The core of a nuclear reactor operates at about 550 degrees Fahrenheit, well below the temperature of a coal furnace and only slightly hotter than a kitchen oven. If anything unusual occurs, the control rods immediately drop, shutting off the nuclear reaction. You can’t have a “runaway reactor,” nor can a reactor explode like a nuclear bomb. A commercial reactor is to a bomb what Vaseline is to napalm. Although both are made from petroleum jelly, only one of them has potentially explosive material.
When authorities are at the point of using sea water to cool the nuclear reactor things are pretty desperate. It’s the last measure. It means, it’s a write off, and affected areas to be sealed off and replaced.
Neither this set of reactors, nor the others in Japan were designed to withstand this level of earthquake. That is
going to add a geometric increase in the capital cost
of nuclear power.
As nuclear power comprises about a third of Japan’s electrical
generation this will affect their economy. As the third largest economy in the world, it’s effects will be felt farther away
than just Japan.
Cherynobyl, I should hope not. Belarus which was downwind from that accident in 1986 had about 25% of it’s agricultural land contaminated, according to friends of mine who are from there. It’s agricultural products won’t be fit for human consumption for a long, long, long time.
If that were to happen to Japan their economy, their world status, would suffer dramatically. Food prices may be affected now. The economic effects of this earthquake though less, are serious.
Uranium stocks, not a promising category for growth and capital gains. Hope you sold short? Risky investment, what
you didn’t know that? Roller coaster rides in the marketplace.
Cancer? genetic mutations? The increase is part of the risk factor. Earthquakes are too, when you live in that zone.
Sure this is all true. The control rods are held up by electro-magnets so if power fails they fall down and start absorbing neutrons as the “failsafe” mode.
All that being true however they are still pumping boric acid solutions into the cores of some of these reactors. Why? The boron is a neutron adsorber and they need to “calm” the reaction down. Obviously they are still struggling despite dropping the control rods.
I’m waiting for true experts to speak – nuclear engineers, specifically – before forming any conclusions on the safety of the Japanese reactors.
So far, many of the commentators, even the ones on Fox – are from organizations opposed to nuclear power generation and/or are propose unilateral nuclear disarmament for the West, and have no nuclear engineering background whatsoever.
I highly recommend the discussion on Blackfive.net on this topic. It is by two nuclear engineers and provides a very understandable description of reactors, options, and actions probably taken and events probably underway. I say “probably” because the two commenters point out that they are not in Japan and are having to read between the lines on some of the more illogical news stories.
Thus far, I’ve neither read nor heard of the reactor containment vessels’ being breached. Until that happens, this is a major incident but it is not a disaster (unless you need power from the three reactors currently having problems or the other eight that were possibly damaged).
I’m waiting for true experts to speak…
Posted by: small c conservative at March 14, 2011 5:08 PM
Well, if you’ll settle for the multi-disciplinary kind of expert, you have two choices:
Suzuki, or Gore?
Brian: In BWRs like Fukushima, the control and shutdown rods (there’s two different sets) are driven into the reactor from underneath. In PWRs, like all the rest of the reactors in the US and most other places around the world, the rods are driven in from the top of the reactor.
In both cases the rods must be driven in by electric motors. The pressure in the vessel is too high for them to simply fall into the reactor.
The rod-drop you are talking about only applies to CANDU reactors.
The problem is not a nuclear reaction. That was shut off within seconds. The problem is the decay heat.
Larry: please do refrain from commenting on specific technical aspects of nuclear power and uranium. It’s agonizingly obvious you know nothing about it. The reactors withstood the earthquake just fine even though it exceeded considerably the design basis. The problem was the tsunami.
No. No experts are needed. It should be obvious to all that real world events have (and will again) occurred that are beyond the safety margins in our reactor designs.
Until you can hit a big red button and walk away with no concern – no more will be built. Convincing people this is true will be harder than the technical challenges to make it true.
The best commentary/analysis I’ve read so far on what’s going on can be found here.
So only after the cooling water no longer exists does the core actually enter a meltdown stage. It seems as though many in the media are suggesting it is either in meltdown or “partial meltdown”.
“When authorities are at the point of using sea water to cool the nuclear reactor things are pretty desperate. It’s the last measure. It means, it’s a write off, and affected areas to be sealed off and replaced. ”
I think you are incorrect. Full nuclear meltdown was averted, the chain reaction was stopped after the quake. This cannot proceed to Chernobyl stage. The problem is now cooling the rods, due to lack of power. That’s where the seawater comes in.
On gen III reactors this wouldn’t happen – natural convection would’ve taken care of this.
I’m just worried about all the radiation being leaked by venting. The fact is I bet most folks even on the ground there haven’t a clue what is coming next. This is Indian territory to them.
JMO
Put The Lime In The Coconut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LxC3M-Yngs
CFRA.
“Have the earthquake damage and continuing radioactive steam and smoke emissions from Japanese reactors weakened your confidence in building more reactors in Ontario?”
1. Yes
25.6%
2. No
73.2%
3. Other
1.16%”
http://www.cfra.com/
http://www.bluelikeyou.com/2011/03/14/jacks-dilemma/#comment-64598
The Japanese are in control of this nuclear problem.
The Three Stooges were in control at Cherynobyl.
Like Fearless leader, I would think I would want this problem being solved by the Japanese.
This is the best article I’ve read so far from Nuclear Science and Engineering at MIT. A little lengthy but quite informative. The long and the short of it, don’t go jumping out a window to avoid a pending nuclear halocaust. Ain’t happening.
http://mitnse.com/
I heard that the heat was decreasing in increments.
What Fearless Leader said.
Lots of misinformation and misunderstanding.
It’s true the reactors can’t explode, but they can produce explosive gases. It was a hydrogen explosion that blew apart the weather shell. The core remains intact.
A reactor doesn’t have to explode to emit radiation. It can irradiate the coolant which, when released into the atmosphere, carries it elsewhere.
The RBMK reactor at Chernobyl is MUCH more unsafe than the BWRs in Japan. The BWR isn’t as safe as an IFR (which Clinton ceased developing) or a pebble bed reactor, but it’s not unsafe.
An earthquake is the result of CONTINENTAL PLATES grinding or subducting against one another. If your misgiving about nuclear power is that an Earth shattering catastrophe might release some radiation, your emotional state needs to be questioned by a psychiatrist. This is about as rational as opposing nuclear reactors in submarines because they might get hit by a torpedo or depth charge some day. The radiation leak thus far is a problem, but not a catastrophe. And if it becomes a catastrophe, it’s part of life on planet Earth. We’re not going to evacuate Seattle-Tacoma because some day Mt. Ranier might blow its top. For that matter, what about the Yellowstone Supervolcano?
Pouring seawater in to cool the reactor was a last resort, but a last resort is not equivalent to an act of desperation. Desperation is an act which is unplanned, unconventional, untested, and unlikely to succeed. The seawater was known to be effective; it was always part of the plan.
It is true that pouring in seawater has killed the reactor.
Let’s all remember that San Franciso wasn’t destroyed in 1906 by an earthquake, but by the natural gas and wood fueled fires in the aftermath. It didn’t take a nuclear reactor to destroy a city.
It wasn’t nuclear energy that caused the explosion of Deepwater Horizon or Piper Alpha. The Texas City Refinery wasn’t using uranium.
We’re not likely to get the truth out of Japan. They have a history of covering up nuclear accidents. They have a perverse sense of maintaining the illusion of honor.
Very good article. If the MSM covered the issue with this kind of facts instead of fearmongering they couldn’t sell any advertizing.
“I love the smell of napalm in the morning”.
I wonder what Michael Moore will call his next film about the Japanese crisis. No doubt Bush is to blame, Al Gore is a saviour, gun owning Americans created additional deaths by default, and the peace loving Canadians help save Japan by taking in more African warlords as school janitors.
Japan and Haiti earthquakes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1m4HLNCRrs&feature=player_embedded
To add to POWinCA’s point, they’re using the seawater because the reactors there are old and about to be decommissioned (two of them were scheduled to be permanently shut down two weeks from now) so the company isn’t interested in saving them in working condition.
Also let’s remember that the near-record earthquake and the huge tsunami didn’t actually harm the reactors or their buildings and containment systems–all of the problems have been caused by problems with the diesel generators (or their fuel or lack of fuel) not running or sporadically running that were providing the juice to pump the water coolant and was caused by the tsunami not the quake.
If you read through all the threads at Ace of Spades HQ about it, there are several nuke engineers commenting on the situation that are worth a read through.
The major cause of death in this incident was the tsunami. We should be putting our attention to that. I propose that the city of Vancouver be immediately moved 100 kms inland and that all human habitation withing 30 kms of the coast in earthquake-prone areas be outlawed. /s
http://apetrov.wordpress.com/2011/03/12/what-is-happening-at-japans-fukushima-daiichi-power-plant/
Some good info at this site.
Regardless of the true risk it depends on how the Media plays it,reality or sensationalism.
If they decide to scream “Chernobyl” for the next six months, watch our politicians walk away from nuclear power and embrace those nice clean windmills.
And watch our energy bills go through the roof.
Small C
The leftwing radio here in Victoria, CFAX “News” radio, interviewed a true expert on nuclear energy Saturday, as the disaster was unfolding.
Lizard May…..
Such is the accuracy of ‘talk radio’ in this day and age…..
But if Godzilla drinks that radioactive water and mutates, that can’t be good, right?
Filtered.
http://urlm.in/hhkv
Some CNN host had a nuclear expert on yesterday or the day before, who tried patiently to explain the limited risks involved. The host became impatient when he couldn’t get the responses he wanted, and so brought the interview to a rapid close.
Larry at March 14, 2011 4:56 PM
These reactors DID survive “this level of Earthquake”, they were designed to. They weren’t designed to withstand the Tsunami.
Your snide about cancer etc. is just stupid.
I’m still waiting for the Katrina/ Haiti style looting to occur!
Where’s the looting?
Oprah told us the last time that looting/ raping events in a disaster of that size was natural to the human condition. What’s going on here?
Government officials admitted that it was “highly likely” the fuel rods in three separate reactors had started to melt despite repeated efforts to cool them with sea water. Safety officials said they could not rule out a full meltdown as workers struggled to keep temperatures under control in the cores of the reactors.
The Fukushima crisis now rates as a more serious accident than the partial meltdown at Three Mile Island in the US in 1979, and is second only to the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, according to the French nuclear safety authority. After insisting for three days that the situation was under control, Japan urgently appealed to US and UN nuclear experts for technical help on preventing white-hot fuel rods melting.
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said it was “unlikely” that the accident would turn into another Chernobyl, but failed to rule it out completely.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8382139/Japan-crisis-third-explosion-raises-spectre-of-nuclear-nightmare.html
In my opinion nobody, including those on the ground, know how bad this is … or can get. The only grain of information I’ve gathered that is reassuring (after reading all sources I could find), is that even in full meltdown, there likely won’t be a massive fire … which is what contaminated Chernobyl region so badly. Furthermore, the prevailing winds are almost always out of the West … which is very fortunate.
Kate
CNN obviously subscribes to the Don Henley School of Journalism…
We got the bubbleheaded bleach-blonde, comes on at 5
She can tell you about the plane crash with a gleam in her eye
It’s interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry
Can we film the operation? Is the head dead yet?
You know the boys in the newsroom got a running bet
Get the widow on the set, we need dirty laundry
At this moment there must be more than a few folks wishing they had more coal fired power plants providing electricity to their communities.
Farmer Bill … or Nat Gas which doesn’t spew heavy metals.
The situation may be worsening. They’ve had an explosion at the no.2 reactor (no.1 plant) There was an explosion at the suppression pool of the no. 2 reactor which may have vented the reactor, since they note a decrease in pressure. The suppression pool is connected to the reactor. They had a high radiation reading at the plant gate of over 8200 usievert, and they now believe the core in the no two reactor is melting. Apparently water pressure level is now too low too measure. Japan has now formally asked the US for help in cooling the reactors.
Dmorris: “If they decide to scream “Chernobyl” for the next six months, watch our politicians walk away from nuclear power and embrace those nice clean windmills”.
In Ont. they already have, except that the whirlygiggs don’t actually produce any significant power. They are extremely expensive and require backup capacity, gas or coal for calm days. Ont relies on nuclear for about 1/2 its energy, nothing will change this in the near future. Ont. has to make a rational economic choice among hydro, coal, gas and nuclear power sources. To pretend that solar and wind can replace these sources is to engage in green fantasy politics, not energy planning. The opportunity cost of not making the decisions will haunt Ont. taxpayers for decades.
Thanks, syncrodox, now I’m going to have that song in my head for days (there was nothing in there before).
My spouse, who imigrated to Canada from Japan is a bit irrate about the coverage coming from the MSM.
Since day one of this tragedy, we’ve been recieving NHK live and she tells me the difference between what is being broadcast on NHK and what is being offered as journalism from North American MSM is like night and day.
NHK = factual reporting using objective facts
NA MSM = bloviating, hyperbolic tabloid commentary intended to invoke fear and loathing.
Before anyone asks, been in touch with her family, they live far enough away from the event to be safe, sound and unaffected by this.
gimbol –
Your comments on NHK reporting vs. lamestream NA media all comes down to the fact that Japanese adults take serious things seriously, whereas NA journalists are just hacks looking out for their career and nothing else. Of course it doesn’t help that NA journalists at the national level are almost uniformly complete morons, to boot.
What the experts are saying will likely prove to be true unless a meteorite falls from the sky, series of gross human error, another tsunami, earthquake, volcanic and/or other devastating explosion that seriously damages the currently intact cores.
It’s not difficult to imagine that the Japanese are thinking anything is possible given the current string of disasters they have endured over the last few days and are likely emotionally vulnerable and hyper vigilant.
National geographic is tastelessly not letting a good disaster go to waste either and is actively promoting their latest documentary that contends that Atlantis was destroyed by a Tsunami.
While I agree that there is most certainly a high degree of sensationalism in the media with the multiple reports of impending nuclear “meltdowns” and the controlled releases of steam mixed with radiation into the atmosphere that has resulted in explosions, I can also understand the skepticism people have in what the experts have said.
Although rare, history reminds us that design, planning flaws and other human oversights have resulted in disaster. There have been bridge collapses, oil and gas explosions, dams not holding, and of course the famous unsinkable Titanic come to mind.
That being said, I abhor the fact that the MSM and most other media outlets are capitalizing on the uncertainty and lack of knowledge most of the public has by exploiting an already vulnerable population’s fears.
Lucky Lori
Well said.
Let us all remember as well that Three Mile Island was a frickin’ tempest in a teapot. This business in Japan is “worse” because of the larger release of steam, but as reported elsewhere no one was ever able to prove -any- health effects from the Three Mile Island “disaster”.
What we are seeing right now is two things. First, really good response from the Japanese authorities. Second, a full-on, world wide media psychotic break. They’ve gone completely mad with this thing. Mad. Whacky. Looney tunes.
The part that counts is the containment vessels. None of them have broken, despite three hydrogen explosions. And they probably won’t.
Neither would Pickering, Darlington or Bruce under the same circumstances. But you may be sure the frickin’ panic whipped up would get thousands of people killed as 4 million poor propagandized suckers in Toronto scrambled over each other trying to get away.
Today’s MSM, potentially even more dangerous than our government.
Knight 99 @ 7;12, you forgot to mention Harper’s complicity in this earthquake/Tsunami occurrence when he declined to comment Canada to the Copenhagen fraud.
I appreciate the intelligent comments on this thread about the nuclear problem potential.
My wife and I were in our hotel room on the 21st floor on Thursday evening in a Waikiki hotel at about 9 pm local time packing for the Friday am return flight to Calgary. I suddenly felt some tremors and said that I thought there was a slight earthquake happening. She did not feel it as she was busy packing. The TV was not on.
I then went down to the ground floor and noticed a small crowd of people congregated around a television. There was live video coming in showing the Tsunami waters flowing. Some what must have been Japanese tourists were making phone calls and looked quite concerned.
Not long after this the first Tsunami siren in Honolulu blared and police cars were going up and down the streets near the beach area telling people to go to higher ground. Hotel staff said that a wave of 3 to 6 feet was expected.
The first three floors of many of the hotels were evacuated later to higher floors as a precaution, as well as a residential area toward Diamond Head was also evactuated. The water heaters also must have been turned off.
Police cruisers with loudspeakers patrolled until just before the expected 3:00 am wave effect. Helicopters with searchlights patrolled the beach all night long.
Unbelievably, there were people walking along the beach in the limited light of the street lights. Many of the homeless people that hang around along this beach and park areas also did not appear to leave, nor did anyone seem to be forcing them to leave.
Ships seemed to be leaving the harbour and in the morning we could see hundreds of vessels of all sizes including a large cruise ship anchored offshore.
It turned out that the waves maxed out at 3 feet and only one hotel received 1 foot of water. We could see water rising and receding. We did not see a wall of water like what the videos from Japan show.
The island of Kauai had considerable damage and we could see debris in the ocean from our WestJet aircraft. Apparently two men on a Kauai beach were washed out to sea.
The local emergency measures organization appeared to be quite efficient and we were impressed.
“The part that counts is the containment vessels. None of them have broken, despite three hydrogen explosions. And they probably won’t.”
This is no longer certain. NHK is presently reporting significantly increased radiation levels outside the plant. Roofs of three suppression pools have now blown off apparently, and there is a concern the reactor vessels are now venting steam or liquid in some unknown quantities (not believed to be controlled releases. Reactor no. 2’s core remains apparently uncovered. People living within the 20-30km zone are advised to remain indoors with air condition off.
Ken (Kulak)>
I’m south of Japan a ways in Indonesia (Borneo) at the moment. Not a ripple off the ocean when the tsunami was supposed to arrive (was waiting/ watching).
Originally scheduled to go to Hawaii in Feb but cancelled in protest of the groping TSA goon squads. Any trouble for yourself?
When you plan and design a piece of equipment, like a nuclear reactor, to withstand an earthquake, and you are an island nation, placing the reactor close to the sea, planning for the tsunami has to be part of the overall design.
As is back up electrical supply, too.
Japanese nuclear engineers don’t typically graduate from the University of Arizona, gee whiz guys.
The reason for issuing iodine tablets is to prevent uptake of radioactive iodine into the thyroid. That will produce a significant increase in thyroid cancer. Radioactive iodine has a short half life but avoiding it is standard procedure and effective with the tablets.
As to radiation and cancer, a friend of mine, was an epidemiologist in the Tri-State leukemia study in the
1960s. It is why each new design and X-ray protocol tries to minimize radiation exposure. Leukemia has a relatively short
latency period and so it shows up quicker in surveys. The calculations are more complex now but accepted as a risk factor in exposing people in medical procedures.
Radiation and genetic mutation is old news. Agriculture even used it in the 1950s.
The Phantom
[……..But you may be sure the frickin’ panic whipped up would get thousands of people killed as 4 million poor propagandized suckers in Toronto scrambled over each other trying to get away.
Today’s MSM, potentially even more dangerous than our government……..]
Believe it I had about a dozen e-mails back and forth to an associate in GTA(York)…a recently laid off cubicle inmate…..who follows all the health food fads….was desperately seeking Potasium Iodide pills….
This urbanite who we have led astry—he owns firearms now— was stampeded bigtime by the MSM. He cited a site which referred to Chernobyle as 3-4 time worse than TMI and that “China Syndrome” was accepted science.
I used all my experience gained from Psy-ops to calm him down……he did react badly (as planned) when I advised him that this old frame farm house sustained no damage from the earth-quake…..he had responded angrily before hsi own logic about the earth-quake being too far distant….when it occurred to him that news of radiation leaks was just news….like a distant battle/war.
It must be something about the urban environment, perhaps the air, that makes these urbanites so gullible…….yeah propagandized to be sure.
All this hysteria is a desperate last ditch effort to totally arrest any nuclear power.
What agravates me is the way the quake/tsunami damage and death toll is suppressed by the nuclear hysteria.
Knight 99
[……..Oprah told us the last time that looting/ raping events in a disaster of that size was natural to the human condition. What’s going on here?…..]
Evidence that the colourful denizens of New Orleans are really 3rd world savages…..and Oprah is a female version of Mugabbe….
Regarding the looting – i don’t think there’s anything left to loot.
Regarding the MSM – I caught Lisa Laflamme describe the reactor building explosion as a “Mushroom Cloud” on the news tonight. Freakin unbelievable. They SO much want this thing to blow sky high and spew radiation all over the globe.
Here’s a good link on reactor design and operation – written for a lay person.
http://miltonconservative.blogspot.com/2011/03/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans.html
Knight 99, no, no groping or anything approaching fondling on the flight in or out. No new fangled Xray either. Just the normal taking off of shoes and going through the old scan arches. I guess we just looked like harmless old prairie farmers. Good thing I left my John Deere cap home.
We will not soon forget that experience. For a few hours we had visions of having a somewhat extended stay in Hawaii.
I’ve received information from a friend in Tokyo. He is safe and will continue his journey as most of Japan is fine. Everyone there is upset with the North American newsmedia for sensationalizing things and causing areas that are perfectly safe to lose tourism.
Apparently, the reactor backup generators where located in the basement of the building. It’s nearby protective seawall was only designed for ordinary storms.
Perhaps, I was wrong. The engineers may have studied at a university in the desert somewhere. The Electrical company executives may soon be found hanging from the nearest trees by their neckties.