Publius demands some spine from Mr Harper–another good read:
Quebec Rules
The Quebecois are different from you and me. They’re Quebecois.Quebec is demanding that the federal government not trim the province’s political clout in the House of Commons, warning that it will not be satisfied with the consolation prize of an extra seat or two.
Both the governing Liberals and the Parti Quebecois shrugged off reports that the Harper government might be prepared to add an extra seat for Quebec to soothe critics of the new Commons configuration.
What they want instead is a guarantee that the province will continue to hold 24 per cent of the chamber’s seats. Quebec currently has 75 of the 308 seats.This is the Quebec rule of Canadian politics. If something prejudices Quebec, no matter what it may do to the rest of Canada, it cannot come to pass…
…Our [RoC, once quaintly English Canada] sense of nationality can best be described as a neurotic hatred of the United States, interspersed with a militant insistence that we have no nationality. Canada as anti-American multicultural hotel. No doubt what the men of Juno Beach were hoping to find when they returned home.
The last half century of Canadian history is a case study in cultural appeasement. The steady surrender by the Anglophone majority of their culture in hopes of placating the Francophone minority…
The shift in relative economic and demographic strength to the West has been the great unsung story of the last few decades. From hinterland to heartland, the Prairie provinces and B.C. can now provide a counter-weight to the influence of self-interested Quebec and pragmatic Ontario. Back in April the Tories proposed giving Albert five and B.C. seven additional seats in the Commons, while Ontario would get another eighteen seats (mostly in the bluish suburbs surrounding Toronto). These new seats would not only recognize demographic reality, they would create the electoral basis of a Conservative Party pre-emience for decades to come.
Whatever pressure may come down upon the Prime Minister he must not, whatever the cost, fail to grant those new seats to the West and maintain Quebec at about its current 75 seats. For reasons of political cosmetics it might be necessary to toss another seat or two to Quebec. That province, however, cannot continue to be over represented…
The constitution does not give Quebec an additional 4 seats everytime. The Representation ACT of 1985 ammended it, as I described.
I am sure many Quebec nationalist huckstrs try to pass off that old act as a deal that somehow was written in stone. They will pile a greivance on. If Layton takes that up it just means he is channeling Gilles duceppe.
Anyway, Quebec does not get 4 seats, they apparently were supposed before the act was changed in 1985.
http://www.elections.ca/SCRIPTs/fedrep/federal_e/red/representation_e.htm
There are many things to get upset about in life. Quebec having 4 more seats guranteed is not one of them
Talking of “cultural appeasement” brings to mind my own experiences in appeasement. I have met many persons who like myself came to Canada from afar. At first I toed the line and made weak comments as to how these persons culture was exceptional in one sense or another.
The more one tried to butter them up, the more one tried to kow tow, the nastier or contemptuous they got. I have never discovered why. This seems to be the same kind of attitude of certain politicos in Quebec. The average working class French-Canadian that I have met, is the salt of the earth.
Now more of that self efacing crap for me. It is an absolute minefield. As a well known American talk show radio host has said. “You cannot make those you have defeated – like you”. (As in respect etc.
We have be blackmailed for years!
Memo to the Quebecois …. Kiss My @ss………….
stephen – thanks for your data. I see your point. So, Quebec gets 75 seats..since no province can have fewer seats than they had in 1976.
However, Quebec rejects this and wants a percentage ratio above its population ratio.
Dennis K at 7.27pm.
I had to chuckle at your suggestion. Yes, a corridor to enable the Maritime Provinces to connect with the rest of us.
I have always felt that if Canada decided to secede from THEM, the screams and cries would arise. I always remember a pundit who wrote that if in the referendum in Quebec, the separatists lost by half a percent, this would give an enormous bargaining chip to pressure Ottawa.
I know it is an urban legend, but I read that the sovereignists actually won a referendum. It was aborted. It was said they sharked up 40,000 votes from somewhere to give a no vote, by about one and a half percent, not to separate.
Without Federal money, if things went adrift, the leaders of separatism would run for their very lives.
Stephen and ET:
You may be interested in this Wikipedia article, especially the part half way down where there is an interesting table of province specific data.
brent weston – yes, I’ve seen that chart. It’s not easy allocating electoral districts fairly.
After all, demographic and economic realities have to be acknowledged. For example, it is a reality that PEI will never have the population size of Ontario. But, since the law says that no province can have fewer seats than it had in 1974, then, a certain ‘grandfathering history’ is acknowleddged. This includes the 75 seats of Quebec.
But that’s not the point, which is that Quebec doesn’t want representation by factual demographic reality. It wants representation by what it considers its fundamental ‘special position’ in Canada.
That is, no matter how much the population grows, for example, in the West, and how much the actual percentage ratio of Quebec is reduced….Quebec wants instead a ‘political ratio’ of always: 24% in the House.
Stephen and ET, thank you for your interesting information and clarification on this topic.
Quebec always wants more financial assistance and power and it will be interesting to see how Jack Layton deals with this by talking out of both sides of his mouth. I suspect that much of the media will not let him get away with it. It will also be interesting to see how PM Harper responds to this Quebec demand.
ET:
Yes, you are correct about what Quebec is “demanding” and that the CPC is simply basing their numbers on the facts. I took the entire article from the Canadian Press with a certain degree of skepticism. Consider the following quote:
But the province — whose power in government suffered a historic decline with the May 2 election results — insists that it won’t accept being further marginalized.
What kind of a writer writes something like that? Let’s see. Quebec goes from 11 seats in a 143 seat minority government to 5 seats in a 166 seat majority government. Sure, that’s a decline. But a historic decline? Hmmmm.
I thought the remainder of the article was written with as much integrity. Quebec “will not accept”, Quebec “demands”, “insists it won’t accept”. Nowhere does the author cite a source suggesting what Quebec will do if Ottawa ignores its “demands”. I suppose we will have to wait and see just how weak Harper is, but for the time being, I am filing this under “wishing thinking” by a author with a French surname.
Orlin in Marquette, that quote was from geek49203 at May 31, 2011 5:14 PM
It seems that geek49203 has come to SDA to insult us like the boor who arrives drunk uninvited at a party and urinates on the carpet.
This troll is the quintessential ugly American.
I too view Americans generally as brothers and sisters(I actually have Americans in the family) and wish America well, but I do know that many Americans are like geek49203.
(even the conservative ones)
quebecois NDPist –
Kindly tell us all just how much preferential treatment for quebec will be enough. For the past 30+ years your province has taken more in transfer payments than they’ve paid, and there’s always another rescue package for bombardier and other poorly-managed industries. You brag about and enjoy the “benefits” of $5/day daycare, but it’s clearly funded by the rest of canada.
You and your lot are like the puling, whining and disgustingly spoiled child who – despite the fact that they’ve been denied very little in their adolescent life – continually threaten to leave home unless their ever-ludicrous demands are met. And Canada, like some timid parent, cave to your demands, every time.
Mark Steyn described your independence movement as one of the most inept in the world, and he’s right: you threaten to leave this great country, in order to set up something virtually the same: same passport, same currency, worse income taxation… Who will be your sugar-daddy if you bail out, QN? Have you ever wondered that? With fewer and fewer quebec women actually having children, that means… mon dieu!! Even more taxation.
Perhaps you’ve thought about that, and just rely upon the same old ROC fears to cause the feds to cave – yet again – to more demands. Chretien sleepwalked through your last referendum, and we almost bid you adieu then, QN. However, there is a marked difference this time: in the mid-90s, there were gatherings and rallies of anglos showing their support and desire to see you stay. Wonder if you’d get that type of support now? I doubt it.
Many more canadians are sick of pandering to you and your sulking lot, QN. It’s time to start treating you equally, as is done with other provinces in this country. “Separate but equal” needs to start actually meaning “equal”. If you really think you have a raw deal in this country, then please leave after repaying your share of the national debt. Believe this: nobody will start any civil war to keep you here. But either pull the trigger, or STFU.
And I for one agree with sub-urban’s point above: the next quebec referendum should allow EVERY canadian to vote on whether or not they wish to see quebec stay in the country; enough of this “waiting in the back room with fingers crossed” nonsense to see if we can welcome QN et al back with open arms if they do us the incredible honor of staying – grudgingly – in this country. Please either stay with the same rights and opportunities as the rest of the country… or bon voyage. Pick one.
mhb23re
One thing I know Harper will do. Thats make sure the West gets its representation for sure.
Its his base.
To do otherwise would be commiting political suicide & Harper ain’t dumb.
That is what the liberals found out the hard way threw unpresedented minorities. he played em like a violin with cat gut.
‘It’s time for the Quebecois to grow up, and take their knocks like the rest of us, the ROC. They’re not special, they’re Canadians just like all of us who don’t live in Quebec.’ Well said batb. Plain and simple.
Thank-you ET for all the excellent clarifications.
Most of the people who live in Quebec are not descendants of French settlers; a large percentage are Scottish or Irish and they did have a just beef with the English colony (Canada) prior to 1867. That is all over now – we, in the ROC owe the people in Quebec nothing…we have been blackmailed by the whine far too long.
Stick to your guns PMSH.
C’est le temp de leur dire “au revoir” Ba bye now.
In fact, should there be another “neverendum” I’ll take time out of my busy schedule to go to Quebec and campaign for the separatists.
The Constitution appears to be the biggest job creator in Quebec!
Without Quebec I never would have figured out the whole fries and gravy and cheese thing. They’re an integral part of this nation.
There is no ‘french’ culture. It’s dead.
In quebec, as in france, arabic muslim culture has be chosen to replace the ‘french’
Reality bites.
What Quebec politicians have not realized is the policy frame work of Canada as two solitudes has changed to one dependant solitude being economically supported by the roc. Times have changed, before they make one more demand they must be advising the PM they will be signing the constitution.
RE: ET at May 31, 2011 5:11 PM
The internet has changed (and enlarged) Quebec’s view of the world. The youth want access to all the cool stuff they’ve heard about.
This is a good thing.