A lot of people had forgotten…
[…] the shameful incompetence that led to the Waco massacre that — unlike the blamed Limbaugh, etc. — actually inspired Timothy McVeigh, but by bringing it up again Clinton is reminding people, and undermining the elder-statesman role he was trying to carve out. Bad move. Either he’s losing his touch, or they’re getting desperate.
What a ratfink. And you just know that if George W. Bush had cynically exploited the tragedy of 9/11 to save a floundering political career the MSM would have crucified him for it. Oh, wait…
Bush had to pick up the pieces of the Clinton administration.
As for Clinton, pure sleaze.
Didn’t the Federal agents attack the Waco settlement
“to save the children?” The usual reason – “we’re just doing this for the children” –
but all of the children involved in Waco died.
It’s all there in black and white for anybody who cares to read Dick Morris. And yet Jake Tapper (one of the best of the MSM reporters) of ABC sits down for a long interview with Clinton about the 15th anniversary without a mention of any of this.
” Either he’s losing his touch, or they’re getting desperate.”
Or both.
The Bill and Hill and the kennedys have either endorsed Obama directly or indirectly by supporting or participating in the regime. They all are beginning to see that they are tied to the masts of obamanias sinking ship. This fate has made them even more partisan than they normally would be – as has been the case for a lot of dems. They will fight to the political death as a result and be very very dangerous in the meantime.
I suspect that Clinton and the Democrats do not see any problem with their role in Waco, and are bringing up and going to increase their references to…images of People-Who-Object-To-Their-Government.
That is, the Waco group is being linked to the Tea Parties, the Town Halls, to any and all who object to the Obama Way.
I suspect that there’ll be more such unstated connections flung out, all neatly packaged and bundled so that the unwitting public will, ahh…make the Correct Conclusion all by their little old selves… That only Wacos..dissent.
I also suspect that Obama needs some enormous dust-up, preferably internal, to gather the terrified American citizenry to hide in the shadow of His Magnificence, and therefore to reject those nasty Tea Partiers, and to Cleave to Obama ..esp. during the November elections.
As for Obama’s ‘foreign policy’ it’s as mindless as he is – and he’s inciting Iran to provoke and provoke Israel to attack.
Obama, as a malignant personality, gets bored very quickly with any requirement for thought, analysis, the attainment of knowledge. His ignorance about economics, history..and his lack of curiosity about such things means that he relies totally on his Personality and his skills at personal manipulation in order to control events and people.
When these personal skills fail, as fail they must when dealing with Evil – be it Iranian or Russian imperial agendas – he has nothing to fall back on. No understanding. No plan. Either you form part of the Love-Obama Club, or, he has no interest in you. Iran and Russia don’t exist for Obama.
Whether a possible blow-up in the ME will function as that Elect-Obama’s-Democrats in the Novemeber election (and remember, he’s preparing the stage to blame Israel for any such event)..or whether it will be an internal explosion..which he will blame on the Tea Parties and the Republicans…Obama requires an emotionally hysterical event in the next few months. To enable His Power to continue.
It’s the last card to be played. More money is to be spent and the Dems need a victimizer. They do not know how to deal with the Tea Parties. There is no leader to threaten, bribe or crush. Real outrage that is not manufactured by organizations or unions. It is real friggin’ democracy rudderless and hard to fight because they actually want change. It is hard to take the high road when you are past your arse in mud.
ET and Speedy…..
I agree except that IMHO too much is attributed to Obamuggabbe and that the key is the clique of puppetiers behind the TOTUS.
Obamuggabbe just does not project an image of leadership…he is an empty suit.
I notice that more and more, Obamuggabbe makes some stupid off the cuff remark and within hours or days, Gibbs, or Obamuggabbe himself, clarifies/retracts that remark.
I sense the power behind TOTUS is getting antsy and that the possibility is that Obamuggabbe has outlived his utility to their purpose.
When he becomes more valuable as a dead martyr, he is dead meat—-and the SS can’t protect him. That is the emotionally hysterical event.
Waco proved only one thing, that the state intervenes in the freely made decisions of its citizens at considerable peril to its stated values of freedom.
The fact that the state may see itself as being wiser than those citizens is not a guarantee for a successful outcome.
As to whether it really is wiser in any given instance, that is better left to a judge who can see all things, and not just those visible to secular humanists.
Then Oklahoma City proved another thing, that the mistakes of the state can lead to massive unintended consequences, which alone might serve to caution against such interventions.
On the other hand, we are not now suffering from the scourge of rampant Koreshianity.
Dumbar: 9/11 was a real event which was hatched long before Bush took office … 9/11 was launched by foreigners … by Muslim purists, it was an act of war.
Instead, Clinton, Rahm, and Obama are goading on domestic extremism … after all, why waste a crisis. They are attacking their own peaceful citizens for simply disagreeing with them and painting these entirely innocent people with the odius brush of violence and extremism.
But I’m sure you understood that … having lost the logical arguement, you’re simply left with snark. Typical progressive tact, that.
Waco Texas = American Militia’s.
American Militia’s = Guns.
Does anyone else see the political connection by way to remove the Second Amendment?
Why was the second amendment drafted to begin with?
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
It’s not an outlandish idea that the modern American government would have a vested interest in demonizing fringe groups by pulling out their big propaganda flunky’s to sell their hope and change. After all, the only thing that stands between them and total control of the public is that pesky constitution and its promise to its people that they can protect themselves from tyranny.
sasquatch – I’ve never suggested that Obama has an agenda other than a personal narcissistic agenda of His Power.
The socialist ideology to insert statism belongs to the BackRoom Gang who run Obama but the personal need for adulation and personal control over people..belongs to Obama.
The good folks at Samizdata wade into it too. I suspect that ET and Speedy have nailed it. Nothing galvanizes like fear.
With O’bama’s numbers in decline, a constitutional change is unlikely and the electorate can feel November approaching.
http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2010/04/bill_clinton_ta.html
On Bills watch. Waco, First Trade Center Bombing, Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing, Black Hawk Down, all while he disgraced and demeaned the Oval Office. And yet he has the gall to ridicule and attack Americans who speak out against a Congress who seem intent on ignoring the Constitution. So please, just why should anyone be swayed by his less than honest assessment of the American mood.
Great post ET. Expect this kind of propaganda right up to November. However, I don’t think it’ll work. The DemComs don’t have the public sympathy to pull this off, and the alternate sources of information will prevent a successful disinformation programme. Obama, as a pathological lying narcissist marxist thug, also totally overestimates his magnificence.
sasquatch – I’ve never suggested that Obama has an agenda other than a personal narcissistic agenda of His Power.
– ET.
Ah, ET, but this is the case with all political marxists (as opposed to useful-idiot university prof marxists).
Monica Lewinsky got Bubba righter than anyone: BIG CREEP. Sorry to be crude, but as an old friend put it once, many people who show furrowed brow and speak of “concern” with a pained facial expression, are really suffering from hemmoroids.
I love the way, Kathy Shaidle puts it (paraphasing): ‘nah let’s not arrest the Waco whacko when he comes into town for supplies … let’s bomb ’em and kill ’em all children included’.
IT WON’T WORK.
“and the feds are busy getting spun up about bubbas in Mossy Oak angry about taxes. Way to keep your eye on the ball…”
And that pretty well describes the Great Game played by all North American security and enforcement agencies: given the choice between actually providing security, or giving the appearance of being concerned about security, they will choose the latter every time. Witness:
Metro Toronto Police Guns and Gangs Unit seizing hunting guns because the owners’ acquisition card has expired – are murders down at Jane and Finch?
Immigration Canada refuses entry to French couple with sick child – while 84 war criminals are wandering the streets of our cities.
OPP conduct sting operations at gun shows, but can’t see masked criminals beating up seniors in Caledonia.
HRCs trying to “correct” the harmless opinions of comedians and printing shop owners, but studiously avoid the hatred being preached in mosques.
etc., etc., etc,
Utterly pathetic.
It’s desperation because they know their days are numbered and there is so much destruction yet to be done.
The last 3 Dem administrations have been permeated with academic and doctrinaire neo Marxists and soviet styled administrators. They bring with them all the political subterfuge of their counterparts in the revolutionary marxist regimes. One of the most prominent conventions of a Marxist regime struggling with dissent against its civil martialism and kleptocracy is to demonize dissenters as ‘extremists, racist, terrorists’ and set the para military security agencies on their political enemies.
The Marxost regimes in the US have proven no different. Obama is actively seeking his “Waco or OK city to justify the imposition through executive order of martial law. All Marxist regimes are supported by martial law. Amerika is nexet. The neo-marxist BO regime is in a race to install as much communist centralization as they can before the November election. They will also be in a race to demonize and outlaw dissenters.
Bo’s Waco is on the horizon. Watch also for a renewed form of the fairness doctrine that does an end run around the SCC ruling to be hustled throug during the summer.
It’s not that I had forgotten Waco, not at all, not ever.
I had forgotten that it motivated Timothy McVeigh.
Thanks for the reminder.
Obama, Nov 2008: The American people just elected me President-for-Life.
American people: Nuh uh, this isn’t some Banana Republic, you know.
Obama: Already working on that for ya.
The biggest question I had is why did they send in the attack dogs instead of arresting the Waco Wacko when the Waco Wacko made his weekly beer run.
Of course you really have to look a long way back before you find a Democrat president that didn’t disgrace the office. My thought is all the way to Harry Truman.
A common thread running through semi-accidental marxist takeovers by obfuscation and deceit is that prior to a following election fought on the real merits of their usually incompetent time in office, “something” happens, “plots are discovered”, and “enemies of the people” are arrested and the naughty stuff somehow implicates their rightwing political rivals.
Not that Bill, “Hill the pill”, Nancy, and Harry would knowingly lend themselves to such a conspiracy ………………………..
It’s not that I had forgotten Waco, not at all, not ever.
I had forgotten that it motivated Timothy McVeigh.
Thanks for the reminder.
Posted by: Alicia at April 18, 2010 3:14 PM
————————————–
Don’t forget the “Incident at Ruby Ridge”.
That was also a large motivation for Timothy McVeigh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
Ah yes. Thanks, Mr.G.
This is another BS conspiracy theory story that is written specifically to sell tabloids–and to amuse the feeble minds of right wing Christian extremists, nothing else. The Texas state and US federal law authorities were well within their rights to ask for an inspection of a site where children were possibly held by a gang of Jesus freeks, most of whom should have been locked up in a mental ward.
All the JC freeks had to do was to let the authorities in to take a look around. Since when does a bible in your hand give you the right to go above state and federal laws.
I can’t believe that educated people can fall for such fairy tales as telling people that Waco was politically motivated!
Clinton’s other big brag: “When I left office, there was a surplus.”
Dude, that means you took too much money from people then didn’t give it back!
: Joe Citizen at 7:40 PM
well JC, one could always attibute it to leftist incompitance
the US army invaded Iraq with greater ease than Reno’s fools could invade kracked koresh’s kastle
the US army was under Bush’s watch when it did so
The Progressive Democrat Precursor to Waco can be found in the actions of GOODE, Mayor of Philadelphia in 1985 MOVE Org… Was Goode a consultant at Waco?
“During the final assault on the building, the police dropped an improvised bomb made of C-4 plastic explosive and Tovex, an explosive gel used in underwater mining. This however caused the house to catch fire, and ignited a massive blaze which eventually consumed almost an entire city block, killed 11 people (including 5 children), and left 240 people homeless.”
James Carville & Paul Begala, the Clinton Pimps,. Are doing the CNN rounds trying to
damage the TEA Parties… They were the defenders of Goode & the Clintons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_Goode#Mayor_of_Philadelphia
Bill Clinton has fallen into the swamp
Joe Cit. Do you even know anything about the Waco Wacko? Koresh’s cult was a messianic cult with Koresh the messiah. Now I don’t know about you but every Christian I know has only one Messiah and His Name is Jesus ben David. AKA Jesus Christ. Koresh and like cults are an anathema to Christians. However as a freedom loving HUMAN I don’t think it a good thing to kill innocent children because you don’t have the brains to figure out a better way to shut down a cult you don’t agree with.
I agree with Joe at 9:30
They were never referred to as an “Christian” group that I can recall. Just a crazy cult that was all about a self-entered, angry, resentful guy named David Whatever… So hense the “Da-vid-ian” name HE gave HIS ‘family’.
He also liked to have sex with underage girls, his rules AND only he could do so apparently – for his ‘family’ – well, colour me surprised.
But not surprisd the lefties like to lie about this as well.
Interestingly enough, MSNBC’s resident female blowhard, Rachel Mad(c)ow, presented a special documentary on the OKC bomber Tim McVeigh. She promoted it as an examination of “anti-government” home grown terrorists. She’s bound to make a link between McVeigh and the Tea Party, whom she can’t seem to get out of her head. Both she and Keith Olberman are obsessed about presenting as much anti-Republican garbage they can dig up.
Posted by: Joe Citizen at April 18, 2010 7:40 PM>
“Since when does a bible in your hand give you the right to go above state and federal laws.”
I’ll agree with the other commenter’s – who said anything about a bible?
It does seem to me that the US Constitution is the supreme law of the land, including the freedom of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness along with all that other freedom of assembly, worship and a fair trial nonsense.
Excessive force also comes to mind considering the BATF was supposedly trying to look after the welfare of the children in the “compound”. If you can’t arrest the leader with a proper warrant why wait and pick him up driving to town when we can just burn the whole lot down.
I suppose we all just hope that it’s not us one day that the government decides lives a nonconformist lifestyle and deserves to burn to death our entire family.
Tim McVeigh took an inappropriate method to protest a valid complaint.
That complaint being the abuse of authority and excessive force, in both the Waco and Ruby Ridge events.
In the Ruby Ridge attack Weaver’s wife was shot dead holding her baby and his pre-adolescent son was shot in the back….by “sharpshooters” using powerful optics….
BATF influence was the cause of both SNAFUs. The recent US Customs seizure of a shipment of Chinese manufactured Crosman “Air-Soft toys—-plastic toys—was predicated by a BATF that these plastic toys could be easily converted to functioning machine guns.
Call then Christians, Branch Davidians, Jesus Freeks, bible thumpers, common criminals or just plain assholes if you wish. The state in most free countries of the world have the right to enter a home or premises where there’s a possibility of kids being abused, or illegal weapons, drugs etc. are being stored. If indeed the followers of Karesh were not breaking the law, a simple inspection or search by the local Sherriff or Police would have cleared them of any wrong doing. I fail to see whether or not the Davidians are (were) Christians has anything to do with the final ending of Waco.
I’m not religious, but I do understand that the Davidians are a sect of the Seventh Day Adventists. Didn’t Karesh claim that Jesus Christ had yet to come and was going to take them away where they would return to earth in a 1000 years or so. If that’s not related to Christianity, then I need to take reading lessons.
As for being taken away to heaven, thanks to the FBI, the ATF and the Texas lawmen, they got their wish. May God bless their charred souls!
And in ending this argument, a few years ago if the RCMP and the FBI would have raided a few Catholic institutions where there was suspicion of child abuse, the world would be a a lot better place today.
PS: Sorry that should be spelled Koresh. It’s been a while since we’ve had a good standoff. I had also overlooked the fact that four officers were killed in the initial raid. That makes it even more justifiable. How did we (Canadians) feel after Mayerthorpe?
The Left at this point is terrified that they may have overplayed their hand, and must stop any resurgence of the Right, for fear retribution will be far more damaging to the Leftest establishment than any time in recent history. If the Right comes back I hope they understand now, Democrat’s, Socialist, Progressives, or what ever tag they hide behind must be eliminated as a political force. Social welfare is a Nation killer.
It was pure theater for the ATF. They could have arrested the guy any time he jogged. 70 children died for the MSM, & the Political Police.
some people forget the effect Ruby ridge had as well.
Besides theirs more the this than has been said.
Posted by: Joe Citizen>
“How did we (Canadians) feel after Mayerthorpe?”
Yea, not good.
How does one tragedy, justify another?
Who is supposed to be the taxpayer funded, well trained experts hired to serve and protect? Allot of Americans didn’t get a feeling their money was well spent when the answer was crashing a tank through a home and burning up nearly a hundred of its young citizens.
You would certainly think that with all that training, from the management level down, there could have been a better resolution. Even from a financial standpoint.
I think you are stretching a bit there Joe Cit. The Mayerthorpe Mountie killer was simply a common criminal with a hate on for cops. He had been arrested numerous times and released by the legal system.
That in no way compares to Koresh and his band of nutbars. The only question relevant regarding the Waco Wacko is, “Was there a better way to handle the situation that did not result in the needless deaths of innocent children?” The answer is yes there were other ways that were not taken.
To Joe and the others who see political history through wacky “coincidence theories”, do some research on on Waco, Ruby ridge and OK city.
They are all linked political events staged or abetted by government forces to manipulate public perception toward accepting statist martialism.
Then read Nicolo Machiavelli’s book (the prince) on state craft. Very little has changed between pre Renaissance governance of a kingdom and big government empire building in post modern societies. The methods, priorities and agendas of the ‘governors’ are universal.
Waco and Ruby ridge (and now Michigan hutaree raids) were high profile staged attacks to demonize the regime’s political enemies and set the stage for a larger false flag event which will justify government domestic martialism.
OK City was a staged reaction that was media-played to enable further martialization and militarization of domestic law authority.
There is no conspiracy about the chain of events which were officially orchestrated to yield a desired political end result. That’s politics at the upper echelon. It’s always been this way. There is no time in history where powerful governments did not prioritize their proliferation and continuity over the wider interests of the governed.
The goal is a fully martial law enforcement system. Ask yourself what kind of regime needs this type of police state martialism to support its continuity.
To read any amount of political history and conclude any thing else is, well, delusional theorizing.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6476
Overkill. An interesting read.
Joe Citizen: “I can’t believe that educated people can fall for such fairy tales as telling people that Waco was politically motivated!”
Oh. My. Ghod. Are you f-ing kidding me? They took NEWS CAMERAS to the party. Clinton needed a distraction, and David Koresh was a handy slam-dunk. Too bad nobody told Koresh, might have gone better than the insane shoot-first-ask-questions-later ATF raid from the horse trailers.
It never fails to astound me just how badly you Lefty troll jerkoffs underestimate who you are talking to. Do you think that we were all asleep or in diapers in the early ’90s? Do you think we don’t remember that whole Janet Reno clown circus in excruciating detail?
Tell me Joe baby, do you remember who Lon Horiuchi is? Google that up, see what you find out. Try Randy Weaver too, just for a giggle.
Interesting, when you google “Lon Horiuchi” there are no helpful google suggestions to lead you there. Coincidence? Happenstance? Enemy action? We report, you decide.
To: “The Phantom”
From: “Joe Baby”
What is this? Some kind of a “faggott anonymous” meeting where we’re on a first name basis?? I’ll stick to my guns. Where kids and weapons, drugs etc. are involved, cops should have a right to check things out. Screw your conspiracy theories.