To let your wallet do the talking. Click here…
… instead of here, and let them know precisely why.
(On the other hand, the more we have of this, the more we’ll see of this, so there is a silver lining.)
To let your wallet do the talking. Click here…
… instead of here, and let them know precisely why.
(On the other hand, the more we have of this, the more we’ll see of this, so there is a silver lining.)
> I say HFS man!
If CPC does not stand up and say ‘climate fraud is designed to redistribute wealth to Chicom’, they are not my party.
With friends like that who needs enemies?
I’m not that worried. More than half the population still beleives in CO2 killing the planet. Those people aren’t going to vote for you. But the ones on the edges will. It isn’t going to cost too much. We agree with the US, US goes protectionist, we can’t meet the goals. Haven’t bought too much, puts you on the side of the Angels and a get out of Deal card. The other way will by like releasing a pack of rabid dogs.
Indiana – How can you justify being lied to or misled by your elected government?
If you are so invloved in the gunfight that you’ve lost sight of the basic principles of what conservative representative government stands for, and that attitude is represntative of the CPC, then we are in serious problems because I don’t think that many people would hold their nose and vote for a party that feels justified in lying to its supporters.
On the topic at (what to do about the government’s committmnt to lower our carbon emissions by 17% by 2020) – why not have a back bencher come forward noticing that there seems to be a lot of conflicting opinion about AGW now and saying while still committed we need to look at it?
As Rex Murphy says in today’s National Post. Stephen Harper seems to be the only person that can outsmart Stephen Harper, and in this instance and many others recently, it looks like he outsmarted himself.
Are we being mislead, or are we simply being told the truth?
Must I quote Jack?
Can you handle the truth?
Here it is: Canada will do what America does, regardless of whom the Prime Minister is.
Are you recommending that for Stephen’s next platform?
I simply don’t believe it and I don’t think you do eiher.
He needs to use this intereggnum to create a new conservative agenda and take that forward. I do not see him successfuly campaigning on a 17% reducton in Canada’s carbon emissions. So why do it?
Are we going to start telling Chuck Norris style jokes about Harper?
Reality is, CPC had enough resources to go to bat about the issues when the libs were broke and broken. They preferred to steal 60 billion from us and buy themselves a few car companies.
Where is my share? When am I getting my dividends? 60 bil from all Canadians is $2000 of stock per person including babies in diapers, and in Canada one goes to jail for stealing $45.
When conservative PM goes all socialist on public coffer and I am supposed to like that, it is my moral obligation to flip him a bird.
Posted by: rroe at February 1, 2010 4:05 PM
To prevent a coalition takeover of Canada’s government?
I will likely vote cp but will not provide any funds until I see some results on the CWB gun control and cap and trade. With a majority in the senate now there are no more excuses Mr Harper,,
Posted by: Aaron at February 1, 2010 4:07 PM
I’m totally grateful you have only one vote.
Set you free: the problem is that too many here don’t understand the difference between strategy and tactics. They’ve also forgotten Winston Churchill’s maxim that truth must be defended with a bodyguard of lies. After all, the best way of battering down a door is NOT banging on it with your head.
If anyone here has heard any msm, except Fox News, report on the Climategate hoax, please post a link. If Climategate were the yapping point of the day the msm would get all icky and gooie quoting the ‘selfless dedication’ of the President of USA to Conservative members and ‘inquiring’ how we can hope to have a trading relationship with our ‘best friends’ with a ‘heritic’ distructive stance against the almighty godess Gia. Think about it! The stupid from Harvard and his troika pals would have us kow towing to all the World Government evil slavers in days.
I trust PMSH. He knows about the hoax but he cannot point any fingers until the jury (citizens) know all the facts. The jury is not going to get any facts from the msm. The Prime Minister says he gets his information from the msm – he will not wear the egg, the msm will. Where are the weak kneed Premiers and why are they not squawking – they can afford to – Campbell, Stelmack, Wall, Danny Williams….something wrong with their yaps? The left wing Premiers (mcsquinty, fluff guy in Quebec, whoever is running the Dippers in Manitoba..) cannot be considered because they are PUSHING for the Carbon Market.
Where are the mayors and individual provincial M.P.s? Danille Smith is the only voice on the side of citizens – and she is getting heard! The PM has a voice that can be heard, and people are paying attention. It will take some time, however..even the dippers/liberanos will tone down if/when they discover that they will be paying, not collecting…there are many with a big vested interest in the perpetuation of the big scam, they will try to get out of the web of lies without going belly up. I suggest buying popcorn and beer and enjoying the really big show!
I recommend what I said earlier, stay the course. Harper has the exact opposite situation that BO was in last month. Harper has a defacto majority with 100% political cover. Harper has appeased the left-wing by promising to follow the One, knowing that the One will likely go nowhere. He’s compromised with the left-wing and paid them in stocks from the Hope & Change Exchange. Personally, I’m content to see Canada’s left-wing paid in their preferred currency.
I’ll suggest that at this time, PMSH is in a better legislative and political position than he’d be in with a majority in the HoC.
Cheers.
cgh:
True. Most people have figured that one out by their mid-20’s.
Stomping of feet, holding of breath and speaking loudly also have limited effectiveness.
So Indy, Stephen Harper’s has put Canada’s money where Obama’s mouth is, when there is no way Obama will be able to get his counry’s money there?
And Jemma 54 – If he knows about the hoax – why lie to us? And as I read the thread, there have been commenters telling us that their MP’s say that Harper is committed to the reduction.
Telling the average Albertan that Canada will easily cut its carbon emissions by 17% will not win any votes in the next election. It must have me been done to take some heat off of other poll driven mistakes he has made.
Maybe the key is what I have said before and the conservatives realize it. Even with their conservative creds shot to hell, we will vote for them – holding our noses all the way.
But they are on dangerous turf. Kate’s point about straying away from your principles giving rise to things like the Wildrose Party is absolutely valid. The law of unintended consequences always has a play.
Quote: (for grown ups only)
“Every man, whether great or small, lives and acts within the frame of his age’s historical circumstances. These circumstances are determined by all the ideas and events of the preceding ages as well as those of his own age. The Titan may outweigh each of his contemporaries; he is no match for the united forces of the dwarfs. A statesman can succeed only insofar as his plans are adjusted to the climate of opinion of his time, that is, to the ideas that have got hold of his fellows’ minds. He can become a leader only if he is prepared to guide people along the paths they want to walk and toward the goal they want to attain. A statesman who antagonizes public opinion is doomed to failure. No matter whether he is an antocrat or an officer of a democracy, the politician must give the people what they wish to get, very much as a businessman must supply the customers with the things they wish to acquire.”
– Ludwig von Mises, Theory and History
I belive Mises would agree with what Jema 54 says above: he cannot point any fingers until the jury (citizens) know all the facts
rroe:
So, you’re prepared to let the Liberals take over?
Face it: since Harper is pursuing what is essentially a Liberal agenda, then we’ve already let the Liberals take over.
Ever since Harper took office, I’ve been told repeatedly that the unveiling of a conservative agenda is just around the corner. I’ve been told repeatedly that all he needs is a little more time.
I’ve now come to the conclusion that these pleas are nothing more than empty promises. I just don’t have the patience to play this game anymore. I don’t think I’ve ever been more bored with a legislative agenda as I have with Harper’s. I won’t be giving him any money until he stops ignoring his base. I don’t think I’m the only potential Tory supporter who thinks this way.
As for this notion that the citizenry can’t support a more conservative agenda until they know all the facts, how on earth are they supposed to gain this knowledge if no one in power cares to inform them of the facts? If no Conservative politician is willing to tell the public what a sham the global warming thesis is, for instance, then who will? A Liberal? Not bloody likely.
We’ve got a political logjam on our hands in this country, and more cheer leading for Harper won’t be anywhere near sufficient to break it.
I don’t think I can improve much on Indiana, cgh, speedy and Jemma.
Reality is a bitch…wadda-ya do.
The reality is that some conservative sympathisers (not conservatives) are getting impatient while Harper and crew are successfully playing the long game.
The T’s have control of the civil service and CBC. That’s right T is more likely a bureaucrat surfing on government time than a kid in mummies basement.
The Liberals and NDP are the parties of the bureaucracy….even a casual reflection would tell you that.
Common sense would show you that the “scientists” behind AGW are bureaucrats…not scientists. Suzuki is an X-bureaucrat.
It will be a long campaign to purge the bureaucrats from the civil service….
This a global problem….the bastards are dug in tighter than ticks.
These unelected parasites have too much control.
That is reality.
It reminds me of the Republicans who said they either wouldn’t vote for McCain, and would vote for Obama as a protest vote. How did that turn out? Yeah.
Indy and set you free
I quote today’s National Post, “Mr. Prentice’s speech was very much focused on the oilsands and the need for industry and the Alberta government to work with Ottawa to improve Canada’s environmental reputation. The province and sector also must help Ottawa meet the country’s revised environmental goals, which are to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 17% below 2005 levels – the same target adopted by the Obama administration.”
Admittedly it is a higher target than Kyoto – but it is still Ottawa hectoring Western Canada. Why don’t they hector the biggest emitting provices?
I don’t want a Liberal government – so why do they look so much like one?
Signing on to Copenhagen and reducing carbon emissions is the NEP wrapped in new, improved packaging.
This policy is diastrous for the West and yet again, we get stiffed so Harper can fulfill his pseudo-green mantra to buy Eastern Canadian votes.
Wasn’t 25 years of Trudeau enough?
ffoe:
What you may not understand is the carbon capture issue.
Resources are a provincial jurisdiction under the BNA Act and Alberta has announced a ‘carbon capture’ project that works in two different ways.
1) It takes CO2 out of the air and places it underground.
2) The captured CO2 will be in areas close to conventional oil fields and, using pressurized CO2, more conventional oil will become available for extraction.
Win, win.
Prentice is NOT interfering with Alberta’s sovereignty, he understands the formula will mean there is minimal cost to Albertans, whose province is the economic engine of Canada’s economy.
Any questions?
to stay in office a politician has to be a good strategist, and Harper is better than the rest at this, tho not top notch
some in here would that he be a conservative bully, which would please the Iggies to no end, as the EEEEEEEvil Harper would be easy to defeat in the next election
a soft conservative is better than a red lieberal, and even better than a stupid socialist
I will with hold funds and explain why to those soliciting for these funds, federally and provincially, but still vote conservative
as to those bitching and complaining about Harper, organize a protest in Ottawa, if you get a large crowd you will be speaking not only to Harper, but also to the rest of the parties, AND to the MSM
“So, you’re prepared to let the Liberals take over?”
Ontario voters did for 3 terms, happily electing 100 plus Liberal crooks to office to fleece them and steal their money. They mustn’t have been all too choked up over it, ’cause they only gave Harper a minority, once the sleaze came out.
Seems like our most populous province likes crooks, liars, thieves and skunks for pols. Says a lot about their day to day affairs, locally = McGuinty. Hey, he has 2 terms too and from where i sit, he’ll be voted back in again. Suckers for punishment aren’t we? Conservatives, yeah right.
Cons communications SUCK! They have not got their message out. I’m wondering if they even have one other than “vote for me, I’m not a Liberal”. Haven’t heard anything from my MP – Harper in all these years. Too busy buying votes with my money to bother. Bus passes, hockey gear. Just like Libs.
If these guys can’t elucidate the real agenda openly proposed by the WWF, Sierra Club, Suzuki, Elizabeth May, Maurice Strong and the raft of eco-fascists out there – depopulation by any means necessary, including the collapse of the western economies, then they are completely stupid and they deserve to lose.
You so-called conservatives slagging us as non-conservatives can act like deer in the headlights all you want, but I’m not following you over the cliff. Harper will lose the next election. When your base turns away – you are done. The Libs even know it. The current crop of Cons don’t have the political killer instincts that Chretien had.
They blinked on the $1.95. Game over. Chretien woulda called an election, not prorogued to the likes of Dion, Jack! and Gilles. Go hard or go home!
“So Indy, Stephen Harper’s has put Canada’s money where Obama’s mouth is, when there is no way Obama will be able to get his counry’s money there?”
That’s it! Sometimes you must gamble, and this is Harper’s gamble. I called it “Harper’s Gambit” before Copenhage, and I applaud him for making the most conservative gamble that was available to him. I’ve yet to hear the downside of doing nothing, except that some Conservatives wish to add a little smack-talk to the equation. “Let sleeping dogs lay” is my take.
Canada’s political reality is this: a Conservative minority government for the foreseeable future. Lets take advantage of the oppositions impotence for the next year or two and not give them anything tangible to grasp.
To your second point rroe, look for misdirection. You will see more lip service paid to the left, but I predict that the net results for Alberta will be par (financially speaking) with not doing anything. The Conservatives have already foreshadowed possible exemptions for some western industries. PMSH understands as well as anyone how fragile Confederation is.
set you free – Sure I understand carbon sequestration – but if it isn’t adding value, (it certainly won’t reduce Global Warming) it is just like a market for carbon credits. Just a fancy form of rent seeking. And again why bash Alberta? Methinks you are being to clever by two.
And I never brought up Alberta’s (or any provincial) sovereignty that Harper really championed in his early days. Since you seem to be plugged into their overall strategy, tell me should I start to worry about that?
Sasquatch – I agree with your assesment of the Federal bureaucracy – but why be first to sign on the carbon reduction bandwagon and then bash your home constituency?
Indy – I understood and liked the way that Harper played the Copenhagen game. I do not understand this. I think he’s in danger of losing the support of his home constituency.
I don’t disagree PO’d, I’m just willing to play this thing out. As I said earlier: “Does anyone believe that a Liberal government intent on harming western Canada/Canadians isn’t eminent?”
I signed on to this alliance as a last hope. As far as I’m concerned western alienation ends with a EEE Senate and nothing but. What most of us appear to disagree about isn’t what we desire, but on the most prudent way to get there. It’s my opinion the PMSH and the Conservatives have exceeded my expectations of what a minority Conservative government can accomplish, and I will reward my Conservative MP with my vote until my view changes.
Furthermore, I believe Canadian’s are fortunate that I wasn’t/am not PM because I too would have gone down in flames over this issue. You see, just a few short months ago I was flaming the Conservatives for the very same AGW beef. So I guess you could ask if I too, SDA’s resident western separatist, am complicit in trying to screw over western Canada to support a transfer of wealth to central Canada. Better yet, perhaps I’m a socialist.
Isn’t it more likely that it isn’t me(or PMSH) that’s changed, but instead, it’s you(fill in the blank) that hasn’t analyzed the situation correctly?
rroe:
No.
You’ve all been given a clear opportunity to actually DO something other that bitch about the CPC pandering to leftards.
So what are going to do?
A few kicks to the groin $100 a shot will make these jokers take notice.
And for those of us who have actually been doing something other than spectating and beaking off for the last 4 years or longer … giving notice of the impending loss of that grass roots support will register.
I’m a Western separtist like Indiana and a few others here. I, like others, am wondering which direction this will lead. I will vote Conservative for one main reason: PMSH stands up for Israel. That alone gets my vote. As far as carbon taxes or whatever they decide to call it…wait and see I guess. Ultimately I want to West to leave, but until then…
Indie: Well, do we have any choice in this? I can only ride this pony one more time. by then the WAP might rule the roost out here, instead of those hopeless red tories or the rump NDP and Libs in Alberta.
I just ask why conservatives have to say they’re sorry all the time and make up excuses for conservative values. Why anyone would pay more for something that they could get for a better price, is beyond me. Look at the map. The Conservative base is mostly western. we seem to be spending a lot of time, effort and political capital to suck a few voters from central Canada. Their part of the map should read: “here be moaners”. Heh!
I had these arguments with my own family in Ontario. We’ve ceased speaking to each other. They kept asking why I didn’t have a government job or belong to a union. I work my own business in the Patch, they don’t understand how I think. They all went to a job. I am my own job. I celebrate sucess, I don’t try to drag it down.
“Mr. Prentice’s speech was very much focused on the oilsands and the need for industry and the Alberta government to work with Ottawa to improve Canada’s environmental reputation. The province and sector also must help Ottawa meet the country’s revised environmental goals, which are to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 17% below 2005 levels – the same target adopted by the Obama administration.”
Great! We finally have a Conservative party with a tiny bit of Western Canadian infuence, and now the Cons are taking Alberta to task, (Sask by association).
None of them have no shame when it come to sucking up to Quebec and Ontario for votes.
I’m so effen sick of it all.
OMMAG: I sent an email to the “three” today, as per the original topic. They don’t care and I’ll bet that email was dumped the moment it arrived.
Prentice’s office sent a note saying my email was forwarded to Environment Canada. From there i expect it will end up at the CRA and i can expect an audit sometime in June!
Rednik:
Alberta and Ottawa are working TOGETHER on this issue.
Open your mind.
Interesting comments, but for those that want PMSH to go -hard- right, remember, he is in a minority parliament, so, as others have said, he must be a PuppetMaster, and play an elaborate game of chess, that, even his own advocates may not totally understand. On the surface, the stance on AGW appears strange. But, you have to consider that most Canadians have been brainwashed by the MSM’s endless propaganda stream, as well as Laydown, Dr Fruitfly, young wide eyed kids, Lizard May, etc.
If PMSH came out tomorrow and excoriated the AGW issue, he would be:
a) A polar bear enemy
b) An evil tree hating corporate shill
c) A Gaia hating CO2 emitting dinosaur
d) A puppy killer
e) or, all of the above
The Fiberals/NDP and their attack dogs would have a field day, and you could say goodbye to PC in power fro decades.
Better to give the left lip service to their pet projects. They seem to buy into it quite willingly. Better than having the left attack dogs get their way with your typical dumb Canadian.
when are people going to admit that the oilsands are in fact a cleanup of the largest oilspill in history. when Gaia cleaned off the caprock of the macmurray sands all hell broke loose, it is going to take us centuries to clean up the damage.
what say ye Dr. Suzuki?
I, too sent an e-mail to Prentice’s office. Got the response that it was “forwarded” to Environment Canada or more likely, into “file 13”.
They could care less about our opinions.
Western separation can’t come soon enough, IMHO. I’m tired of Western Conservative prosperity buying Eastern Liberal votes.
We’ve come a long way in the last 4 years. True, in some respects we haven’t made as much progress as hoped, but we certainly are a lot better off than had we taken a different direction 4 years ago or 16 months ago.
Regarding Copenhagen, it’s precisely because nobody else is signing that Canada signed. No international commitment but a good international image. In Canada this will be gold for the Conservatives. Nothing to deflate the hot air balloon of the huff and puff troika of the left like the Conservatives subverting their religious creed. The leaders of the left know that global warming is past its best before date, but if Harper hadn’t taken it away from them, they would have sold it to enough voters to change the outcome of an election in April. If there are going to be CO2 cuts, I believe the pain will be applied to Ontario’s nuts.
If you’re disappointed in the Conservatives, look at the Liberals. They’ve achieved nothing in the last 4 years (except to stir up discontent in the Conservative base). Don’t be expecting Harper to implement all the specifics (eg CWB) that are your priorities. I’m glad Harper is not following the Liberal tradition of being the PM for those who donated to his party, but is being PM for all of Canada. It sucks to have the CWB pay me half the Montana elevator price for durum, but according to the plebiscites and CWB elections this isn’t a big issue with a lot of farmers. Maybe we could use the CWB’s clout to get legislation that would enable unit trains to offload directly to ships. That would be money in every farmer’s pocket.
In spite of the tough economy, especially in Ontario, there is optimism for a Conservative majority. There could be a few seats in Newfoundland and more of the immigrant vote. The extreme pettiness of the opposition is encouraging too. If all they can come up with is prorogue or other low value issues, it means they don’t have much ammo. Unfortunately they do have the media so they sound more formidable than they are.
WalterF
You magnificent bastard!
“Don’t be expecting Harper to implement all the specifics (eg CWB) that are your priorities.”
This is the kind of straw man argument typically made by Harper’s cheer leaders. I don’t expect Harper to implement all my priorities. I would appreciate it if he would pick just one of them for implementation. As it stands, he has delivered on none. I don’t think I can be accused of being petulant or politically greedy for asking for delivery on at least one item that is of interest to the conservative base.
> We’ve come a long way in the last 4 years
Yeah, we are $60,000,000,000 short now, our incandescent light bulbs are banned, registry is still in place, terrorists are not deported and accountability is government’s beotch
Dennis, Harper has made progress on a number of issues, such as the gun registry. I spend a fair bit of time reading CBC, Globe and Mail and a few others. Their anti-conservative bias is appalling. Harper can’t do much but tack back and forth to make progress into this headwind.
As I see it, it’s still going to be a couple years of toughing it out and not making any big mistakes nationally. Hopefully the Wildrose in Alberta will soon be in a position to play the role of the “tough cop.” The economic momentum is going to Alberta. The global warming balloon is being deflated. But leftists / marxists will take any issue they can to raise discontent and destabilize a government. They’ve got the media on their side; they have an easy time of it. If we can head in the right direction, the hearts and minds of Canadians will eventually follow, especially as the country’s economy continues to concentrate in Alberta.
In short, I agree with you, but don’t see any other way of fixing things up for the long term.
Good God, some of you people are terminally thick. Prentice came out with his 17 per cent because Jan 31 was the filing date by the Copenhagen agreement for countries to indicate what their targeted reductions were going to be. Given how thoroughly Canada got slammed by Engos and Eurotrash at Copenhagen, there’s no way the feds were going to allow Canada to be caught offside on this one.
What does the Copenhagen agreement bind us too? Nothing. It’s a useful way of ragging the puck, which is just what’s needed here. None of the opposition parties have been allowed the least room to make a serious issue of Canada failing its international commitments; nor more to the point has the US. Protectionism is a very real and growing threat, and there’s all too many congressmen, come on down, Max Baucus, who would be happy to use Canada defaulting on international commitments as an excuse to pound our exports. That means YOUR oil and gas, western Canadians.
Do none of you here understand how international negotiations are conducted? It’s a huge agglomeration of lying, cheating, hidden motives, treachery (yesterday’s friends are today’s enemies), in which the point of the process is to defend your national interest. So tell me, all you foreign affairs geniuses, is there one single restriction on Canada’s industries or citizens today that did not exist even one month ago?
None? Really? Sounds like damn clever issue management to me.
GIVING CREDIBILITY TO climatchicks is mistake, this is what you don’t get.
Aaron, what you don’t get is that none of this has anything to do with ‘climatchicks’. This is and always has been about TRADE sanctions.
I recently met a person from the US with American media ties who married a Canadian and now lives up here. He stated that Western Canada will not get the balance of power until it has its own media outlet. Based on other comments above, it may be time to lobby the CRTC for Fox News in Canada and have it based in Western Canada. Can someone refresh my memory as to the reasons the CRTC has given in the past to refuse a licence to Fox.
Catbird, I dug this up in Wikipedia:
“In 2003, the CRTC rejected a Canadian Cable Telecommunications Association (CCTA) application to bring Fox News to Canada because Fox News U.S. and Global Television were planning to create Fox News Canada, a combination of U.S. and Canadian news. However in 2004, after a Fox U.S. executive said there were no plans to create the combined channel, the CRTC approved an application to bring Fox News to Canada.”
I think the political climate for such a move would be better now. Even the threat of competition would improve coverage by the current cabal.