Nation-building in Germany and Japan meant identifying a totalitarian ideology, isolating its proponents from political power and recreating a formerly totalitarian state as an open society. That is the opposite of what we did in Afghanistan and Iraq, never mind Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Yemen and all the rest.
We did temporarily pursue de-Baathification in Iraq. But the Baathists were just Saddam’s cult of personality. Saddam was a problem in Iraq. But he wasn’t the problem in Iraq. His rule was a symptom of the real problem which was the divide between Sunnis and Shiites. The real problem was Islam.
(h/t Adrian)
As it is…wherever it’s adherents go…
CANCER….that in my opinion, should be treated with copius amounts of radiation….i fear that in the end, it will in fact come to that.
After being initially supportive of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, I came to the same conclusion as this article. Nation building in the Islamic wastelands is futile, costly and only energizes the most retrograde force on the planet. Obama’s policies have likely sealed the fate of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people to be incinerated in nuclear war. Israel will have no options left once Iran can deliver its Nukes. Western civilization has changed from the bastion of Christendom to secular capitalist nations and now to increasingly progressive green theocratic welfare states. Its 1400 year old enemy employs technology of the west but has not evolved beyond that of its warlord creator and his global dominance pathology (theocracy). The “progressive” West has opened the gates.
so john, kristians quit killing scientists and burning witches, and that is a problem???? The problem in the middle east is RELIGION, full stop! As ET pointed out, the rise of the middle class would eventually over take the suppression of the dominant religion over there, but that flew over some peoples heads in the here.
“…As ET pointed out, the rise of the middle class would eventually over take the suppression of the dominant religion over there, but that flew over some peoples heads in the here…”
That is not how I remember it…
“The real problem is Islam.” FIFY
NMEE666
It is Christians that gave rise to the middle class and in general peace in the middle east remember Lebanon was majority christian and very peaceful and beautiful Afghanistan was Hindu and Pakistan was Buddhist and all three were peaceful until Islam became the majority.
Religion is not the problem atheism is the largest murderer of innocent unarmed people in the history of the earth. Stalin, Lenin, Mao, pol pot, Trotsky, mousillini, Castro, Chavez,Ceausescu, hitler….all secular atheists who believed the government was the god of the people Stalin slaughtered christian pastors in the streets because Christians would not co operate with the idea that he was god. So Stalin did like all atheists do slaughter innocent religious people in order to deter others from becoming christian.
nice try though enemy. you live in a nation that is a majority christian do you feel unsafe? i didnt think so …could you say the same for islam?
Talk about problems with islam and whatnot …
I was listening to CKNW 980 Vancouver … the talk radio if you like liberalism. There were a couple of hosts in the afternoon talking about the 1200 more Syrian refugee families coming to Vancouver before Xmas this year. They were falling all over themselves to make clear that they more than welcome these ‘newcomers’ with zero skills and large families who will hate us forever. But they did manage to lightly question the viability of bring so many oddballs into one of the most difficult cities to live in especially if there is no where to live.
Flash back to where the government of Vancouver (commie) and the desperate provincial liberals just imposed a 15% tax on foreign buyers of home in Vancouver … this was some sort of response to the fact that …
THERE IS A ZERO VACANCY RATE IN THE CITY OF VANCOUVER …. HOMELESS ARE EVERYWHERE … BUT THERE WILL BE HOUSING FOUND FOR 1200 MUSLIMS FAMILIES COMPLETE WITH THEIR SIX KIDS EACH WIFE?
As we became a more enlightened socialist type nation, we tossed our brains out the god damned window.
What Vancouver actually needs is an incentivized private sector development company willing to build large numbers of affordable rental housing so the wealthy of Vancouver can have affordable servants. And I don’t mean muslim servants either … they might just poison you one day. Don’t forget the jihad is still on.
Like John Chittick, I too supported the A’Stan and Iraq wars.
UNTIL I did my due diligence and read a dozen or so books on Islam and Islamic history.
Including 5 by Bat Ye’or.
THEN it hit me: this nation-building is a tragic fallacy.
For one thing ‘democracy’ is blasphemy in Islam.
In correspondence with one old friend of 50 years who was angrily against the Iraq war, I finally confessed that I agreed with him; that he was right sfter all. And explained my reasons which were different from his.
But get this: he then took me to task for my “islamophobia” for not believing in the possibility of secular democracy in the area.
But get this 2: He was very keen for the Arab Spring, AND the overthrow of Gadaffi, swallowing hook, line and sinker the Samantha Powers delusional concoction: R2P (responsibility to protect).
In conclusion, despite all tne virtue signalling against the evil of interventionism, he was really only against the other guy’s (Republican) intervention.
Christians were many things (good and bad) but at least the civilization that developed (evolved) with them had the good sense to keep the gates closed to Islam. Now that Christianity has been pretty much replaced with gaia worshiping pantheism combined with statism and the irrational nihilism of progressives, I’m wondering, ironically as an atheist, if we aren’t worse off. The masses seem to need an opiate of some sort. I can live freely among Christians and generally prefer their company to those mentioned above. Those who conflate lack of belief in the hocus pocus with totalitarian statism on the other hand, are a little too far gone.
I would like a little substantiation for the statement “But the Baathists were just Saddam’s cult of personality” Socialism had a bit of a run for its money in the MIddle East, and the Ba’athists were a force in more than one country. Antedated Saddam. The statement may be correct, or may not be, but needs IMHO some justification.