“In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity,” Sarkozy said to extended applause at the Chateau of Versailles, southwest of Paris.
“The burqa is not a religious sign, it’s a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement — I want to say it solemnly,” he said. “It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic.”
Well, good luck with that.
In the first presidential address in 136 years to a joint session of France’s two houses of parliament, Sarkozy laid out his support for a ban even before the panel has been approved—braving critics who fear the issue is a marginal one and could stigmatize Muslims in France.
“In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity,” Sarkozy said to extended applause in a speech at the Chateau of Versailles southwest of Paris.
“The burqa is not a religious sign, it’s a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement—I want to say it solemnly,” he said. “It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic.”
All I have to say is: Bravely spoken Mr. Sarkosy.
Maybe he’s realizing that France should start confronting head on this major issue before it’s too late.
Maybe the Iranian situation is embolding him to do it now.
Anyway, maybe Obama would like to trade places with Sarkozy because now the US looks whimpier than gay France.
Good luck indeed. The French will be able to control burqa wearing about as well as they control nightly car-b-ques.
Surely it’s more than just the costume that repulses – why the baby steps to deal with what’s truly at the root of the problem?
Btw, I’m heartened by the responses at CTV, most in favour of Sarkozy’s move. But where’s Jennifer Lynch when all these proles are speaking their minds?
So, we kind of have to decide. Whether we continue to offer freedom of religion to the theory that believes in chopping off our heads if we refuse conversion, subjugation and jizya, or take it for what it is: militant socio-political doctrine with many components.
Those components include religion, government, law, economy, education, marriage, nutrition – all aspects of life.
For as long as it is considered religion, all hope is lost. Religion cannot be debated adequately in the West, as it blindly offers equal protection to all religions, even to those that it has not been exposed to when Western society was devised and designed. It was unheard of back then that an entity immune to assimilation could permeate our society and turn the tables on us.
Sticking to the old rules in the new circumstances is stupid, bordering on insanity. It would be the same as if we danced with drums around a cancer patient hoping for recovery instead of operating.
How much longer does our world need to decline in quality of life until we shall wake up and start doing something? Worst of all, I meat many who consider themselves conservatives, but who did not hesitate to smear me, bash me and silence me for being a racist bigot when I expressed the ideas above. They said that I just can’t leave the ROP alone. Actually, it’s the other way around: the ROP can’t, not supposed to, leave us alone. Read the holy books, it’s all there.
I was going to mention my Jewish friend who compares seeing someone in a burqua to seeing someone walking down the street wearing a Nazi uniform…
but then again, the French never had much of a problem with that…
The French put up with punks burning their CARS you guys, they’re going to make a fuss over women wearing tents in public?
Pfft. Let them eat cake.
The first small signs of pushback at the elite’s level? It is possible, though I doubt it. The simplest explanation, is that he saw the results of European election, and decided this is an issue that could get him more votes than it would lose.
This is probably irrelevant. The culture that praises tolerance of the intolerable must be changed, and that kind of change is probably going to have to be forced on our governing elites.
The reason Islam and Islamism is expanding in Europe is because their followers are being maintained by the European Welfare States.
Muslims are leaving the Middle East Islamic states because those states, as noted, have failed to enable a decent economic lifestyle for their populations. So..they’ve left for Europe which has made two errors:
1) it has kept them, on welfare; this has encouraged them to settle in self-sustaining ghettores; and
2) it has been unable to absorb them into their own economy. This is partly due to bias and partly due to the weak European economy.
So, you have an increasing Islam population in Euroope who are not part of the productive economy but a drain on the economy.
Europe’s multiculturalism has prevented them from rejecting this set-up. But now, Europe is slowly wakening..and starting to fight back.
Oh – and Islam in Europe is, because it is detached from an economy, because it is a ‘kept’ society and not integrated…is open to radicalizationo.
BUT – in the Middle East, democratic change is on its way.
Islam, in its socio-economic-political nature is opposed to progress. Opposed to the individual as an active agent in the economy. Opposed to the use of reason. Opposed to science. Opposed to progress. On its own, it cannot function in an industrial economy.
The West had to enable oil production in the ME, because Islam had, and has, no capacity to develop technology.
But things are changing in the ME. The people want an active part in the economy. They no longer want to be anti-individual, anti-reason. They want to act as individuals who can think. Their placards in Iran stated this agenda very clearly, with their statements of “I want my vote to count”.
So, Islam is going to change, first, in the ME, as the repressive authoritarianism that is Islam as a political system, is rejected.
The West HAS to reject multiculturalism and cultural relativism and its resultant ghettoization of isolate populations. It has to integrate the population, economically and intellectually.
That means insisting that men and women are equal; that the rule of law is supreme, that democracy is the political method..etc.
Sarkozy’s statement will be wholeheartedly backed by Judy Rebic and gang. And Canadian Media will give it extensive coverage.
Cavern below. Very cold temperature. H2O in solid state. Phenomena to come.
If the burka were ever to become illegal the Muslimettes would not be allowed to go out in public. They’d just stay indoors making more Muslimittes.
Does this mean there will eventually be a Christian pavilion at the Muslim run Folkfest.
ET, if only you knew how desperately wrong you are about ME! Read the damn holy books. Your posting shows that you have not read them.
I read a comment that democracy, and reform in Iran, would lead to fewer people emigrating. It implied that our support of the protestors would somehow ease the weight of muslim immigration. I think that is the most blatant example of wishful thinking I’ve ever heard.
Muslims are moving here for economic gain. There are no welfare states in the middle east. Their economies are in tatters, and getting worse with falling demand for oil. Most of the wealth has been squandered by a handful of families. The average Arab is just as poor as he was in the 17th century. (So is the average Chinese, for that matter). Our system is the only one that makes it possible for anyone to become comfortably wealthy, and people with no upbringing to show the way are not about to wait a generation to get there.
Europeans, and Asians came here with the knowledge that they’d never be more than a stepping stone for their children. They understood that they’d be persecuted, cheated, and worked to death, just so their kids could have a life they never had. My ancestors did it, and I did it again when I moved to Alberta. Muslims have been taught, from birth, to take what they want by any means. The clashes we’ve been seeing for the last 30 years are proof of that.
not stirred, it means they’ll have to get white people to go pick up their welfare checks for them. For a small fee, no doubt.
Well, until France ends up like California, and the welfare dries up. Then they’ll have to cut the cr@p and get jobs like everybody else.
Um… true story…
The other day I was at the drugstore, and got into line for my purchase, and lo and behold there was this Muslim dude purchasing feminine hygiene products for his wife, who was wearing a black burkha.
Apparently he won’t let her buy her own ladies’ monthly stuff, or anything, for that matter. She’s obviously forbidden to make business/financial transactions of any kind.
Since when does Islam trump her human rights/womens’ equality rights?
In Canada.
I didn’t make this up.
Oh, and I noticed that they were taking a cab. A cab driver who looked like he could well be a Muslim himself was waiting for them.
Just my own observation.
You know, this is the FIRST time I ever saw a woman in a burkha in Canada in my entire life. I know that if I had seen one before, I’d definitely have remembered.
Perhaps someone ought to advise the dude that the Taliban’s edicts don’t apply in Canada, and that what the Taliban says isn’t necessarily what’s in the Koran.
You know, I’m aware that some radical left-wing feminists have compared married women to persons with Stockholm Syndrome.
I wonder if those same feminists would say the same about women who “like wearing the burkha”?
It’s already too late for France.
Hey Nick …. It’s too late … hahahahahahah
……. comparable problems of integration ……
There’s a quote to remember .
Does this mean there will eventually be a Christian pavilion at the Muslim run Folkfest.
No, all kaffir (sp?) will be dead as allah has instructed.
I guess they could call their women “nuns” and rename burqas “habits” and the problem would go away.
The French junior minister for human rights says a ban on burqas would be okay as long as it was aimed at protecting those women who are forced to wear one.
Great idea, to have a show of hands. Because we all know that Muslim women around the world are always perfectly free to say, “Hey, it’s not like I wanna wear it, but ol’ Butch over there tells me I gotta…”
Aaron – which ‘damn holy books’? I’ve read the Christian, Judaic and Islamic. So, which ones are you talking about? And what do these books have to do with the demographic, economic and political infrastructure of industrialism? Hmmm?
dp – no, the average Chinese is far wealthier than in the 17th c. China is moving rapidly ahead within capitalism. Its GDP has, since 1978, grown 70 times bigger. That’s hardly comparable to an agricultural 17th c. Try again.
Muslims haven’t been taught to ‘take what they want’; they’ve been taught to be passive, to live within a group, and to expect a higher authority, of which they have no part, to look after them.
That’s a two-class society. They’ve never been socialized within a three class society, with a middle class responsible for their own well-being.
That is what has to change. It’s changing in the ME, and the West has to reject the Welfare System for immigrants.
“Does this mean there will eventually be a Christian pavilion at the Muslim[-]run Folkfest[?]” – stirred brain, ’nuff said.
No, for the same reason that there is only one Christian church in the entire Arabian Penninsula –> 1) convert, 2) pay the “jiziya” tax for the priviledge of remaining Christian, 3) die.
So says the Qu’ran, Hadith and Sira. “Takbir! Allahu Akhbar!”/sarc.
Aaron’s a troll, ET. I’d suspect him as a HRC employee trolling for “racists”, but we have been assured by Jennifer Lynch that “they don’t do that”.
Any more.
Really!
Anyway, Aaron’s switched sides more often lately than a bi-polar on crack. Fun to watch, maybe not good to feed.
Aaron is bang on about the cult of pieces.
Don’t kid yourself, ever muslim thats here is just waiting for the order to slit your throat, oh and mine. Do the world a favor don’t trust even 1 of them. I’ll have them take my head before I bow.
Great. I’m going to be in Paris in July.
I’ll have to send in a Car-beque report.
“ET, if only you knew how desperately wrong you are about ME! Read the damn holy books. Your posting shows that you have not read them.” Aaron,are you implying that the ‘holy books’ have the truth,and we all should abide by their wisdom? Are you saying the writngs of a thousand or more years ago are more relevant than reality? Explain yourself.
Encourage them towear the burqa. The ones I’ve seen that haven’t been wearing them are two-baggers, at best.
We don’t need any more ugly broads exposing themselves.
Aaron,
No one has to read any idiotic archaic text to see what is going on. Pay attention and you will lean something new. That violent joke book known as the Koran is same old same old.
Tim in the people’s republic of Vermin,
Nuns don’t wear Habits anymore. And nuns can go out in public without a man in a turban ready to kill anyone who looks at them. There is a huge difference, but like Aaron, you aren’t paying attention to reality.
Please don’t expect Islam to change. What may happen is some Muslims will not be as strict in their practice of Islam. At the same time some Muslims will become even more strict in their practice of Islam. Some Muslims will seek a more peaceful practice of Islam while others will seek a more militant practice. Some will adopt occidental practices and morality others will repudiate occidental practices and morality.
The real question is will we as a society have the moral fortitude to withstand the onslaught of Islamic ideas and ideals or will we capitulate to a more vigorous belief system than the one we ‘sort of’ hold.
Ah yes. The French solution: More government. More state management. More policy. More policing.
On the whole, more government means less freedom. That is why, as much as I applaud the principle of Sarkozy’s statements — the burqua is oppressive, I abhor the proposal to impose a ban.
If Sarkozy wants to keep Islam out of France then he must keep Muslims out of France. Does he dare tackle immigration reform?
Isn’t katsmeat just precious….nice kitty…nnniiccee kitty.
Syncro
“Pfft. Let them eat cake.”
Phantom, I understand you’re angry over this burqa thing but that’s no reason to take it out on cake!
(just joking)
Europe, in this case, France, is just realising now how a great influx of people whose values are nowhere identical to their own is really bad for them. Sarkozy is in the thick of this and is going to need more than strong words to stand up to ignorant masses who treat women like garbage.
Other points made, fantastic.
Nicholas Sarkozy wants to destroy the White race of peoples in France.
Don’t believe me?
Google search:
Sarkozy+Metissage
When I am posting from public computers I am trying to avoid words like ‘quran’ and ‘ahadith’. Your anger can be better used elsewhere.
Alons enfant de la patria…
Le jour de gloire est arrive….
Read the quran when optimism about anything happening in the Middle East overwhelms you. It’s not what you want to think it is! There is no good muslim or bad muslim from the unbeliever’s perspective – there is only Muslim and non-Muslim.
The good muslim from muslim perspective is the one who lives by quran and Mohammed is his role model. Any deviation from that is a bad muslim, again from muslim perspective.
M. Le President – S’il vous plait! You talk a great game but when the chips are down you folks generally throw down your rifles. If you want to be taken seriously how about standing up in a substancial way to those who force women to be subservient.
Your actions, mon cher President, speak much louder than your words.
Ha! Someone should tell Mr Sarkozy to read Mark Steyn.
Let’s be careful here; I was taught by women who wore habits that showed only their face. I did not see them as being repressed, I only saw them as someone to be obeyed! Of course, there was a difference, firstly they did so by choice, and they were, for the most part, virgins, or at the very least, widows who had taken an oath of celibacy. My understanding is that France has banned schoolgirls from wearing a scarf that only covers the hair; not just the burqa. This is wrong, there is nothing wrong with a show of sexual modesty, especially in these times. That is a religious choice. When I was a boy my mother donned a bandana or scarf or hat when entering the Church. Now few do, besides elegant elderly black women, who wear wonderfully elegant toppers, whereas we see more men forgetting to doff their baseball hats in the pews.
Larry
banning is the only way to take the “authority” away from the communities leaders (oppressers), so it is necessary to dictate to the “leaders”
By the way, my mother no longer covers her head on entering the Church, (brazen hussy!) but then, most women are slaves to fashion anyways.
[quote]So, Islam is going to change, first, in the ME, as the repressive authoritarianism that is Islam as a political system, is rejected.[/quote] ET
ET,
Religion is a tough nut to crack… I don’t think we are that far from our own religious fanaticism. (The expectation of a divine intervention)
The First World War was IMO an example of insane religious expectation. The total lack of a Military strategy, from both sides, in the battle of the trenches. They simply thought that by delivering bodies to the slaughter that the other side would become de-humanized such that they would withdraw…Who was willing to make the greatest sacrifice to the Gods….Sick puppies!
Phillip G Shaw – sadly, the First World War really put the end to western civilization. No more surplus population to send to the colonies. Tragic loss of life on both sides for no real gains. The first offensive whereby more attackers died than offenders was the battle of messines ridge (1917). Appalling.
And then think how the aftermath of WWI set the plate for WWII and further loss of life.
I’m not sure if your point regarding dehumanization is correct. I think rather those planning the war became too far removed from the actual misery and loss of life to realize how futile it all was.
The First World War was commanded by imbeciles who didn’t understand the weapons they were using. Mr. Maxim changed history, and the European high command didn’t get the message until about 1925.
The French didn’t get the message until 1939. That’s because they’re French.
So its not surprising to see them getting invaded again and argue about if they should, you know, resist. Or something.
Cake is too good for them.
Habits weren’t outlawed by the state, and if they were commonly worn, al-la the children’s book Madeleine, I doubt Sarkozy would be calling for an end. I just don’t believe in using the oppressive power of the state to solve problems. Make a law against forcing women to wear them, I am with you.
“And then think how the aftermath of WWI set the plate for WWII and further loss of life”
Treaty of Versailles, the “peace to end all peace” We are still fighting over it. It was in that treaty that Iraq and Kuwait were separated by a line drawn by a British functionary.