The United Steel Workers join the AK-47 Of God* in yesterday’s “Wipe the state of Israel off the planet” march.
(Video shot by SDA regular Mississauga Matt)
That’s their promise.
Trudeaupia – more European by the day.
“I guess Bernie Farber of the Canadian Jewish Congress, and his best friend the Lying Jackal, and The Guy Who Is Suing Us, were all too busy chasing imaginary Nazis on the internet to be there.
I guess Truffles the Hobbit, the young Liberal Party hack who threatened to take me to court for being an anti-semite (because I joked that he was “too stupid to really be Jewish”) was too busy to be there.
But I was there
(Actually Cherniak has an excuse. He has all he can manage just holding the lid down at Hatelogs.)
Others notice “the curious silence of the CJC and the toilet warriors.”
ET has hit new lows, equivocating between the Islamic and Jewish belief systems. Something that would make any multiculturalist proud.
Given her rails against the ills of cultural equivalency in the past, is this just a simple case of cognitive dissonance? Or something else?
Funny, how we haven’t seen any Jewish counter protesters with placards and bullhorns saying “back to the ovens”, or, “Hitler didn’t do the job”, or telling children that “you’re gonna die.”
Funny, how we haven’t seen the burning of flags, the assault on mosques, businesses and cops by the Jews.
Funny, how the economy, democracy and freedom have not settled Muslims in the west into productive, civilized behaviour.
Funny, all that.
Islam is not equal to other religions. It’s not even worth wiping your feet on.
I say Toronto just doesn’t have enough uneducated third world savages.
Can you feel the diversity? So enriching.
Let’s give notice to people with functioning brains to pack up, leave Toronto, and then build a frickin’ wall around that hellhole to keep the undesirables out of the ROC. They want a Gaza, they can have one.
You can’t reason with people like that.
deezflowers -you have provided only you conclusion but no reasons for your conclusion.
dp – I happen to support the Iraq War and applaud its outcome. A population released from a tribal dictatorship, which has moved into a democratic state, with a constitution and rule of law, and a developing middle class economy – and which itself fights back against Islamic fascism in its midst. I think that’s a remarkable result, and applaud Bush, the Americans, and their allies, the British, Australians, Danes, and others, who helped to bring this about.
Honey Pot, I disagree with your assertion that “Islam is a violent oppressive barbaric death cult”. Most certainly, its fundamentalist followers are all of that, but so is all fundamentalism. I’ve pointed out the violence and rejection of Others that is found in the Halakha of the Judaic religion.
Orthodox Jews, who play an important political role in Israel, follow these rules ‘to the text’, while Conservative Jews, also an important political force, allow for ‘evolutionary interpretation’. My point is that exclusionary beliefs, opinions holding that Others are sub-human and must be killed, etc, are not exclusive to Islam.
I’ve outlined the causes of Islamic fascism, which is a particular version of Islamic fundamentalism, and won’t repeat it, but the results of the Iraq War will go a long way in reducing Islamic fascism in the ME. Unfortunately, I feel that the Israeli approach to Hamas in Gaza, will strengthen Islamic fascism – and particularly in the West. We’ve seen an example of that in yesterday’s demonstration in Toronto.
Are there any moderate Muslims? What a question; we’ve been over that before. Of course there are, and well-known ones include Salim Mansur who writes for the Toronto Sun, Farek Tatah, Irshad Manji, and a host of others who write in academic journals about how the Hadith and Qu’ran must be open to interpretation and evolution. Try the Muslims against Sharia blogsite.
As for the mechanical and reductionist split of ‘Hamas bad’ and ‘Israel good’, I’m sorry but I don’t subscribe to mechanical motions when dealing with living beings. That’s because all that is alive is a complex rather than mechanical system. Sure, you can do the binary on and off or good and bad with a light switch but when you are dealing with anything living, you have to acknowledge complexities.
Hamas is a fascist ideology and therefore, I reject it completely because it is fundamentalist. Israel is a political state (not an ideology) and can’t be defined, in itself, as either good or bad. You have to consider its policies – and with reference only to Gaza, I consider its decision to invade as a bad decision. Instead, my own view is that Israel, and other people as well, ought to separate the fundamentalist fascists…from the normal everyday people..and deal with them each differently.
By the way, Toronto in itself is neither good nor bad – just like Israel, so I don’t think that we can come to such conclusions. You’ll find demonstrations here rather than, say, in North Bay or Brantford, because as a capital city, Toronto has the consulates.
If you are a union member maybe a note to all unions reminding them of a basic fact. The employer pays you to do as they expect. The union takes my money so you work for me and you aren’t representing my interests by being involved in this. This is not “social justice” it is hate.
ET wrote:
So, in Gaza, you work directly with the Palestinians on the ground. Not Hamas who are the fundamentalists. Fundamentalists in any belief system are outside of debate, negotiation. You work with the average people to enable and assist their economy.
Wow. Talk about well-meaning but hopelessly naive.
You don’t ‘work with’ anyone BUT Hamas in Gaza, or you don’t work at all. Sorry, but you’ll now need to revisit and rethink your entire strategy from the ground up. Let us know when you have something realistic, okay?…
ET
What exactly is Toronto the capital of?
Syncro
Kathy and Matt…just amazing! I squirm when I am challenged in the comfort of my home! That took guts, and we should all be spurred on to get out and speak out.
Soccermom…you beat me to it on the BCF retort.
That being said our government needs to look closely at section 13, and how to deal with the real hate mongering that is recorded here.
Or was that section 13 still there just to keep those beaurocrats busy harassing Canadians?
Lynch doesn’t have the guts to go after these real hate mongering fools.
ET, I seldom engage in discussion with you because I respect your knowledge in so many areas. However, today I must say a few things:
There was no State of Palestine before 1948. There were a group of people that were asked to move from the area of Palestine. It’s that simple.Unfortunately that decree has conveniently fed the Islamist hatred for Jews.And the ‘common’ Palestinian voted for Hamas.That would make common Palestinians as you say ‘fundamentalist’ (a word used a bit to loosely in this context).They are mislead and driven by hate,no matter where they live, as evidenced in this video.
Wow and Double Wow!!!
First off, Matt a big thank you from Vancouver for filming this in hi-res and for editing it. Absolutely superb.
The insights gained from the captions was great too. In no particular order, here are my reflections:
– Clearly non-Jewish protesters posing as Jews
– The Che Guevera flags (do they even know a thing about what he actually did?)
– Multiple supporters screaming with glee about how Israel would be wiped off the map
– Any attempt at peaceful dialogue by the protesters was clamped down upon by the “organizers”
– The frenzied screaming of “Allah Akbar” such as we see in incensed mobs in Pakistan and other Muslim countries
– Were the formally printed signs made by the same people who wanted to recently overthrow our democratically elected government with The Coalition?
Free Speech is a great thing and should always be promoted. But given the right of free speech doesn’t guarantee that the speaker will utter anything remotely intelligent.
ET might I suggest you read up on the history of Islam, they had very brief periods in their history that they lived in peace amongst Christians and Jews. Those countries were Egypt, Spain, and Iran. I use to hold out hope that we could live in peace with Muslims in the West, the rallies across the globe have shown me I was foolish to believe the followers of a religion that straps bombs on their children could join our culture and we flourish in peace. I either bow before their violent hatefilled supremacy or become a victim of it. I don’t do victim, the police were negligent in their duty, they are obligated to arrest those that called for Genocide yet they stood and did nothing.
Never Again has begun again, instead of Germany uniting with a Radical Fanatical Muslim aka Yasser Arafat we have the socialists’ left in Canada united with radical terrorist supporters. Gawd those people repulse me.
When confronted with punks – deal with their cousins !!?? Not the punks ??
neo has a good link in ‘Shrinking Ass Kickers post’.
————–
neo – a very relevant link !!
[ We see this phenomenon writ large in Gaza, where the punks are organized into a terrorist militia called Hamas. It is unnecessary to consider their Islamist ideological credentials, only to witness their deeds. These are people who were under the impression that “society” — by analogy “the world community,” and the diplomatic draughtsmen of innumerable “roadmaps to peace” — had granted them permission to wing thousands of rockets gratuitously into Israel.]
Permission granted to punks – be punks, with immunity. Now WK’s fake obsession with punk bands makes sick sense.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/todays-paper/When+dealing+with+punks+there+time+liberal/1165503/story.html
“Kinsella- what a crock fulla crap.”
C’mon leave the guy alone. Don’t you know there was an AC DC concert in Toronto to go to. The Rogers Centre washrooms are target rich environments for hunting for swastikas.
SoccerMom said: “Blazing Cat Fur @ 1:15….And on your blog, you say you are now supporting Ignatieff….hmmmm….”
Yup SoccerMom, see also Plan-B on my site – Harper caved on Section 13 (1), he no longer merits my support, if I am going to have to give my support to an ideologically corrupt political party it way as well go to the masters of the game.
syncrodux – Toronto is the provincial capital of Ontario. It therefore houses consulates of quite a few nations, not embassies which are in the national capital of Ottawa.
Fred from BC – nope, I disagree with you. You work with the local people. I’m advocating a two-leveled approach. That is, Israel continues to provide the basic services to Gaza of water, electricity and gas. Yes, that gets to the Hamas followers as well, but the point is, you don’t include the non-Hamas with the Hamas. This means that the economy of Gaza can exist; the economy requires those basic energy and water supplies.
Then, you also open the borders to the economy; the Gaza economy is heavily based on exporting 100% of its fresh fruit/vegetables to Israel. If you end this – by cutting off electricity and water and closing the borders, then, you drive the people into the arms of Hamas.
The agenda has to be focused on: How do we reduce the inflation and power of Islamic fascism? There are two ways and they are not ‘either-or’ but MUST operate together. One is to fight back against militant fascist attacks. The other, hand in hand, is to enable democracy and a middle class economy in the fascist-domain areas. Both must go together. Not one OR the other. BOTH.
bluetech – there has never been a ‘state of Palestine’. Just as at one time there wasn’t a ‘state of Canada’ or a ‘state of the USA’.
No, the Palestinians were not ‘asked’ to leave, they were told to leave. And since many had been living there for centuries, on land, homes, farms under the Ottoman and then British rule, surely you don’t expect them to just ‘up and leave’ this property? Why?
No, you are quite wrong to claim that an electoral victory of one party means that ALL the electorate voted for that party. Surely you know that is not the case. I’m sure that, although the Conservative Party won the October election, there are a great many Canadians who would object to being defined as Being Conservative.
What we have to concern ourselves with is what are they telling their children? We could be dealing with this inbred hatred on a much larger scale as they procreate here and raise their numbers to out of control mobs in our streets.
First order of business had better be putting the unionistas out of business or at least IN THEIR PLACE which is not the foreign affairs of this country.
I just read Kathy Shaidle’s blog posting. She asks a very important question: Why were there not more Jewish people there to counter-protest?
I wonder what a poll would reveal:
1. They couldn’t be bothered.
2. They were afraid.
3. They think that protesting is pointless.
4. They are actually against Israel’s actions.
5. Other.
This is an important question that needs to be answered. I hope that Ezra Levant and other prominent Jewish Canadians address it.
ET
That’s a lot of word salad just to say you hate Jews (zionists) too. I’m tired of your twisted lies about Islam and Muslims. You think of yourself as some female academic who is free to make up history. Tell us again how Islam was developed to help the tribal Arabs defend there “agrarian” lands from the incursions of the Byzantines. I was laughing for days about that one. Sometimes you make sense, but you never do about Islam. Is it your sick Jew hate or is it ignorance?
It just shows how susceptible these group thinkers have become. They will eat up terrorist propaganda, ignore history and facts, just so they can protest against the evil man. Their perspective has been manipulated full circle to the point of absolute hypocrisy and idiocy.
Perhaps WK will write a new book now tilted “Web of Hate” Hmmm?
“… when I can live in Saudi Arabia as a Christian we’ll open our boarders to more Muslim Immigrants.”
Right on, Rose.
Anyone want to talk about “proportionality”? Well, that’s when Christians, Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, atheists, etc. are allowed freedom of speech and freedom of religion rights in Muslim countries.
When pigs fly, eh? If anyone talks to you about “proportionality” in the Hamas/Israeli conflict, point this out. We have to have our wits about us, because we are hearing the most inane arguments about this issue. We’ve got to stop accepting them, we’ve got to start, quite vociferously, speaking truth to lies.
There’s too much lying going on in the ranks of pro-Palestinian/Hamas groups and their sleazy accomplices in the MSM and the CHRCs. What’s the name of the “justifiable lies” Muslims are allowed to tell infidels? That’s going on big-time when it comes to this issue.
Thanks, Mississauga Matt, for the video and Me No Dhimmi for the suggestions for my logic-challenged parent. I’m not sure they’ll help, but you never know. I’ve more or less taken your advice and figure that subject will be off the radar screen when we get together. I hate having to self-censor like that, but sometimes there’s no other choice in this Deranged Dominion of ours.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=30a_1231680653
Perhaps this is why the Jewish people never showed up in TO. It’s British police running from the protesters there. I hope the only thing holding them back was discipline.
I noticed one poster at the USW rally was holding the sign “Stop the Holocaust Against the Palestinians”. If he was intelligent enough to assess the components of historic genocides he would have noticed that WWII European Jews, Armenians, Stalin’s kulaks and Ukranian famine victims, Pol Pot’s victims, Ruwandans, and Sudanese genocide victims all had one thing in common, they were unarmed groups whose males had no ability like the Palestinians to defend the group. What part of over-armed, militarily well-funded with the full support of their Arab neighbors does that union cretin and his lefty ilk not get about the Palestinians? They aren’t and never have been victims of Israeli aggression let alone “genocide”. No one in that sorry sewer in Gaza has clean hands.
And, Mark Steyn nails it, the utter moral corruption of self-loathing liberal Jews seen in the CJC, the media, lefty academia and Hollywood. I find them as loathsome as Hamas.
What I see in this video is the sad state of what Canada has become.
I fear that time spent in service to Canada, my Father RCNVR 1939-1945 and myself RCN/CAF 1963-1977 was a complete and total waste.
I look at the political leadership that has defined Canada from Def on are not worth the glass of water to generate enough urine to piss on them.
I think of where we are now, when even though he was caught with both hand in the till, up to his armpits, has a large shipping company that he calls Canadian but keeps off shore to avoid tax’s, was voted in as Pm. This is the same turkey that appointed a seperatist that was a French citizen to be our titular head of state.
We then had another French citizen running for king and he got more than 2, his and his wife’s. votes.
So we now have a PM who is either politically inept or just plain stupid. The government was handed to him on a silver platter and he still managed to loose. I don’t think you can blame all of this on the left leaning media. This guy would loose a one man rush to a to hole shit house.
We now have an American running for king and if the poles are to be believed the libs and the cons are equal.
I beleive that Canada has become a bunch of free lunch advocates and that it does not have the gonades to be a real country.
Canada died 28 June 2004. End.
robert w- in your ‘other’ I wonder if it’s because it doesn’t make sense to confront a fundamentalist. Since a fundamentalist of any ideology doesn’t operate by the use of reason then, what’s the point of confronting them? Just to yell and scream? The more sensible tactic is to simply let them yell and scream. And ignore them. After all, neither side is going to change their mind in the interaction.
A more serious question is the role of unions in political issues. This is something that I think needs to be addressed. I’m aware that members have previously taken a union to court because of that union’s engagement in political issues. I know that there is one case now
court case
and there have been others.
After all, unions are financially powerful because of those dues but I think they violate their mandate when they move into issues outside of the workplace. It violates the right of the individual employee as a citizen, to act on his own with regard to political decisions when a union of which he is a member acts ‘on his behalf’..and without his vote that they should do so.
In addition, union management calls out these union members to work on election campaigns, to work in these protests and so on. If you hesitate, you get into the black books of the union, and can expect retaliation in the workplace.
Why were the unions out in these demonstrations? For election purposes. Remember that Toronto has the highest Muslim population in Canada and these electoral ridings are contestable. The unions work for the Liberals – and thus, have a firm control on these ridings. So, what’s the demonstration about? It’s about votes in Canada. Not peace and security in Israel or Palestine.
…I’ve said this before; that means that in Gaza, Israel enables the greenhouse and furniture economy…
ET, you’ve said that a hundred times. What you don’t say is that the next largest export is the suicide bomber. That is a far greater detriment to Israel than any gains from furniture imports ever will be. Therefore it is in Israels’ best interests to keep the border closed.
Egypt shares a border with Gaza. It’s closed. As a matter of fact I believe they built a wall to keep the Palestinians out. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of rockets flying in that direction. I wonder why?
ET, you are obviously well read and well educated but you need to pull your overeducated, overprotected head out of your ass.
Forget the middle east for a minute and lets look closer to home.
Suppose Obama decides the best thing for the US economy is to throw out Nafta, the Auto Pact, and anything else that catches his fancy. The US is 80% of our export market. Would that destroy our economy? Absolutely. Does that give us a right to throw rockets across the border? Absolutely not.
Lets try another scenario:
One of the US politcal parties (let’s say the Republicans because they are always the bad guys in the movies) decides that alls that is wrong with America is Canada. Over the course of years this view catches of with more people even as the rhetoric gets shriller until the Republican leadership is calling for the destruction of Canada and the extermination of the Canadian people. Would the Canadian government be justified in closing the border and a massive military build-up including a nuclear deterrent? It would be a complete dereliction of duty if it didn’t.
Let’s try one more:
Canada forcibly expells Qubec from the Dominion. After years of constant border problems Canada closes its border with Quebec. The US does the same. Quebecs’ ability to export poutine is destroyed. Does Quebec then have the right to lob mortors into Ottawa? Does Canada have a right to respond? Does this need an answer?
Hamas is the govenment in Gaza. They continually fire rockets into Israel. This is an act of war. Israel is fully within their rights to invade. Hamas uses schools and hospitals for cover. This makes them valid targets. Any civilian casualties are the fault of Hamas.
Of all the countries in this world only one is expected to have an open border with a neighbour who’s sworn to its extermination.
Only one is expected to put up with endless rocket attacks.
Only one country is expected to support the economy of, and give foreign aid to, a neighbour sworn to its destruction.
Only one.
Why is that?
robert w – I think the reason why Jews don’t show up for these rallies is because it’s useless to go to a rally of fundamentalists, for they are immune to reason. The best way to deal with a fundamentalist is to ignore them. Otherwise, it’s just two ‘sides’ ranting and yelling at each other. No point.
The biggest concern is the role of the unions in these rallies – and other political issues. I think that the unions are in gross violation of their members’ rights when the union executive uses their dues to finance and assist political actions; and when they use the PR visibility of the union, to make public political statements. They have no right to remove the individual’s right to have and make political decisions on their own.
I know that there are court cases which challenge the right of the union to move into political activism. I’ll try to post a link again. I tried the a href tactic and failed. So, without the header which ticks off the filter, try this
http://www.journalofcommerce.com/article/id31510
I think that both union members and non-union members should protest to the government against any and all political activism of unions.
Fight fire with fire.
Let’s wipe Gaza off the map!
Posted by: penny at January 11, 2009 3:31 PM
Penny, you forgot the main thing these genocides had in common: dead bodies.
6 million Jews
7 million Ukrainians
3 million Cambodians
500 000 thousand Rwandans
For an advanced military working in a small area they seem pretty slow at racking up the numbers.
Even the lefts favourite dead hero Saddam managed a 100 000 thousand dead Kurds.
You’d think the sneaky jews could do at least that well.
I’m getting close to feeling enough is enough.
I’ve certainly had enough of certain Muslim parasites who have come to Canada, have enjoyed its multiple benefits, on the back of the rest of us, and then abuse our freedoms by behaving like a horde of barbarians. And who gets a free pass and state protection? The barbarians. Here. On our streets. In Canada. I’m not making this up.
I’m certainly in favour of free speech, which includes very offensive speech. However, it would seem to me that the incitement to murder and mayhem, directed at an identifiable group, which I heard in this video, would fall under Sections 318 and 319 of the Criminal Code:
Section 318: “Any person who promotes genocide is guilty of an indictable offence, and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years”.
“Section 319: Section 319(1): Public Incitement of Hatred
“The crime of ‘publicly inciting hatred’ has four main elements. To contravene the Code, a person must:
• communicate statements,
• in a public place,
• incite hatred against an identifiable group,
• in such a way that there will likely be a breach of the peace.
“Under section 319, ‘communicating’ includes communicating by telephone, broadcasting or other audible or visible means; a ‘public place’ is one to which the public has access by right or invitation, express or implied; and ‘statements’ means words (spoken, written or recorded), gestures, and signs or other visible representations.
“All the above elements must be proven for a court to find an accused guilty of either:
• an indictable offence, for which the punishment is imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
• an offence punishable on summary conviction.
“Section 319(2) defines the additional offence of communicating statements, other than in private conversation, that wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group . . . ”
I’m afraid that the kind of behaviour I saw in the video has continued to undermine what good will I might have had for Islam. Yes, there are many fine individual Muslims. However, they are, it seems, unable or unwilling to moderate the vile hatred and intimidation (and beyond: think physical and mental abuse and “honour” killings) of their very frightening fanatics.
On occasion, I’m in schools with large Muslim populations. Many of the girls wear hijab. Many of them are sullen, disrespectful, and believe, BECAUSE of their protected status—oh yes, they’re VERY aware of that—that they can treat teachers with an astonishing lack of respect, all the while, living off the bounty of this once Christian country. At one school, I had to hold my tongue as I passed the mothers of two of these entitled and arrogant children. I think they were mothers: they were pushing strollers, but were covered from head to toe in black bags, with only a slit for their eyes. I wanted to say, “Go back to where you come from, you alien troublemakers.” Any such freedom of expression on my part would have had me severely censured—and I’m a 6th generation Canadian, who’s paid in the vicinity of a $ MILLION in income tax alone, to support these sponging Mohammed Come Latelys. (Of course, what I’ve just said is altogether verboten in “polite”—read idiot—company.)
On the other hand, the Jews have lived quietly amongst us for generations, contributing (as Obama would say) way above their pay grade. The Jews have been and are productive, non parasitic citizens of this country, who deserve both our respect and our protection. There is no sub-group of Jewish Canadians who act out like these Islamic barbarians.
I am horrified and appalled by the complete inversion of values in a country that used to know the difference between good and evil. Yes, that’s what we’re talking about here. Re the Church, the late Father Richard John Neuhaus wrote, “Where orthodoxy is optional, orthodoxy will sooner or later be proscribed”. Re Canada: “Where good and evil are optional, the good will sooner or later be proscribed.”
Kyrie eleison.
Considering that the Charter and its insidious culture of entitlement and favouritism has cut off nearly all avenues of defense of the good and the true—concepts that the moral relativists who run this country (into the ground) refuse to acknowledge—it’s hard to know what conscientious citizens, who have not been hoodwinked by the Zeitgeist, should do. batb says, PRAY. Amen.
(Where we are reminds me of the scene in The Lord of the Rings when the Balrog has nearly caught up with the Fellowship. Gandalf is standing on the Bridge of Khazad-dûm, facing this hideous and evil monster: “YOU SHALL NOT PASS” he thunders. Then he turns to the others and says, “Fly, you fools!”
Unfortunately, as a society run by idiots at all levels, who obsequiously—and, IMO, disastrously—seek to “pat the beast”, we seem to be standing aside and saying, “You shall indeed pass—with our blessing and assistance” to the Islamic “Orcs” amongst us. By the time they take charge, with a ruthlessness the idiots refuse to imagine, it will be too late to fly.)
ET, you wrote, further up the thread, “I’m advocating a two-leveled approach. That is, Israel continues to provide the basic services to Gaza of water, electricity and gas.”
In other words, the nation that the democratically elected Gazan representatives vow to destroy is the nation that you say should provide these services, instead of, say, Egypt. Does that not strike you as odd?
Similarly, you have written more than a few times that Israel controls the water in the West Bank, yet the much larger (than Israel) country of Jordan is directly east of the Palestinian border, yet I’ve never seen you propose the idea that Jordan must provide services to the west bank. Why not? Why do you accuse Israel of cruelly witholding services, but not Jordan and Egypt?
I find that curious. The River Jordan roughly defines the border between Jordan and the Palestinian territories (excepting Gaza). Why does your solution entail water being delivered from the downhill (ocean) side, i.e. Israel?
Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan have water, electricity and gas, ET. Why do you insist that the responsibility for providing these services should be borne by the one nation in the neighbourhood that the Palestinians and their elected representatives have vowed to destroy? Why do your proposed solutions never seem to incorporate the notion that these services should be provided by the Palestinians’ Arab neighbours?
Re Iggy, maz 2 posted, “Was Iggy raised by a weak father?”
I don’t know the answer to that, but I knew Iggy’s father–not well, but I knew him. Like Iggy, his father was a very accomplished, worldly person. Unlike Iggy, he appeared to be an unassuming, kind, courtly gentleman–at least every time I saw him. His “politesse” and kindness seemed to be altogether genuine, quite unlike Iggy, who seems to always be “on show”.
shannon – I disagree with your view.
Our modern technology can prevent a suicide bomber from entering, and if the people in the region have a vibrant economy, are a middle class and are empowered in a democracy then they won’t feel the need for suicide bombers. But to destroy the capacity of a population from living except by UN handouts – means that you are building up the desire for both suicide and suicide bombers.
Egypt doesn’t have an integrated economy with Gaza; Gaza had one with Israel. Furthermore, it is Israel that set up the hydro lines, gas lines, water lines into Gaza. These systems operate from Israel not from Egypt. So, if you cut off this basic energy infrastructure and the economy, what type of reaction do you expect? Furthermore, Egypt isn’t settling the West Bank.
Your US example is not analagous. For one thing, we are able to open up markets with other countries. I think that Canada’s laziness in making itself more globally competitive and instead relying on the US market has been a great error. But, the point is, we CAN develop other export markets. Gaza can’t; and remember, its energy and water comes from Israel. We aren’t reliant on the US for our basic infrastructure.
You are also ignoring that Hamas is Islamic fascism and is not the ‘people of Palestine’. We don’t have such an element here, either within the government or as a sect.
Your Republian example is equally a false analogy. First, it is the responsibility of any government to protect its people. On both sides of the border. Second, spurious actions are outside of debate. I’d want to know WHY the Republicans came to this decision.
It would also mean that Hamas, as the elected govt in Gaza, has the responsibility to protect its people from the Israeli act of destroying the economy. As you can see, such acts on both sides are ‘catch 22’s’. My answer is that Israel ought to ‘go around Hamas’ and deal with the Palestinian people directly and assist their economy.
Your example with Quebec – equally irrelevant. What your examples are missing, in all cases, is the reason for the behaviour. That, believe it or not, is vital. So, to simply state that Quebec’s economy weakens, without examining why the borders were closed in the first place – doesn’t deal with the problem and reduces the situation to only one thing – closing the borders. Without any reasons for so doing.
Hamas is indeed the government in Gaza. It is also a fundamentalist and a fascist Islamic sect. And Israel is also settling the major part of a proposed Palestinian state, the West Bank, rendering any future Palestinian state almost impossible. So, there are three factors to consider. All of them are part of the complex causality and all have to be dealt with. You only deal with one issue: closing the borders.
You don’t deal with the causes of Islamic fascism in the ME. You don’t deal with the causes of Islamic fascism moving into Gaza. There are three basic causes and you don’t deal with any of them. You just focus on the RESULTS of these three causes: rockets into Israel.
ET wrote, “Since a fundamentalist of any ideology doesn’t operate by the use of reason then, what’s the point of confronting them? Just to yell and scream? The more sensible tactic is to simply let them yell and scream. And ignore them. After all, neither side is going to change their mind in the interaction.”
You’re kidding, right?
Shannow.. Missed a point. One has nuclear weapons and hasn’t used them.
This is moving so fast into viciousness, it has to be coordinated world wide. How? Iran & Syria, with certain Saudi Arabia Princes. They have the money with agents to do this. Frankly I believe they started in the 80’s to infiltrate Western institutions when the plane hijackings where still just hostage situations as a distraction.
When we started to allow more of these “Religion Of Hate” folks in our Nations, the usual procedure of Islamic attack by colonization. Than when they build up to 2 % of a Muslim population ,critical mass is reached with the attendant violence, law fare, educational institutions & if possible the press. To force their Religion on all, with its horrid laws & scorn for Females. Persecution of the original inhabitants who invariably react to this violence like sheep to a wolf. They try to appease or think they can make deals. You can’t bargain with a demon. You only get the stink of hell on yourself, than killed for the presumption to a people who feel superior . Where their Religion admonishes them to kill all except those willing to be slaves.
Its like a Women giving birth, the closer to the child being born the quicker the labor pains.
The child the Jihadists are birthing will be a monster. How could it be anything else with a frenzied people with an even more insane god.
The CJC fall into the trap. Now comes the reconing.
If we don’t hold fast against therse barbarians we deserve ourt fate.
JMO
Good job Mississauga Matt and Kathy Shaidle.
By the way Matt, did you see your Mississauga-South-Brampton Liberal MP Navdeep Bains, in the crowd?
Just wondering.
EBD – the reason why I suggest that Israel provide the services to Gaza is because the operating infrastructure of pipes etc is there for such an action. Why should Egypt, which gets no taxation from Gaza or subsidies for it, expect its citizens to pay for the construction of pipes and grids to supply Gaza?
The same with the West Bank; the water comes from the aquifers and the river and is local (not from Israel), but is denied to the Palestinians except for household use, ie, not for irrigation. Why should Jordan, which doesn’t have any title to or revenues from the West Bank, expect its citizens to pay for the water and energy infrastructure of the Palestinians in the West Bank?
lookout, in my view, the isolationist behaviour that you describe is due to our disastrous multicultural policy which sets up immigrant groups as not allowed to, not supposed to..integrate with any other immigrant groups and with Canadians. They are kept intact and used as voting blocs.
I think that the Australian immigration requirement of 2007 is what we should do, where we insist that all immigrant AND visa entrants must accept Canadian values.
On a brief note – it’s astonishing that the women wearing the full veil don’t realize that this type of garment developed as a logical protection against desert heat and above all, the everblowing dust and desert insects. To then move it into a ‘moral dress code’ was an irrational secondary step.
But, our multiculturalism, which isolates groups and prevents their collaboration and integration, is a disaster.
In the quote of ET that I just cited, I notice that she made an invalid equivalency, “After all, neither side is going to change their mind in the interaction.”
ET, Hamas and its Canadian supporters, whom we saw ranting, raving, and inciting hatred and death, here, in Canada, on our streets, I’m not making this up, are, indeed, FANATICS.
Israel and those of us who support its right to both exist and to protect itself from attack, ARE NOT.
Please take this into account.
ET, I really respect most of what you post here. But not on this and similar threads. That you would cite a moral equivalency, where there is none, is, IMO, reprehensible. The Nazis were fanatics. You think ” [t]he more sensible tactic [was] to simply let them yell and scream. And ignore them”?
Like the Nazis in the ’30s, the Islamic dark is rising over all of civilization. Ignore this EVIL? I think not.
“Stick to topics you know something about.”
Unlike this pissy little bitch, I actually belonged to the USWA when I worked at Stelco. Members want their leaders to work for them in the workplace. They rarely agree with the lefty opinions of their so-called leaders who have no mandate to elevate themselves to this soapbox. The use this as a method of gaining the political power which they would otherwise never achieve in a democratic society.
ET
I think you belong out on the street with the other Jew hating Jackals.
Would you care to argue my assertion or do you prefer to babble about furniture and detergent and it’s free flow?
lookout – I think you are ignoring my ‘theories’. I’m saying that one ignores rallies, particularly if one side IS a fanatic ideology, because in that case, neither side, the irrational or the rational is going to change. Or interact with each other; they are just going to confront. OK?
I’m NOT saying to ignore Islamic fascism! I’ve never said that! I’ve said that we have to confront Islamic fascism, both militarily and politically. That’s precisely why I supported the Iraq War, and Afghanistan, because both these actions were direct attacks on Islamic fascism. I support freeing a people from fascism and enabling them to develop a democracy and a middle class economy – both of which mitigate against fascism.
It’s also why I support anti-relativism; and why I reject multiculturalism and support Australia’s insistence on all newcomers agreeing to support the EXISTENT Australian basic culture. That’s part of the ideological fight against fascism. It’s also why I support promoting, helping, assisting in all ways, the voice of moderate Muslims.
It’s also why I support any and all actions of countries to reject multicultural relativism, to insist on the right to evaluate beliefs and behaviours and to conclude that the democratic and rational moral values we have developed – are the ones that must remain in place.
I certainly reject and have always rejected Islamic fascism, and have explained how, in my view, it developed, and how, where and what we must do to combat it.
As for Israel, I’ve always supported its existence. I don’t support any ‘right to exist’ of any country for I don’t believe that a nation, which is a political entity, has any ‘right to exist’ – for that makes such a reality almost a metaphysical, an essentialist force.
Nations are political constructs; we humans make them. There is no ‘right to exist or even, not to exist’. I support Israel because the international community decided, for whatever reasons (and not all of these reasons were moral) decided that it would exist. Therefore, it exists and I see no reason why it should not continue to do so. I also support a Palestinian nation and see it as a problem that it hasn’t come into existence.
“Honey Pot, I disagree with your assertion that “Islam is a violent oppressive barbaric death cult”. Most certainly, its fundamentalist followers are all of that, but so is all fundamentalism.” – ET
Equivalency and ignorance, again. ET has no idea what the ideology is about. Neither does she know what is in the Quran, Hadiths and Sira, with special regard to the actions and sayings of Mohammad. Neither does she hear or read what Muslim political and religious leaders, directly quoting the Quran and Hadths, are saying.
Such assertions as the above, without a modicum of evidence – in her own words – makes her a cloud dweller.
“My point is that exclusionary beliefs, opinions holding that Others are sub-human and must be killed, etc, are not exclusive to Islam.” – ET
More bald ignorance. The difference is that violence in the OT was limited to a time and a place. Violence in the Quran is until the whole world is for Allah. And faithful Muslims are acting on it, daily. As they are commanded.
She continues to pompously lecture, rather than debate:
“Are there any moderate Muslims? What a question; we’ve been over that before.”
Once again, ignorance. It is only recently ET visited Muslims against Sharia, despite the fact many of us have provided her with this information and a lot more over the last couple of years. However, most reforming Muslims are considered apostate by the Islamic texts, the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, most of the religious leaders and scholars and the Ummah itself. Hirsi, is admittedly an apostate.
Furthermore, the term ‘moderate’ should give one pause to think, rather than pause in relief. Moderate versus what, exactly? Is the ideology moderate? Was Mohammad moderate?
What of the ‘moderate’ Muslims who immigrate to the west and their children become violent fanatics, as we’ve seen over and over?
What is it about Islam that inspires, no, incites so much violence against all non-Muslims and even Muslims and has done so, with hardly a time out, for 1400 years?
ulianov, “Political activity, etc. is done with the union members [sic] approval [sic]. If the majority of union members are against a uniions [sic, sic] political activity, they should attend their union meetings and vote against it.”
Utter piffle.
Union pooh-bahs have all kinds of time to meet and plot ridiculous, non work related policies, while pulling down their huge salaries. Meanwhile, their members are toiling in the trenches, so busy and tied down by their very taxing jobs, they usually don’t have time to even read all the left-wing idiocy their overlords are up to, let alone get out to meetings.
And, let’s say, a member should go and question union orthodoxy, there are myriad ways for the powerful union insiders to put up roadblocks and deliver retribution.
I know: I tried it.
Wait ET! I forgive you everything ! “burkas are to keep out sandstorms” HA HA HA HA HA Ha Ha! You have no malice, your just an idiot and a barely useful one. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
ET. What are Canadian values? I’m almost afraid of the answer
Mr Salt nailed that one. Every union person I’ve been associated with, past and present, have wanted the union to speak on their behalf about workplace items and generally feel union bosses should STFU about political matters. Rather similar to what parents want their children’s teachers to do: Teach, not preach.
ulianov – political activity is NOT done with their membership’s approval. As we’ve seen, Sid Ryan announced his Motion to deny freedom of speech to any and all academics from Israel BEFORE he even took this motion to a vote. Yet, he announced it, as president of Ontario CUPE, and publicized it.
Same thing with other political activity. Unions don’t put to a vote their having their members work for politicians who are running for election. Yet, they call up these members and insist that they go out canvassing, dropping off leaflets, fundraising and so on.
This Hamas/leftist rally in Toronto yesterday, coupled with CUPE, was done for political purposes. CUPE was helping the Liberal politicians in various Toronto ridings – the ridings which are heavily populated with Muslims.
Did they take this rally to a membership vote? You can bet they didn’t.
Unions have no right to engage in political activism. That denies the right of the individual union members from such political actions, because the voice of the collective (eg the Union) is heard far more than the voice of the individual. LOTS of union members are furious with Ryan for his anti-Israel action re the professors, but HE gets heard by the public. They don’t.
Try again.
I share ET’s pos on this as well. We are all well aware of the the radical Islam fundamentalism here are some of the radical fundamentalism from the other side that would resemble that of Hitlers SS.
Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel
by Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinky
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/JewishFundimentalismIsrael.html
ET
I gather you shed the light here of you academic career of the last quarter century. The very overlap when academia was poisoned with socialist tardness. And now you offer your wisdom to us ET? No thank you.
ET, Of course you disagree with me. I could have written your answer before you did.
Gaza doesn’t have an integrated infrastructure with Egypt? Build one. Why won’t that happen? Because the Palistinians are poison and the Egyptians know it. So do the Jordanians. Let the Jews deal with them.
We could rebuild our economy. Not quickly, and not with a world-wide economic slump. For your information, Canada has been trying for years to build a market in China for our lumber. Fifty houses will be built of wood in China this year. If you can build a market that easily it would be done already.
Why do the Republicans hate us?
Why did we close the Quebec border?
Use your imagination. There are lots of examples in history for things going badly between states. Find one and insert as necessary. The point is there is a threat or an attack, what do you do about it?
If someone pulls a knife on me, my main concern is making sure it ends up in his chest, not mine. You I gather would react differently?
“People of Palestine” Sorry, after sixty years of tender UN care, Hamas IS the people of Palistine. If Hamas had any interest in building a country, Israel wouldn’t have closed the border.
Get real. The reason for Islamic fascism is the damned jews refuse to die.