*
Also, today’s required reading.
Update: Looks like everyone got what they wanted – submission! Sure glad that’s over, so that moderate Islam can get back to its regular enforcement schedule.
I hope you all enjoyed the spectacle of western world leaders stepping up to display their sharia compliance bona fides as much as I did. “Don’t do it or they’ll hurt us.”
We’re all so much safer for it, yes?
Following is my (slightly edited) emailed response to a friend in media, who remarked privately, “like i said kate..the whole so called principled stand was a hoax”…
I don’t care if Mickey Mouse had sparked the controversy. The issue is the reaction of our political and media betters.
Shameful and frankly, frightening. As one of my commentors just remarked, “Islam has now been officially sanctioned as the most powerful religion on earth and if we offend it they can kill us and we deserve to be killed.”
They should have kept their mouths shut, at the very least. They have an obligation to defend our constitutionally protected rights to freedom of expression.
Instead, they have telegraphed to barbarians – some of whom have the arsenals to do real damage – that they will cow into submission the acts of even the most lowly and unimportant of our citizens to avoid confrontation.
Indeed, the fact that it WAS this fringey pastor who set this international incident off is the most disturbing aspect of all. Unlike the flag burners and bible burners and crucifix defilers that number in the tens of thousands, he did nothing but state an intention. And look at the force they brought down on him to prevent it.
I am disgusted with Harper, Obama and yes John Gormley who took this opportunity dump all over a “Christian” who proposed to do what has happened more times than you can count through military actions over the past 8 years!!
Oh but given the opportunity to trash some inconsequential “Christian” and western mind molesters fall all over themselves with risk-less rage to condemn.
I feel so protected!!
We’re all so much safer for it, yes?
Oh yes, Kate. I also think it’s timely to establish a national HRC in the U.S., so that “reasonable limitations” can be placed on that pesky First Amendment to make sure nobody ever has any reason to feel hurt or offended or anything else that might result in understandable mayhem and mass murder by the aggrieved.
The burning’s back on except now it’s the Phelps clan of idiots at the Westboro Church.
http://www.ocala.com/article/20100909/ARTICLES/100909743/1412?Title=Westboro-Baptish-Church-to-burn-Qurans-if-Dove-doesn-t
@Davenport
>>But then it comes as no surprise that SDA attracts extremists of its own sort.
I was gonna dispute that. But then I realized, “Hey! *you’re* here…”
In all honesty i hope they cancel or move the mosk on account of the pastor not burning the korans and someone else deos it anyway …just to give the muzzies a taste of there own medicine .
Instead of burning the koran I should see if I can get a government Art Grant to put it in an aquarium full of gin.
I could title it:
Ginned Up Outrage!
I,m as disgusted as you Kate. If not ashamed of our PM with others groveling with barley suppressed, Cowardice. fear , submission to this tribe of Barbarians. Even People like Rutherford or Adler, who know better sounded in full panic mode. This Pastor already won. His whole point was to show how much people have submitted to Islamic sharia.
After Israel gave Gaza back did that stop Muslim depredations? Where please tell me from any appeasement of Islam, in any form has stopped them killing anywhere or anytime they want?
Thats always the threat. Don’t criticize us, or we will continue to kill you. Yet they still do!! No matter what the humiliation they whip our politicians into doing like circus seals.
Its time to stand up to this death cult. Not give in to ever more small ways, till before you know it, the knives of “allah the mercilerss” psychotic maniacs. Kisses your neck with the tool of your conversion. Convert or die or better both kaffur.
We are losing the war. Where to weak with to much corruption paid to folks here to keep silent . With an MSM of such ignorance ,one wonders if they can even write freehand. An entitled Elite now thinks our lives are owned by them, our money theirs, property,schooling,job,even what you should think.
Harper lost today. He just doesn’t know it. They all did. We all apparently don’t matter in our own Nation.
By the way I figure this Pastor did this as a show. It may have tarted a hustle, it ended up showing an ugly reality.
After all we may bug some death cultist.
There is a tradition started in the Bible where people sell worldly goods, or burn occult objects to deny the devil publicly. The Nazis perverted it of course. It was an individual act.
This devil was appeased. This devil will come back more fierce!!!
JMO
Well said Kate. Hear hear! Truth to power.
Regardless of your opinion of either Jones or his convictions to his faith and country, there is no denying he got results.
This demonstrates that in an era filled with the intolerance of belligerent atavist tribalistic aggression, the lib left idea of ‘talking’ your way out of a fight has has limited results with a thug intent on destroying both you and your culture just for the sheer villainous pleasure of doing it.
Yes, it’s sad we have to resort to the type of display Jones used to mark a clear line in the sand for culturally deviant extremism.
However, it is sadder yet that in this day and age of social enlightenment that we must deal with societal and cultural forces who detest iur culture so deeply that symbolically desecrating a national “holy site” could become such a collective priority for their tribal diaspora.
Sadder yet are those with no “tribe” nor the will to defend it against open aggression. Saddest are those who think there is no principle righteous enough to be worth fighting for.
I say good for Terry Jones for having the brains to know where this diasporic barbaric anti-US-anti-Christian-Antisemetic effrontery is weakest and having the strength of conviction to strike a decisive blow against it while our “leadership?” and elite sat in dissolute intimidated inaction.
“A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”
— John Stuart Mill
In fact the more I think about it, the more I think that the pastor backing down is a pretty frightening sign.
Terrorists win again.
This will only be a victory if Jones and others use it as a juxtaposition, but then what media would carry it?
Well…eat my words…there I go commenting before linking.
Brian Lilley nails it!!
The libs had a jolly old hissy fit over this. I am reminded of a rather tasteless joke many years ago. This was about the elderly lady complaining about seeing a naked man undressing in front of a window across the way.
Quoth she “I nearly fell off my step ladder, when I climbed up to check on this rude man.”.
I liked the analogy on the Hannity show about the burning of Sarah Palin’s church and the lack of media outrage.
I listen to the radio program from across the river in Michigan. For weeks and weeks a voice intones of an act of arson against a mosque in Jacksonville, Florida. It is a minutes blurb for and on behalf of the FBI. Looking for information on the man. Some fool had a minor attempt with a “pipe bomb” against the outside wall. Little damage, thank goodness. The sentence could be ten years to life, for this man. Again, what a damn idiot! With the climate of appeasement this he would get. For what?
Yet this is all they have after the May 11th last attempt. It keeps on being repeated every day.
The libs must titillated and ready to work up their induced hysteria. Do they think that the radicals of Islam with LIKE them even more?.
I’m watching my own 88 year old father slowly “disappear into” Alzheimer’s disease and it is very sad,
but it is also very sad to watch my own civilization disappear – slowly fade away – to watch it die before my very eyes.
And we have liberals to thank for that.
click
For the past 9 years, I have been arguing that the question isn’t “Why do they hate us?”
The question is “Why don’t they fear us?”
The answer – as our political and media betters (as Kate calls them) have demonstrated over the past week – is that we have repeatedly proven ourselves gaspingly eager to surrender what are supposedly our most deeply-held principles at the first sign of a threat. We are – as King Julian put it in ‘Madagascar’ – a bunch of giant pansies.
Or as the late Osama Bin Liner put it, we are a weak horse. We prove it, again and again, every time that they push us.
Why didn’t Obama, or Harper, or Petraeus, or any one of the other blathering mouthpieces who opened their pie-holes on this issue take the pains to point out that while this moron in Florida was planning on burning a book, Muslims in France burn hundreds of cars every night, while Muslims in Saudi Arabia burn teenaged girls? Muslims in Africa burn churches, Muslims in Iran stone women to death or hang 13-year-olds from construction cranes for the crime of being “rude to an Imam”. When Muslims in Afghanistan aren’t buggering teen-aged boys, they’re killing schoolgirls with explosives, acid and poison gas. All of this is being done in the name of Islam. If any of our so-called betters expressed one-tenth as much discomfort at the disgusting, heart-rending cargo of human suffering that is being perpetrated in the name of Islam as they have at the burning of the book that contains its precepts, I might feel a sense of hope for our civilization. If they said one goddamned word about the Costco-sized beam in Islam’s eye instead of waxing rhapsodic about the microscopic mote in our own, I might feel a little optimism.
But they have not – and so I do not.
And as for the thoroughly specious argument that burning a Koran will further endanger our troops in Afghanistan – that is absolute rot, and an officer like Petraeus (who is not an idiot, and whose COIN strategy I have studied and written on at length) should be ashamed of himself for uttering it. The notion that the Taliban and their fellow ‘despicable murderers and scumbags’ are holding forces in reserve, to be committed to battle in the event of a provocation by some thick-wit in Florida, is patently ludicrous. The enemy is already operating at maximum capacity. He is already murdering all of the children he can. He is already torturing and beheading everyone he catches. This will affect the frequency, ferocity and likelihood of terrorist attacks, whether here at home or against our forces abroad, not one bloody whit.
What this idiot pastor was planning to do was distasteful, if only because burning books is not what WE do; it’s what THEY do. But it was not illegal, and moreover it was not even the point. The point is that if the members of a religion are ready to commit bloody-fisted mayhem because one of their books is burned, then the problem is with the religion, not the book burner.
And it’s also with us. Radicalized Muslims are willing to kill us because some process of encouragement (we used to call it a ‘failure of deterrence’) has led them to that believe that they can. If these crazies – both individual and state-based – were confronted, chastised, punished and/or killed every time they acted like murderous maniacs – instead of being appeased, as is our current practice – then they would stop acting like maniacs.
Or to put it in terms that horse breeding afficionados like Kate doubtless despise, if you keep shooting the horses that can’t jump the fence, eventually you find one that can. Or you run out of horses.
Applied to our current circumstances, either outcome would be a win. But we’re not going to get there under the limp-wristed leadership of the giant pansies who are currently serving as the elected spokesmen of Western civilization.
Absolutely NO ONE in the media, on talk radio, on Sirius Patriot ch.144 would back the Pastor. He’s been called everything from a redneck to a hillbilly, but no one seems to recognize the need to stand up here to the same muslim aggression already well advanced in England and France. Ah well, we got the politically correct result we wanted…minimal offense and no ruffled feathers…everybody back to sleep now…
So were the hijackers on 9/11 carrying their holy book with them to a firey furnace? And how many Qu’rans were immolated in the twin towers? It seems to me that radical Islamists have torched more books than the reverend planned to use in his publicity stunt.
“Obama Sends Best Wishes to Muslims for Eid-al-Fitr
Voice of America”
(googlenews)
…-
Meanwhile, back at the front: the Muslim scimitar strikes/hacks. Again. Again. And …..
“in an attack that bore the hallmark of insurgents,(sic)”.
“Sunni cleric beheaded and set on fire
Gunmen stormed the house of a Sunni cleric on Thursday and cut his head off before setting him alight in an attack that bore the hallmark of insurgents, a police spokesman said.”
“In a separate attack on Thursday, four men wearing women’s clothes entered the house of a policeman in a village northwest of Baquba, the Diyala capital, and beheaded his wife when they failed to find the officer, an interior ministry source said.”
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2010/09/09/15299136.html
Today I feel just like Charlton Heston’s character in Planet of the Apes where, after being caught by the primates declared “This world is upside down”.
We have defeated ourselves.
I am glad I am old. I won’t be around to watch everyone’s ass in up in the air praying to a mythical monster.
‘Splain this … we have thousands of soldiers over there killing those bastards and that’s okay, but to burn a book over here all hell breaks loose.
What’s up with that?
It would be nice if the authorities paid as much attention to the Muslims mosques in America as they did to David Koresh and his group.
@ Abe ‘Swine’ Froman:
Don’t tell me you’ve fallen for that pigs & monkey’s tripe. I’m putting the ‘Swine’ back in your handle 🙂
Defeated? Not by a long shot…
WWII resulted in some 61 million dead Allied of combined military and civilian deaths. I don’t think we’re anywhere close to those numbers since 9/11. And there was a hell of a lot more burning then…than mere books.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
What’s everyone all hot and bothered about?
I think we should evolve the phrase ‘celebrate our cultural diversity’ to ‘celebrate north american cultural genocide’
Just sit back and enjoy the ride..
Before, I was agin’ it. Now I want it to happen, because backing off at this point will be interpreted as submission. You came up with this gesture, Jonesy, so follow through.
Knight99,
In keeping with what I wrote earlier, I am posting here to tell you that I mostly agree with everyone else here.
However, I find this does not make me feel content, so I will do the only thing I know.
“If not – every Muslim in the US needs to be deported immediately!”
Alright.
But to deport them, we have to have legal grounds to deport them (or else we can deport any US citizen on a whim).
In order to do so, the US government would have to ban Islam.
However, the US constitution guarantees freedom of expression and belief to all US citizens. We won’t talk about religious freedom because you see Islam as an ideology,not religion.
So what you are essentially asking for is an amendment to the First Ammendment.
Fair enough.
Let us ignore the fact that ex-Pres Bush, amongst others, claimed that the terrorists hate us for our freedoms. After all, if we factor it in, we would have to concede that in amending the first amendment, we are de facto limiting our own freedoms, which is, apparently, what the terrorists were hoping to make us do. So let us just agree that Bush was wrong to say it, and factor it out altogether.
Let us instead focus on realities.
How workable do you think it is? The US Supreme Court and government have, in the past, shown a reluctance to go near this amendment because of the precedent it sets. The most obvious example is the Nazi demonstration in Illinois.
For the time being, let us ignore altogether the precedent that any such amendment or modification would set.
All said and done, do you really believe your suggestions are viable or workable?
After all, I imagine that an intelligent person like yourself would have given this topic much thought before posting. I would expect no less from a proud critic of pointless posts like yourself.
Ah, there, I feel more contented now. And I will feel even better when you provide us with your views on how realistic your suggestions are.
As I just updated my post at ThePolitic, it has been amusing to me, to say the least, that Terry Jones has been called an idiot and nobody has questioned the wisdom of the media and politicians who enlarged his audience from 30 to 6 billion.
Everyone take a slow step backward and look again at this hugely embarrassing debacle. Think again about what the fuss is over. Someone was going to burn a koran. Big Deal.
The real issue should be about the freedoms we enjoy in this country. I am totally free to disagree with other religions, than my own. I could burn a bible (yawn), I could stomp on the writings of Buddha (zzz), I could use Watchtower newsletters to light my BBQ (boring). We should celebrate and protect this freedom.
I seriously think that this freedom of dissent will soon be gone, because our “fearless” leaders did not address this issue but rather tried to appease the radicals. dhimmi, dhimmi, dhimmi
Do not know if this has been said before, but prior to the Reverend canceling the Koran burning, all of the media outlets were not going to cover the event…….LOL….LOL……They are the ones that built it into and international mess. These prissy, no-balls MSM caused the problem. Then did not have the balls to follow through. Have to wait for the next generation to show us baby boomers how to have balls.
if someone in TO said as much and attracted attention McGuilty would get the kops to firebomb his house.
Actually, I think the Rev. Jones knowingly and with forethought instigated this to have the opposition themselves demonstrate the obvious: threats (or acts) of violence are the only expected responses from Islam, the religion of submission.
What this singular episode proved beyond that point is that Dear Precedent Obama does not support Christian America, but does support Islam in all its forms.
The media coverage has been appalling, at least at The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer, where everyone was bending over backwards to diss the Rev. and completely skirt the real issue which is militant Islam and its threat to the West.
CTV’s coverage wasn’t any better (ironically, showing footage of Islamists burning the American flag: I guess that’s OK) until Marcia MacMillan interviewed Tarek Fatah who had the sanest view of the situation I’ve heard. He wasn’t letting extremist Muslims off the hook, nor world leaders. Sorry, couldn’t find a video of this interview.
“As I just updated my post at ThePolitic, it has been amusing to me, to say the least, that Terry Jones has been called an idiot and nobody has questioned the wisdom of the media and politicians who enlarged his audience from 30 to 6 billion.”
Maybe its because he has a track record of doing questionable things. Apparently he campaigned against the incumbent mayor because the latter was/is openly gay. How seriously can you take a pastor who claims to be about freedom of expression, and yet thinks gay people should not be allowed to hold elected office? I have yet to see the causal link between being gay and not being able to govern/practice politics. Suffice to say, I find it a bit rich that this fellow has become the poster boy of freedom.
Oh well.
Turns out the good pastor has called off the burning. He’s planning on using it as leverage to change the location of the mosque. I, for one, am waiting with bated breath to see how this pans out. Drama.
The most poignant lesson I learned from reading Bat Ye’or and Efraim Karsh on Islamic Imperialism was that Islam’s bloody borders expanded with the active cooperation/collusion of the infidel elites, secular AND religious. As we have seen our elites are true to form in 2010.
Kate had an update on an earlier thread with a suggestion from commenter Joe. Joe’s idea was to have a world-wide read-the-Koran day. I thought that was a brilliant idea. I’d say, annually on 9/11. There’s a Kafkaesque aspect to the world-wide discussion of Islam in that most people — especially our too-busy elites — have no idea what’s in that hate fest, relying instead on taqiyya-practicing Mohammedans’ quotations from the early peaceful Meccan verses which of course were abrogated by the later violent Medina verses.
Clearly, something systematic needs to be done — some kind of regularized global push-back for the purpose of asserting our cultural values and de-sensitizing the Mohammedans. (I am no longer using the word Muslim — from now on, it’s strictly Mohammedan).
This fellow’s more entertaining than I thought.
Now he’s gone and admitted that he has “no experience whatsoever” of the koran. How do you write a book called ‘Islam is Evil’ without actually reading the koran? Is this guy for real? He needs a PR manager to stop him from damaging his credibility.
Michael Coren had a good take on this tonight. After cataloging the many sins of Islam he ended with:
The issue is not book burning, the issue is people burning. And when the Islamic world treats everyone equally – irrespective of their religion – then we can say, maybe a dialogue.
Until then, media and the rest of you? Oh stop it and shut up!
Youtube video here.
Check out the comment count at this link.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning#mwpphu-container
Comments now closed. Never seen such a high comment count for any topic.
Is the pushback finally coming?
New T-shirt campaign about to begin …
“I Never Burned No Korans
So Where’s My Virgin?”
good ol’ pastor jones…i’ll remember him in my prayers tonight…he ratcheted the awareness factor up a good three notches….
it’s all grist for the mill of course….NOW we are even closer to the denoument where push comes to shove…
to quote ee cummings on olaf
‘there is some shit i will not eat’…
and THAT belief is what the average western prole is finally coming to believe….
I’m wondering if there is some kind of means test that can be developed now to determine if an opponent is offering peace in good faith or is playing us like a harp from hell?
The Imam in NY has “agreed” to move his mosque…okay where? Closer to GZ?
The preacher may or may not have done this for his 15 minutes of fame, or he may have done this to demonstrate how far the west is willing to bend over backwards to keep the “radicals” from becoming angry while the “moderates” are silent when the radicals take to the streets in mock protest with the metaphorical knife to our throats.
Whether the angry protesters are blocking the DVP because we refuse to launder funding for tamil tigers, or they are occupying a land development in Caledonia, a boat load of Tamil’s showing up in Victoria claiming refugee status, or protesters angry because the IDF had the temerity to retaliate against Hamas or Hezbolla terrorist attacks, the question in the back of the mind that nags us when they want to have a cease fire or a temporary truce is the same.
Are they really bargaining in good faith, or are they taking advantage of our good faith?
Some of us opened our eyes after 9-11, some are still blind, hopefull really that the radicals see the error of their ways, while still the sad collective exists whose calenders have a blank spot where it should have the date September 11 marked.
I don’t hate these misguided fools, I feel sorry for them. They live in a world that is sunshine and lollypops, where there are free lunches and war is a thing of the past so nobody needs a gun or that matter a right to bear them.
And each day that goes by I keep having to tell myself that Hitler wasn’t supposed to have won WWII, so why do I get the feeling that when the first train arrives enroute to the work camp there will be far far too many anxious folks ready and willing to jump on board so as not to offend the radicals?
In related news,another market bombing,—“Vladikavkaz, where the bombing took place, is in the mostly Christian internal republic of North Ossetia, whereas the bomber is known to have driven in from the neighbouring Muslim internal republic of Ingushetia.
17 dead,over a 100 wounded,but they were Christians not korans,so who really cares.
How about if we burn 100 korans for every death?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/7992445/Suicide-bomb-kills-17-in-Russian-market.html
F#%kin throwbacks!!!
And you know for anyone who has an issue with me saying this i tell you this !
Until they stop i won’t i did not start this crap they did we can go all the way back to the seventh century if you like to see who truley cast the first stone!!!
So what if the jews didn’t accept mohammed so who cares move on ..but see it was simple they needed a cause so they decided that ,that was offencive enough to basically start a friken 1310 year war !!! do you think say in 1300ad they were talking peacefully in there mosks ?
O.k. say maybe 1500 ad ? well what about 900 ad ? what abbooouutt 1722ad? do you think they were talking about building a better world and letting allah guide them peacefully ? Sorry if you have an argument against what i am saying your obviously not a historian. And i will admit neiether am i but i can tell you that i know enough and i have read the koran ,and many other islamic history book’s and not one ever not even once actually cals for the peaceful coexsistence with christians,jew’s ,or non beleivers . Now maybey i am reading opinion book’s ? NO no my friends these are fact based book’s and maybe i am not reading the right ones ? well then if that is the case someones fact’s are wrong and given the scholar’s,former muslims,former muslim scholars i would tend to take there fact’s over say ann coulter. sorry .
so in closing i say this
F#%KIN THROWBACK’S!! and i will continue to call them that until the day they laydown there swords sit at a table and talk about a peaceful coexsistence . i think almost every western nation has reached out to an open hand the muslim world and it has basically been cut off .
Burn Koran? No! Burn flag? You bet!
You can’t make this stuff up. Upset Pakistanis protest the burning of the Koran by . . . burning the American flag!
Meanwhile their brethren in India mail in a bomb threat to a church.
Video here
Hey, I’m still waiting for all the GZM 1st amendment experts supporting the lunatic in NYC to come out in their support of the 1st amendment for the lunatic in Florida.
Your anti-Muslim thing normally isn’t my cup of tea Kate, but I’m with you on this one: this is bullsh!t. For so many reasons. If the safety of western civilization can be jeopardized by a single instance of one dude planning on burning a Koran – in the age of Piss Christ and while they burn the American flag – we’ve got a serious problem to deal with.
Apparently Pastor Terry Jones is angry that he was “lied to” by the Muslims at the Ground Zero mosque, so now the Koran-burning is no longer cancelled, but “on hold”….
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11256182
Think folks ! would an FBI agent be visiting a Mosque to shut them up? Even if their burning cars?
Look at the overreaction, It should scare the crap out of you. Via Drudge:
FBI agents visit Florida church over Quran burn
By ANTONIO GONZALEZ and MITCH STACY (AP) – 8 hours ago
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hKWWJdTrfALpbYfWB6fM58p6u-pwD9I4I32G0
The reason for the antagonism toward the “wayward” pastor boils down to fear of being blown up, pure and simple. As someone pointed out, we are the abused wife to Islamofascists abusive husband.
There must be some point where enough is enough.
learn to speak their language
a dozen nuke cruize missiles at the ready
and the will to use them
The MSM needs to be taken out the woodshed over this – they fanned the flames and looked all surprised when the flames started to burn out of control.
Unfortunately our ‘leaders’ need to go learn some basic parenting skills (or Kate you might teach them some basic dog training skills about who the alpha dog needs to be in the pact!) You pick your fights and and those fights you pick you must win. All that has resulted is that some very bad children (yes Muslims have the civilized understanding of two year olds) have learned that they can continue their bad behaviour AND get what they want.