… or is it regressive education:
Saskatoon’s public high school students will no longer be penalized for plagiarism or for turning in assignments late under a new evaluation method for report cards.
Some educational experts are critical of the move — an apparent first for Saskatchewan — saying it creates an uneven playing field for students in other parts of the province.
That’s funny. In Ontario they just got rid of no penalty late assignments because students were taking advantage of it and handing all their homework in late.
That ought to prepare them even more for the real world. Hell, they can’t spell or use correct grammer anymore – no sense expecting them to be on time with an assignment they actually put some work in to.
They’re mentoring an entire new generation of welfare cases.
Early apprenticeships toward depending on government welfare, because they’ll be unemployable in the real world.
Haha. As a student who was always first in the class, I can tell you exactly how I would have reacted to this.
I’d have organized all the other intelligent people in the class…done all my assignments all year long, and then handed them all in on the last day.
Mid term report cards don’t mean much when you can hand in your work as late as you choose. But this opens up a Pandora’s box. Can a student submit their assignments for grade 10 when they are in grade 12 and have their marks adjusted accordingly?
No problem Mr. Smith, we’ll get that ruptured appendix out of you, well, . . . you know . . . whenever.
I’m currently taking a master’s level course online. Quoting my professor:
“If you have any questions about your participation, please consult the grading rubric before contacting me. However, in general, to receive full credit you must meet the discussion board requirements for the week by the deadlines indicated. I know there are many legitimate reasons for missing these deadlines, and I make no judgments about any choices you make. But to receive participation points, you must participate in the timeframe required.”
Makes sense to me.
” saying it creates an uneven playing field for students ”
Of course this will be corrected by allowing ALL students province-wide to hand in late assignments.
“As long as a student hands in an assignment at some point, no marks are docked. The same applies to students caught plagiarizing.”
mecheng
I’d have organized all the stupid and lazy people to pay you or your smart friend for your “A” paper and we’d photo copy and submit it.
Of course I’d have to keep a little admin fee.
“Haha. As a student who was always first in the class, I can tell you exactly how I would have reacted to this.”
In my school, every single student would have handed in the relevant pages from “Coles Note’s”, photocopied, LATE.
Do they not realize how freaking dumb this is?
“Grammer.”
Was that supposed to be ironic?
If there are no penalties for plagiarism, does this mean that all copyright and patent laws are equally invalid?
Does this mean that the inventors, who have put a great deal of time and money into the research, can no longer get those costs back, via a patent for a new electronic technology, a new drug, a new medical machine, a new source of energy, a new computer..etc.?
Does this mean that original literary, musical, film productions and other intellectual property will no longer be protected? No royalties? No requirement to list authors? You can insert your own name as author?
Ho.Ly.F***.
You know, my dad used to tell me when I was a kid (and this is from a staunch trade-unionist) that the government was trying to make people stupid (thus, easier to control). I didn’t believe him then, but I sure believe him now. It’s amazing how smart my dad actually was/is (on some things, anyway), but it took me until I reached my mid-30s before I started to realise it. Now that I’m in my 40s, he seems quite the oracle.
“The same applies to students caught plagiarizing.”
Uhhh excuse me? If you do not punish the mindless theft and regurgitation of other’s intellect you are conditioning students not to think for themselves – not to mention encouraging unethical behaviour.
No wonder the Liberal youth wing has no shortage of unethically conditioned larvae.
Students should be renamed Future Union Employees United. Progressive public schools are teaching kids to work like public sector unions – hard work does not pay and, no matter how badly you behave, there are no consequences.
Standardized testing should be required for all post-secondary education since the official high school marks are meaningless. Engineering Techs at SIAST are/were required to do aptitude and skills training. That practice should be expanded to prevent unfair advantage to graduates of progressive education centers.
I’d say the government and parents should step in to prevent this and future moronic ideas but it’ll never happen – government doesn’t have the cojones and parents are intimidated by the system. It’s every parent for themselves these day if they want to ensure an adequate education for their children.
FATHER – / – DAUGHTER
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many othrs her age, she considered herself to be very liberal, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words redistribution of wealth.
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch conservative, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs.
The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn’t even have time for a boyfriend, and didn’t really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, “How is your friend Audrey doing?”
She replied, “Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She’s always invited to all the parties and lots of times she doesn’t even show up for classes because she’s too hung over.”
Her wise father asked his daughter, “Why don’t you go to the Dean’s office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.”
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father’s suggestion, angrily fired back, “That’s a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I’ve worked really hard for my grades! I’ve invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!”
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, “Welcome to the conservative side of the fence.”
FATHER – / – DAUGHTER
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many othrs her age, she considered herself to be very liberal, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words redistribution of wealth.
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch conservative, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs.
The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn’t even have time for a boyfriend, and didn’t really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, “How is your friend Audrey doing?”
She replied, “Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She’s always invited to all the parties and lots of times she doesn’t even show up for classes because she’s too hung over.”
Her wise father asked his daughter, “Why don’t you go to the Dean’s office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.”
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father’s suggestion, angrily fired back, “That’s a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I’ve worked really hard for my grades! I’ve invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!”
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, “Welcome to the conservative side of the fence.”
A few Saturday’s ago I asked my daughter when her first assignment of the year was due; because, I saw her working on it previously. She said “Monday Dad” to which I responded “I want you back at noon on Sunday (from a sleep-over) so you can finish on time”. On Sunday morning my wife saw on her Swipes binder, in bold, that the assignment was due last Friday(two days ago).
As you can imagine, we were pi$$ed and challenged my daughter about being late on her first assignment. She proceeded to tell us that as per her teacher “It DOESN’T MATTER if the assignment is late because there will be not penalty”. Also, she she told us that she “knew” that we (Mom & Dad) would not care what her teacher said, and she “knew” that we would not have let her out that weekend regardless of the school rules. She was right! She was grounded for a week for lying, and now must submit an up to date record of all assignments and due dates; because obviously cannot manage it herself.
BTW, we live in S’toon.
@ K Stricker – yes, ‘grammer’ was supposed to be totally and completely ironic! Of course I know it is spelled ‘grammar’.
Ok, I have fat fingers.. and a brain cramp.
RE: my above story.
Now we can hold my daughter responsible for this irresponsible behaviour; but not that much. She is being taught by her so called “role models” (teachers) that this is normal behaviour. Now many of us have opined as to why we think that is; ACM’s father sums it up nicely. I can only hope that the values instilled at home and in extra curricular sports will be enough to counter the assault being waged on my kid’s educations.
The inevitable result of such a policy is the demonization and abuse of those that do wish to accomplish their tasks on time and with excellence. I implore parents of school aged kids to lookout for your kids at school. Don’t leave them alone and defenceless to those drive-sucking indoctrination centers.
Let’s hope they have so-called meaningless jobs at fast food places where they can learn the value of responsibility and timeliness – and get paid!
Yep, a mcdonalds’s manager is all that’s standing between these poor kids and the debilitating effect of the educational system.
I used to say that every school district bureaucrat could be fired without affecting the quality of education in Saskatchewan.
I have just been proved right. The quality of education in this province continues its slide to irrelevancy.
What a pack of idiots…
I can just imagine the malls in Saskatoon are flooded with kids trying to find some Coles Notes for the next school year. On the other hand thay could just wait, copy it from another student and hand it in at the end of the year. Home schooling looks better everyday…
What should be evaluated first is the late deposit of paycheques – without penalty – for the board, administrators and some teachers. If they don’t see a problem with tardiness, then they can try it out in the classroom.
Keep our citizens dumb and semi-literate and they’ll vote sociaists/liberal for the rest of their lives. What an appalling policy, more lunacy from our marxists betters.
I always handed in my plagiarized assignments late. I was docked marks and sometimes got a zero. Does this mean I can apply for a reassessment of my grades? That could mean I may qualify to be accepted to a credible university. That would be great if they had the same standard there. I could even get a degree under this system.
Much of the school systems in most provinces are
run by the provincial governments, and are staffed
with the usual bureaucrats. Hence a provincial government can bear down on these issues. There is
little need for a conservative government to put
up with this pernicious leftist nonsense. One of the few but major mistakes
Mike Harris made in Ontario was to take on the teachers but not walk the block or so to the
Department of Education and do a little rectification right then and there.
There actually are “educational experts”, mostly independent consultants who
fly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction dispensing leftist goodies as they go.
David Warren’s article this week (http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/) is very much on topic:
a radical solution for a profound problem.
Kathryn – yours is the correct approach. Stop the paychecks to the irresponsible teachers, school board and all people associated with education. If they have no qualms about no value for $$ spent then they should have, by default, quit.
BTW, when I was in school I had to repeat a programming class. I actually felt guilty about turning in my assignment from the year before. Times change.
One of the many reasons I shell out extra so my kids don’t get steeped in ‘regressive anti-civilizational nonsense’.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
Kathryn might have the correct approach, but not the one that will be used.
The trend today seems to be setting different academic criteria based on social factors. For example, kids in poor neighborhoods should be graded on an easier criteria to “level the playing field”.
Sometimes I thank the gawd I don’t believe in that my kids are not white, or boys.
This short video from The Onion seems very relevant (language warning):
http://www.theonion.com/video/in-the-know-are-tests-biased-against-students-who,17966/
The argument in favour of separating marks for academic achievement and for behaviour (participation, lateness, sloppiness, insolence, etc.) has merit. The problem is that the school needs alternate means to encourage good behaviour. Learning to be punctual is important; playing nicely with others is an important skill to learn before going out into the world, but neither should influence how we judge the merit of a history essay or a biology test.
well hell, this is great news. Im headed off to university next year when the free retiree tuition kicks in.
Im truly looking forward for the trend to catch up to this part of the world sose I can catch up to all the partying I missed back in the 70s when it was all hard slogging and my friend Jack the wiz kid wrote a program on the VAX 11/780 that scanned for similarities in the frequency of variable names in comp sci assignments looking for plagiarism.
jeezuz murphy what is the world/Canuckistan/the edjukashun cystem coming to ?????
on the other hand, what’s to stop a given instructor from waiting til the last day of classes to return the assignments and release the mark?
no penalties for plagiarism. are any of these education authorities part of the grafitti gangs that plague cities with the view that every square inch of unadorned surface belongs to everyone and therefore it is not wrong to ‘customize’ it?
pirated digital media rampant, gluttonous greed on wall street, 3rd world shytholes holding the developed world at ransom with some new twist in the WTO, etc etc. it’s like that old joke of winnowing down the productive tax paying members of society to one’s self.
we live in interesting times.
Remember Blockbuster’s “No Late Fees” policy and how it led to them going Chapter-11? Well, if the guy selling DVDs in the alley behind Blockbuster had the same policy, this is what you’d get.
I have relatives who are teachers and let me tell you that if they ran things, this wouldn’t even be a discussion. Why this is even a discussion now stuns me. A student is lazy for either cheating or not turning in his assignment (special circumstances for lateness not withstanding). He should not be rewarded.
Start privatizing more schools or home school. Cut funding to greedy school boards. Either they take a stand against this nonsense or hit them in the wallet muscle.
@beagle: In my old college town, there was a store near the university that sold comic books, Japanese animation, and other harajuku sorts of things. Big market in the university community, especially since it was a heavy comp sci/tech place, lots of geeks. He closed down after two years and was quite publicly loud about the reason: he couldn’t make money selling or renting things to students that they could and would pirate for free from the Internet. I saw students in the store picking up stuff they were interested in and taking pictures of it with their cell phone cameras so they would know what to look up on the pirate sites when they got back to the dorm. They weren’t even self-conscious about it, they’d do it right in front of the proprietor. When I asked a couple of them whether they thought this might not be entirely ethical, never mind legal, I’d either get a spew of deeply confused dribble about “rights” and the “evil RIAA/MPAA/DMCA”, or else they’d look at me like I’d just suggested that wearing purple on a Tuesday was illegal.
Sadly, these are the people who are going on to work in the software industry, which lives and dies by IP law.
Pace Knight 99, a lot of them supported themselves by selling web design services to local businesses; I often wished I had the time to swipe some of their designs wholesale and use them somewhere they’d find out about it, just to see how they like it.
The big problem here is monopoly: what business can you name that is guaranteed revenue, regardless of what they do to the product? When that’s the case, they can do what they want, regardless of who objects.
Be interesting to hear the TRUSTEES’ comments on this.
Btw, how does Saskatoon high schoolers academic achievement compare to other cities?
“my dad used to tell me when I was a kid (and this is from a staunch trade-unionist) that the government was trying to make people stupid”
People are born stupid, not much sharper than a pingpong ball.
We’re supposed to get sharper through education and experience, either our own or learning from the experiences of others.
The government is trying to prevent both ways of rising above our born state and charge us for that prevention.
Nanny says sharp things are dangerous.
“Why this is even a discussion now stuns me.”
OSU
Because those in education that are of a like mind with you and I are “on the take” for lack of a better term; and they keep their mouths shut!
I’ve mentioned before that there is a clear conflict of interest for the Teachers Union. That conflict being: what’s good for their bottom-line vs. what’s good for the student. It’s unreasonable to expect individuals to vote themselves less $$ in a trade-off for better output. The police force suffers this same conflict IMO.
“what business can you name that is guaranteed revenue,”
The Maple Leafs, hence the lack of motive to produce a winning product.
Hey Teacher. Let me know when you’re done marking the assignments so I can copy off somebody with an “A” alright? Or you could save yourself the work of grading the same paper twice and just give me the “A” now. Your choice.
Be late for working for me, and you get a quickly diminishing view of the tailgate of my Quadcab…..
Back in the days home assignments were done written by hand and researched in books from the library and were expected to be handed in on time.
Today with computers, cut and paste, printers and all the latest tech the poor little deer’s gets a break.
People, people, the remand centers can’t handle the flow of homework. Think of the union.
Inoitall – I’ve heard of schools not correcting spelling errors, never mind deducting marks, because it wouldn’t be fair to the kids who don’t have a computer. How we managed to learn to spell back in the dark ages when all we had were dictionaries I’ll never know.
These are hard to control children to listen they are act more bully and take their freedom seriously
These are three issue each not link with others
behaviour problmes of children who smoke seen look like outside of high school but still consider neighbor to school or drinking in thier birthday party or put gel in their hair style or dress reveal too much skin or use F language or get quick angry… all behaviour problmes need a class two hour per week to review some decipline and being organized and teach them class of talk is beneficial to children in past used relgion course now can be use ethic behaviour control course
regard to not do their home work all home work must done in time frame of school I guess
when adult are working when come home they do rest and enjoy their time why not children
if home work needed all must done in school not by help of parents or tudors etc…
Nobody as adult go on time every day except all office work employee or army people and these group their children are neat and do every thing on time farme which is good we need a group to office work and has deadline or buss may come late or all work laziness increased but even adult do not do every day on time at least 3 day must ask do and 2 day get free
put class using new laptop with camera or use
iphone 4 who can see the children and they can listen to teacher while they are in home
saswan are more farmer who are do job free or do any time they want i guess and their children are not do any thing on time or may too far from school
in most cases drinking and smoking weed and bad bahvaiour or depresion or bad nutrion may cause kids are not wake up on time and need boost by parents to help them I guess
still smart gifted children need higher level for world competition
and good future employee should not be bully or lazy
therefore if you grow lazy children they end up lazy adult too
good for adventurer kid who like and smart to certain job they are intersted in majority
school need law and rules to obey
made school like fun and entertainment not boring they are come on time for sure
children who like to learn get wasted if they go among lazy children to the same school
USe private school or tutodor is good too to take more concentration higher mark and few student one teacher to ask any question they wish for and use their time better but is expensive
at least $ 500 / each course
Sounds like this idea makes it easier on the teachers. Could that be the reasoning behind this?
Speedy – that is the ticket – the failures produced in the schools, people(students used as objects) who keep the indoctrination educators with fat pay/pension checks from graduation to grave are the same objects that the ‘education’ crowd use to pass on to their union friends in social services. Keeping each other in the business of NO Value for $$ spent.
Some ‘businesses’, like Cancer, MS, Global Warming, Haiti….depend on failure for job security. The hierarchy of ‘make work’ is based on the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ model. From experience, I believe that the union freaks in the public services use this policy to keep themselves ‘in business’.
http://www.sasksciencenetwork.ca/Competitions.aspx
11 Aug 2010 … “Students from over 80 countries will shortly be arriving in Waterloo for the 22nd annual International Olympiad in Informatics,” said …
Science Competitions – Saskatchewan Science Network
The Canadian Chemistry and Physics Olympiads organization aims to identify pre-university … students with an opportunity to test their knowledge and understanding of biology.University of Waterloo Sir Isaac Newton Exam (SIN) …
Canada wins medals in math olympiad | News, Media, and Events …
Canada competed for the first time in the Olympiad, held recently in VeszprŽm, Hungary. … The competition gave the students an opportunity to test their ability in … The Canadian team was sponsored by Sybase Inc. of Waterloo. …
Don’t let this go unanswered. nip it in the bud. This is how Alberta schools started down an ugly road 40 years ago. It took 20 to make it right again. The way to stop this is private schools. Plus making homeschooling. Not only a choice but the proffered one.
Scare the public system silly. To the point where even public schools in Alberta have charter outlets.
Now as to curriculum , that needs a massive overhaul considering the architects where socialists. We all know how knowledgeable communists are on human nature?
Oh yeah bring back Latin. Take the power from DRs & Lawyers.