The Canadian Federal Government workers pension alone has a massive 244 Billion dollar shortfall. Massive political and social unrest? Just wait until organized unionized Government workers stop getting their full checks.
It doesn’t matter what party is in power or how anyone feels about it. It’s cold, hard, black and white mathematics. That’s why politicians and the media simply don’t want to talk about any of the 3 possible ways the problem might, just possibly, get solved.
theuglytruth.mp3
“But you owe us our pensions”
We the governing kleptocracy promised ourselves that money,you must pay.
“We worked so hard for you”, Borrowing your grandchildren into slavery, granting ourselves every perk and pleasure at taxpayer expense.
We worked so hard, creating a welfare state that could not be paid for, even in good times, we worked so hard, investing your money, in losing businesses and hair brained schemes that benefited no taxpayer but did enrich some of our own.
We worked so hard at impoverishing the taxpaying citizen to the point over 50% of their income is stolen by us and another 1/3 is impeded by our overreach.
“We are the Guild Of Parasites and you must feed us.”
Well according to the courts, the monies in that account belonged to the government, so they could take the surplus when they chose to and there was never any actual money in that account, just accounting debits and credits
I’m a public servant and firmly believe that sometime in the next 5 – 10 years we’re going to take a 15 to 20% haircut on our DB plans. If that’s what it takes to keep the plan soluble, I’ll welcome it. I don’t expect anyone in the private sector to shed any tears either. And please don’t flame me for being a public servant; I’m as conservative as many of you.
They’ll just pay the pension with no replacement. All the veterans can remember being encouraged to “do more with less,” including pay, especially the occifers. I doubt it will work as well with the unions but that’s what they’ll do. Yes, the unions will freak out at the lost jobs but they’ll just have to go along with “what Canadians want.” There will still be plenty of jobs for the Occupy types, so they’ll be happy too. So for Justin it’s off to further legacy tours.
Actually, I think it’s in the national interest that he spend as little time in Ottawa as possible.
Defined benefit plans should be illegal. They are destined to ruin business and government.
Most of the government employees I know retire at 55. Maybe the average started at 25. That’s 30 years of work. Say they live to 85. That’s 30 years of collecting. All interest does is maintain the balance ahead of inflation. If less than half of people’s wages go toward penions, the system will break.
I heard rumblings of Wynne trying to toss her Ontario one in with the feds
Sunni ways
Not only take pensions, the banksters can take your deposits to bail themselves out…
Say NO to Trudeau’s “bail in” scheme that lets banks steal your money
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF-dunJvFYg
And when they get the electronic currency (cashless society) operational, you’ll have no choice.
You mean they might go on strike, holding back the Long form census.
MY GAWD, its the end of the world, run for the hills, what shall we ever do?
Oh, the Humanity!
I feel for you. I really do. The problem is that Canada will simply borrow more and more until it can’t make its interest payments anymore.
That’s when the fit will REALLY hit the shan.
I’ve been saying this to people at work for years. Thy think I’m nuts at first, then I explain that a pension is foregone pay now for a promise to pay in the future, by an entity that might very well be broke or not exist in the future. Give me my money now, I’m not a child, I am fully capable of planning my own life.
I’m not sure this guy knows what he’s talking about. Since he cited no documents it is really hard to research it.
In the 1990s Chretien and Martin created the Public Sector Plan Investment Board and all the funds deducted from the paycheques went into its coffers from then on. As a matter of fact Martin took $28B that was surplus to requirements in order to lower the deficit in 1999. Here’s a newspaper article about the Supreme Court ruling years later. Sorry, the only article I can find is from the red rag in Toronto.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2012/12/19/public_service_unions_not_entitled_to_28b_pension_surplus_says_supreme_court.html
According to the website the fund for the Public Service, RCMP, Armed Forces and Reserves is doing well.
http://www.investpsp.ca/en/index.html
A few facts.
As of 2013 all new hires do not have the same pension plan. They’ll have to work an extra five years before collecting at a reduced rate among other things.
Glancing at my T4 I paid 8.3% of my paycheque into the pension fund in addition to the maximum CPP contribution. I believe I was paying 4% in the late ’80s when I started. The pension contribution has been going up the past few years and there was an increase this year, my paycheque this January was less than last January.
One of the reasons that pension plans are going to experience default is that in the past 30 years, life expectancy has jumped so much. In the early ’70s the life expectancy for a man was 69years. Thirty years later it was 77years. The average man retiring at 60 years old in the ’70s would draw benefits for 9 years versus 17 years now, almost double.
You just defined what happened in Greece recently.
And young Dopey seems to think that Greece is an ideal economy to model Canaduh after.
Remember, too, it was the civil service and pensioners that paid the steepest price, so, I say, let er happen. As long as its the gubmint workers and their retirees to take the biggest hit………THEY DESERVE IT.
They wanted it, they go it. The parasites take it the hardest
exactly minuteman.
They’ll get their pension. It’ll be accomplished by “blending” your RRSP and CPP into their pot, all in the name of “fairness” of course. Do you really believe that the government is going to chose “you” over “themselves”?
Unfortunately most people think that their RRSP is theirs when in fact it also belongs to the government and it is they who can change the rules when needed.
If you’re still contributing to an RRSP, you need to stop. Don’t let your wealth be the low hanging fruit that the government caste can easily seize.
Correction, Al. YOU didn’t pay 8.3% of your paycheque into the pension fund. Taxpayers did. Because TAXPAYERS pay the GROSS salary costs of all of the public sector…..including the net, CPP (your portion), CPP (employer portion), EI (your portion), EI (employer portion), all your benefits, etc.
All wrong. They will just continue to do as they have been. Services will be curtailed as staffing levels are reduced and jobs are outsourced. Eventually there will be no government employees, just government pensioners. The bc ministry of forests is a prime example of this, as is any municipality one could name.
I agree with all of that, Al. Moreover, should there be a shortfall in the future it will be covered off in one or a combination of reduction in benefits or increase in years in service required before receiving benefits. This is what has been done in the past and undoubtedly will be done in the future.
This kind of nonsense appears because economic illiterates cannot distinguish between obligations that must be met now and unfunded liabilities that may or may not have to be met in the future. Then we have the nonsense coming from BlameCrash, but enough about that silliness.
Shouldn’t be a concern for the Libranos. Hey, they will just label whole mess a “green initiative” and fund it with their carbon-tax.
Today’s Sesame Street has been brought to you by the letter “B”: bunkers, bullion, bullets, bully-beef, beans and bottled water…
I agree it is the defined benefit plan that is the real problem. The government should never contribute more than the employee to the plan. It is irresponsible that one government’s agreement with unions bankrupts future governments.
Naturally the recent court ruling that government is not bound by contract will have no effect on the validity of these promises to pay.
The fact that company pension plans have no priority in bankruptcy will not matter here either.
Business as usual, devalue the money, with which the government keeps it promises,
Can you say;”Zimbabwe Mon?”
The whole premise of progressive policies is the opportunity to live large in the moment, at other peoples expense.
There are no “unfunded liabilities” just outright lies.
“your cheque is in the mail”.
This is Kleptocracy.
Planning for the future?
Operating within a budget?
Integrity?
Such dated,old fashioned ideas.
And the can gets kicked down the road by the selfish (my generation), to be dealt with by the stupid (the selfie crowd).
So this is what “Social Justice” must mean.
I’ve often wondered about how governments manage their pensions.
I taught for several years at a certain post-secondary institution. For most of that time, part of my paycheque went into a mandatory retirement plan which, as it turned out, was managed by the same bunch that handled the one for the provincial civil service.
When I quit, I had the option of either leaving it where it was or transferring it over to my broker. I chose the latter and put it all into a self-directed plan because I wanted to make all the investment decisions. I bought choice stock with the funds and I’m sure there’s much more money in that plan now than there might have been had I left it where it was.
Unfortunately, while I was teaching, I didn’t have that option. Each month, a certain amount was deducted from my paycheque and that’s the last I heard of that money until I got the periodic statement. I had no idea how it was invested or, for that matter, if any of it made a profit. I guess the pension plan managers must have thought I was too stupid to figure such things out on my own.
In the 90s Chretien and the boys took back 30 billion in pension surpluses because the “GOC took all the risks” and were entitled to it, it being the paper pension surplus. The employee contributions alone would self fund a decent pension for if it was managed professionally. Are the guys that hate government employees getting a pension the same ones that talk about the great job the forces, mounties, boarder staff etc do? Just who in particular pisses you off?
“economic illiterates cannot distinguish between obligations that must be met now and unfunded liabilities that may or may not have to be met in the future”
I am proud to be an economic illiterate CGH, since I happen to think that with the CD Howe Institute’s (former Chairman Bill Morneau by the way) projection of a shortfall of 244 billion in the Canadian Federal Government Employees pension, combined with a total projected 78 trillion in unfunded OECD Government pension liabilities (Citibank)…..that there is a very good chance “that unfunded liabilities” will “have to be met in the future”.
That is the point. Your distinction between obligations and unfunded liabilities is not going to save your pension. One good stiff WorldWide recession ought to do it in my illiterate opinion.
Let the unionized folks pay more for their pension premiums, case solved
thats nuthin.
American obligations are 122 Trillion with a ‘T’ as at 2013:
http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/us_debt/us_debt.html
fun fun fun !!!
Im getting gold crowns put in so I can pry them out in 30 years to pay for my funeral.
LOTS of fun over the horizon. my theory, the Americans will stave off paying the piper by using their military to invade and steal the resources they can no longer pay for in an open market.
“Correction, Al. YOU didn’t pay 8.3% of your paycheque into the pension fund. Taxpayers did. Because TAXPAYERS pay the GROSS salary costs of all of the public sector…”
A stunningly stupid statement. This makes the presumption that government provides zero good and services, or that all goods and services should be provided by government free of charge. Your worse than soft headed lefties who all want “free stuff”.
“I am proud to be an economic illiterate CGH,”
Bully for you. Try reading your own posts next time. You just admitted that future conditions can be changed, i.e. “World Recession”, which was precisely the point I made.
And are you sure you want to be taking the advice of Bill Morneau after the absurdly stupid budget he just produced?
“should there be a shortfall in the future it will be covered off in one or a combination of reduction in benefits or increase in years in service”
Just a little bump in the road, right CGH. Sure, nobody’s going to mind too much.
When I was teaching, I paid, personally, into a pension fund. The school board also paid for me into a pension fund. This money should have been put into trust to pay pensions. Instead, the government took the money and put it into general revenue, figuring the new teacher’s payments would cover the pensions of the retiring – just like a Ponzi scheme. Of course, they got into trouble and said there was a shortfall, which, guess what, the government said the teachers should make up.l
Well you would know the “stunningly stupid” given that you seem to wallow in it. The government provides nothing that doesn’t come out of the pockets of taxpayers. You are so ignorant, it should be painful. Next time you pay your taxes of ANY kind (assuming you are in the private sector…..you don’t seem smart enough to be), see if the government budget you are paying into will permit you to only pay the net pay of the government employees.
Oh….by the way, stupid…..I know that NOTHING is free. Only parasites think otherwise. Of which you are obviously one.
Who is the voice in the recording? A printed version that included the source of the numbers quoted would be invaluable. Otherwise the entire argument collapses into a cat-fight between unidentifiable voices yowling in the dark.
Which might very well be what the Crust wants us to do.
Luckily, given the passing Grit power, I mean middle class, crisis, interest rates are low so it’s a “good” time to “invest” in Canadian Liberals, like Bombardier, to borrow from Canadians at $75,000 a job saved. No worries – budget unbalance themselves.
No, it isn’t. Not at all. Here’s one to pin on your wall for future reference:
“Jack Mintz: Liberals’ budget hikes pressure on Canada’s dangerous debt bomb.”
“Then the global financial crisis shook the Canadian economy in 2008. Asset prices fell, especially in equity markets, which are only now returning to previous levels. Paltry Japan-like interest rates now prevail, encouraging borrowing. By 2015, total government gross liabilities had reached 116.5 per cent of GDP, not as bad as the alarming level of 133 per cent in 1995, but 25 per cent more than 2007.”
More alarming is the debt taken on by the whole economy. Total debt among all sectors is now $26.5 trillion, with a net worth of $9.3 trillion, 73 per cent more than 1995, once taking into account different sizes of the economy. While household net worth is bigger than ever at 489.5 per cent of GDP, non-financial and financial intermediate-sector net worth has plummeted to less than 20 per cent of GDP.”
Instead of piling up unfunded liabilities, as it did in Tuesday’s budget, the federal government should address structural impediments undermining our potential for growth. Canada’s growth rate next year will be as good as it can get, given 0.9 per cent population growth and one per cent productivity growth (output per capita). What we need to do is improve productivity, which is a long-run problem, not a short-run stimulus issue. It’s too late for this one, but the next budget should include a wide-ranging set of policies around tax, trade, education and labour-market reforms aimed at boosting productivity, rather than adding to the wreckage of Canada’s debt bomb.”
http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/jack-mintz-liberals-budget-hikes-pressure-on-canadas-dangerous-debt-bomb
So what is the solution? In Quebec many municipalities have poorly funded pension plan for their employees. The province is fighting to implement the model for every dollar the employee contributes the municipality contributes a dollar.
I think it is smart politically because the government doesn’t address the actual benefit and it is something most people understand.
What do you think?
“And are you sure you want to be taking the advice of Bill Morneau after the absurdly stupid budget he just produced?”
The most poignant and true comment in this thread, hands down.
There’s no way that productivity will ever increase under the LIEbrals, so long as they keep throwing borrowed dollars at the welfare classes, for having a heartbeat.
Increasing the EI week qualification to 70 weeks is also a boneheaded move, right out of the OBarky playbook. Pay them to stay home. Ufcking brilliant, just brilliant.
More drivel from you. You admit that government provides goods and services but somehow you want to claim that you pay their taxes etc. By that logic, you pay the taxes of every shopkeeper where you make purchases. Now go away; your absence will add 10 points to the IQ of everyone on the planet. I’m a conservative, so I’m under-estimating. The net benefit may be higher.
Shamrock, I agree with Mintz’s take on all this. But I also agree with DaninBC’s remark that there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell that this government will actually do any of this.Throwing cheap debt at slow growth didn’t work for Japan in the 1990s, and it will have no measurable effect on us now.
Like in Japan, it’s about vote-buying, not actually dealing with the economy.
Its not about taking Bill Morneau’s advice.
It’s that CD Howe Institute’s projection of a shortfall of 244 billion in the Canadian Federal Government Employees pension is, because of Bill Morneau, if anything a lowball number.
The speaker is Michael Campbell of moneytalks.net
Kakola, here is the short version of the CD Howe Report from which the 244 Billion number is derived:
https://www.cdhowe.org/sites/default/files/attachments/research_papers/mixed/e-brief_208_0.pdf
thank you; when the Easter din winds down around here I’ll take a look.
‘This guy’ is Michael Campbell, host of ‘Money Talks’ among other things. He is based out of Vancouver. Check him out, I’m very sure he knows what he is talking about.
H