Continued….
Don’t ever let them take your guns. Ever.
138 Replies to “Tony Blair’s Britain”
Just think of this little episode as a dress rehearsal by the Yobs for the 2012 Summer Games
More from the fabulous Melanie Phillips:
9 August 2011
[Begin quote.] The chickens come frighteningly home to roost
Glad to see others also realising that organised agitation as well as opportunistic anarchy has been fuelling the British riots, which have now spread from London to other cities.
The most frightening aspect of these events is clearly the fact that the Metropolitan Police has been so conspicuously unable to get on top of the criminality and restore order. Indeed, a significant fact behind the rioting, looting, torching of buildings and unprovoked attacks on passers-by has been the perceived weakness of the police and that the thugs thus realise that nothing can stop them smashing up whatever or whomever they choose and stealing whatever they want.
If these disorders continue to escalate, the government will have no option but to call the army onto the streets. . . .
I wrote in yesterday’s Daily Mail that I was disturbed to read that the Home Office was thwarting the Prime Minister’s wish to hire the iconic American ex-police chief Bill Bratton to run the Met. At Conservative Home, Tim Montgomerie agrees. . . .
I have written for more than two decades on the various elements that have contributed to this collapse of order: family breakdown and mass fatherlessness; the toleration and even encouragement of grossly inadequate parenting; educational collapse which damages most those at the bottom of the social heap; welfare dependency; political correctness and the vicious injustices and moral inversion of victim culture; the grossly irresponsible toleration of soft drug-taking; the shuddering distaste at the notion of punishment and the consequent collapse of authority in the entire criminal justice system; the implosion of the policing ethic and the police retreat from the streets; the increasing organisation and boldness of anarchist and left-wing subversive activity; and the growth of irrationality, narcissistic self-centredness and mob rule and the near-certainty of a fundamental breakdown of morality and order.
To every one of these arguments that I have made over the years, the left has responded with jeers and smears. Now, as terrified citizens see their homes and businesses torched, looters queue up in order more efficiently to steal from shattered shops and passing motor-cyclists are dragged off their machines and beaten up and robbed –all with near-total impunity — we can see all these chickens coming so frighteningly home to roost. [End quote.]
Go here for the rest and embedded links: http://melaniephillips.com/the-chickens-come-frighteningly-home-to-roost
In Canada, a women’s group—reviled and ridiculed for over three decades by all the elites, and those copy cats who aren’t!—has been raising the same flag as Melanie Phillips: educating, attending the UN women’s conferences, as one of the few conservative NGOs, and intervening in Supreme Court cases, among many other things, to try to slow our descent into anarchy. That group would be REAL Women. With the indomitable Gwen Landolt at the helm, this prophetic group has put their money and talents where their mouth is (on their own dime) to defend marriage and the family (our kids), while the anti-men, anti-marriage, anti-children feminists have been given all the goodies and have been allowed to have (on the taxpayer’s dime) an astonishingly destructive influence in nearly all our institutions.
REAL Women opposed the Charter before it was enacted: they saw that it would empower subversive behaviours and disallow society’s ability to inhibit them—all those rights to the “victims”, ya know—so they can victimize the rest of us. And REAL Women’s been laughed at and treated like Sarah Palin for decades.“And [Jesus] said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.” (Luke 4:24)
I know I say it all the time, but maybe some who think it’s over the top, will now realize what I mean when I write, “Kyrie eleison”: “Lord, have mercy.” We “have erred and strayed like lost sheep” (Anglican Book of Common Prayer), ravenous wolves are bearing down on us, and the shepherds have run away.
Kyrie eleison.
If the cops can’t protect the citizenry, then, as Kate and the inestimable Melanie Phillips say, it’s time to send in the army who can.
As for the script by Willi Münzenberg of the Frankfurt School of Subversion (Shawn @ 12:22 AM), he should be up for a posthumous Academy Award.
Verily, lookout, Kyrie eleison — and hats off, always, to REAL Women.
David Cooke said waaaay back at the beginning: “The trouble is, if you have guns, very soon the street thugs will have guns too. The same way they got the mobile phones.”
Rather that just roll my eyes Mr. Cooke I’m going to ‘splain something to you. These riots we are looking at the last three days are the -inevitable and inescapable- end result of the policy you are suggesting.
Government, in principle and in fact, simply does not have the power to keep weapons away from street thugs. Not guns, not knives, sticks or table legs.
In Britain there have been countless examples of completely harmless citizens put through the “justice” grinder for carrying a pocket knife, for owning a gun, one memorable one was a guy busted for having a table leg wrapped up in a garbage bag. Still guns out on the streets, still rioters able to burn down whole buildings.
But here’s the kicker Mr. Cooke. The -real- corrosive effect is not that criminals can still get guns. That is actually of very small consequence. A pistol is not tremendously more dangerous than a knife, it just has more hype.
No, the real corrosion is forbidding the great mass of law abiding citizens from taking part in the defense of their own property, even their own lives. In Britain and in Canada, as lots of people mentioned above if you use a weapon to defend yourself or your property from a crime, the state will crush you, financially and physically. Reference Caledonia Ontario for sufficient evidence of that.
Inevitable result number one, kids form gangs for protection from the cops and from each other. Inevitable result number two, people who live where the gang is let them do whatever the hell they want because the cops are a bigger threat to them personally than petty crime and nuisance.
Inevitable result number three, gangs eventually realize that A) they can do whatever they want and B) the cops can’t stop them.
Then they riot. Then the Army comes and starts in shooting them wholesale. Which will stop the riot for sure, but will corrode society even more, because now the people are still helpless against the gangs and cops, but now both the gangs and the cops have blood to avenge.
End result? Civil war, or Soviet style tyranny, or one then the other.
Or we could let shop keepers face down looters one at a time with a Winchester pump full of stingballs and rock salt.
That would seem like a no-brainer, but Liberals consistently choose wrong. Something about armed shop keepers being a bigger threat than armed rioters duking it out with mechanized infantry in the city streets.
Here endeth the lesson. Choose.
Not only that, the british police are demoralized and ebervated by stupid bureaucratic regulations.
Read Inpector Gadget’s blog for the low down.
If they knew who he was, they’d fire him.
#==============
Riot1
Old days:
Riot act is read. Troups / heavily armoured police who are high morale and looking forward to being let off the leash move in and beat the snot out of everyone they catch. up to & including shooting them if they show signs of organization. Survivors are arrested, some are jailed.
Riot quickly ends. Usual whiners complain about the “innocent” getting hurt. Most citizens heave a sigh of relief.
New Riots:
People “try to understand” the rioters, the police must use ( relatively speaking) kid gloves and will get hammered/fired/suspended if, “gott im himmel”, some arse seen throwing a brick at unarmoured police ends up in hospital – later evidence is that he was beat up by other rioters – but not for throwing bricks.
Result: days of rioting , huge property damage, theft and mayhem.
Phantom, exactly. The response of the British government has been woefully slow. Their comment this morning was “6000 police, last night, 16,000 police tonight”. The correct statement should have happened 24 hours ago and should have been: “British army in the street tonight, Curfew tonight, circumscribed martial law, tonight. Looters, arsonists and those resisting arrest without lawful purpose will be shot on sight”.
Melanie Phillips is a twit. Ignore her blather, and read what Phantom wrote. He’s got it just about right – the only part he doesn’t seem to get is that guns are a security-blanket for conservatives the same way that “gun-control” is a security blanket for liberals. The easy availability of weapons doesn’t stop riots – you only need look at the US to realize this. But it sure does feel nice to grip one when the s**t hits the fan.
Rioting and anarchy are “chic” at the moment.
Alex – since LA and the advent of concealed carry – when was the last time the US had riots on the scale of England? Everyone who’s ever had to actually defend something has learned that you must meet force with force, and convince the other, that you will not lose. Physically or psychologically, there is no other way. Every law enforcment officer practices it every day.
“guns are a security-blanket for conservatives the same way that “gun-control” is a security blanket for liberals”
And another point Alex, you don’t get: Gun control is a phantom measure (apologies to real Phantom), without fact or substance. Guns in hand are real. Consequences of their use are real and immediate. They are not a debate, not a philosophical argument. A security blanket with real coverage.
“Alex – since LA and the advent of concealed carry – when was the last time the US had riots on the scale of England?”
Since LA, when is the last time that the cops ALLOWED riots to reach the scale of England? You may have noticed a certain philosophical differences between the two nations, as far as law enforcement is concerned. If you’re honestly suggesting that concealed carry laws are what’s prevented major rioting, you’re delusional.
“Everyone who’s ever had to actually defend something has learned that you must meet force with force, and convince the other, that you will not lose.”
Naw. You just have to shoot the bastard. Force projection is a method for preventing violence, not facing it.
The always idiotic quebecois NDPiste says
“send in army, shoot all looters?
========
like in Syria?”
The comment shows just how brain dead the left really is. To try to compare lawlessness of a small minority of thugs living in a legitimate democracy to the power of a dictator is truly laughable. But that is what passes for leftist “logic” these days. Must be the brain damage caused by too much “experimentation” when they were young and skipping school.
The vast majority of the citizens in the UK demand adherence to the laws. And the State is duty bound to provide it. Leftists (in particular) probably don’t remember (or more likely were never taught) that state policing was brought into existence with the express promise if the citizens conceded the power of policing to the state that the state would provide that policing….with the express condition, however, that if the state did NOT provide that policing, the citizens were free to take the matter of policing back into their own hands. So it is time for the police (and military, if necessary) to restore order. Fast and hard.
From The Guardian:
“1.36pm: Jasmine Coleman has been talking to people who live either along or near Kingland High Street in Dalston, where Turkish and Kurdish shopkeepers were out in force last night.
Many are grateful to the workers around here and thank them for stopping the spread of violence from nearby Mare Street and Dalston Junction.
Debbie Mumdy, 41, who lives in Shacklewell Lane where a bus was set alight last night, said:
Most of the residents are really relieved that the Turkish community has been protecting the area. I think it was the same situation in Stoke Newington. It’s thanks to these guys that Kingsland High Street wasn’t attacked.”
And Nick Smith, chairman of a charity fundraising business based near Dalston Junction, said:
It’s brilliant. These guys are obviously going to keep the trouble down. I don’t think this particular area is going to be attacked as a result.”
But a 23-year-old council worker, who had just been evacuated from Hackney town hall due to fears of further rioting, said he was concerned this sort of defence would increase tensions between communities:
It is just a response from people who feel this is completely lawless and I completely understand why people are coming out to defend their businesses – but I agree with the idea that it is just going to make matters worse. I would hate to see this turn into a generational or racial battle.”
Further proof that Britain has been a third-world country for a long, long time.
@ Alex, I won’t bore you with my initmate experience with a use of a firearm to save a life that did not involve anyone getting shot.
But bear with me if you will, one of the interesting talks in the aftermath of Katrina at a nonpolitical non-gun conference was this gay couple who had stayed in their home for some reason. Anyhow they had an old forgotten shotgun that they had pulled out of storage which they use to fend off looting gangs (without killing anyone, it was the threat of armed resistance). DUring that time their home became a bastion of support for other people who had remained due to their ability to defend themselves. One of the most interesting things mentioned was that they became very scared of the government because they lived in fear that the state would confiscate their firearms – a real fear in that area. Really interesting experience.
Now I am not suggesting every shopkeeper open up with buckshot on looters, i think a lot of innocent people trapped in the riot would have been killed. However the use of nonlethal force would be acceptable such as salt-shot. However I do wonder that if we lived in a society where the idea that a shopowner carrying a shotgun in the window of his store was accepted, as was the use of force to defend property, that looting would probably have been a lot less common.
During the race riots many blacks who were not or did not want to be involved in the troubles used firearms to protect themselves against rioters and gangs.
Anyhow Alex, do I think guns are the great panacea? No, but I think it gives a person a chance if they happen to be unlucky. Best is to get out of the situation but that isn’t so easy all the time.
“Obama is voted in due to racism. Immigration is “fubar”d due to racism. Political correctness is racism. A race of any origin given special treatment is racist.
Britian is laying in the bed they created. America has “change”, because a “white” guy would never be voted in for such progressive policies. California is in disrepair due to racist “pro-illegal” immigration.”
Posted by: Knacker at August 9, 2011 2:25 AM
Excellent point Knacker.
I’d add, due to racism, Canada has the 15 billion dollars a year reserve system and our 2% Indian population are a mess – totally over represented in our welfare system, rehab, crime stats. and jails nation-wide.
One Law For All.
England and socialism growing old together, the wealth redistribution crowd doing what they do best stealing other people’s property and ruining small businesses. Destroy vast segments of London financially, yea that’ll help them get jobs. The socialist’s loots can’t get up and go to work during the day but they can riot all night long.
DSV and lookout’s comments are right, as well as my own thoughts and anyone else who has said “The chickens of the social engineering policies of the last half century coming home to roost.
batb, well said at 8:59 and maybe also a posthumous Nobel Peace Prize. This would fit in with some of the other misfits and frauds that have received the prize lately.
Alex said “Naw. You just have to shoot the bastard. Force projection is a method for preventing violence, not facing it.” It is not often I agree with anything Alex has to say, but this is one of the times.
I still maintain the the picture of the double-decker bus burning is Britain’s funeral pyre and the best comment so far was “Is the Luftwaffe back in business?”.
Hmmm, hopefully the army, when it is called in, is up for it. Otherwise????
And the winner of the WTH quote of the day goes to,
“Last night was the worst the MPS (Metropolitan Police Service) has seen in current memory for unacceptable levels of widespread looting, fires and disorder,” a police statement said on Tuesday.”
This would presume there is an acceptable level of widespread looting, fires and disorder then?
” However I do wonder that if we lived in a society where the idea that a shopowner carrying a shotgun in the window of his store was accepted, as was the use of force to defend property, that looting would probably have been a lot less common.”
That’s possible, but unlikely. For one thing, most of the rioting is happening at night, with closed stores being targeted. For another, a shop-owner with a shotgun is not much of a deterent when the looters have their own guns, plus molotov coctails to burn any place they can’t loot.
More importantly, though, you’re going to have a tough time finding shop-owners and employees who will WANT to have a firearm. This isn’t the 1950’s any more, where your grocer was probably a guy who stormed the beaches of Normandy. You really think the Barista at Star Bucks is going to pick up a shotgun and defend his Frappucino machine? Think the $15-an-hour manager at Footlocker will try to hold off a rampaging horde? I just can’t see the minimum-wage loser working in the Sporting Goods department of S-Mart volunteering to exchange bullets with the local gang. These people would be more likely to join in with the looters than to pick up a gun and try to hold them off. Giving a gun to a sheep doesn’t turn it into a wolf. Looser gun laws would only help people who are already willing to stand up for themselves, such as the Turkish community which stood up to the looters in London. Unfortunately, that kind of thing seems pretty rare in our society.
“Anyhow Alex, do I think guns are the great panacea? No, but I think it gives a person a chance if they happen to be unlucky. Best is to get out of the situation but that isn’t so easy all the time.”
Oh, I agree completely. I’m not opposed to liberal firearm and self-defense laws – just pointing out that much of the right is every bit as delusional when it comes to the topic as is most of the left.
This is the socialist mob in action.
Alex has no point.
It’s pointless to engage him.
Please stop.
Rich, I don’t think you have those fingers quite deep enough. You haven’t punctured an eardrum, yet.
Bam Bam is a genocidal liar, ignoring the overwhelming number of lives saved by those guns.
I seldom invite people to CanadianGunNutz.com as I consider the site greentips’ money pit where he virtually weeded out gun politics for ad money, but this is a thread you should visit for a very good draft of a letter to your MP (although the author has not provided the FOI letter he/she is mentioning)
You have to be registered to see the thread. http://tinyurl.com/3m2geaa
The MPs for whom it won’t fall on a deaf ear are Candice Hoeppner (who is proposing her own version of the new bill to scrap the registry but may not go far enough), Gary Breitcreuz and your own MP of course.
Welfare and free housing not enough. Government should provide more “free” thingys…
—————
“We ain’t got no jobs, no money. We heard that other people were getting things for free, so why not us?” asked E.Nan, a young man in a baseball cap in Hackney, a multi-ethnic area in east London and one of the worst-hit areas. http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2011/08/09/18528066.html
Okayyyy….
Do your really think this would be accurring in Switzerland….with it’s extremely low crime rates….mostly committed by foreigners and non-citizens.
Behave like this in Switzerland….they will do more than yodel….
About 1900 (still Victorian) a group of anarchists armed robbed a London Bank, were pursued by a civilians and Police, in a running gun battle, until the bad guys were finally arrested/killed. The unarmed Police borrowed firearms from civilians. Revolvers were commonly carried by the Victorian English Middle Class.
Many things have changed not just laws….demographics….a permissive society with few consequences….
Victorian meant much more than just long shirts and high necklines….it was also the age that spawned Livingston, Speke, Niger, Kitchener and Churchill…and Marx….
Trollex said: “The easy availability of weapons doesn’t stop riots – you only need look at the US to realize this.”
LA riots burned down lots of stuff Trollex, but not the Korean neighborhood.
There are plenty of demonstrations by “disaffected youts” in Phoenix, such as La Raza. But there is no looting.
Why is that, Trollex?
“That’s possible, but unlikely. For one thing, most of the rioting is happening at night, with closed stores being targeted. For another, a shop-owner with a shotgun is not much of a deterent when the looters have their own guns, plus molotov coctails to burn any place they can’t loot.”
Trollex, I’m trying to contain my eye-roll here. Shop-owners don’t have friends and relatives? With shotguns?
Finally, this piece of complete comedy: “Looser gun laws would only help people who are already willing to stand up for themselves…Unfortunately, that kind of thing seems pretty rare in our society.”
Gee Trollex, didn’t I just say that in British and Canadian society right now standing up to rioters is a more serious crime than being one? Didn’t I just say that the cops are more dangerous than the criminals?
Why, I believe I did! By George, it does say that up above at 9:14 AM.
Its not what weapon you use to defend yourself that matters, Trolldumbex, its whether the cops chuck your @ss in jail for it afterward. In Phoenix if you stop a robbery by double tapping the robber with a big frickin’ cowboy gun, you get a citizenship medal from the mayor and a parade. In Toronto you stop a robbery by tackling the guy and holding on to him, you get arrested and they take your house to pay the legal fees.
Gee Trollex, which city is going to have bigger and better riots?
Well I guess turning London into a surveillance zone where the average person is on camera hundreds of times daily hasn’t worked out as planned. Or maybe more people need to take diversity training.
As for shooting looters.. sorry but the only way I could justify that is if personal safety was threatened. No doubt there are situations that allow for deadly force in these riots, but strolling around lighting up crowds (of mostly kids) with gunfire isn’t among them. Something tells me the market for area denial systems just got bigger.
Since nobody has been killed I can say that London deserves what it gets without feeling guilty. Hopefully these riots wake the right people up in the right way.
@Alex at 11:06am
Not sure if this was your intent, but you just made an excellent argument in support of Swiss/Israeli-style compulsory military service.
Less rioting hoodlums, more confident and capable law abiding citizens.
There should grave doubt that the army can help. It has been knackered by the delusionals and the Chiefs of Staff. See here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/25/libya_analysis/
As the saying goes, RTWT.
There is one thing that is clear however. Every MP and every sitting Judge, plus a few BBC talking heads should have the ineffable experience of waking at 3 in the morning, to the sound of breaking glass downstairs. With or without some physical persuasion. It might possibly convince the less brain-dead that the right of self defence needs to revived.
I agree with lookout. The complete disintegration of the family has devastated Western society. Unfortunately, to put an end to the lawlessness, it may be necessary to move to a totalitarian society. I don’t like this option, but I also do not see many choices except extreme authoritarian rule or — what we have now — chaos.
Geeze Linda, other side of the extreme much? What totalitarian society ever existed where the shop-keepers can protect their own stuff?
What we have now isn’t chaos, what we have is incompetent leadership and staggering debt. Somalia now, they have chaos.
Posted by: The Phantom at August 9, 2011 1:29 PM
Grow up.
@Matt:
“Not sure if this was your intent, but you just made an excellent argument in support of Swiss/Israeli-style compulsory military service.”
Eh, there are plenty of delinquents who make it through military training. The CF isn’t geared towards sorting them out. We’re focused on producing professional soldiers who want to be there, not rehabilitating criminals and hoodlums. Some kind of compulsory service might not be a bad idea, but it would require changes that simply will not happen in Canada. Plus, personally, I prefer having a poffessional all-volunteer force where we don’t have to worry about being fragged by our own side. Save compulsory service for when we have no other choice.
You want a service to instill the right values in the populace, start some kind of youth corps. Get input from the YMCA, boy scouts, cadets, etc. And get the children involved early on. It’s much easier to fix them when they’re young, rather than waiting until they’re old enough to join the military.
@Alex
Some sort of mandatory youth corps is more what I had in mind, not rehabilitating criminals. Should have made that clear. The professional volunteer army would then be drawn from those interested who are deemed acceptable.
max @ 1:38 PM
“As for shooting looters.. sorry but the only way I could justify that is if personal safety was threatened.”
That depends on whether you can tolerate Blitz-like damage and unrestricted lawlessness/thuggery in the streets.
Law and Order must prevail.
The key word of the RIOT ACT…
“This is an illegal assembly..you are to disburse”
…while modern day Napoleans load the grape-shot.
Best be gone before they set the rammer aside.
@ottrob “We ain’t got no jobs, no money. We heard that other people were getting things for free, so why not us?”
So they burned down the Welfare Office and the Unemployment one too.
Of all the pictures that I have seen, only Stereo shops and places that sell cigarettes and booze are being hit. Strange – very few if any FOOD stores so if the left has bleated = that they are simply hungry – odd set of priorities.
I wonder how ticket sales for the London 2012 Olympics is going?
After another 20 years of gun control and 500,000 immigrants/year, we will be in the exact same situation here.
Caledonia writ large
Of all the pictures that I have seen, only Stereo shops and places that sell cigarettes and booze are being hit.
~The LS from SK
I saw on the BBC live feed very late last night that some of the targets were pharmacies.
The looters had complete run of the streets and could hit anything they wanted.
Since they banned Fox hunting. Send in the Fox hunters with baseball bats, not many rioters will stand up to a couple dozen horses charging at them with their riders swinging bats.
…while modern day Napoleans load the grape-shot.
I see someone else was thinking of a couple of tanks, some canister shot and a burning building for a safe backstop.
Although one can dream of a catapult, that uses progressives for ammo.
Maybe they should have gave these youths a good wage to dig the footings of a couple stadiums by hand, mix concrete and mortar, so many jobs for idle hands.
Wow Trollex, snappy comeback. So you got nuttin’, huh? Figures.
“I see someone else was thinking of a couple of tanks, some canister shot and a burning building for a safe backstop.”
Totally unnecessary. Fix bayonets,forward at a walk. Box them in, bag them and tag them. With a pipe band to mark the cadence, they could clean the whole place out in ten minutes. The little boys would be running like deer.
If 20 Argyles can see off 100+ Iraqi soldiers with one bayonet charge, I can’t see rioting punks being much of a problem.
You don’t want to kill them. You want to -scare- them. So they tell their friends, and they all stay home. Because its too -scary- to be out causing trouble.
Regardless of how the apologists, trolls, fanatical left wants to portrey the UK riots/ looting…….
Enoch Powell was right!
Here are some of the “predictions” by the man over 40 years ago in the UK. Make any excuses you wish, He was right the rest were wrong….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJQMz-fZzC0&feature=related
“Enoch Powell was right!”
It never ceases to amaze me how Kate manages to attract bigots, like moths to a flame. I’ve yet to see her make any racist statements, yet they are legion amongst her followers. It’s interesting. Do you assume she shares your views? If so, why?
This is my third post !!!!
Please people stop feeding the idiot.
Yes, I agree, stop feeding the idiot. We don’t want him making a fourth post.
Why was Powell evil, Alex? I know his reputation, of course; but what about what he said was wrong? Here is the text of his “River of Blood” speech (he never said “The Thames will run red with blood”): Link.
DSV – yes, he’s got nothing. This point always bugged me, though.
Phantom: “incompetent leadership and staggering debt.” Yes, I agree, and how would you plan to address these? We also have an abdication of personal responsibility. It may not happen overnight, but in my view, Somala is where we are headed. When there is a lack of social cohesion and an emerging criminal class, the centre cannot hold. I am very pessimistic.
Just think of this little episode as a dress rehearsal by the Yobs for the 2012 Summer Games
More from the fabulous Melanie Phillips:
9 August 2011
[Begin quote.] The chickens come frighteningly home to roost
Glad to see others also realising that organised agitation as well as opportunistic anarchy has been fuelling the British riots, which have now spread from London to other cities.
The most frightening aspect of these events is clearly the fact that the Metropolitan Police has been so conspicuously unable to get on top of the criminality and restore order. Indeed, a significant fact behind the rioting, looting, torching of buildings and unprovoked attacks on passers-by has been the perceived weakness of the police and that the thugs thus realise that nothing can stop them smashing up whatever or whomever they choose and stealing whatever they want.
If these disorders continue to escalate, the government will have no option but to call the army onto the streets. . . .
I wrote in yesterday’s Daily Mail that I was disturbed to read that the Home Office was thwarting the Prime Minister’s wish to hire the iconic American ex-police chief Bill Bratton to run the Met. At Conservative Home, Tim Montgomerie agrees. . . .
I have written for more than two decades on the various elements that have contributed to this collapse of order: family breakdown and mass fatherlessness; the toleration and even encouragement of grossly inadequate parenting; educational collapse which damages most those at the bottom of the social heap; welfare dependency; political correctness and the vicious injustices and moral inversion of victim culture; the grossly irresponsible toleration of soft drug-taking; the shuddering distaste at the notion of punishment and the consequent collapse of authority in the entire criminal justice system; the implosion of the policing ethic and the police retreat from the streets; the increasing organisation and boldness of anarchist and left-wing subversive activity; and the growth of irrationality, narcissistic self-centredness and mob rule and the near-certainty of a fundamental breakdown of morality and order.
To every one of these arguments that I have made over the years, the left has responded with jeers and smears. Now, as terrified citizens see their homes and businesses torched, looters queue up in order more efficiently to steal from shattered shops and passing motor-cyclists are dragged off their machines and beaten up and robbed –all with near-total impunity — we can see all these chickens coming so frighteningly home to roost. [End quote.]
Go here for the rest and embedded links:
http://melaniephillips.com/the-chickens-come-frighteningly-home-to-roost
In Canada, a women’s group—reviled and ridiculed for over three decades by all the elites, and those copy cats who aren’t!—has been raising the same flag as Melanie Phillips: educating, attending the UN women’s conferences, as one of the few conservative NGOs, and intervening in Supreme Court cases, among many other things, to try to slow our descent into anarchy. That group would be REAL Women. With the indomitable Gwen Landolt at the helm, this prophetic group has put their money and talents where their mouth is (on their own dime) to defend marriage and the family (our kids), while the anti-men, anti-marriage, anti-children feminists have been given all the goodies and have been allowed to have (on the taxpayer’s dime) an astonishingly destructive influence in nearly all our institutions.
REAL Women opposed the Charter before it was enacted: they saw that it would empower subversive behaviours and disallow society’s ability to inhibit them—all those rights to the “victims”, ya know—so they can victimize the rest of us. And REAL Women’s been laughed at and treated like Sarah Palin for decades.“And [Jesus] said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.” (Luke 4:24)
I know I say it all the time, but maybe some who think it’s over the top, will now realize what I mean when I write, “Kyrie eleison”: “Lord, have mercy.” We “have erred and strayed like lost sheep” (Anglican Book of Common Prayer), ravenous wolves are bearing down on us, and the shepherds have run away.
Kyrie eleison.
If the cops can’t protect the citizenry, then, as Kate and the inestimable Melanie Phillips say, it’s time to send in the army who can.
As for the script by Willi Münzenberg of the Frankfurt School of Subversion (Shawn @ 12:22 AM), he should be up for a posthumous Academy Award.
Verily, lookout, Kyrie eleison — and hats off, always, to REAL Women.
David Cooke said waaaay back at the beginning: “The trouble is, if you have guns, very soon the street thugs will have guns too. The same way they got the mobile phones.”
Rather that just roll my eyes Mr. Cooke I’m going to ‘splain something to you. These riots we are looking at the last three days are the -inevitable and inescapable- end result of the policy you are suggesting.
Government, in principle and in fact, simply does not have the power to keep weapons away from street thugs. Not guns, not knives, sticks or table legs.
In Britain there have been countless examples of completely harmless citizens put through the “justice” grinder for carrying a pocket knife, for owning a gun, one memorable one was a guy busted for having a table leg wrapped up in a garbage bag. Still guns out on the streets, still rioters able to burn down whole buildings.
But here’s the kicker Mr. Cooke. The -real- corrosive effect is not that criminals can still get guns. That is actually of very small consequence. A pistol is not tremendously more dangerous than a knife, it just has more hype.
No, the real corrosion is forbidding the great mass of law abiding citizens from taking part in the defense of their own property, even their own lives. In Britain and in Canada, as lots of people mentioned above if you use a weapon to defend yourself or your property from a crime, the state will crush you, financially and physically. Reference Caledonia Ontario for sufficient evidence of that.
Inevitable result number one, kids form gangs for protection from the cops and from each other. Inevitable result number two, people who live where the gang is let them do whatever the hell they want because the cops are a bigger threat to them personally than petty crime and nuisance.
Inevitable result number three, gangs eventually realize that A) they can do whatever they want and B) the cops can’t stop them.
Then they riot. Then the Army comes and starts in shooting them wholesale. Which will stop the riot for sure, but will corrode society even more, because now the people are still helpless against the gangs and cops, but now both the gangs and the cops have blood to avenge.
End result? Civil war, or Soviet style tyranny, or one then the other.
Or we could let shop keepers face down looters one at a time with a Winchester pump full of stingballs and rock salt.
That would seem like a no-brainer, but Liberals consistently choose wrong. Something about armed shop keepers being a bigger threat than armed rioters duking it out with mechanized infantry in the city streets.
Here endeth the lesson. Choose.
Not only that, the british police are demoralized and ebervated by stupid bureaucratic regulations.
Read Inpector Gadget’s blog for the low down.
If they knew who he was, they’d fire him.
#==============
Riot1
Old days:
Riot act is read. Troups / heavily armoured police who are high morale and looking forward to being let off the leash move in and beat the snot out of everyone they catch. up to & including shooting them if they show signs of organization. Survivors are arrested, some are jailed.
Riot quickly ends. Usual whiners complain about the “innocent” getting hurt. Most citizens heave a sigh of relief.
New Riots:
People “try to understand” the rioters, the police must use ( relatively speaking) kid gloves and will get hammered/fired/suspended if, “gott im himmel”, some arse seen throwing a brick at unarmoured police ends up in hospital – later evidence is that he was beat up by other rioters – but not for throwing bricks.
Result: days of rioting , huge property damage, theft and mayhem.
Phantom, exactly. The response of the British government has been woefully slow. Their comment this morning was “6000 police, last night, 16,000 police tonight”. The correct statement should have happened 24 hours ago and should have been: “British army in the street tonight, Curfew tonight, circumscribed martial law, tonight. Looters, arsonists and those resisting arrest without lawful purpose will be shot on sight”.
Melanie Phillips is a twit. Ignore her blather, and read what Phantom wrote. He’s got it just about right – the only part he doesn’t seem to get is that guns are a security-blanket for conservatives the same way that “gun-control” is a security blanket for liberals. The easy availability of weapons doesn’t stop riots – you only need look at the US to realize this. But it sure does feel nice to grip one when the s**t hits the fan.
Rioting and anarchy are “chic” at the moment.
Alex – since LA and the advent of concealed carry – when was the last time the US had riots on the scale of England? Everyone who’s ever had to actually defend something has learned that you must meet force with force, and convince the other, that you will not lose. Physically or psychologically, there is no other way. Every law enforcment officer practices it every day.
“guns are a security-blanket for conservatives the same way that “gun-control” is a security blanket for liberals”
And another point Alex, you don’t get: Gun control is a phantom measure (apologies to real Phantom), without fact or substance. Guns in hand are real. Consequences of their use are real and immediate. They are not a debate, not a philosophical argument. A security blanket with real coverage.
“Alex – since LA and the advent of concealed carry – when was the last time the US had riots on the scale of England?”
Since LA, when is the last time that the cops ALLOWED riots to reach the scale of England? You may have noticed a certain philosophical differences between the two nations, as far as law enforcement is concerned. If you’re honestly suggesting that concealed carry laws are what’s prevented major rioting, you’re delusional.
“Everyone who’s ever had to actually defend something has learned that you must meet force with force, and convince the other, that you will not lose.”
Naw. You just have to shoot the bastard. Force projection is a method for preventing violence, not facing it.
The always idiotic quebecois NDPiste says
“send in army, shoot all looters?
========
like in Syria?”
The comment shows just how brain dead the left really is. To try to compare lawlessness of a small minority of thugs living in a legitimate democracy to the power of a dictator is truly laughable. But that is what passes for leftist “logic” these days. Must be the brain damage caused by too much “experimentation” when they were young and skipping school.
The vast majority of the citizens in the UK demand adherence to the laws. And the State is duty bound to provide it. Leftists (in particular) probably don’t remember (or more likely were never taught) that state policing was brought into existence with the express promise if the citizens conceded the power of policing to the state that the state would provide that policing….with the express condition, however, that if the state did NOT provide that policing, the citizens were free to take the matter of policing back into their own hands. So it is time for the police (and military, if necessary) to restore order. Fast and hard.
From The Guardian:
“1.36pm: Jasmine Coleman has been talking to people who live either along or near Kingland High Street in Dalston, where Turkish and Kurdish shopkeepers were out in force last night.
Many are grateful to the workers around here and thank them for stopping the spread of violence from nearby Mare Street and Dalston Junction.
Debbie Mumdy, 41, who lives in Shacklewell Lane where a bus was set alight last night, said:
Most of the residents are really relieved that the Turkish community has been protecting the area. I think it was the same situation in Stoke Newington. It’s thanks to these guys that Kingsland High Street wasn’t attacked.”
And Nick Smith, chairman of a charity fundraising business based near Dalston Junction, said:
It’s brilliant. These guys are obviously going to keep the trouble down. I don’t think this particular area is going to be attacked as a result.”
But a 23-year-old council worker, who had just been evacuated from Hackney town hall due to fears of further rioting, said he was concerned this sort of defence would increase tensions between communities:
It is just a response from people who feel this is completely lawless and I completely understand why people are coming out to defend their businesses – but I agree with the idea that it is just going to make matters worse. I would hate to see this turn into a generational or racial battle.”
Further proof that Britain has been a third-world country for a long, long time.
@ Alex, I won’t bore you with my initmate experience with a use of a firearm to save a life that did not involve anyone getting shot.
But bear with me if you will, one of the interesting talks in the aftermath of Katrina at a nonpolitical non-gun conference was this gay couple who had stayed in their home for some reason. Anyhow they had an old forgotten shotgun that they had pulled out of storage which they use to fend off looting gangs (without killing anyone, it was the threat of armed resistance). DUring that time their home became a bastion of support for other people who had remained due to their ability to defend themselves. One of the most interesting things mentioned was that they became very scared of the government because they lived in fear that the state would confiscate their firearms – a real fear in that area. Really interesting experience.
Now I am not suggesting every shopkeeper open up with buckshot on looters, i think a lot of innocent people trapped in the riot would have been killed. However the use of nonlethal force would be acceptable such as salt-shot. However I do wonder that if we lived in a society where the idea that a shopowner carrying a shotgun in the window of his store was accepted, as was the use of force to defend property, that looting would probably have been a lot less common.
During the race riots many blacks who were not or did not want to be involved in the troubles used firearms to protect themselves against rioters and gangs.
Anyhow Alex, do I think guns are the great panacea? No, but I think it gives a person a chance if they happen to be unlucky. Best is to get out of the situation but that isn’t so easy all the time.
“Obama is voted in due to racism. Immigration is “fubar”d due to racism. Political correctness is racism. A race of any origin given special treatment is racist.
Britian is laying in the bed they created. America has “change”, because a “white” guy would never be voted in for such progressive policies. California is in disrepair due to racist “pro-illegal” immigration.”
Posted by: Knacker at August 9, 2011 2:25 AM
Excellent point Knacker.
I’d add, due to racism, Canada has the 15 billion dollars a year reserve system and our 2% Indian population are a mess – totally over represented in our welfare system, rehab, crime stats. and jails nation-wide.
One Law For All.
England and socialism growing old together, the wealth redistribution crowd doing what they do best stealing other people’s property and ruining small businesses. Destroy vast segments of London financially, yea that’ll help them get jobs. The socialist’s loots can’t get up and go to work during the day but they can riot all night long.
DSV and lookout’s comments are right, as well as my own thoughts and anyone else who has said “The chickens of the social engineering policies of the last half century coming home to roost.
batb, well said at 8:59 and maybe also a posthumous Nobel Peace Prize. This would fit in with some of the other misfits and frauds that have received the prize lately.
Alex said “Naw. You just have to shoot the bastard. Force projection is a method for preventing violence, not facing it.” It is not often I agree with anything Alex has to say, but this is one of the times.
I still maintain the the picture of the double-decker bus burning is Britain’s funeral pyre and the best comment so far was “Is the Luftwaffe back in business?”.
Hmmm, hopefully the army, when it is called in, is up for it. Otherwise????
And the winner of the WTH quote of the day goes to,
“Last night was the worst the MPS (Metropolitan Police Service) has seen in current memory for unacceptable levels of widespread looting, fires and disorder,” a police statement said on Tuesday.”
This would presume there is an acceptable level of widespread looting, fires and disorder then?
” However I do wonder that if we lived in a society where the idea that a shopowner carrying a shotgun in the window of his store was accepted, as was the use of force to defend property, that looting would probably have been a lot less common.”
That’s possible, but unlikely. For one thing, most of the rioting is happening at night, with closed stores being targeted. For another, a shop-owner with a shotgun is not much of a deterent when the looters have their own guns, plus molotov coctails to burn any place they can’t loot.
More importantly, though, you’re going to have a tough time finding shop-owners and employees who will WANT to have a firearm. This isn’t the 1950’s any more, where your grocer was probably a guy who stormed the beaches of Normandy. You really think the Barista at Star Bucks is going to pick up a shotgun and defend his Frappucino machine? Think the $15-an-hour manager at Footlocker will try to hold off a rampaging horde? I just can’t see the minimum-wage loser working in the Sporting Goods department of S-Mart volunteering to exchange bullets with the local gang. These people would be more likely to join in with the looters than to pick up a gun and try to hold them off. Giving a gun to a sheep doesn’t turn it into a wolf. Looser gun laws would only help people who are already willing to stand up for themselves, such as the Turkish community which stood up to the looters in London. Unfortunately, that kind of thing seems pretty rare in our society.
“Anyhow Alex, do I think guns are the great panacea? No, but I think it gives a person a chance if they happen to be unlucky. Best is to get out of the situation but that isn’t so easy all the time.”
Oh, I agree completely. I’m not opposed to liberal firearm and self-defense laws – just pointing out that much of the right is every bit as delusional when it comes to the topic as is most of the left.
This is the socialist mob in action.
Alex has no point.
It’s pointless to engage him.
Please stop.
Rich, I don’t think you have those fingers quite deep enough. You haven’t punctured an eardrum, yet.
Bam Bam is a genocidal liar, ignoring the overwhelming number of lives saved by those guns.
I seldom invite people to CanadianGunNutz.com as I consider the site greentips’ money pit where he virtually weeded out gun politics for ad money, but this is a thread you should visit for a very good draft of a letter to your MP (although the author has not provided the FOI letter he/she is mentioning)
You have to be registered to see the thread.
http://tinyurl.com/3m2geaa
The MPs for whom it won’t fall on a deaf ear are Candice Hoeppner (who is proposing her own version of the new bill to scrap the registry but may not go far enough), Gary Breitcreuz and your own MP of course.
Welfare and free housing not enough. Government should provide more “free” thingys…
—————
“We ain’t got no jobs, no money. We heard that other people were getting things for free, so why not us?” asked E.Nan, a young man in a baseball cap in Hackney, a multi-ethnic area in east London and one of the worst-hit areas.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2011/08/09/18528066.html
Okayyyy….
Do your really think this would be accurring in Switzerland….with it’s extremely low crime rates….mostly committed by foreigners and non-citizens.
Behave like this in Switzerland….they will do more than yodel….
About 1900 (still Victorian) a group of anarchists armed robbed a London Bank, were pursued by a civilians and Police, in a running gun battle, until the bad guys were finally arrested/killed. The unarmed Police borrowed firearms from civilians. Revolvers were commonly carried by the Victorian English Middle Class.
Many things have changed not just laws….demographics….a permissive society with few consequences….
Victorian meant much more than just long shirts and high necklines….it was also the age that spawned Livingston, Speke, Niger, Kitchener and Churchill…and Marx….
Trollex said: “The easy availability of weapons doesn’t stop riots – you only need look at the US to realize this.”
LA riots burned down lots of stuff Trollex, but not the Korean neighborhood.
There are plenty of demonstrations by “disaffected youts” in Phoenix, such as La Raza. But there is no looting.
Why is that, Trollex?
“That’s possible, but unlikely. For one thing, most of the rioting is happening at night, with closed stores being targeted. For another, a shop-owner with a shotgun is not much of a deterent when the looters have their own guns, plus molotov coctails to burn any place they can’t loot.”
Trollex, I’m trying to contain my eye-roll here. Shop-owners don’t have friends and relatives? With shotguns?
Finally, this piece of complete comedy: “Looser gun laws would only help people who are already willing to stand up for themselves…Unfortunately, that kind of thing seems pretty rare in our society.”
Gee Trollex, didn’t I just say that in British and Canadian society right now standing up to rioters is a more serious crime than being one? Didn’t I just say that the cops are more dangerous than the criminals?
Why, I believe I did! By George, it does say that up above at 9:14 AM.
Its not what weapon you use to defend yourself that matters, Trolldumbex, its whether the cops chuck your @ss in jail for it afterward. In Phoenix if you stop a robbery by double tapping the robber with a big frickin’ cowboy gun, you get a citizenship medal from the mayor and a parade. In Toronto you stop a robbery by tackling the guy and holding on to him, you get arrested and they take your house to pay the legal fees.
Gee Trollex, which city is going to have bigger and better riots?
Well I guess turning London into a surveillance zone where the average person is on camera hundreds of times daily hasn’t worked out as planned. Or maybe more people need to take diversity training.
As for shooting looters.. sorry but the only way I could justify that is if personal safety was threatened. No doubt there are situations that allow for deadly force in these riots, but strolling around lighting up crowds (of mostly kids) with gunfire isn’t among them. Something tells me the market for area denial systems just got bigger.
Since nobody has been killed I can say that London deserves what it gets without feeling guilty. Hopefully these riots wake the right people up in the right way.
@Alex at 11:06am
Not sure if this was your intent, but you just made an excellent argument in support of Swiss/Israeli-style compulsory military service.
Less rioting hoodlums, more confident and capable law abiding citizens.
There should grave doubt that the army can help. It has been knackered by the delusionals and the Chiefs of Staff. See here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/25/libya_analysis/
As the saying goes, RTWT.
There is one thing that is clear however. Every MP and every sitting Judge, plus a few BBC talking heads should have the ineffable experience of waking at 3 in the morning, to the sound of breaking glass downstairs. With or without some physical persuasion. It might possibly convince the less brain-dead that the right of self defence needs to revived.
I agree with lookout. The complete disintegration of the family has devastated Western society. Unfortunately, to put an end to the lawlessness, it may be necessary to move to a totalitarian society. I don’t like this option, but I also do not see many choices except extreme authoritarian rule or — what we have now — chaos.
Geeze Linda, other side of the extreme much? What totalitarian society ever existed where the shop-keepers can protect their own stuff?
What we have now isn’t chaos, what we have is incompetent leadership and staggering debt. Somalia now, they have chaos.
Posted by: The Phantom at August 9, 2011 1:29 PM
Grow up.
@Matt:
“Not sure if this was your intent, but you just made an excellent argument in support of Swiss/Israeli-style compulsory military service.”
Eh, there are plenty of delinquents who make it through military training. The CF isn’t geared towards sorting them out. We’re focused on producing professional soldiers who want to be there, not rehabilitating criminals and hoodlums. Some kind of compulsory service might not be a bad idea, but it would require changes that simply will not happen in Canada. Plus, personally, I prefer having a poffessional all-volunteer force where we don’t have to worry about being fragged by our own side. Save compulsory service for when we have no other choice.
You want a service to instill the right values in the populace, start some kind of youth corps. Get input from the YMCA, boy scouts, cadets, etc. And get the children involved early on. It’s much easier to fix them when they’re young, rather than waiting until they’re old enough to join the military.
@Alex
Some sort of mandatory youth corps is more what I had in mind, not rehabilitating criminals. Should have made that clear. The professional volunteer army would then be drawn from those interested who are deemed acceptable.
max @ 1:38 PM
“As for shooting looters.. sorry but the only way I could justify that is if personal safety was threatened.”
That depends on whether you can tolerate Blitz-like damage and unrestricted lawlessness/thuggery in the streets.
Law and Order must prevail.
The key word of the RIOT ACT…
“This is an illegal assembly..you are to disburse”
…while modern day Napoleans load the grape-shot.
Best be gone before they set the rammer aside.
@ottrob “We ain’t got no jobs, no money. We heard that other people were getting things for free, so why not us?”
So they burned down the Welfare Office and the Unemployment one too.
Of all the pictures that I have seen, only Stereo shops and places that sell cigarettes and booze are being hit. Strange – very few if any FOOD stores so if the left has bleated = that they are simply hungry – odd set of priorities.
I wonder how ticket sales for the London 2012 Olympics is going?
After another 20 years of gun control and 500,000 immigrants/year, we will be in the exact same situation here.
Caledonia writ large
Of all the pictures that I have seen, only Stereo shops and places that sell cigarettes and booze are being hit.
~The LS from SK
I saw on the BBC live feed very late last night that some of the targets were pharmacies.
The looters had complete run of the streets and could hit anything they wanted.
Since they banned Fox hunting. Send in the Fox hunters with baseball bats, not many rioters will stand up to a couple dozen horses charging at them with their riders swinging bats.
…while modern day Napoleans load the grape-shot.
I see someone else was thinking of a couple of tanks, some canister shot and a burning building for a safe backstop.
Although one can dream of a catapult, that uses progressives for ammo.
Maybe they should have gave these youths a good wage to dig the footings of a couple stadiums by hand, mix concrete and mortar, so many jobs for idle hands.
Wow Trollex, snappy comeback. So you got nuttin’, huh? Figures.
“I see someone else was thinking of a couple of tanks, some canister shot and a burning building for a safe backstop.”
Totally unnecessary. Fix bayonets,forward at a walk. Box them in, bag them and tag them. With a pipe band to mark the cadence, they could clean the whole place out in ten minutes. The little boys would be running like deer.
If 20 Argyles can see off 100+ Iraqi soldiers with one bayonet charge, I can’t see rioting punks being much of a problem.
You don’t want to kill them. You want to -scare- them. So they tell their friends, and they all stay home. Because its too -scary- to be out causing trouble.
Regardless of how the apologists, trolls, fanatical left wants to portrey the UK riots/ looting…….
Enoch Powell was right!
Here are some of the “predictions” by the man over 40 years ago in the UK. Make any excuses you wish, He was right the rest were wrong…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJQMz-fZzC0&feature=related
Full show 5 parts:
Enoch Powell: British Hero Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwO6v9POt74
“Enoch Powell was right!”
It never ceases to amaze me how Kate manages to attract bigots, like moths to a flame. I’ve yet to see her make any racist statements, yet they are legion amongst her followers. It’s interesting. Do you assume she shares your views? If so, why?
This is my third post !!!!
Please people stop feeding the idiot.
Yes, I agree, stop feeding the idiot. We don’t want him making a fourth post.
Why was Powell evil, Alex? I know his reputation, of course; but what about what he said was wrong? Here is the text of his “River of Blood” speech (he never said “The Thames will run red with blood”): Link.
DSV – yes, he’s got nothing. This point always bugged me, though.
Phantom: “incompetent leadership and staggering debt.” Yes, I agree, and how would you plan to address these? We also have an abdication of personal responsibility. It may not happen overnight, but in my view, Somala is where we are headed. When there is a lack of social cohesion and an emerging criminal class, the centre cannot hold. I am very pessimistic.