken. It may be universal health care, but it far from universally accessible.
Had a cousin from Saskatchewan diagnosed with cancer about 12 years ago. Doctor all but told him he was SOL, there was nothing he could do. Cousin was financially well off, decided to head down to one of those cancer clinics stateside (Minnesota?). Got treated, cancer in remission for 8 years.
As it turned out, the cancer eventually came back, he sought treatment in Mexico, it was unsuccessful & he passed about 2 years later.
Moral of the story is, he was able to spend 10 years with his wife & kids after basically receiving a death sentence from Sask Health Care. I just hope there is a special place in hell for these bastards.
The system is in the main working quite well, it’s just the actual health care that’s lacking.
There’s a surgical hospital in Oklahoma that refuse ALL insurance plans. Cash on delivery, and you can work out a payment plan with them in advance. Due to not having insurance payments, they do their utmost to make sure everything is actually necessary. Not surprisingly the cost to patient is usually 1/3 of the other similar procedures.
I’m dealing with the same sort of deal with my hips. Theyve never been all that good my whole life. It is a congenital defect (born with it). Problem is, I’m not on any sort of waiting list yet it has a huge impact on my life.
The neck of the femur has a lot of excess bone that needs to be shaved down. It should look like a mushroom, reliefs behind the rounded end that goes into the hip socket. Instead its shaped like the big end of a baseball bat.
28k USD down south. I should just do it already. Even though it is elective, doing so would probably have a huge positive impact on my health the rest of my life.
Yea you should get it done sooner rather than later, my husband had two ankle surgeries both failed but it was worth a try. We pay in access of 6000 a year for dental and prescription coverage, can’t afford to get sick in Canada.
Where is that Sunshine list I saw the other day..??
That AHS list of umpteen Trough Feeders…?? Theres your reason of what, why our system is broken.
10 Layers of totally redundant management all paid over 200k annually….while providing squat.
I waited 2 yrs 7 months for knee replacement.
My neighbour across the highway is on the wait list for hip replacement. She’s been told she can hope for December 2023 as she’s not totally disabled. She can barely walk for the pain most days.
The last orthopedic surgery my husband had was a real eye opener, I couldn’t believe how many young and healthy men were waiting for hip or knee replacement surgeries. His doctor trained a young woman who started her own practice in a rural area, the wait list shrunk fast then they cut her operating hours and she had to leave the province. We have rationed care, it’s not healthcare anymore.
Been on a waiting list for two years for a GP.
I had a very good one before I retired, but I couldn’t fit him in the suitcase, same with the urologist I had an appointment with for my bi yearly checkup, cancelled due to the Wu flu, so I’m four years from the last checkup and it isn’t getting better.
I pay a nurse practitioner thirty-five dollars when I need a script.
We don’t have health care. It’s a lie.
Cracked a hip mountain biking in a small town in Oregon, went to the hospital at 2 PM, in surgery at 5 pm, they brought a surgeon in from another town who interrupted his supper to do it. No problem, no issues, 7 weeks to recover fully, back at work in 3 weeks, cost $20,000.
A friend broke his hip in Calgary, required emergency surgery, waited 10 days, lost the hip joint (no blood supply) had to get a hip transplant. Months to recover. Lost his business. Cost???? immeasurable.
Canada’s medical system is absolutely flooded with useless administration and managers who do nothing but empire build and the system is very reluctant to add beds , surgeons, and operating rooms. They work very hard to take any efficiency’s and rock stars out of the system. Worked at AHS for 5 years, actually got written up for attempting to help a private clinic with their invoicing on my own time. The place is brutal and dysfunctional.
Dr. Brian Day (Cambie Surgery Centre Vancouver) was once leader of the CMA in the 90’s maybe.
He proposed that the government should provide everyone with healthcare accounts. Get the bureaucrats out of running and building hospitals and just keep track of the healthcare accounts etc.
The services, hospitals, diagnostics would all be privately run. No government funding. all revenue comes from the patients requesting the services.
The difference:
In the current system, there is annual budgets. When a patient comes in the front door looking for service/treatment he is seen as a liability, it comes out of the budget. Also a bureaucrat’s measure of success is size of budget and head count under his authority, results not so much, no accountability.
In Dr Brian Day’s proposed system, the patient is treated with open arms. The hospital cannot survive without them, excellent efficient service, accountable and a competitive marketplace.
Wait times times would decline, costs would go down and quality of service would go up.
Pros: The public sector unions would be denied a monopoly, costs would go down and wait times would be shortened.
Cons: There would need to be vigilance by a provincial citizen health councils (not politicians) to prevent a Blackrock or Vanguard from buying up all the hospitals an creating another monopoly.
The commie whiners keep bleating that there should be no “profit” in healthcare? Well the public sector unions and the bureaucrats are making out like bandits. The CMO in Manitoba Rousilini is in the $450K a year range and probably has not worn a stethoscope or saw a patient in decades.
Also it needs to be said when it comes to serious life threatening issues, they are there and deliver mostly. Serious issues are prioritized and dealt with very quickly and professionally.
It’s the elective issues where the problems crop up. Calling a hip replacement elective when you cannot walk is not elective.
Limited resources require making choices. Joint replacement is down the list. You should be able to have a replacement within a month. Small private clinics would make that happen, all covered by public health. MRI/CT should all be available within a week. The unions are gatekeepers driving up the cost.
Case in point, St Boniface Hospital built an atrium joining a few buildings and creating a common entrance about 7 to 10 years ago. They decided to put a Tim Horton’s in one of the CRU’s and a franchisee was selected to proceed with the tenant fit up and get it running. The caveat was that it had to be staffed by union staff from the hospital. After 6 months he said he was shutting it down as he was losing his shirt. They relented and let him staff it as they would normally. It reversed his fortunes and is still there after 7 or 8 years + and going strong.
There are solutions, but too many vested interests to let them happen.
When you walk through the door of a government run hospital you are viewed as a “cost” not a “customer”!
That’s the truth of it all.
What is it that Kate always says…Tommy Douglas not……….
I can’t speak to how other provinces do it, but in Alberta, the plan is to apportion funds to each hospital with the directive to “make it last”. No need for outcomes or results, just “make it last”. Easy to do that if you don’t do anything.
“…doctors take the brunt of the anger…”
Poor dears.
About time they grow a pair, of get a backbone.
Exactly.
“She said the situation is frustrating for doctors because COVID-19 restrictions imposed by federal and provincial governments are “really out of our control,” she says.”
Bullshit. You simply refuse. The government can shut down the system if it wants then.
I have zero respect for anyone in the medical field after this Covid fiasco. They are as much the grifters as the bureaucrats and administrators.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why the COVID scamdemic has been blown out of all proportion. The issue was never the virus but the useless health care system’s inability to cope with it.
It was is and continues to be a flu and it is correct, the medial care system can’t even handle the flu.
In Ontario you cannot get an eye exam if you are over 65 , opticians and OHIP are in dispute .
I am well over 65 and get an eye exam yearly, plus one day and it is covered by ohip. The special test I have along with the regular exam costs me about $75.
Close family member in BC needed a hip replacement 3 or 4 years ago Middle 50s, single and occupation requires walking, physical work, etc. Was very close to needing a wheelchair. Told at least a year, could be two. Did not give a damn how they were going to support themselves. Generosity of family sent them to Texas TWO WEEKS after contacting a clinic down there. Also, the surgery technique they use in Texas is far less invasive and much faster recovery time than what is currently happening here in public system. And absolutely no consideration to re-imburse at least a partial cost here – saved this crap system money and freed up a space for someone else on that list.
Also, just try keeping a terminally ill family member at home. Family stepped up completely and took over all care except for morphine shots last three weeks of life. Home care nurse did come for that but try getting anything else. Example – came time to get a hospital bed from the local Health Care Unit. Hah – three layers of bureaucracy. 1. Try to find the right person to write up a requisistion. 2. AHS required that someone come out an assess the patient for need – like the family did not know what was needed at this point. Another wait. 3. Wait and wait for that assessment to get into the system. No sign that it was important – finally dealt with it privately. Attempted twice to meet with MLA to discuss how this type of care could be improved for families willing to take this on – saves the system a LOT of money. Never had the courtesy of a reply. They don’t give a damn.
Government run healthcare.
Cannot have compassion ,nor competency,for the Good Enough for Government mentality rules.
No bureaucracy is capable of basic service ,for cover your ass is the only imperative.
These last two years,ought to have proven this ,for everything government touches turns to crap and when we follow the money,we see what our “Servants” have considered important..In a crisis.
Health crisis?
Deny the citizens access to medical services,impose home arrest and fine the mutinous into slavery..
Lots of “enforcers” hired these last two years..
Seen any new Intensive Care Units?
Any emergency hiring/training of new medical personnel?
Any expansion of health service at all?
And how about spending on investigation of effective treatments?
Seems that there is zero interest amongst our “Health Care Experts” to find first aid for the Dread Covid…
Very strange behaviour in a “Healthcare Crisis”..
Malice?
Or Incompetence?
Does it matter anymore?
These people,declared a crisis.
Then they showed us all.
How they behave.
In a crisis.
Firing them all is far too civil a reward..For their “HELP”!
Yet this health care system is what Canadians overwhelmingly say they want. They want it free and they won’t hear a word against it because “Hurr durr no American style health care.” So this is a clear case of the politicians giving the people what they want, good and hard.
Retired here to Nova Scotia in 2006 from Ontario. I have been on an alleged ‘waiting list’ for a GP since then. If I try to check on-line to see where I am on ‘the list’ I’m directed to phone so I can leave a message and eventually find out I need to re-register to be back on the list. My wife was accepted by an excellent female GP in 2006 but it only lasted a couple of years until the doctor left the province. Trying to get a GP here is a nightmare, doesn’t help by being ‘from away’. If we have a health issue we have to visit a local clinic where local GP’s serve on a duty roster. If we are lucky and there is not a sign on the door saying ‘closed we apologise for any inconvenience’ we get to spend most of the day there in the waiting room. Referrals to other doctors or specialists result in appointments months or as much as a year away. Some other posters hit the nail on the head – rationed health care is what it is.
You can be from “there” and still have a problem getting a GP if your doctor leaves, dies or retires.
Whenever you see bumper stickers and lawn signs promoting “public healthcare” it translates to “management and union brass will do whatever it takes to protect its turf”. No one else benefits from public healthcare.
“Sorry, no simple routine lifesaving surgery for you. But we have a great MAiD package to offer!”
The fake pandemic is killing people in more ways than one.
My wife just got her hip replaced in Calgary last week for $28K. Sask govt wont offer reimbursement because the Sask surgeon would not write a letter saying it was necessary. The surgeon in Alberta said the hip had pretty much disintegrated. Hope the ghost of Tommy Douglas does haunt us.
The Canadian healthcare system is awesome …. until you’re sick and really need timely care.
I had my back fixed in the USA. If I had relied on Canada I would have been crippled.
Some day more Canadians will pull their heads out of their a** and we can kick the the politicians, bureaucrats, unions, and state run media to the trash. Then rebuild better.
“Some day more Canadians will pull their heads out of their a** and we can kick the the politicians, bureaucrats, unions, and state run media to the trash.”
Call me the day that’s planned. I’ll bring the rope.
I’ll bring the drills, saws and jacks, all made in China, of course.
All we need are guillotines.
Too quick.
Very sorry to hear about all the suffering among my fellow SDA people. For my part, I’m in pretty good shape and more than ready to bring myself and my dog along to the first battle of WWIII. Hell, she’s been ready since she was born. 🙂
The system is working as planned. Dead people don’t cost the system.
” …. COVID-19 restrictions imposed by federal and provincial governments are “really out of our control,”
You mean the covid restrictions that none of you spoke out against?