The Nanny State is alive & well in Canuckistan, even under a “conservative” (aka CINO) government. 🙁
56 Replies to “The Tories’ Bilingual Boondoggle”
Okay, so how do I apply for one of those Language Inspector jobs?
I want less government waste or more of a chance to partake of it.
If we had all the money that has pissed down the drain of Turdeaus Bilingualism wet dream we could pay off the national debt.We must be the laughing stock of the civilized world kissing the ass of a few radicals who don t even want to be part of this country and disparage its culture every chance they get.Quebec can get out any time they want and the sooner the better for the rest of us.
Some say this is the price of remaining united as a country. 🙁
All of this only works one way of course.
one way: you mean Quebec is de facto bilingual but the ROC is unilingual .
Is that what you mean? Because that’s the reality of the ground and it is unfair
I reject this double standard.
I would prefer if French were kept east of the Manitoba/Ontario border.
We don’t want it and we don’t need it in the west.
Quebecois NDP What country are you talking about? It certainly is not the Canada I live in! Quebec is definitly unilingual and racist. The only reason French is used outside Quebec in the general business worl is to placate Quebec nationalist and the remains of trudeau era ant-english bigots.
It certainly is a black hole we shovel money into and get nothing in return. We have never and will never be a bilingual country , although our politicians pretend we are and political correctness and fear of losing the Quebec votes does not allow room to speak otherwise. Just like they pretend our metric system works when our largest trading partner gave the whole idea the middle finger. If Quebec left confederation only Quebec would miss them and their population would probably shrink by half. The saddest people would probably be the parents across the land who sent their kids into french immersion in the hope of landing a government job for their little drones and knowing they wasted their time and money. With the billions saved by going to one language we could even teach Quebecers how to speak English. Oh,wait……..really?
Sorry for the spelling errors. Too arthritic in my hands due to working for the last 50 years!! How long if ever have you worked for a living Quebecois NDP?
French Immersion for all frenchies is my idea of a perfect Canada. Dump all the welfare whiners in the Atlantic and give them the directions to France, instead of “run Forrest run, it would be swim Frenchie swim.
Quebec is most certainly not bilingual. It is legally unilingual, and has its busy ‘language police’ constantly on the lookout for any instances of using ‘another language’ (ie English) in signs.
You may not put up a sign only in another language, and if you use another language, then French must be ‘on top’ and twice the size.
Road signs are only in French (that’s helpful for visitors, eh?).
The only people who are bilingual can be found in Montreal and Hull, two cities filled to the beams with federal government employees. The rest of Quebec is unilingual.
And remember, this focus on the francophone world is found in Quebec universities. Their low, low tuition rates that are available to Quebec students are also offered, not to any student from the other provinces (who must pay double the rate) but to foreign students from France, Belgium, Haiti ..any francophone nation.
And also remember, that the Canadian taxpayer funds Quebec at moreo than 13 billion ABOVE what Quebec pays in taxes. So, for Canada, Quebec is a huge drain on the economy.
This bilingualism is the key concept within Trudeau’s Charter. The individual ‘rights’ within that charter are irrelevant, trumped as they are by the ‘rights’ of identity groups. The Charter is all about bilingualism as a law of the land.
But Canada is not and never will be bilingual. Instead, we have set up a huge drain on the economy and have achieved nothing in return. Quebec contains to despise the ROC and considers it, as quebecois has frequently informed us, only as a ‘money bank’.
“boondoggle” !? Indeed… although I could think of a few other choice words to describe Trudeaus imposed, poisonous, tribal, social engineering scheme. The Association of Canadian studies released a study on the costs of Trudeau OLA and estimate that 1.3 trillion has been flushed down the “bilingual” toilet to date. A criminal waste of money forcing Quebec style french on an historically English speaking nation, while Quebec is a unilingual french state complete with bans and restrictions on the use of English. Fraser just can’t resist his tyrannical impulses to further the divide and spread the poison of forced french. James Moore is currently traipsing around the country throwing our money at every manufactured french language group in the country. PM Harpers Government has done a lot of good things so far with regards to the wheat board, census, court challenges program, long gun registry etc. but what are they waiting for when it comes to the colossally wasteful, poisonous, unreasonable bilingual “boondoggle”. I know the manufactured french language industry is vast and militant, and nobody screams louder and feels more entitled then the francophone tribe, but seriously, what is the Government afraid of. What could possibly be the excuse for continuing with this divisive, utter failure in governance.
I drove through Quebec on my way elsewhere a few time, and was there for Expo ’67. I found the people nice for the most part. Now apparently it is not the same. Although I envy their ability to enjoy themselves. They have such a good time with all the summer and winter festivals. Here in B.C., we are so anal that the nanny state(NDP control police), has stomped out almost all of our good times.
sean m – what you seem to misunderstand is that the Harper government cannot do anything about this ‘bilingualism’.
It’s the law of the land; it’s the basic factor within the Charter and the Charter is part of the Canadian Constitution. Harper can’t change the Constitution on his own; an amendment requires the other provinces.
Indeed, most of the Charter deals with the legalization of bilingualism. As I said, the other ‘fundamental rights’ are irrelevant, for they are trumped by Trudeau’s other focus, multiculturalism. Any and all individual rights are trumped by the will of an ‘identifiable group’ who might ‘feel’ discriminated against.
The only time that I was forced or expected to speak any other language other than english was in grade 6. This of course was my first year in the public school system where french class was mandatory. I believe this speaks volumes all of its own. Never has it been expected for Canadians to speak french other than one of a governmental nature. Divisiveness is the only fruit of this kind of policy.
My experiences in foreign countries didn’t have the expectation of knowing “their” language. Although I spent the time to learn some basic words and phrases, the locals were very vocal in their excitement to be able to brush up on their english skills.
I say let the french speaking Quebecors speak french and decide whether they want to learn english, and afford all others in Canada the same rights. Naturally business will be done on its own terms, and every ones heritage will be left up to it’s own device.
Even though my family’s native tongue is low German, the fact we do not speak it hasn’t affected our heritage. We hold our heritage in high regards, it is our sense of pride, no one else’s.
Hopefully in our lifetime Quebec will blossom into an adult like some of the other siblings. Canada has it fair share of tough parenting to perform.
Quebec needs to separate, we need a referendum.
Goodbye, and best of luck.
Knacker, exactly and ditto here.
“The saddest people would probably be the parents across the land who sent their kids into french immersion in the hope of landing a government job for their little drones and knowing they wasted their time and money.”
Thanks for that ,peterj!
I knew a teaxher,staunch NDP’er,who decided to send her kid to French Immersion. When I said that would only be helpful if the kid was going to limit herself to a government job. She replied,”SO!!!” very angrily.
After two years of FI the child was so discouraged,she just couldn’t learn French and was failing. Finally,the husband/Father put his foot down and got her into a regular school.
Her marks went from D’s and F’s at French immersion, to A’s” and B’s” in real school. She was one happy kid.
Her Mother, always acted embarrassed the kid didn’t make it in French Immersion.
Undercover Cop in airport at café: “Allo! Do you ave a glass of orange juice??”
Clerk: “Do you want da sixteen dollar Bev Oda?”
Cop: “No–I`ll ave da tree dollar bev-erage.”
PS: I love Brigitte`s sexy accent!
Reform Party anyone?
E T… I appreciate your knowledge of this subject, and I’m aware of unelected judges over-riding section 2.b of Trudeaus Charter, the section that deals with “individual rights”, in order to side with “group rights”…. Russell Township sign bylaw comes to mind. The Trudeau Charter is positively poison to the nation, and I entirely agree that it was imposed for reasons completely related to Trudeaus obsession with his OLA, along with his warped desire for manufacturing a french speaking State. My frustration lies within the concept that nothing can be done to change whatever the Trudeau era imposed, that we are aware of injustice but are impotent to do anything about it. Is the Government unable to make changes to the OLA itself ? Can the Government not depose the OLA the same way it was imposed ? Is the Government completely helpless before Trudeaus imposed Charter ? With respect for your knowledge on this subject, perhaps you could explain to me why we are seemingly stuck within this imposed Trudopian quagmire of tribal idiocy. Is the elected Government really powerless before Trudeaus Charter? There has to be a way for a majority Government to depose the imposed.
Good question Sean I’ve wondered why we are stuck with this as well. I’m sure there are people here who know the answer.
Sean – you can check out Amending the Canadian Constitution online. See Sections 38 to 49.
Remember, Trudeau’s Charter, is actually part of the Canadian Constitution.
Amendments of a national character are only possible if
1.The General Formula (the “7/50″ procedure) – s. 38. The amendment must be passed by the House of Commons, the Senate, and at least two-thirds of the provincial legislatures representing at least 50% of the population. This covers any amendment procedure not covered more specifically in ss. 41, 43, 44 or 45. The general formula must be used for any of the six situations identified in s. 42.
2.The Unanimity Procedure – s. 41. The amendment must be passed by the House of Commons, Senate, and all provincial legislatures.”
For something as basic as bilingualism, which is effectively the function of the Charter, I think article 2 would have to be applied: unanimity.
As for group rights trumping individual rights, these are outlined in Section 15-2.5
All the provinces except Quebec accepted the Charter and Constitution. Therefore, amending it to remove the burden and fallacy of bilingualism requires all those provinces to vote against it. The upheaval and cost would be incredible and no government wants to deal with this.
Each Province has the ability to use the “Not withstanding clause” but only related to provincial juristiction. Quebec has used this to enforce their language laws and Ralph Klein threatened to stop gay marriages using same but had to back off when the supreme court decided perversions are a good thing. That made acceptance a federal matter. It would take a change in the constitution to eliminate Quebec’s language laws and Harper could never do it while he has a slim majority as he would need Quebec’s votes. We are stuck with this lasting legacy from Trudeau and Quebec can rub the Enlish noses in it at their leisure. They do seem to enjoy that.
I was at the Calgary Zoo some time ago. A group of immersion students were walking through the Jurrassic section of the complex. Not only could they speak French rather well, they also knew every dinosaur by its proper name. (IE: Brontosaurus.)
I informed the teacher that I thought it was amazing that these kids were bilingual, and that they knew the proper names of the dinosaurs. One kid looked at me and said: “Sir–if you wish–you can join our class, we`ll teach you all about the dinosaurs, and French.” They were a grade three class, average age 8 yrs.
It set me thinking.
And by the way Knacker. Low German is not an official language in Canada. As a matter of fact, I doubt that its even an official language in Germany. At least not since 1996. Correct me if I`m wrong.
Plainzdrifter, “And by the way Knacker. Low German is not an official language in Canada.” It is in Hague, Saskatchewan, and in Winkler, Manitoba.
BTW, during the 1500s, Low German was the main language along the southern Baltic coast among the German states there and in Polish Royal Prussia (Danzig) until the High German language supplanted it when the Prussians began to have more influence in the government and Baltic commerce.
@ Plainzdrifter
It wouldn’t take much googling to figure out that low german was never an official language of any country. Kind of a big “point” to my comment.
Bilingualism is the most idiotic idea ever to come to Canada and I’d love to see just one provincial premier have the balls to use the notwithstanding clause to make their province unilingual English.
My way of dealing with the English speaking frogs in Ontario who insisted on speaking their language was to reply in Ukrainian. After yelling at each other for a while in languages that the other party didn’t understand, but I understood most of the frog part we’d switch to English.
English is the only language one needs as it doesn’t come with a horde of bureaucrats to ensure that it remains “pure”. The frogs need to accept that they’ve lost and that their language is of as much use as tits on a bull. Right now the division of languages in the world is between English and ideographic languages. One would be far better off to learn Chinese or Japanese than French as automatic translators will make the latter task irrelevant in the near future.
I don’t give a damn what the so-called Canadian charter or rights has to say; it’s time to kick Quebec out of this country and have a single official language.
The biggest travesty of bilingualism is that it is not a two-way street. For a francophone to be deemed to speak English, they have to be able to order a double-double in Tim Horton’s. For an anglophone, they have to be able to testify in court. I know of a francophone who resigned from the Armed Forces in disgust after he was assigned to the office of bilingualism and saw the double standard. On my test, it demanded knowledge of an accident report involving a CF-18, an amphibious landing with hovercraft and financial details of a posting assignment. Most anglophones couldn’t have answered all the questions in English since they were so detailed and specific to certain specialties.
Ken (Kulak) wrote:
“BTW, during the 1500s, Low German was the main language along the southern Baltic coast among the German states there and in Polish Royal Prussia (Danzig) until the High German language supplanted it when the Prussians began to have more influence in the government and Baltic commerce”
And in the 1500s–French was the only language spoken in Canada.
Plainzdrifter @ 12:44pm
“And in the 1500s–French was the only language spoken in Canada.”
No it wasn’t.
“And in the 1500s–French was the only language spoken in Canada.”
Opps–sorry–Algonquin, Iroquois, Cree—–etc.
No Anglais.
Plainzdrifter, you my friend have successfully missed the point. Great job! *clap clap clap
[quote]All the provinces except Quebec accepted the Charter and Constitution. Therefore, amending it to remove the burden and fallacy of bilingualism requires all those provinces to vote against it. The upheaval and cost would be incredible and no government wants to deal with this.[/quote] ET
It would seem unreasonable that Quebec, who has no charter protection by choice, has any presumed status in amending the bilingual provisions.
How can the Formula include Quebec, it would seem that only those Provinces that signed the charter would have any status…It should be easier to change because Quebec would not be included and the formula is 2/3 of those that signed.
Something does not seem right!
Isn’t the language now known as English a form of Low German? Hence, most English speakers are able to learn German more easily than French (similarities in sentence structure, syntax, etc).
Frank Q @ 10:42:
Yes!! Preston we need ya!!
BTW…I don’t see this a a ‘Quebec’ issue (they do give us enough other concerns…)
This is our Canadian government shedding conservative principles.
phillip- the formula, as I suggested, would not be 2/3 of the provinces but unanimity. That’s because it is a national not even regional issue.
As for Quebec’s not signing that is deemed legally irrelevant, as it is still ‘subject’ to the Constitution’s clauses, and I assure you, Quebec makes full use of these clauses.
These include not only the Charter, which is basically all about official bilingualism, but also other sections in the Constitution, which guarantee Quebec a minimum of 75 seats in the House, and so on.
A major problem of bilingualism, apart from the massive costs of translation, is that it has effectively removed 80% of the Canadian population from having any ‘right’ to serve in the Canadian government in any but the most junior levels. This is serious; Canadians can’t serve in key government roles.
The requirement for bilingualism has set up an ‘elite mandarin bureaucracy’, made up of and only of, a set of the population in the Montreal-Ottawa area who are readily bilingual from childhood. No ten year old from the prairies is going to be able to, as an adult, easily become bilingual; it must start in childhood and via constant exposure not just weekly classes.
This mandarin set of bureaucrats tends to be exclusive and isolate, living only in that Montreal-Ottawa bubble and detached from the rest of the country.
It’s been a generation since the Charter and Canada’s ratio of bilinguals remains the same: 20%. And located in the same area: Montreal and Ottawa. This means that our federal government is being run, bureaucratically, by a mandarin set, and is closed to most Canadians.
As an aside, just try contacting the federal government in Ottawa by phone; you’ll be dealing with a heavily accented individual who often has great difficulty understanding and speaking English.
Official Bilingualism Inspector
Another one of those parasitical, make-believe jobs that no one with a conscience could ever accept.
Imagine the shame in having to tell your kids that, next to Quebec’s lanuage police, you have the most useless job in the world.
Imagine the ‘qualities’ of anyone whom would agree to do this.
ET @ 9:35;
It goes far beyond being bilingual. The reason the first Reform MP was elected in Ottawa was the fear of Anglo fed workers losing their jobs to francophones. My sister-in-law works in a department that utilized french about 5% of the time. The first hint she had of change was when summer students had to be bilingual and were of course Quebecers. These students then refused to take direction in anything other than french.
Later her department head was transferred out and the the replacement was a Quebecer. Besides the obnoxious nature of this person all further hires in the department were Quebecers. This practise was not restricted to her department but was wide spread. Thus the Reform vote.
Since that time my relative went on to take french lessons in Quebec (at our expense) where again she experienced discrimination. Being a particularly smart person she graduated from the language school top in her class. I would point out that there were 14 in the class and only 5 graduated at a level that satisfied federal employment standards.
She has concluded that Quebecers are slowly taking over the federal govenment bureacracy as this francophony conversion continues. What impact that has on political will being converted into practice can be imagined by all.
ET – Living in Ottawa, it extends further than the federal (and provincial and municipal for that matter) government. Most higher level positions in Ottawa in any field have bilingualism as a requirement now.
I did send my daughter to immersion in kindergarden/grade 1, and she hated it. She struggled to understand and was generally miserable. She continued her education in english and she graduated cum laude with a law degree, mostly on scolarship. Most of the employment postings required bilingualism. Luckily, she did finally find a junior position. Needless to say, she was discouraged at many times.
Please note: she is NOT one on the left. As a matter of fact she often stood up for common sense when attending the University of Ottawa, and often found herself fighting a loosing battle. She confirms they are crazy. Thank goodness for wise parenting, because that was almost the only sane influence for 8 years.
Knacker “It wouldn’t take much googling to figure out that low german was never an official language of any country. Kind of a big “point” to my comment.”
For the sake of accuracy, I would suspect that Low German was the language of a multitude of countries considering Germany formerly consisted of as many as 308 distinct countries.
For the Low in Low German, read Low as in Low Countries, the area along the coast, rather than the region of a frog’s belly.
AAaahh! – Snake’s belly.
As long as 30 years ago, most of the workers at the Jasper park gates were pretty much unilingual Francophones. I guess it was on the off chance another unilingual Francophone presented themselves at the Jasper park gate but the odds of 2 unilingual Francophones being at the same place at the same time in Alberta is the same as being struck by lightning.
For information, I don’t know that they were unilingual Francophone. It’s just that I couldn’t understand them.
favill and Scar, you are right.
Apparently Low German is making a comeback of sorts in that a number of northern Germany universities have increased a number of studies in the Low German language.
The fortunes of the Hanseatic League trading organization had much to do with the rise and fall of the Low German language.
The use or non-use of French in the world has also been affected by trade patterns. In Canada, the forced use of French is by government fiat.
The problem with the French is not the language – it’s that they think in French.
I’ve been on holiday in Quebec the last two summers for a total of 4 weeks. My experience is if you get away from the tourist zones, Quebec is primarily uni-lingual. However, the average person will attempt to communicate in English when they realize I don’t speak French very well. (I don’t know if they immediately pick up on the fact that I’m a Yank.) And we get by in the end. In fact the only person I can recall being blunt if not rude was in a tourist information office in the Mont Tremblant area.
As for the airport inspections, the one at Quebec City shouldn’t take terribly long — that airport is *tiny*.
ct and anne – exactly right. What has happened with the Charter, which as I said, is primarily about the insertion of official bilingualism into our Constitution and has zilch to to with any fundamental rights, is that the federal government has been taken over, bureaucratically, by Quebecers.
And in particular, by the bilingual set born and bred, so to speak, in the Montreal-Hull-Ottawa zone. They are bilingual from childhood for unlike children anywhere else in Canada, they hear, actually hear on the street and the media, both languages from childhood. This becomes, like any tribal enclave, a self-selecting closed group.
They are the senior level in all departments; the deputy ministers, the heads of funding agencies, the directors of most departments, the military, the research funding agencies, the legislative office managers – everyone. The lower level staff can be made up of more ‘unilinguals’ – unilingual in both French OR English.
As I said, try phoning any federal office, and feeling as if you are a foreigner trying to deal with a foreign government office.
Just imagine how Quebec would survive (NOT!) if they didn’t have this massive closed Employment Service open only to Them. Great salaries, jobs for life, benefits, pensions. And, no need for capitalist initiatives or having to run an economy in Quebec! That Charter set up a massive employment sector within Quebec open only to them and closed to the rest of Canadian citizens. Nice.
That’s why the Quebec economy is focused around Montreal-Hull, for that’s where the federal civil service resides. The rest of Quebec has limited capitalist ventures. Their dairy farming is important but that’s due to yet another subsidy from the federal govt, so to speak. Quebec dairies are ‘allowed’ to produce the most milk, cream, etc in Canada, while other provinces are not allowed to produce as much. Hmm.
And, Quebec has a law that workers from, for example, Ontario, aren’t allowed to go in and work in Quebec. BUT, it’s a big economic ‘right’ for Quebec workers to cross freely into Ontario and work there.
So, my point is that a false economy has been set up in Quebec. Its educated class are ‘chosen’ to be the federal bureaucracy; others work in the head offices of various non-governmental agencies which have been encouraged to locate in Montreal. Its farmers are privileged and protected.
Its universities, with their low, low tuition unavailable to any but a francophone and not to any student from Canada, are funded by the federal government. A high proportion of research grants always, always, has to be given to Quebec. I’ve known colleagues who have deliberately rewritten their applications in French in order to receive better treatment – ie, one colleague was refused in English; he rewrote, word for word, the same issue in French and received a grant.
All I think we can do is to debate and discuss these issues, something that a decade ago, we felt was ‘not nice to talk about’. But the abuse, and I use that term with deliberation, of Canada by Quebec, has been going on for too long and with such arrogance, that it’s time for more of us to speak out.
“Just imagine how Quebec would survive (NOT!) if they didn’t have this massive closed Employment Service open only to Them. Great salaries, jobs for life, benefits, pensions. And, no need for capitalist initiatives or having to run an economy in Quebec! That Charter set up a massive employment sector within Quebec open only to them and closed to the rest of Canadian citizens. Nice.
That’s why the Quebec economy is focused around Montreal-Hull, for that’s where the federal civil service resides. The rest of Quebec has limited capitalist ventures. Their dairy farming is important but that’s due to yet another subsidy from the federal govt, so to speak. Quebec dairies are ‘allowed’ to produce the most milk, cream, etc in Canada, while other provinces are not allowed to produce as much. Hmm.
And, Quebec has a law that workers from, for example, Ontario, aren’t allowed to go in and work in Quebec. BUT, it’s a big economic ‘right’ for Quebec workers to cross freely into Ontario and work there.”
So True, so True.
I really do wish for KEBEK to piss off. LEAVE. Enough of having French rammed down my throat.
As for Govt waste of money, one wonders when Canadians will get really Pissed, and I mean deep down ready to beat someone pissed over how our monies are BLOWN away…??
Long friggin overdue in my opinion.
Crap. Absolute waste of money. Time for them to pull the pin and get the hell out. And then figure out how they’ll survive without the head offices of RBC, BMO, Air Canada and a few others, plus all the federal government jobs they’d no longer have. Not to mention the billions from “equalization”. Bring it on!
I’m sure this nonsense ends with a CPC majority.
canuck66 – exactly. Quebec refuses to acknowledge that their educated class functions within a privileged economic infrastructure – the jobs market for them is specific.
They go right into the federal government or the head offices in Montreal, all of which were enticed to locate in Montreal by tax and other breaks.
Or they go into the federally funded universities, and it’s interesting but there are 23 public universities in Quebec, and only 17 in Ontario. But Ontario has twice the population of Quebec. Hmm.
And as I’ve noted before, Quebec receives over 13 billion in federal funds above what it pays to the federal government in its taxes.
What does Canada receive in return? After all, I’m sure Quebec doesn’t want to be seen as a ‘kept society’; it insists on its self-reliance and freedom and ah, dignity.
So, what does it give to the Canadian federation in return for all those jobs-for-its-educated class in government, head offices and universities, in return for its workers able to work in Ontario while Ontarians are not allowed to work in Quebec, in return for the dairy privileges? What? Maple syrup?
Okay, so how do I apply for one of those Language Inspector jobs?
I want less government waste or more of a chance to partake of it.
If we had all the money that has pissed down the drain of Turdeaus Bilingualism wet dream we could pay off the national debt.We must be the laughing stock of the civilized world kissing the ass of a few radicals who don t even want to be part of this country and disparage its culture every chance they get.Quebec can get out any time they want and the sooner the better for the rest of us.
Some say this is the price of remaining united as a country. 🙁
All of this only works one way of course.
one way: you mean Quebec is de facto bilingual but the ROC is unilingual .
Is that what you mean? Because that’s the reality of the ground and it is unfair
I reject this double standard.
I would prefer if French were kept east of the Manitoba/Ontario border.
We don’t want it and we don’t need it in the west.
Quebecois NDP What country are you talking about? It certainly is not the Canada I live in! Quebec is definitly unilingual and racist. The only reason French is used outside Quebec in the general business worl is to placate Quebec nationalist and the remains of trudeau era ant-english bigots.
It certainly is a black hole we shovel money into and get nothing in return. We have never and will never be a bilingual country , although our politicians pretend we are and political correctness and fear of losing the Quebec votes does not allow room to speak otherwise. Just like they pretend our metric system works when our largest trading partner gave the whole idea the middle finger. If Quebec left confederation only Quebec would miss them and their population would probably shrink by half. The saddest people would probably be the parents across the land who sent their kids into french immersion in the hope of landing a government job for their little drones and knowing they wasted their time and money. With the billions saved by going to one language we could even teach Quebecers how to speak English. Oh,wait……..really?
Sorry for the spelling errors. Too arthritic in my hands due to working for the last 50 years!! How long if ever have you worked for a living Quebecois NDP?
French Immersion for all frenchies is my idea of a perfect Canada. Dump all the welfare whiners in the Atlantic and give them the directions to France, instead of “run Forrest run, it would be swim Frenchie swim.
Quebec is most certainly not bilingual. It is legally unilingual, and has its busy ‘language police’ constantly on the lookout for any instances of using ‘another language’ (ie English) in signs.
You may not put up a sign only in another language, and if you use another language, then French must be ‘on top’ and twice the size.
Road signs are only in French (that’s helpful for visitors, eh?).
The only people who are bilingual can be found in Montreal and Hull, two cities filled to the beams with federal government employees. The rest of Quebec is unilingual.
And remember, this focus on the francophone world is found in Quebec universities. Their low, low tuition rates that are available to Quebec students are also offered, not to any student from the other provinces (who must pay double the rate) but to foreign students from France, Belgium, Haiti ..any francophone nation.
And also remember, that the Canadian taxpayer funds Quebec at moreo than 13 billion ABOVE what Quebec pays in taxes. So, for Canada, Quebec is a huge drain on the economy.
This bilingualism is the key concept within Trudeau’s Charter. The individual ‘rights’ within that charter are irrelevant, trumped as they are by the ‘rights’ of identity groups. The Charter is all about bilingualism as a law of the land.
But Canada is not and never will be bilingual. Instead, we have set up a huge drain on the economy and have achieved nothing in return. Quebec contains to despise the ROC and considers it, as quebecois has frequently informed us, only as a ‘money bank’.
“boondoggle” !? Indeed… although I could think of a few other choice words to describe Trudeaus imposed, poisonous, tribal, social engineering scheme. The Association of Canadian studies released a study on the costs of Trudeau OLA and estimate that 1.3 trillion has been flushed down the “bilingual” toilet to date. A criminal waste of money forcing Quebec style french on an historically English speaking nation, while Quebec is a unilingual french state complete with bans and restrictions on the use of English. Fraser just can’t resist his tyrannical impulses to further the divide and spread the poison of forced french. James Moore is currently traipsing around the country throwing our money at every manufactured french language group in the country. PM Harpers Government has done a lot of good things so far with regards to the wheat board, census, court challenges program, long gun registry etc. but what are they waiting for when it comes to the colossally wasteful, poisonous, unreasonable bilingual “boondoggle”. I know the manufactured french language industry is vast and militant, and nobody screams louder and feels more entitled then the francophone tribe, but seriously, what is the Government afraid of. What could possibly be the excuse for continuing with this divisive, utter failure in governance.
I drove through Quebec on my way elsewhere a few time, and was there for Expo ’67. I found the people nice for the most part. Now apparently it is not the same. Although I envy their ability to enjoy themselves. They have such a good time with all the summer and winter festivals. Here in B.C., we are so anal that the nanny state(NDP control police), has stomped out almost all of our good times.
sean m – what you seem to misunderstand is that the Harper government cannot do anything about this ‘bilingualism’.
It’s the law of the land; it’s the basic factor within the Charter and the Charter is part of the Canadian Constitution. Harper can’t change the Constitution on his own; an amendment requires the other provinces.
Indeed, most of the Charter deals with the legalization of bilingualism. As I said, the other ‘fundamental rights’ are irrelevant, for they are trumped by Trudeau’s other focus, multiculturalism. Any and all individual rights are trumped by the will of an ‘identifiable group’ who might ‘feel’ discriminated against.
The only time that I was forced or expected to speak any other language other than english was in grade 6. This of course was my first year in the public school system where french class was mandatory. I believe this speaks volumes all of its own. Never has it been expected for Canadians to speak french other than one of a governmental nature. Divisiveness is the only fruit of this kind of policy.
My experiences in foreign countries didn’t have the expectation of knowing “their” language. Although I spent the time to learn some basic words and phrases, the locals were very vocal in their excitement to be able to brush up on their english skills.
I say let the french speaking Quebecors speak french and decide whether they want to learn english, and afford all others in Canada the same rights. Naturally business will be done on its own terms, and every ones heritage will be left up to it’s own device.
Even though my family’s native tongue is low German, the fact we do not speak it hasn’t affected our heritage. We hold our heritage in high regards, it is our sense of pride, no one else’s.
Hopefully in our lifetime Quebec will blossom into an adult like some of the other siblings. Canada has it fair share of tough parenting to perform.
Quebec needs to separate, we need a referendum.
Goodbye, and best of luck.
Knacker, exactly and ditto here.
“The saddest people would probably be the parents across the land who sent their kids into french immersion in the hope of landing a government job for their little drones and knowing they wasted their time and money.”
Thanks for that ,peterj!
I knew a teaxher,staunch NDP’er,who decided to send her kid to French Immersion. When I said that would only be helpful if the kid was going to limit herself to a government job. She replied,”SO!!!” very angrily.
After two years of FI the child was so discouraged,she just couldn’t learn French and was failing. Finally,the husband/Father put his foot down and got her into a regular school.
Her marks went from D’s and F’s at French immersion, to A’s” and B’s” in real school. She was one happy kid.
Her Mother, always acted embarrassed the kid didn’t make it in French Immersion.
Undercover Cop in airport at café: “Allo! Do you ave a glass of orange juice??”
Clerk: “Do you want da sixteen dollar Bev Oda?”
Cop: “No–I`ll ave da tree dollar bev-erage.”
PS: I love Brigitte`s sexy accent!
Reform Party anyone?
E T… I appreciate your knowledge of this subject, and I’m aware of unelected judges over-riding section 2.b of Trudeaus Charter, the section that deals with “individual rights”, in order to side with “group rights”…. Russell Township sign bylaw comes to mind. The Trudeau Charter is positively poison to the nation, and I entirely agree that it was imposed for reasons completely related to Trudeaus obsession with his OLA, along with his warped desire for manufacturing a french speaking State. My frustration lies within the concept that nothing can be done to change whatever the Trudeau era imposed, that we are aware of injustice but are impotent to do anything about it. Is the Government unable to make changes to the OLA itself ? Can the Government not depose the OLA the same way it was imposed ? Is the Government completely helpless before Trudeaus imposed Charter ? With respect for your knowledge on this subject, perhaps you could explain to me why we are seemingly stuck within this imposed Trudopian quagmire of tribal idiocy. Is the elected Government really powerless before Trudeaus Charter? There has to be a way for a majority Government to depose the imposed.
Good question Sean I’ve wondered why we are stuck with this as well. I’m sure there are people here who know the answer.
Sean – you can check out Amending the Canadian Constitution online. See Sections 38 to 49.
Remember, Trudeau’s Charter, is actually part of the Canadian Constitution.
Amendments of a national character are only possible if
1.The General Formula (the “7/50″ procedure) – s. 38. The amendment must be passed by the House of Commons, the Senate, and at least two-thirds of the provincial legislatures representing at least 50% of the population. This covers any amendment procedure not covered more specifically in ss. 41, 43, 44 or 45. The general formula must be used for any of the six situations identified in s. 42.
2.The Unanimity Procedure – s. 41. The amendment must be passed by the House of Commons, Senate, and all provincial legislatures.”
For something as basic as bilingualism, which is effectively the function of the Charter, I think article 2 would have to be applied: unanimity.
As for group rights trumping individual rights, these are outlined in Section 15-2.5
All the provinces except Quebec accepted the Charter and Constitution. Therefore, amending it to remove the burden and fallacy of bilingualism requires all those provinces to vote against it. The upheaval and cost would be incredible and no government wants to deal with this.
Each Province has the ability to use the “Not withstanding clause” but only related to provincial juristiction. Quebec has used this to enforce their language laws and Ralph Klein threatened to stop gay marriages using same but had to back off when the supreme court decided perversions are a good thing. That made acceptance a federal matter. It would take a change in the constitution to eliminate Quebec’s language laws and Harper could never do it while he has a slim majority as he would need Quebec’s votes. We are stuck with this lasting legacy from Trudeau and Quebec can rub the Enlish noses in it at their leisure. They do seem to enjoy that.
I was at the Calgary Zoo some time ago. A group of immersion students were walking through the Jurrassic section of the complex. Not only could they speak French rather well, they also knew every dinosaur by its proper name. (IE: Brontosaurus.)
I informed the teacher that I thought it was amazing that these kids were bilingual, and that they knew the proper names of the dinosaurs. One kid looked at me and said: “Sir–if you wish–you can join our class, we`ll teach you all about the dinosaurs, and French.” They were a grade three class, average age 8 yrs.
It set me thinking.
And by the way Knacker. Low German is not an official language in Canada. As a matter of fact, I doubt that its even an official language in Germany. At least not since 1996. Correct me if I`m wrong.
Plainzdrifter, “And by the way Knacker. Low German is not an official language in Canada.” It is in Hague, Saskatchewan, and in Winkler, Manitoba.
BTW, during the 1500s, Low German was the main language along the southern Baltic coast among the German states there and in Polish Royal Prussia (Danzig) until the High German language supplanted it when the Prussians began to have more influence in the government and Baltic commerce.
@ Plainzdrifter
It wouldn’t take much googling to figure out that low german was never an official language of any country. Kind of a big “point” to my comment.
Bilingualism is the most idiotic idea ever to come to Canada and I’d love to see just one provincial premier have the balls to use the notwithstanding clause to make their province unilingual English.
My way of dealing with the English speaking frogs in Ontario who insisted on speaking their language was to reply in Ukrainian. After yelling at each other for a while in languages that the other party didn’t understand, but I understood most of the frog part we’d switch to English.
English is the only language one needs as it doesn’t come with a horde of bureaucrats to ensure that it remains “pure”. The frogs need to accept that they’ve lost and that their language is of as much use as tits on a bull. Right now the division of languages in the world is between English and ideographic languages. One would be far better off to learn Chinese or Japanese than French as automatic translators will make the latter task irrelevant in the near future.
I don’t give a damn what the so-called Canadian charter or rights has to say; it’s time to kick Quebec out of this country and have a single official language.
The biggest travesty of bilingualism is that it is not a two-way street. For a francophone to be deemed to speak English, they have to be able to order a double-double in Tim Horton’s. For an anglophone, they have to be able to testify in court. I know of a francophone who resigned from the Armed Forces in disgust after he was assigned to the office of bilingualism and saw the double standard. On my test, it demanded knowledge of an accident report involving a CF-18, an amphibious landing with hovercraft and financial details of a posting assignment. Most anglophones couldn’t have answered all the questions in English since they were so detailed and specific to certain specialties.
Ken (Kulak) wrote:
“BTW, during the 1500s, Low German was the main language along the southern Baltic coast among the German states there and in Polish Royal Prussia (Danzig) until the High German language supplanted it when the Prussians began to have more influence in the government and Baltic commerce”
And in the 1500s–French was the only language spoken in Canada.
Plainzdrifter @ 12:44pm
“And in the 1500s–French was the only language spoken in Canada.”
No it wasn’t.
“And in the 1500s–French was the only language spoken in Canada.”
Opps–sorry–Algonquin, Iroquois, Cree—–etc.
No Anglais.
Plainzdrifter, you my friend have successfully missed the point. Great job! *clap clap clap
[quote]All the provinces except Quebec accepted the Charter and Constitution. Therefore, amending it to remove the burden and fallacy of bilingualism requires all those provinces to vote against it. The upheaval and cost would be incredible and no government wants to deal with this.[/quote] ET
It would seem unreasonable that Quebec, who has no charter protection by choice, has any presumed status in amending the bilingual provisions.
How can the Formula include Quebec, it would seem that only those Provinces that signed the charter would have any status…It should be easier to change because Quebec would not be included and the formula is 2/3 of those that signed.
Something does not seem right!
Isn’t the language now known as English a form of Low German? Hence, most English speakers are able to learn German more easily than French (similarities in sentence structure, syntax, etc).
Frank Q @ 10:42:
Yes!! Preston we need ya!!
BTW…I don’t see this a a ‘Quebec’ issue (they do give us enough other concerns…)
This is our Canadian government shedding conservative principles.
phillip- the formula, as I suggested, would not be 2/3 of the provinces but unanimity. That’s because it is a national not even regional issue.
As for Quebec’s not signing that is deemed legally irrelevant, as it is still ‘subject’ to the Constitution’s clauses, and I assure you, Quebec makes full use of these clauses.
These include not only the Charter, which is basically all about official bilingualism, but also other sections in the Constitution, which guarantee Quebec a minimum of 75 seats in the House, and so on.
A major problem of bilingualism, apart from the massive costs of translation, is that it has effectively removed 80% of the Canadian population from having any ‘right’ to serve in the Canadian government in any but the most junior levels. This is serious; Canadians can’t serve in key government roles.
The requirement for bilingualism has set up an ‘elite mandarin bureaucracy’, made up of and only of, a set of the population in the Montreal-Ottawa area who are readily bilingual from childhood. No ten year old from the prairies is going to be able to, as an adult, easily become bilingual; it must start in childhood and via constant exposure not just weekly classes.
This mandarin set of bureaucrats tends to be exclusive and isolate, living only in that Montreal-Ottawa bubble and detached from the rest of the country.
It’s been a generation since the Charter and Canada’s ratio of bilinguals remains the same: 20%. And located in the same area: Montreal and Ottawa. This means that our federal government is being run, bureaucratically, by a mandarin set, and is closed to most Canadians.
As an aside, just try contacting the federal government in Ottawa by phone; you’ll be dealing with a heavily accented individual who often has great difficulty understanding and speaking English.
Official Bilingualism Inspector
Another one of those parasitical, make-believe jobs that no one with a conscience could ever accept.
Imagine the shame in having to tell your kids that, next to Quebec’s lanuage police, you have the most useless job in the world.
Imagine the ‘qualities’ of anyone whom would agree to do this.
ET @ 9:35;
It goes far beyond being bilingual. The reason the first Reform MP was elected in Ottawa was the fear of Anglo fed workers losing their jobs to francophones. My sister-in-law works in a department that utilized french about 5% of the time. The first hint she had of change was when summer students had to be bilingual and were of course Quebecers. These students then refused to take direction in anything other than french.
Later her department head was transferred out and the the replacement was a Quebecer. Besides the obnoxious nature of this person all further hires in the department were Quebecers. This practise was not restricted to her department but was wide spread. Thus the Reform vote.
Since that time my relative went on to take french lessons in Quebec (at our expense) where again she experienced discrimination. Being a particularly smart person she graduated from the language school top in her class. I would point out that there were 14 in the class and only 5 graduated at a level that satisfied federal employment standards.
She has concluded that Quebecers are slowly taking over the federal govenment bureacracy as this francophony conversion continues. What impact that has on political will being converted into practice can be imagined by all.
ET – Living in Ottawa, it extends further than the federal (and provincial and municipal for that matter) government. Most higher level positions in Ottawa in any field have bilingualism as a requirement now.
I did send my daughter to immersion in kindergarden/grade 1, and she hated it. She struggled to understand and was generally miserable. She continued her education in english and she graduated cum laude with a law degree, mostly on scolarship. Most of the employment postings required bilingualism. Luckily, she did finally find a junior position. Needless to say, she was discouraged at many times.
Please note: she is NOT one on the left. As a matter of fact she often stood up for common sense when attending the University of Ottawa, and often found herself fighting a loosing battle. She confirms they are crazy. Thank goodness for wise parenting, because that was almost the only sane influence for 8 years.
Knacker “It wouldn’t take much googling to figure out that low german was never an official language of any country. Kind of a big “point” to my comment.”
For the sake of accuracy, I would suspect that Low German was the language of a multitude of countries considering Germany formerly consisted of as many as 308 distinct countries.
For the Low in Low German, read Low as in Low Countries, the area along the coast, rather than the region of a frog’s belly.
AAaahh! – Snake’s belly.
As long as 30 years ago, most of the workers at the Jasper park gates were pretty much unilingual Francophones. I guess it was on the off chance another unilingual Francophone presented themselves at the Jasper park gate but the odds of 2 unilingual Francophones being at the same place at the same time in Alberta is the same as being struck by lightning.
For information, I don’t know that they were unilingual Francophone. It’s just that I couldn’t understand them.
favill and Scar, you are right.
Apparently Low German is making a comeback of sorts in that a number of northern Germany universities have increased a number of studies in the Low German language.
The fortunes of the Hanseatic League trading organization had much to do with the rise and fall of the Low German language.
The use or non-use of French in the world has also been affected by trade patterns. In Canada, the forced use of French is by government fiat.
The problem with the French is not the language – it’s that they think in French.
I’ve been on holiday in Quebec the last two summers for a total of 4 weeks. My experience is if you get away from the tourist zones, Quebec is primarily uni-lingual. However, the average person will attempt to communicate in English when they realize I don’t speak French very well. (I don’t know if they immediately pick up on the fact that I’m a Yank.) And we get by in the end. In fact the only person I can recall being blunt if not rude was in a tourist information office in the Mont Tremblant area.
As for the airport inspections, the one at Quebec City shouldn’t take terribly long — that airport is *tiny*.
ct and anne – exactly right. What has happened with the Charter, which as I said, is primarily about the insertion of official bilingualism into our Constitution and has zilch to to with any fundamental rights, is that the federal government has been taken over, bureaucratically, by Quebecers.
And in particular, by the bilingual set born and bred, so to speak, in the Montreal-Hull-Ottawa zone. They are bilingual from childhood for unlike children anywhere else in Canada, they hear, actually hear on the street and the media, both languages from childhood. This becomes, like any tribal enclave, a self-selecting closed group.
They are the senior level in all departments; the deputy ministers, the heads of funding agencies, the directors of most departments, the military, the research funding agencies, the legislative office managers – everyone. The lower level staff can be made up of more ‘unilinguals’ – unilingual in both French OR English.
As I said, try phoning any federal office, and feeling as if you are a foreigner trying to deal with a foreign government office.
Just imagine how Quebec would survive (NOT!) if they didn’t have this massive closed Employment Service open only to Them. Great salaries, jobs for life, benefits, pensions. And, no need for capitalist initiatives or having to run an economy in Quebec! That Charter set up a massive employment sector within Quebec open only to them and closed to the rest of Canadian citizens. Nice.
That’s why the Quebec economy is focused around Montreal-Hull, for that’s where the federal civil service resides. The rest of Quebec has limited capitalist ventures. Their dairy farming is important but that’s due to yet another subsidy from the federal govt, so to speak. Quebec dairies are ‘allowed’ to produce the most milk, cream, etc in Canada, while other provinces are not allowed to produce as much. Hmm.
And, Quebec has a law that workers from, for example, Ontario, aren’t allowed to go in and work in Quebec. BUT, it’s a big economic ‘right’ for Quebec workers to cross freely into Ontario and work there.
So, my point is that a false economy has been set up in Quebec. Its educated class are ‘chosen’ to be the federal bureaucracy; others work in the head offices of various non-governmental agencies which have been encouraged to locate in Montreal. Its farmers are privileged and protected.
Its universities, with their low, low tuition unavailable to any but a francophone and not to any student from Canada, are funded by the federal government. A high proportion of research grants always, always, has to be given to Quebec. I’ve known colleagues who have deliberately rewritten their applications in French in order to receive better treatment – ie, one colleague was refused in English; he rewrote, word for word, the same issue in French and received a grant.
All I think we can do is to debate and discuss these issues, something that a decade ago, we felt was ‘not nice to talk about’. But the abuse, and I use that term with deliberation, of Canada by Quebec, has been going on for too long and with such arrogance, that it’s time for more of us to speak out.
“Just imagine how Quebec would survive (NOT!) if they didn’t have this massive closed Employment Service open only to Them. Great salaries, jobs for life, benefits, pensions. And, no need for capitalist initiatives or having to run an economy in Quebec! That Charter set up a massive employment sector within Quebec open only to them and closed to the rest of Canadian citizens. Nice.
That’s why the Quebec economy is focused around Montreal-Hull, for that’s where the federal civil service resides. The rest of Quebec has limited capitalist ventures. Their dairy farming is important but that’s due to yet another subsidy from the federal govt, so to speak. Quebec dairies are ‘allowed’ to produce the most milk, cream, etc in Canada, while other provinces are not allowed to produce as much. Hmm.
And, Quebec has a law that workers from, for example, Ontario, aren’t allowed to go in and work in Quebec. BUT, it’s a big economic ‘right’ for Quebec workers to cross freely into Ontario and work there.”
So True, so True.
I really do wish for KEBEK to piss off. LEAVE. Enough of having French rammed down my throat.
As for Govt waste of money, one wonders when Canadians will get really Pissed, and I mean deep down ready to beat someone pissed over how our monies are BLOWN away…??
Long friggin overdue in my opinion.
Crap. Absolute waste of money. Time for them to pull the pin and get the hell out. And then figure out how they’ll survive without the head offices of RBC, BMO, Air Canada and a few others, plus all the federal government jobs they’d no longer have. Not to mention the billions from “equalization”. Bring it on!
I’m sure this nonsense ends with a CPC majority.
canuck66 – exactly. Quebec refuses to acknowledge that their educated class functions within a privileged economic infrastructure – the jobs market for them is specific.
They go right into the federal government or the head offices in Montreal, all of which were enticed to locate in Montreal by tax and other breaks.
Or they go into the federally funded universities, and it’s interesting but there are 23 public universities in Quebec, and only 17 in Ontario. But Ontario has twice the population of Quebec. Hmm.
And as I’ve noted before, Quebec receives over 13 billion in federal funds above what it pays to the federal government in its taxes.
What does Canada receive in return? After all, I’m sure Quebec doesn’t want to be seen as a ‘kept society’; it insists on its self-reliance and freedom and ah, dignity.
So, what does it give to the Canadian federation in return for all those jobs-for-its-educated class in government, head offices and universities, in return for its workers able to work in Ontario while Ontarians are not allowed to work in Quebec, in return for the dairy privileges? What? Maple syrup?