113 Replies to “You Are Selfish”

  1. I missed it in the article…did Joe mention that homosexual couples must, by his reckoning, be considered selfish? I don’t read so well because I stopped paying for my education to “unselfishly” raise a couple of kids! Accidents happen.

  2. Xiat at September 30, 2012 11:26 AM
    “……… In times of troubles it is much easier when your clan stands behind you.
    btw… the leading cost of unnatural death in USA: self inflicted injuries. Suicides and drug overdose, taking the flag position from car accidents.”
    This article and the comments have caused me to reflect on things.
    Xiat’s reference to suicide…a matter that I always find troubling…regardless the motivation….but…c’est la vie…Although I am technically childless…with out familly…I belong to a clan of sorts.
    My proxy brothers, nephews, and grandkids are the ranks of my comrades in arms. One of the “nephews” one day, seeking my counsel on a matter, reveiled he was 21 before he learned my genuine statis….he had always assumed I was familly….but then declared…..”we look after our own.”
    Abraham was not neccessarilly referring to the God of hosts…when he said…”and I shall lift up my eyes unto the hills from whence comes my strength.”
    BTW….we all die alone, will die alone….It’s just something you have to do yourself.
    Perhaps I am indeed alive, loved, and well….among friends…..

  3. I think you have it backwards Jason. The man on the video was the one complaining about taxes (on an income of, errr, $20000 per year) while hypocritically rationalizing being a parasite who feels no guilt about collecting Social Security and other benefits paid for by the “breeder’s” children. Others posters are questioning the validity of his tax argument.

  5. Jason’s on to something. Sounds like there is a stream of thinking here along the lines of “you must have children to work and pay taxes to cover your medical bills once you get old!”
    Gee, what a persuasive argument LOL
    The fact is that there is a good economic explanation for the decreasing number of people with children. Over the course of a few generations, children have gone from being an economic asset to a liability. Think of the big farm families of 100 years ago where the kids were doing hard work as soon as they were big enough to wield a shovel or an axe.
    These days, children cost big money. Extracurriculars, clothes, toys – all very expensive things. For the most part, the only people having more than four children are either the wealthy (think of MDs or dentists with stay at home spouses) or the oblivious (the stereotypical welfare mom who starts pumping them out at 15).
    Even the most outspoken pro-offspring people I know don’t have more than three children. You would think if 3 children is great, then 6 should be twice as awesome, no? But they don’t do it because it is so damn expensive… if they had 3 more kids then any kind of vacation, entertainment or pleasure beyond what you can do at home for free goes out the window. So the large family has disappeared.
    Not saying it’s right or wrong, it’s just simple economics.

  6. Cappy Cap,
    The main point I take from your video is that a lot of parents “outsource” their kids. And that is spot on.
    One of my friends spends $1500 a month for daycare, and his wife makes about $1500 a month (after taxes). So financially, they bring in the same amount, but get to advance a career (i.e. let someone else do the heavy lifting).
    Two points of issue though:
    1 – Have you read Atlas Shrugged? You seem to take the word “selfish” as a bad thing.
    2 – wth are you doing with the matches? Where is your butane torch?

  7. No kids…. no CPP.
    My only regret in life will be I only had two kids. I should have had five. When it all goes down the sewer hole (and it will), my kids and grandkids are my support structure.
    I’m now trying to convince my girls that they need to have five (at least a full line – 3 offense and 2 defenders. NO Goalies).
    To those that don’t want kids – enjoy your pointless lives!

  8. democracy and individual rites just took one h3ll of a beating in this discussion. Never mind that the religious fruitcakes are putting a $$$ value on life, children and freedom, go figure!!!!!

  9. It amuses me that most of the people I know who decided not to have kids are liberals who insist that giving an increasing proportion of their income to crap that mostly doesn’t benefit them as an individual is a wonderful idea. But they’re not having kids mainly because they don’t want most of their disposable income to go toward supporting someone else. Puzzling.

  10. I have a lot of kids. WHen we were deciding whether tho have kids the main argument against was a selfish one, that is, we liked our lifestyle (consisting mainly of self indulgence). The main argument for seemed to be tradition (which on the face of it seems like a pretty weak argument). In the end we are very happy with our decision.
    Individuals will have many reasons to have children (or not to). In most cases the reasons will , be definition be selfish (reflecting personal needs or wants). I do not presume to judge folks on their decisions on a personal level. From a sociological standpoint however, the future belongs to those cultures whose members choose to have kids (for whatever reason).

  11. Eagle,
    The torch is out of butane.
    The Rest
    1. I pay property taxes, regardless of income. You and kids can mail me a thank you letter.
    2. My god, the arguments are about breeding more kids so they can pay the taxes for the current generation????!!!!
    Yeah, and I’m “selfish.”
    Sheesh

  13. The argument that people who don’t have kids are having their retirements subsidized by those who do is specious. Half the baby boomers will be retired in seven years, at which point the pension system will collapse. There will be no pension for anyone born after 1965, and everyone knows it.

  14. It depends: are you paying for today’s public education or are your property taxes paying back your own subsidized education?

  15. The spectres of female-advantaged divorces, loss of custody and child support payment-bondage dissuades more than a few potential fathers.

  17. Neanderthal caveman Ug turns to his cavemate Ooog and says, “No baby for you. Too much work hunting gathering to feed them”. Says cavewoman Ooog to her cavemate Ug, “You right! Taxes took half of a sabre tooth tiger carcass last week and do you know how much sundance lessons for kids costs?”
    And now you know what happened the the neanderthals.

  18. Enjoy having no kids when you’re younger, because I guarantee when you’re elderly and completely alone in a ‘care home’ where no one cares, you’ll mourn your decision.

  19. Here’s a news flash everyone: We are ALL selfish. And we also can all be capable of selflessness when it suits us.
    We all pay taxes. Some just pay more than others.
    And Cap …. I don’t really care that some people choose not to have kids. That is your business. Please mind it and stay out of mine.
    Stop weighing in on matters concerning childrearing and parenting, as though you know something about it. You don’t. Stop assuming you know about my motivations for having kids. You don’t.
    And as far as your contention that the vast majority of people “breeding kids” are either welfare recipients, or preppies looking for fashion accessories: That is your opinion, and it is a stupid one. Just as stupid as someone who might say that the vast majority of people who choose not to have kids are spoiled brat man-boys who simply cannot handle responsibility.
    And as for your contention that we are all envious of your layabout lifestyle. We’re not. I get a great deal of fulfillment from my busy lifestyle. I like my work. And I like hanging out with my kids. I enjoy watching them in their sports. I love family get-togethers when all of the cousins play together, and when my siblings and I can chill out and talk about life. I love my family in all it’s raucous clamour. I would not trade it for your life. Not if you threw in a billion dollars.
    I understand how you find Joe O’Conner’s article annoying. But your rant was no better.

  20. I assume your parents paid for your private school K-12 education, you likely paid nothing. Which is the point I was attempting to make. The argument that a childless person’s property taxes are paying for other people’s children’s education is debatable. Whether privately or publicly educated, you did not pay for your education. Your parents and (according to their own arguments) childless couples paid for your education. If your ideal world came true and only parents paid the education portion of property tax then you would have never paid a dime for your education. Some might consider that selfish…not me, of course
    No thank-you letter required from us. Our average annual income tax is a bit more than twice the man in the video’s annual income and, by looking at the house, our property taxes are also much higher. Do you think he will send a thank you letter to the higher-income property tax taxpayers for paying more than their “fair share” of the progressively calculated municipal taxes to pay for roads, garbage pickup etc.?

  21. One size does not fit all and it would be a dull world indeed if it did. I fully agree with much of what the Captain said but most important it’s his choice. I have never regretted having children but that was my (and my wife’s) choice. I worked hard to support the family and she worked hard as a homemaker to raise the children. No trips to Europe and mostly camping vacations. No daycare and no dreams beyond being mortgage free and what we could afford. I would never trade lifestyles with Cappy but would also never begrudge the path he chose. Both visions of life have their benefits and drawbacks. We decide and that’s the way it should be.

  22. I would like to know how mr.capitalism is going to enjoy his shanpps and cigars when the sharia is enforced .
    ohh well that’s right he wil be dead by the time it is fully enforced in north america , so piss on the rest fo us and our kids and our kids kids.
    he has no skin in the game casue he is a pussy!!
    I have no problem with him haveing or not having kids none of my buisness but he thinks all his freedoms that he has are his givine to him by himself . and fails to realize that hundres of years ago other peoples kids faught and died so he could today enjoy his shnapps and cigars earning a measly 20k a year!!
    for someone so smart he sure is stupid!!

  23. Does Rumple Minze send Cappy stuff for free, like Macallan’s did for Mordecai Richler? They really should.
    I have always maintained that an awful lot of people don’t really give a damn about their kids. This would be perfectly obvious if most people looked around occasionally instead of just running cliches around in their heads all day.
    BTW, I absolutely think – and lefties, I wasn’t raised to think this; this is postjudice; my mother earned much more than my father, which is probably why I have no siblings, something I’m actually pretty bitter about – I absolutely think that if a)divorce hadn’t been normalized and b)women weren’t expected to have “careers” (because housekeeping and child-rearing is dull but going in to a cubicle every damn day is so very fulfilling, thanks for that insight Betty Friedan) a lot more people would have kids and those kids would be a lot better off.
    Life makes a lot more sense when you realize that the left and all its works are just pure evil.

  24. What Revnant Dream said @ 12:19 and Xiat @ 12:39.
    sasquatch, yes, it is good to have those friends. Have had them for over 40 years.
    We enjoy our children and grandchildren. Yes, we all die alone, but a child will help to make the passage.

  25. medic said: “Enjoy having no kids when you’re younger, because I guarantee when you’re elderly and completely alone in a ‘care home’ where no one cares, you’ll mourn your decision.”
    Because heaven knows there aren’t any lonely old people in “care homes” whose children and grandchildren never come to visit, right? 😉

  26. My son, only 12 years old, has just mowed 2 acres of lawn perfectly, edged a 250 foot long driveway, picked up the dirt/grass from the edging, and then washed and swept the entire driveway.
    Take that you childless yuppies!

  27. HAR!!!
    “Neanderthal caveman Ug turns to his cavemate Ooog and says, “No baby for you. Too much work hunting gathering to feed them”. Says cavewoman Ooog to her cavemate Ug, “You right! Taxes took half of a sabre tooth tiger carcass last week and do you know how much sundance lessons for kids costs?”
    And now you know what happened the the neanderthals. ”

  28. It amuses me that most of the people I know who decided not to have kids are liberals who insist that giving an increasing proportion of their income to crap that mostly doesn’t benefit them as an individual is a wonderful idea.
    Posted by: K Stricker at September 30, 2012 1:47 PM
    A mini lesson in economics: Values are SUBJECTIVE. You can’t make a definitive statement about what or what doesn’t benefit a person. In doing so you are indulging in PROJECTION. Even a cocaine habit may benefit the person according to his scale of values.

  29. “Canada’s latest batch of 2011 census numbers was released Wednesday and revealed that 44.5% of couples are “without children” compared to 39.2% with children.”
    I’d like to know who the other 16.3% of couples are.

  32. Me No Dhimmi said: “You can’t make a definitive statement about what or what doesn’t benefit a person.”
    Actually, you can. Behaviors can be rated for benefit or harm on a functional scale that take into account things like life expectancy, infant mortality, energy available per individual, living space available per individual, and so forth. Based on measurable functional criteria,you can analyze belief systems, customs, family structures, even personal habits and behaviors on a cost/benefit basis.
    Nobody ever does that though, because it always makes the Lefties look bad. Multiculturalism assumes all cultures are functionally equal, but they are not.
    Ours is a lot more efficient on most measures than any other, but LESS efficient than it used to be. Central planning and control is extremely expensive.

  33. And now you know what happened the the neanderthals. ”
    Posted by: Cpt. Capitalism at September 30, 2012 4:09 PM
    Yup. Their competition out-thought them, out-boinked them, out-numbered them, and out-fought them.

  34. YES, The Phantom, but still:
    The cost/benefit analysis is based on the analyzer’s scale of values and by what he considers “functional”.
    Did you know there’s a whole NEW and laughably ridiculous “science” called the “science of happiness”.
    Same problem. Assumptions must be made by the “scientist” as to what constitutes happiness.
    Moreoever, happiness is not a measurable quantity.
    And imagine, say, the UN’s definition of happiness!
    HOWEVER, I most certainly agree with your observations above vis-a-vis the role of Government as Leviathan and the resulting reality that now two+ incomes are needed to raise a family, usually meaning 3 jobs per family: 2 for the woman, 1 for the man.
    I consider the theory that intentionally childless couples are “selfish” to be nonsense on stilts; as ridiculous as scolding the chap above, whose 12-year son did all that yard work, for being selfish.
    There’s probably no such thing as a selfless act anyway!

  35. “There’s probably no such thing as a selfless act anyway!”
    I took that to be a central theme of “Atlas Shrugged”, but apparently I’m outnumbered by the “OMG Rand thinks greed is awesome!” crowd.

  36. Vitriol indeed.
    Last I checked, SDA was a bastion of liberty, small government, and individualism.
    And some are dumping on Cappy cause he chose not to have kids???
    ***
    Well, I’m gonna light up a Padron 5000 Series in solidarity with The Captain. And I will use my butane lighter.

  37. It’s a happiness thing. My 3 grandchildren have given something to my life that was never there before and could only be put there by them and I really couldn’t imagine life without them.

  39. Eagle I dont think anyone gives a rats patooty who has kids and who doesn’t .
    I think it is patriotic to have kids and teach your cultural values to them. How ever I also think it is patriotic to make the concieous effort to not have kids of you don’t want them.
    So that you and or your kids are not a drain on our systems .
    By the way I am for homeschooling and eliminating the public school system, and also private health care.
    As well as eliminating the cpp .
    I am also for little very little to no immigration period even if it means our country dies and is invaded and conquered at least it is obvious as appeased to the creeping sharia and lefy political agendas being slowly foisted upon our kids and us.

  40. There’s probably no such thing as a selfless act anyway
    Let me throw this out there:
    * I use my resources for my goals –> selfishness (the independent man, the John Galt)
    * I use others resources for my goals –> greed (fraudsters, bullies, those perpetually on welfare)
    * I use my resources for others goals –> charity
    * I use others resources for others goals –> central planning-collectivism (most bureaucrats)

  41. Objectivity is subjective! (I saw Love and Death the other day. You can watch the whole thing on Youtube!) I tried to do link around 5:20 but the filter hates me so 🙁

  42. I absolutely agree that “child-free” people should remain that way.
    Posted by: Steve Macdonald at September 30, 2012 7:53 PM
    Bingo, Steve.
    If that’s their choice – it’s fine with me. 😉

  43. The modern industrial (i.e. Westrn) world is failing in the most basic function of any species – reproduction (i.e. effective f—ing). Within a generation or two, the West will pay the price – extinction.

  44. I blame the whole mess on the radical aspects of Feminism. When I was young and looking for a prospective spouse, I always found that they were either playing for money and prizes or that they were dead set opposed to the idea that either one of us would make the sacrifice to stay home and raise the kids… Needless to say, with women like that to work with I chose to remain single.

  45. I didn’t read the link, I learned enough from the comments:
    How does that saying go “It takes a village to raise ..an ..idiot”?
    No that’s not quite it……

  46. Me No Dhimmi said: “The cost/benefit analysis is based on the analyzer’s scale of values and by what he considers “functional”.”
    Only if you reject the idea of an objective reality altogether. I’m not talking about “happiness” here, I’m talking about basic measurements like food calories and units of protein per day, kilowatts of energy earned per hour of work, square feet of living space per adult, stuff like that. You can measure the performance of human cultures the same way you measure a baboon troop. Its not that hard.
    No one ever does it because A) North America always wins and B) Leftist policy-making always looks -really- bad.
    The most efficient and effective arrangement that brings the most goods and services to the most people and wastes the least resources is a free citizenry interacting in a free market. Free as in freedom, not free as in free beer.
    In such an environment people have as many children as they feel like supporting, which is usually two or three. Having zero children or just one can be considered a hardship for most people. The one-child policy is not popular in China. Given the choice, two to three kids is how many most people seem to want.
    Please note that I said -most-, not all. Some people are better off without children and know it. Just as some people chose not to have sexual relations at all. Few, but some.

  47. Cappy and Phantom have most of the picture here, but not all of it. There’s a very long, well established demographic trend, going back to the large cities of the ancient Egyptians and every other society for which we have demographic records. Simply stated, large families are a function of economic value for rural occupations but an economic detriment to urban ones. It is universally true that birth rates drop in urban settings.
    And this is important, because only a small fraction of Canada’s population now lives on farms. About six years ago, for the first time in human history a majority of human population was living in cities and not in rural settings. In direct relationship, the rate of global population increase is falling rapidly.
    Fact of the matter is that on the large scale of national and global populations, economics drives everything. Children are only an economic asset in farming; the opportunity cost is otherwise enormous.
    No, Stick, feminism is virtually irrelevant. Collapses in birthrate are happening in countries where such is irrelevant. The birthrate in Europe started to fall in the 19th century long before the advent of feminism of any kind.
    Zog, stop deluding yourself. The most severe case of depopulation is occurring in Japan. In about a generation, given current demographic trends, China will be in the same situation.
    MT, you are simply reinforcing the point I’m making. You have kids and to some degree you value them for the value of their labour.
    Eagle, you are indeed right. The stench of self-righteousness on this thread is thick enough to cut with a knife.

  48. “I blame the whole mess on the radical aspects of Feminism. When I was young and looking for a prospective spouse, I always found that they were either playing for money and prizes or that they were dead set opposed to the idea that either one of us would make the sacrifice to stay home and raise the kids… Needless to say, with women like that to work with I chose to remain single.”
    Stick, I can relate 100%. Luckily after a very long search I found a wonderful woman to marry. But I went through the same thing you did.

  49. Single childless adults are pariahs in today’s tax code. No breaks for them.
    I hope in the future we can stick kids in the Matrix and raise them there with parental algorithms. Barring that, perhaps alternate structures to the two-parents marriage are needed for some or many. Some cultures have groups taking care of children.

  50. Eurabia is toast. The childless have left it too feeble and spineless to stop the void from being filled by followers of some prophet. With questionable benefit (Cap’n…?) of our current high levels of immigration, we are on the same path. We should only bring in the compatible, those who will not impose their religious law. Or likely to want us to dispense with that of dearly won right to freedom of expression.
    And you are dreaming in Technicolor if you think the ones you expect to look after you physically or economically in your dotage, are going to see anything your way. No pork for you, no pension either. Ask the Danes, the Greeks, etc.

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