Now is the time at SDA when we juxtapose!
CBC Fruit Fly Guy, Aug.28 2009 – The number of sockeye returning from the ocean to the Fraser River this year is one of the lowest in the past 50 and follows two years of dangerously low returns. In fact, we have witnessed decades of decline for diverse sockeye populations from the Fraser Watershed, some of which are now on the brink of extinction.
Vancouver Sun, Aug.26th 2010 (link fixed) – Fishery officials estimated Tuesday that more than 25 million sockeye salmon will return to the Fraser River this year, the largest number since 1913.
h/t Peter M.
Ahhh but the progressive Climate Shaft redistributionists will argue the juxtaposition is apples and oranges.. .one date is Aug 26 the other the 28th…these Fruit Flies are very exacting scientists you know.
The price of canned sockeye has been stable in the supermarket.
I’ll wow unknowing canape munchers this festive season with the tidbit that Dr. Fruitfly says the sockeye they’re eating is an endangered species just like the spotted owl.
Is there ever going to be an end to the lies that environmentalists tell, and the media echo without checking, in their effort to destroy our quality of life?
Meditation brought them back.
What? – prove me wrong.
It’s great to see a good run finally, been the pits for the last few. Every four years there’s usually a good run of sockeye. Of course this doesn’t change the fact that all populations of large fish are struggling, and one shouldn’t just look at one species of fish in one year to judge the health of that fish population, let alone the ocean in general.
This also doesn’t look very deep into the local Sockeye population. Within the Fraser Sockeye population there are subgroups, each spawning in it’s own territory. Some of these groups are still at critically low levels, which accounts for the large fluctuations in numbers from year to year and also means that genetic diversity is low.
One good year doesn’t mean everything is all good.
Maybe because of all the RF energy from cell phones, the salmon were disoriented and couldn’t find their way back to the spawning grounds…?
i can’t get the vancover sun link it won’t come up.
paul in calgary
There’s some extra garbage in the link, try:
http://www.vancouversun.com/Record+number+sockeye+salmon+return/3437979/story.html
Salmon die after spawning.
It’s the way their life cycle works.
The trick is to keep them from being killed on their way to where they spawn.
Bears are the biggest killers of spawning salmon.
Guess who keeps shreiking about “saving the bears”?
And THAT, my friends, is why it is idiotic to hastily craft policy based on the hysterics of environmentalists.
“Bears are the biggest killers of spawning salmon.”
2nd biggest, WAY after humans.
“Guess who keeps shreiking about “saving the bears”?”
Are you implying that the solution is to kill off bears?
These are the new genetically modified stealth salmon which are invisible to the fish finders used on the Alaskan boats. The project was kept top secret to forestall any opposition from Dr ff and his ffollowers.
Now I seem to recall reading somewhere that salmon catches on the West Coast of North America was one of the clues that lead science to “discover” the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, all the way back in 1997, well after the science was already settled and it was all our fault.
And not even a climatologist, but a biologist.
http://www.iphc.washington.edu/Staff/hare/html/papers/pdo/PDO.html
BTJ, humans have been MURDERING salmon for centuries. In fact humans murder all life forms. Murder of innocenct life forms dramatically increased after the invention of the windshield.
Are you implying that the solution is to kill off bears?
Spawning fish taste like crap.
The flesh is soft and tasteless.
Bears eat the bellies out of them because that’s where the yummy high protein roe is.
Haven’t you ever seen videos of grizzlies at a salmon run?
Each grizzly has a territory of 90 square miles, but they congregate at salmon runs and decimate the salmon as they try to swim upstream to spawn.
They just scoop’em up and one bite out of the belly, waste they rest and all those thousands of roe in each female never get to be adults.
I’ve always been in favour of killing off all the top tier predators.
Or at least trying to.
More fish, elk, deer, moose, all kinds of game for us and lots of money from foreign sportsman who hunt and fish.
Think of the money to be made with hunters coming to hunt the bears, cougars, wolves, ect.
Good for the economy.
“Spawning fish taste like crap.”
Which is why we eat them before they reach that stage. I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove by focusing so closely on when they’re killed.
“I’ve always been in favour of killing off all the top tier predators.
Or at least trying to.”
Which is why ignorant people such as yourself will never be in charge of making such decisions. And yet we still manage to do just that, kill off most of the top predators. In short, you’re clueless.
Geez…instead of letting all those tastey treats rot on the wharfs, Father Suzuki should bake a few loaves of bread and feed the masses on East Hastings….that would cement his place in history as Mankind’s Saviour….(can I say Mankind?)
Earlier this year, I read that a large group of seals (what is that? a pack? a herd?) congregates on the Fraser River, and just feasts on the young salmon trying to get to the ocean. (There’s a Mope & Wail article from April of this year that alludes to this, but you have to pay to access it – like they’re getting any of my money!!) The local native band, fishermen, and fishing companies have all begged for permits to cull the seals and/or drive them back to the ocean, but the powers that be have denied all of these, and the young fish, many raised in hatcheries, never get past the gauntlet.
Mark Peters, what you said @ 9:11.
It’s Mother Gaia calling all her children to flock to the shores of the most environmentally corrupt country on earth to protest the tar sands.
Suzuki whispered in my ear while I was asleep. NOAA has got Lake Michigan all aboil for a feed.
BTJ, the most ignorant individuals in our society are socialists who believe the crap that spews from socialist leaders in the media, education, political, and the enviro-marxist movements. The leaders you see, know they are destroying wealth, liberty, and freedom while they pay lip service to “social and environmental justice”. It is all about power to them, always will be.
Those that follow them may have good hearts, but do so only because the depth of their ignorance. How else to explain their support of socialist/marxist tyranny?
I think its time people remind others of how deadly the green movement is. Over 50,000,000 murdered by malaria since the eco-marxists banned DDT. One million a year are still being culled by the Green Reaper.
The problem isn’t so much that BTJ trusts these murderous, people hating, lying, cowardly, eco-marxists with his life and liberty. Like all socialists, he insists we all put our lives in their deadly hands.
Not gonna happen without a fight.
The great Neo Commie Suzuki – seats five with air conditioning – has been on the wrong side of many issues. Lets review, Globule Freezing, Globule warming, Pine Beetle and the great destruction of everything by Alberta.
Suzuki & CBC – always wrong, all the time.
BTJ @ 9:18:
The solution is to stop mucking about with our environment trying to fix it, when we have absolutely no understanding of it, and when it seemed to work just fine before we got there.
Yes I said that we have absolutely no understanding of it, no matter when enviromentalists will tell you.
I would refrain from being too optimistic about the miraculous scientist-defying salmon recovery. Like the recovery of the Arctic Ice those salmon are probably weak and sickly fish. “Rotten” salmon. It will take many more studies and millions of dollars to fund advanced computer models to confirm that the actual observations are correct.
I blame Bush for this influx of salmon, which will pollute your pristine rivers. (It would be his fault if the numbers were low, so it must alos be his fault if the numbers are high.)
Maybe if the City of Victoria would stop dumping their sewage into the ocean there would be more “healthy” salmon.
With all the crap, toxic waste, estrogen producing birth control pills, paint and all the other things which the fish have to feed on while swimming through those waters, there would be a better chance of growing healthy and strong stock.
There are and should be things which the government should stand up and take responsibility for, like this sewage issue. But, there are too many public servants who are making a tidy living managing these cesspools of toxic waste, not wanting to rock the boat with their local unions. Just keep doing the job they have been trained to do, don’t think outside the box and don’t bite the hand that feeds.
Then they go to rallies to save the fish and the eagle and the bear and the salmon and ….
Now that BJT has taken the time to trash and ridicule all the posters and thier funny and not so funny solutions (for half a thread).
I wonder if he’s going to bother an stick his neck out for an actual solution of his own? Na, that’s not why he posts here is it. Much better to pick and poke like a meaningless troll and have zero of substance to say.
My bet would be that if BTJ actually had something to add to the conversation about saving the Salmon it would be – Eugenics. Get rid of the “Top predator” then bring in the Muslims, of course.
Oh, how I long for the return of the day when science was about explaining what actually exists.
Creating panic about what may happen in the future is political science, a means by which to control the ignorant populace ie the populace which refuses to think for themselves and searches for a guru.
False prophets used to be stoned in Biblical times .. being stoned appears to be a prereqisite to being a modern-day prophet.
===>>> Oz
The trick is to keep them from being killed on their way to where they spawn.
Bears are the biggest killers of spawning salmon.
=============================================
LOL.
Where did this non-factoid come from?
Marko:
“Over 50,000,000 murdered by malaria since the eco-marxists banned DDT. ”
I think you need to do more research on DDT. It is not very effective in many areas of Africa because mosquitoes breed almost year round, you’d have to constantly spray. Pesticide laced nets/drapes covering windows and over beds are MUCH more effective. Randomly spraying poison everywhere is an old and outdated idea, and not very good for the HUMAN environment in the long term either.
“The problem isn’t so much that BTJ trusts these murderous, people hating, lying, cowardly, eco-marxists with his life and liberty. Like all socialists, he insists we all put our lives in their deadly hands.”
Mind making a connection between the words I wrote and your random rant…you just made a bunch of assumptions and spouted a bunch of inaccurate statements.
Larry:
“BTJ @ 9:18:
The solution is to stop mucking about with our environment trying to fix it, when we have absolutely no understanding of it, and when it seemed to work just fine before we got there.”
What are you talking about? Where did I suggest anything to ‘fix it’? I simply expanded on the subject. And yes, we do have some understanding, enough to monitor to state of ecosystems. Perhaps YOU have absolutely no understanding. What do you mean ‘before we got there’? What has that to do with anything? Humans have been around for quite some time now…are you suggesting we stop interacting with the environment all together?
LC:
“I would refrain from being too optimistic about the miraculous scientist-defying salmon recovery. Like the recovery of the Arctic Ice those salmon are probably weak and sickly fish.”
It’s called a four year cycle…the Adams cycle.
glacier:
“With all the crap, toxic waste, estrogen producing birth control pills, paint and all the other things which the fish have to feed on while swimming through those waters, there would be a better chance of growing healthy and strong stock.”
It’s pretty amazing that, despite all the ‘stuff’ that flows into the ocean, salmon can ‘smell’ their way back to the place they were born.
It’s
Sockeye is selling for $3.50/lb on the docks . . . gutted, cleaned, ready for my grill.
Gotta love a market glut.
We’ll dine well this weekend, I think some Pinot Grigio will be in the ice bucket as the salmon comes off the Q.
Knight99:
“Now that BJT has taken the time to trash and ridicule all the posters and thier funny and not so funny solutions (for half a thread).”
Aww…look at you, just can’t get enough of me huh? I remember my first crush.
“I wonder if he’s going to bother an stick his neck out for an actual solution of his own?”
Solution to what? To overfishing? Here’s an idea, how’s about the fishing industry and government follow the recommendations put forward by the people who monitor fish populations a little more closely, rather than catching two, three, four times it. I personally don’t eat ocean dwelling fish, except on rare occasion.
On another note, a little while back researchers were baffled as to how global total catch numbers were steadily rising over the last couple decades, yet local fisheries were all reporting lower numbers. It ended up being that Chinese fishery officials were pulling their catch numbers out of the air to make sure they kept rising each year so that they’d keep their jobs (being that the gov’t is a bunch of dirty Commies). Once researchers corrected Chinese numbers they saw that global catch figures had actually been dropping for some time. Just about every population of large fish has plummeted over the last century.
BJT. links please.
It is rather odd the good Doctor of fruit flies and fig leaf poser wouldn’t zero in on the real shit that’s being dumped into the ocean in Victoria.
It seems fitting that would be a place to do a documentary on for CBC instead of all his re-runs.
look at you, just can’t get enough of me huh?
I for one keep hoping you’ll post another unintentionally hilarious video, like that hsyterical goober at TED wailing about eco-doom in the Gulf on the basis of his dish-detergent-in-a-glass sciency-tific experiment, and some third-hand story about a crying dolphin. That stuff is comedy gold. Encore!
BTJ >
Rubbish, you don’t know what your talking about and never provide proof.
Funny, BTJ, I don’t remember any coverage of that four-year salmon cycle being relayed by the alarmists last year. Nope, the coverage was “The salmon are going extinct and horrible, horrible humans are to blame!!! Repent!! Repent!!” Although, I may be paraphrasing a bit.
link to what? If you can’t even give the courtesy to be more specific than that you can go look it up yourself, lazy as all hell. Do you need everything spoon fed to you?
If it’s in reference to populations of large fish plummeting….it’s VERY well known.
re: China
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Global+fish+catch+falling,+study+says+Overreporting+by+China+had…-a080509321
“I for one keep hoping you’ll post another unintentionally hilarious video, like that hsyterical goober at TED wailing about eco-doom in the Gulf on the basis of his dish-detergent-in-a-glass sciency-tific experiment, and some third-hand story about a crying dolphin. ”
Ya, the crying was pretty funny, I’ll give you that. The dish detergent wasn’t supposed to elicit ooohs and awwwws, it was a simple way of showing what dispersants do. TED is a VERY good organization…unless you want to argue against cutting edge technology.
“Funny, BTJ, I don’t remember any coverage of that four-year salmon cycle being relayed by the alarmists last year.”
I didn’t say it was. That doesn’t debate the fact that subpopulations are still at critical levels, which leaves poor genetic versatility, which makes for large swings in population numbers.
TED is a VERY good organization.
Not if they let VERY awful, unscientific, overwrought, ridiculous nonsense like that get presented, no, it’s not.
“Not if they let VERY awful, unscientific, overwrought, ridiculous nonsense like that get presented, no, it’s not.”
Yes it is, you find me a more diverse group of cutting edge technologists, scientists, entrepreneurs, artists, CEO’s, etc. Bill Gates, JJ Abrams, Blaise Aguera y Arcas, Stephen Hawking, Richard Branson, Richard Dawkins, Peter Eigen, Jeff Bezos are just a handful of the speakers.
Are you suggesting that it would be better if there were more stringent censoring of speakers? Can you not make your own judgments? Or do you need someone to make them for you?
The problem, BTJ, is that the alarmists in science and the MSM are dismantling every shred of credibility that their predecessors built up over hundreds of years. Every time one of their moronic predictions fails they come up with a “Yes, but we actually meant that…”. A critical mass of people now just rolls their eyes at each newly announced disaster of epic proportions. It is sad to see science destroy itself over blatant grant-mongering and to promote an activist-driven agenda.
Can you not make your own judgments? Or do you need someone to make them for you?
Clearly I can, otherwise I wouldn’t be mocking the notion that overemotional pseudo-scientific claptrap and third-hand anecdotes are cutting-edge science or whatever you think that idiotic presentation was.
BC coast tribes have stories going way back of weak or nonexistent salmon runs predating European contact, It may well be an ancient phenomena.
There are also weathered petroglyphs that appear to entice or show the returning salmon the way.
There is current research into tree ring growth on the theory that good salmon years coincide with strong tree growth due to fish fertilization along riparian zones on the coast. The theory is that bears drag the fish carcasses into the trees and leave large portions behind to act as fish fertilizer,and,perhaps,confuse gullible climate researchers.
The reek of rotting fish from coastal estuary’s come September/October attest to the rich biomass left on the banks
“We think there’s some complicated kind of delayed ecological interaction effects that a big run can cause poor survival down the road and maybe low runs can cause good survival down the road, but we don’t understand the mechanisms at all,” said Walters.
http://www.kelowna.com/2010/08/25/massive-sockeye-salmon-run-hits-fraser-river/
The fact is no one knows why the fluctuations occur, so anyone claiming to know or attributing the fluctuations to environmental impact or other causes is simply guessing at best.
The Salmon cycle remains one of the world’s greatest unsolved mysteries.
I got it, the Canadian Goricle will claim that the salmon are just trying to ecape the sea because the melting icecap will sink into the ocean and cause a massive kill off.
Regardless of the fact that Ice floats, which is just about on par for most of his research.
It’s enough to make a greenie blue.
David Sucksuki. Not brain dead enough!1!
Hey BTG, the headline in these BC waters parts last night was THE GREATEST SALMON RUN SINCE 1913 (courtesy the Province)
Please enlighten us about the 97 year salmon cycle talking point.I am especially looking forward to all the records from 1809.You know to validate the science…../
I blame it on the census long form, which Dr Fuitfly is probably depending upon for accurate sockeye data. Millions of sockeye have been declaring themselves to be coho and chum in protest over the cumpulsory nature of the form.